there is a kind of hush all over this thread, tonight
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
your statement that "Nobody wants to talk about Messi's use of HGH, you'd rather shut it out and pretend it's not a factor. So little attention is paid to PED use in football." is as stupid as it gets
do you really think that Sir Alex, Mourinho, and all the coaches that had lost against messi wouldnt like to talk about it if it was a forbiden substance?
thats why i'm calling you what i call you because you know you are a lying cnut, and you call yourself "americano"
so stfu
Chill out my friend.
why? we couldnt talk about giggs affair with his sister in law, but this idiot can claim that messi is a dopey, even when everyone in the football world has accepted that as a non forbidden substance, why is it me who has to calm down, when americano is blatantly lying?
may i say that England won the 1966 world cup using drugs? even if i know that's a lie?
He thread banned me before during a similar discussion...
The insults I mean. There's no room for that here.
loved it
but there's room for him saying that messi is a dopey
in fact, saying that, he is insulting Sir Alex Ferguson and the entire Manchester United organization, because this genious found out something that non of the rest had
ok
Having a go at players is normal - insulting posters isn't. So lets cut it out.
Great post. Couldn't have said it better myself.
a go? calling messi a dopey is having a go?
ok, then i'm having a go at americano
for him is normal, because he is an idiot
Marcos is now threadbanned in case anyone is expecting a response to a previous post.
I'm just going to preserve these in quotes. Are you still a moderator on this forum?
Marcos had a point though, its just a lazy accusation from an uneducated casual football fan who happens to resent Messi and his success.
Rather than thread banning him thread ban those who lay the bait, that's what I was threatened with in the Ronaldo thread and it was for calling him out on being a self centred goal poacher, nothing as severe as accusing him of cheating.
Rather than thread banning him thread ban those who lay the bait, that's what I was threatened with in the Ronaldo thread and it was for calling him out on being a self centred goal poacher, nothing as severe as accusing him of cheating.
Messi took HGH treatments as a child because he had a growth hormone deficiency.
I've accused Ronaldo of taking drugs too. If we really knew what these guys were doing I think it would shock the world. It's happened in every other sport except this one.
It's been discussed though, plenty of times. He had a deficiency and was given a treatment to bring his levels up to those of a normal person, end of story.
It's retarded to make such an accusation with no evidence and even more retarded when you consider the player in question isn't renowned for using his physicality. The more you go on about it the dumber you look.
Completely consistent with our new "Insult the poster, not the post" policy.
You never seem to be in a hurry to have a go at Ronaldo. I think it's a cynical view. And with no evidence or nothing to suggest they're cheating I wouldn't even give it a thought.
So the story goes... how much did he use? When did he stop? Did he ever stop? Is he still taking HGH? How much? Does he have a therapeutic use exemption?
HGH has massive athletic benefits and has been abused in many other sports. Messi has used it and/or has/had access to it. He is considered to be the greatest player in the world, a complete statistical anomaly. Where have we seen that before?
7 consecutive Tour De France titles.
You obviously haven't read my posts on Ronaldo.
I'm not surprsed that you don't care about drug use in sports, most people don't. That's how it was here with baseball forever. And when they really started testing it was all the guys at the top that were the worst offenders.
He's drug tested regularly you know. This is professional football, and again one crucial factor you keep ignoring. Messi isn't a very physical player, he's nowhere near the fastest, nowhere near the strongest, nowhere near the fittest. He's just really good with a ball at his feet.
So Messi's success can be attributed to having taken medication to cure a legitimate height disorder a decade ago ? I think i've heard it all now.
I wouldn't say I don't care about it because I refuse to accuse players of cheating without a shred of evidence. I mean is it okay if I accuse the USA women's football team of juicing because to me they looked physically much stronger than the other sides in the tournament?
There was like over a decade of speculation and accusations before Lance was suspended. With Messi there would have to be a smoking gun somewhere. Messi is way to famous for it to stay a secret.
I am suggesting that the potential for abuse of the drug exists. Motive and opportunity. He had a prescription, the best cover you can get. Who decides what his does is? Who decides when he stops taking it?
