So has anyone called him a fraud yet?
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
Says a lot about Barca's dependence on him tbf, if he had a bad game, you can bet that Barca's going to lose
Personally believe Ronaldo is lazier, at least with Messi he gets involved/creates attacks.
When you're 3 nil down with Draxler & Di Maria scoring you knew SHTF already. Cherry on the top with Cavani scored in CL knock out stage and it's pretty much no return.
They're out of the Champions League.
Havnt claimed they will go through but they have it in them to make a tie of it...
So what you are saying is that if Messi has an off day his team get put out. That's a damning statement in terms of his team mates but also highlights just how important Messi is to Barcelona - priceless.
The reason there is a bigger gulf between the top teams and the rest in Spain compared to England is because the top teams in Spain have been a class above the the top teams in England. Even then this season Chelsea have a similar point-to-game average as Real Madrid and a better one than Barcelona. And their 1-1 draw with 12th place Burnley is hardly a uniquely English phenomenon. So far this season, Barcelona have lost 4-3 to 10th place Celta Vigo, drawn 1-1 with 13th place Betis, lost 2-1 at home to 12th place Alaves and drawn 0-0 at home to 14th place Malaga.
One of the problems against PSG was that Messi dropped deep from time to time to get on the ball. But in doing so he never took responsibility for offering up some sort of defensive shape when he lost it. It's one thing losing the ball up top and not getting goal side, it's even more destructive doing it in the heart of the midfield. The second (iirc) goal was a case in point.
Not last 8 years, more like last 4
2009: winners
2010: played well vs Inter generally but couldn't score past the best defensive performance I've ever seen
2011: winners
2012: creative but unable to finish anything, and missed a pen (vs Chelsea)
2013: terrible performance vs Bayern, whole team is invisible (in the previous round he dug them out of a 2-0 hole vs Milan single-handedly)
2014: terrible performance vs Atleti, whole team is invisible
2015: winners
2016: terrible performance vs Atleti, whole team is invisible
2017: probably worst performance of his life vs PSG
The times when Barca got KOd with zero hope and utter domination were after Pep left, and the team becamse more reliant on individuals. No surprise Messi = team after that.
He was injured against bayern in 2013, and that version of barcelona was already a one-man team
Talking strictly off the ball, he seems to walk around a lot more than any other player ive seen. Something Ozil gets abused for, sadly the German doesn't have the match winning capabilities to mask that side of his game. I haven't seen him contribute to the shape of a team in about half a decade.
Nope, if Barca don't pitch, he wont be saving them or going out fighting. When Barca pitch, he is indeed priceless.
He's been doing this so often since Xavi left. One of the things that always happens is that when he does indeed drop into the midfield slot, the midfielder who usually plays there goes into his spot, then if he loses the ball he'll stand there. unfortunately not to many teams can get more pressure on him cause if they did, there would be a lot of joy from that situation.
07-08 I think he was good vs United
09-10 He was well closed by Mourinho's Inter
11-12 he was good vs Chelsea (he missed a penalty though)
13-14 he wasn't fit vs Bayern and didn't even play one game at least.
then he played regularly vs Atletico Madrid both times.
They're out of the Champions League.
As i was saying... never doubt Barcelona
Never doubt refereers helping them out for sure. I forgot to take that into account
It was 12-13 vs Bayern. He did miss the 2nd leg though.
I think the 1st three ties you mention, he was good, but not as influential as he could have been. Notably the Chelsea tie when he missed a pen.
He was poor vs Atleti in 2013-2014 and 2015-2016 imo.
Crazy that he didn't play very well. Considering the score line.
Big game performances from Messi have been rare for a while now. He was excellent against Bayern in 14/15 and I believe he scored a hattrick in the Bernabeu in 13/14 but that's pretty much it? Also 1/2 games against City where he was a few levels above everyone else but oke, still too few IMO.
Never doubt refereers helping them out for sure. I forgot to take that into account
Discrediting that comeback is crazy
You could argue last year's CDR final and the 2015 one as well(that special solo goal ofc).
He hasn't scored vs Real Madrid since his hat-trick at the Bernabeu too.
I didn't discredit the comeback. Just that the ref played a big part in it.Discrediting that comeback is crazy
PSG deserved everything they got in the end up coming out tonight with the heads up their arse inviting Barca on to them... No cojones to ho and finish the tie early
I don't deny that. I am fairly open minded about it, PSG deserved feck all. Barca got a helping hand from the referee.
Very very poor in both legs as was Suarez.
I feel that's an exaggeration. He's been subdued against Atléti in the CL twice (and they were consequently eliminated) and less individually effective against RM for a few years, agreed. But other than that he still comes up when needed constantly (scoring winners in the league against Atléti for 3 seasons straight, deciding Copa finals, etc.).
