Lionel Messi - Performances

mancan92 said:
What crap so your telling me cedric, a 50 year old pepe and fonte with guerro is better than otemendi (just was one of the best cb in the league), rojo and mercado?

Come on they are at least equal. Portugals worse. Midfield look at the options. William calvalho? Only moutinho is decent. Macherano and benga are clearly better than both. Then the Portugal attack is a joke in comparison
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Cedric is better than Mercado. Comparisons with Otamendi are irrelevant given one is a right back and one is a centre back.

But yeah, 50 year old Pepe is better than Otamendi and Rojo. Rojo is utter shite and only rated by people on here.

You mock 50 year old Pepe then talk up Mascherano being better than Moutinho? It's 2018 mate.
 
He looks like he’s given up he should retire and concentrate his club.
 
harms said:
I mean... what?
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That was the Euro Ronaldo really burst onto the international stage. (Yes, he was at the 2004 Euros). He played some magnificent football as he helped Portugal get to the final where they lost against Greece.
 
Pink Moon said:
Cedric is better than Mercado. Comparisons with Otamendi are irrelevant given one is a right back and one is a centre back.

But yeah, 50 year old Pepe is better than Otamendi and Rojo. Rojo is utter shite and only rated by people on here.

You mock 50 year old Pepe then talk up Mascherano being better than Moutinho? It's 2018 mate.
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Come on thats just silly. Pepe now is not better than otemendi he just isn't. Jose fonte is worst than both. Moutinho is also old now and is no longer the player he was. The same as Macherano. Really saying that the Portugal team is better in comparison to Argentina is stupid.
 
The state of that Argentina performance was utterly abysmal. Messi didn't help himself strolling around the pitch but he still did far more than any other player did when he was on the ball.

Still reckon Argentina will go through. Nigeria draw/win tomorrow and then an Argy win with Croatia beating Iceland.
 
I'm disappointed, that's all I'm going to say. also cost me a fortune today, I was sure he was going to score.
 
mancan92 said:
What crap so your telling me cedric, a 50 year old pepe and fonte with guerro is better than otemendi (just was one of the best cb in the league), rojo and mercado?

Come on they are at least equal. Portugals worse. Midfield look at the options. William calvalho? Only moutinho is decent. Macherano and benga are clearly better than both. Then the Portugal attack is a joke in comparison
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Are you serious, Mascherano is in China and is a finished completely, couldn't even run around this world cup. Like yaya but he can't blame racism when he gets the boot. William slow and all as he is, is 5x the defensive midfielder Mascherano is. Mascherano of 2018 is not Masch or his peak or even 2015-16. Rojo can't get in neither Argentina nor Uniteds team.

Argentina's team tonight.

Caballero - OK usually but terrible tonight. Not a patch on Patricio
Otamendi - Good CB when with a partner who can control him, shite tonight. Would probably start for Portugal but it'd be a tight call.
Mercado - Nothing Player, Shite. Worse than anything Portugal have at CB.
Tagliafico - Nothing LB at Ajax, not a CB. Certainly worse as a CB than anything Portugal have.
Salvio - Average winger, nothing in comparison to Bernardo Silva or anything Portugal can offer.
Mascherano - Old and completely crocked, hence off in China. Every midfielder Portugal have is better.
Perez - Try hard but shite, wouldn't get near the Portugal team.
Acuna - Very average, wouldn't get near the Portugal team.
Messi - Having a shit WC because he can't get the ball and seems to be in full meltdown.
Aguero - Argentina's only even remotely decent attacker this WC, would walk into the Portugal team beside CR7, instead of Guedes.

Messi has been terrible thus far no denying that. But in his defence, he can't get the ball, his team are incapable of passing it 3 yards. Argentina are Scotland with Aguero and Messi.
 
Sad to see such a wonderful player display such a defeatist personality. Displayed no fight or charisma whatsoever. On the night he was just another crap player in another crap team. Meza was their best player, at least the useless sod had moments where he tried. I hope they go out - bunch of half arsed jokers the lot of them.
 
R'hllor said:
Put all bullshit about Messi vs you know who on a side, that was weird tonight from him, i expected to see at least opposition players hackling him down 24/7 as a way to stop him but nope, they didnt need to and thats most damaging thing for me.
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Tonight was something else. The past few months he seems to have completely lost it and his team mates aren't good enough to help him out. I don't even know if he has the mentality to come back from it. If he can't come back then that is danming.
 