I don't think they even developed a test for HGH until this year.
Do you even know much about his situation ? It seems you're spackling together a lot of conjecture to create a viable argument. One could easily invert your questions and presume it was a temporary thing a decade ago.
Why isn't anyone playing football testing positive? It's not because they are all clean
It could happen. Maybe he is clean. After every one of my athletic heroes has turned out to be a drug cheat, except for the guys who kick a ball, I'm a suspicous guy
do i have to remind all of you of this:
look at the names of the players that formerly held those records
no maradona, no pele, only distefano
Interestingly Ronaldo came very very close in most of these records, or even have chance to break it later. So I should assume Messi>Ronaldo>Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano based on same logic?
Maybe they are dirty, but we'll never know since nobody ever tests positive for PEDs in FIFA. But if I later found out they took drugs I would not be shocked at this point. Nothing would shock me, golf, tennis, swimming, biking, running, badminton.
Athletically, he isn't particularly impressive (compared to top level athletes). Especially now that he doesn't seem to be as quick as he was as a teenager. All his best attributes are essentially taught - control, touch, movement, manipulation of the ball (i.e. dribbling). Maybe you could say they're related to sensory genetics?
Man beasts like Ronaldo and Bale are far more genetically (or PED) gifted athletes.
The next iteration should be fascinating where you will monsterous athletes combined with Messi/Iniesta like skills. Football's answer to Lebron James.
Man beasts like Ronaldo and Bale are far more genetically (or PED) gifted athletes.
The next iteration should be fascinating where you will monsterous athletes combined with Messi/Iniesta like skills. Football's answer to Lebron James.
My brother is actual on the same sort of treatment as Messi had (Well the doctors said it to him, although that might have just being to make him happy)and I can say that it's nothing more than a growth hormone and it doesn't give you super footballing powers (Although my brother oddly enough is very good at football)or any athletic advantage.
As Messi getting the best cover you can get I'm pretty sure there isn't a lower or higher tier with regards to growth hormone's. Everyone will have their own personal programme and schedules(You can't grown more if you pay more). The reason Barca paid for the treatment is because it cost thousands of pounds (We were lucky that our was on the NHS).
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Messi had a medical condition for which HGH is the treatment when he was a kid. So what? If he needed it now he could get a medical exemption so it wouldn't be considered a PED anyway.
Armstrong took PED and blood doping etc to cheat, not cure a medical condition. A bit different no?
My son's friend was a very promising Rugby League player but miniscule. He underwent HGH treatment in his early mid teens to help him grown and not suffer the potential other symptoms of this condition (poor eyesight etc). He has got quite a bit taller and gained normal teenage musculature but that is all. Trying to compare HGH treatment for kids with medical issues to PED cheating is very silly indeed.
Although Maradona was the best player with a single foot. He was so 1 footed I think he only needed the other to stop him falling over occasionally.
A few years ago I thought that Ronaldo was TBPITW TM and that Messi was brilliant with potential to be TBPITW TM and he then almost instantly won the Ballon d'Or and FIFA World Player of the Year repeatedly plus winning everything in site. I still think it is hard to say that either is a better player than the other - they are both utterly brilliant - we are very lucky to witness such ability and skill. Other players we mention were superb but no way were they better than these 2 - Maradona wasn't anywhere near the standard of these 2 - world class though he was.
Nothing would surprise me at this point as well. But, there is a million dollars out there for anyone who can find any sort of link to Messi and drug cheating. That person would be able to sell the story for big money to Marca, a tabloid, get a book deal out of it. Why would anyone sit on that story? No one is that loyal. Things like this usually leave massive paper trails. For every doping scandal in sports there is usually a smoking often a ton of them. That is why I do not believe Messi is guilty of doping because if he was I doubt it would be kept quiet for very long.
It's also got much to do with internet jealousy culture where it's too easy for observers to casually insinuate someone is on drugs instead of compliment them on their achievements. Sort of a subconscious way of rationalizing one's own lack of accomplishment by attempting to denigrate those of others.