Today was possibly the first time since Iniesta at Stamford Bridge that someone else stepped up when Barça were down and out. RM have Ramos, Bale, Di María all having had big moments aside from the star player. Bayern have had the entire team come up big, when required. The past few years if Messi wasn't doing it for Barça, no-one really was... today Neymar brilliantly took responsibility and got them through.
He played badly, but he did have one crucial quality moment: the pass for Suarez's dive was spot on.
Well you also have to say that Messi was surrounded by lots of players in both legs and they didn't let him play.
Even so, he generated the Penalty with a great pass to Suarez, and he also made a great run which generated the foul that Neymar sent in.
Even so, he generated the Penalty with a great pass to Suarez, and he also made a great run which generated the foul that Neymar sent in.
So their two best players were poor but they still smashed PSG 6-1. Not bad
Poor, I Wonder what you guys do when watching match - overlooking how Leo was marked by multiple players throughout the match has everything to do with how directly he was unable to influence the match. Indirectly however, opened it up for Neymar who delivered
Spot on. Messi is the most marked player I have seen since Ronaldo de Lima in Serie A.
He was covered by at least 3 players and that opened up spaces for everyone else. Neymar was getting a lot of one vs ones because of this.
And you could see it instantly, PSG players swarmed Messi whenever he got on the ball - it was very effective, except this time Neymar was able to exploit the few opportunities he had to the fullest. Neymar was MOTM but that had a lot to do with Messi too
Yep, as clear as day, Matuidi was sent to shadow him in both legs, with either Rabiot or Verratti not that far behind. And I agree with what @Skorenzy said. More often than not, especially in the big matches, when Messi was nullified, you guys ended up eliminated because no one else stepped up.
Neymar, and the space which double marking Messi afforded him, really stepped up yesterday. He was left isolated (1 on 1) with Meunier way too often, from a PSG perspective. And it ended up being decisive in the match.
Even a well below par Messi still ended up with a match winning contribution. I thought Suarez was ridiculously poor though.
Agree. I think Suarez simply never really got much in the way of touches more than being poor, I think it was his poor attempts at looking to con the ref into freekicks in dangerous areas. A true striker like him is less able to create space when there is a deep block like the one PSG put up so I think it's more a consequence of the defense he faced - especially when you consider how poor Barcelona typically are from wide positions. So, again, for me Emery took a Wise approach
Imagine he was an unknown and this was the first youtube video you had watched of him. He's been doing this for 10 years.
Messi as a 5 year old, let that sink in
24 years later
24 years later
According to Barcelona's Mundo Deportivo, is asking barca for something in the region of £1.3M a week for his new contract
Playing against other 5 year olds and they look shit. I'm terrible and I could do that.
Certain people will only see what they want to see.
The bar he has set is so high that anything less than his customary perfect hat trick 5 assists and dribble the whole length of the pitch before exquisitely chipping the keeper is seen as a bad game
Barcelona are working in a weird (but wise imo) way while extending contracts, the team faced the situation of being unable to fit the wages this kind of players demand in their yearly wages cap respecting the club statutes regarding salary cap and % of the money that goes to wages
So, what Barcelona do is keep themselves in a position to offer our stars competitive wages (what they would earn in other top clubs) by paying them huge signing bonuses when they re-sign with us, and that amount gets deducted from the total the player would receive in his total contract amount, leaving room to breathe in our yearly wages.
Then, when the partners meet every year those bonuses have to be accounted and explained to them, and the reasoning is that it's easier to pay Messi, Neymar, Busquets or Suarez a 10/30/50M € amount, deducting it from their yearly salary and provisioning this amount as "money destined for potential transfers had they left the club" than being unable to rival other offers, sell them and start looking for another Neymar, pay for him and risk a potential bust that would set the club several millions behind what they would be with the current formula
Of course, this deal has a huge risk, if after paying 30M last summer to Neymar deductible from the rest of his contract he somehow ended up leaving this summer we basically would've gifted him those 30M as he's not obliged to pay them back, but the other options are having to cut wages on other positions (losing other players) or having to deal every year with teams offering Neymar an amount we can't match and risking him going free or at a discount with 1 year left in his contract.
So, the numbers around Messi's wages will be mental because 1) You have to pay him for what he is, the best player in the world and 2) If other players can get huge contracts after the club has to spend 70 or 90M in a transfer fee, you can look for some "spare change" in your pockets to be fair with a guy that got here for free and has done more than any other player. His signing bonus will be monumental and that will make his yearly wage absurdly high