If anyone thinks Argentina is anything but a desastrous team now I don't know what to say. In the first half, you could clearly see that Messi had the instructions to stay further up front and what happened? Nothing. If he doesn't drop deep, Argentina is completely harmless. And the defense and midfield, at least those players chosen by Sampaoli, are nowhere near WC level. Callero's brain fart was only the most obvious flaw.

I don't know what Sampaoli is thinking, either. No Banega, no Di Maria, no Dybala, no Higuain, no Lo Celso. How is all that supposed to work?
 
I think some our slightly out of touch with reality regarding Messi. Because Ronaldo is a physical specimen, it doesn't mean the same should be expected of Messi.

Messi is clearly passed his physical peak, its been obvious for the last few years. Fun fact but Messi has already played more games than Paul Scholes did in his whole career. The team around him needs to be constructed in a way to mask his deficiencies and Argentina team does a terrible job of that.

Comments like, he doesn't track back or he walks about make me think what do you expect with the mileage he's clocked.
 
There's nothing he can do for the first goal but the whole team looked very fragile after it, also he's not a player like Xavi (or Modric for that matter) like some are suggesting where he drops down and becomes a world class CM. Today he looked lost in this set up and in second half he was more active and trying to make things happen but the team was all over the place and Croatia were very good and have the better midfield.
 
ROFLUTION said:
That was the Euro Ronaldo really burst onto the international stage. (Yes, he was at the 2004 Euros). He played some magnificent football as he helped Portugal get to the final where they lost against Greece.
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I'm sorry, but a good performance and "dragging a team to the final" aren't the same thing. Cristiano was good in 2004, but he wasn't even the best player of that Portugal side.
 
harms said:
I'm sorry, but a good performance and "dragging a team to the final" aren't the same thing. Cristiano was good in 2004, but he wasn't even the best player of that Portugal side.
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Im sorry but he was. Scored one of the goals in the semi to bring Portugal in the final. Was good in the Group too and overall was an exciting player for Portugal. Dragging might be too much, as the rest of the team was good - but he was really amazing in that tournament - to me he was the best player for Portugal in 2004.
 
El Jefe said:
I think some our slightly out of touch with reality regarding Messi. Because Ronaldo is a physical specimen, it doesn't mean the same should be expected of Messi.

Messi is clearly passed his physical peak, its been obvious for the last few years. Fun fact but Messi has already played more games than Paul Scholes did in his whole career. The team around him needs to be constructed in a way to mask his deficiencies and Argentina team does a terrible job of that.

Comments like, he doesn't track back or he walks about make me think what do you expect with the mileage he's clocked.
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Yeah he's been past his peak for a while now.

But his physical decline has made it harder to build a team around him.

If you stick him as the false 9, you need exceptional center midfielders to help supply him, but also to help maintain numerical superiority in the midfield and to cover for his lack of running.

If you play him out wide, teams can overload that side and expose him not tracking back.

If you play him in front of a double pivot, it'll look like that mess we saw in the Iceland game. Teams can just shadow him away from danger with crowding the midfield, and then again, you get exposed for him not tracking back.

I've no doubt in my mind, he's a better player than Ronaldo, but the past few years have certainly showed that it's not easy to mask his own deficiencies in a team.
 
Don't think he should be fully blamed for today the defence was shambolic and midfield non existent. One of the worst team performances of the tournament.

However, he does have to take responsibility for the first game he should have put that penalty away.
 
He was so bad it was not even funny anymore. Don't want to judge his career immediately because I still believe in Argentina's chances for beating Nigeria and getting 2nd in front of Iceland with 1 point more.
 
Shades of Rooney from Messi in this tournament. Pretty sad to see to be honest.
 
Did I just read that Cedric is supposedly better than Marcelo? Better leave this thread immediately.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I've no doubt in my mind, he's a better player than Ronaldo, but the past few years have certainly showed that it's not easy to mask his own deficiencies in a team.
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They have different strengths and weaknesses and while I think both are versatile players people were always overrating Messi as a complete footballer that could play attack, midfield and defense. That's clearly not the case and while he had a bad game (first half specially) you do need an strategy to offer him a platform to perform.
 
They are really shite apart from Aguero, Messi and Dybala. I know its' not exactly their problem position but would it have hurt to have Icardi as an option, he could dig deep and get those ugly goals that sometimes even Aguero can't.

That being said, Sampaoli is not making matters any better by throwing the whole team under the bus just to protect Messi, claiming that the squad is not good enough to show Messi's brilliance. He should remember they still have a chance of qualifying and need to stick together for a bit longer.

EDIT: Apologies, meant to post this in the Argentina NT thread.
 
Kapardin said:
They are really shite apart from Aguero, Messi and Dybala. I know its' not exactly their problem position but would it have hurt to have Icardi as an option, he could dig deep and get those ugly goals that sometimes even Aguero can't.

That being said, Sampaoli is not making matters any better by throwing the whole team under the bus just to protect Messi, claiming that the squad is not good enough to show Messi's brilliance. He should remember they still have a chance of qualifying and need to stick together for a bit longer.
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He will get the sack anyway, it doesnt matter what he says now or doesnt. He shouldnt wait til a day before the game to reveal his formation and team, should just do it now. What a weird man he is.
 
Acheron said:
They have different strengths and weaknesses and while I think both are versatile players people were always overrating Messi as a complete footballer that could play attack, midfield and defense. That's clearly not the case and while he had a bad game (first half specially) you do need an strategy to offer him a platform to perform.
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Indeed.

I think Argentina and even Barca just treat him as if he's above any tactical role on the team.

He maybe has too much freedom to a fault.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
It's sad that some people actually take satisfaction in seeing one of the greatest ever players getting knocked out of the world cup.
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The wankfest over him is annoying. No doubt one of the greatest of all time and anyone that knows football can see and will know that. It is just funny to see some of those that worship him deny the guy has any weakness or fault at all!
 
shamans said:
The wankfest over him is annoying. No doubt one of the greatest of all time and anyone that knows football can see and will know that. It is just funny to see some of those that worship him deny the guy has any weakness or fault at all!
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Doesn't mean you have to resort to their level. I remember when Ronaldo couldn't even control the ball at the start of the season and he was getting ripped into, it wasn't nice but look at how the tables have turned. Hope you can stay humble when the tables turn again.
 
2mufc0 said:
Doesn't mean you have to resort to their level. I remember when Ronaldo couldn't even control the ball at the start of the season and he was getting ripped into, it wasn't nice but look at how the tables have turned. Hope you can stay humble when the tables turn again.
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It isn't about Ronaldo. It is just the sense of superiority that so many Barca and Messi fans have developed over the last decade. Almost as if they understand football better than anyone else and their opinion reigns supreme because they follow "real" football. Also the fact that Messi can never be wrong and has no mistakes.

It is nice to see their reactions now. Anything I say won't change the greatness of Messi and believe me I love seeing Messi do things that I have never in my life seen another footballer do (and not sure if I will). One of the GOAT and as a Ronaldo fan myself I can admit maybe I am biased and he truly is the best but it is just his fans that annoy me and not going to lie his meltdowns are kind of funny.

To summarize, I am not taking anything away from his greatness and who am I to do that anyway!
 
He's dragged them to 3 finals and has lost all 3. I don't think he can take having the country's weight on his shoulders any more.
 
He is already one the greatest of all time. Being the GOAT depends on personal view so not everyone will ever agree. His decline is clear season after season, still amazing he scored more than 40 goals and created so many for his club. We should appreciate him because when he retires there won't be another like him
 
kouroux said:
He is already one the greatest of all time. Being the GOAT depends on personal view so not everyone will ever agree. His decline is clear season after season, still amazing he scored more than 40 goals and created so many for his club. We should appreciate him because when he retires there won't be another like him
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I don't think he's declined season after season.

He's definitely declined since his 2014-2015 season, but the following 3 seasons are at a similar level.

His loss of explosiveness has been really noticeable this WC though.

The last 2 times he 'failed' in the WC though, he followed it up with his 2 best seasons. So his following season will be intriguing.
 
JPRouve said:
Argentina are actually a country that lives on reputation, their midfielders and defenders are wank, no decent club want them. They have a bunch of very talented attacking players but you don't play football with 5 strikers and 5 wingers.
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Is that really true though?

Otamendi plays for City, Fazio for Roma, Garay for Valencia, Rojo for United, Mercado and Pizarro for Sevilla, Paredes for Zenit(and before at Roma, and every big italian club wants him), Biglia for Milan, Banega for Sevilla, Lo Celso for PSG....

The only real hole they have is at fullback, but with the sheer amount of attacking talent they have, they should be able to compensate for it, at least in part.

The plain truth is that they should not be this bad. They're massively underperforming their individual talent and ability

Messi was good until Croatia's goal. Then he turned to shite
 
Smithy_123 said:
He's dragged them to 3 finals and has lost all 3. I don't think he can take having the country's weight on his shoulders any more.
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How did he drag them in 2014. They scored 2 goals in 4 KO matches, one of which came from Messi's assist. They conceded 1 goal, in extra time.

Their defense lead by Mascherano who was playing like a mad man was to be praised, not their attack.
 
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