It's a shame that a team built around Nicolas Otamendi in defence has to be built around Messi in attack.
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
Indeed.
I'm not questioning it, I'm saying it openly that they don't have much talent in team bar their attackers.
Nah
They will basically be worse off.
Haven't won a trophy since 93 and don't look like they have a chance anytime soon.
Brazil will likely win the next Copa
Yes.
We are saying that the only supposed talent they have is in attack. And that doesn't even perform.
But the rest of the team wouldn't look out of place in a mid-table club . Compare them to the other serious contenders .
So you concede that they do have talent. Something that was questioned.
That's not what you said originally. "What talent" I believe it was.
Messi really needs to stop taking penalties. At this point you can’t call it anything but a mental block.
Every team in this tournament does.
All elite athletes.
Some more than others.
With Argentina not being among the top 5.
yes, and?
And now you've backtracked and said "bar their attackers." Disappointing that I have to point that out to you.
He put too much pressure on himself. The way he played today, just not Messi. Trying to hard to dribble past player and shoot every single time. He made some nice tricks but they were pointless. Sad.
actually, I did point out that only Aguero and Messi are the ones who could have done something with ball today, so...
Still a great player but far below what he was in 2012.
You get the vibe he isn't chomping at the bit to be there
Left footers usually don't have variety in where they hit their penalties and hence are easier for keepers to read.
He's still fantastic at club level, pretty much carried Barca to the league title.
As he said after the Copa america in 2016 Argentina "isn't meant to be."
Should put his ego aside and let someone else take pens. Never been reliable.
Surely not? It's the same areas to aim at whether I'm using my right or left foot, isn't it?
Go and watch several left footers taking penalties. And count the number of times you are right about where they will place the ball. Years of watching and participating in penalty shoot outs has taught me that. Just like it's a myth that penalties are a lottery.
Bullshit... I can place my penalties wherever I want.
We are just a few (left footed), so maybe from a small sample u are getting big conclusions.
Shit penalty takers can be left or right footed.
PS. The only generalization I'll accept is that we are much more talented.
you pathetic buffoon. I descend from a race of people who are masters of the art of penalty taking. So quit embarrassing yourselfBullshit... I can place my penalties wherever I want.
We are just a few (left footed), so maybe from a small sample u are getting big conclusions.
Shit penalty takers can be left or right footed.
PS. The only generalization I'll accept is that we are much more talented.
I read some stats some years ago, that left footers are worse when it comes to penalties.Bullshit... I can place my penalties wherever I want.
We are just a few (left footed), so maybe from a small sample u are getting big conclusions.
Shit penalty takers can be left or right footed.
PS. The only generalization I'll accept is that we are much more talented.
Thought he was a bit greedy today. Plus the teams reluctance to do a single thing without him is shocking. 3 or 4 times di maria could have crossed for kun but tried to find messi edge of box, was easy to defend as you constantly know where the ball is going and Iceland put 3 men there. Should have let aguero take the pen, think it's getting to the stage where you question him every time he takes a pen.
rn7He went into Steven Gerard mode after missing that penalty. Played far too greedy.
He cost them today. He needs to bounce back vs Croatia.
He cost them today. He needs to bounce back vs Croatia.
He should do well against Croatia if they set up the same as they did today, modric and Rakitic with no DM and lovren to get past.
He was average today wasn't he. Iceland were never massively troubled by him, to be honest. Never looked uncomfortable.
Strákarnir okkar did terrific job against Messi today.
I'm so glad he wasn't on his game....
I'm so glad he wasn't on his game....
They just have two center backs playing at the first placed and second placed clubs in England. Iceland would be happy to have any player playing for clubs of that stature, Gylfi is their best player and he is just good enough for a side like Everton, failed when he had a shot at a semi-big club like Spurs.
Seems like everything is forced through him when they attack. They have some other great attackers, playing to their strengths would take some of the attention away from him so he can be more effective.
I really like Sampaoli but he hasn't got them set up well. Messi was still the best player on the park today but not a good performance by his standards.
I really like Sampaoli but he hasn't got them set up well. Messi was still the best player on the park today but not a good performance by his standards.
This. I'm a big Ronaldo fan boy but I also love watching Messi play. He wasn't in his groove today and looked overly forced with a lot of things. Has it gotten to his head?
He should retire from the NT after the WC and only focus on Barca. Would be good for his career in terms of longevity
No way. For his legacy he needs to stick at the national team. Still a chance to win the Copa America and could even play at the next World Cup at 34.
If he quits, he’ll slip into Ronaldo’s shadow faster than you could imagine.
He doesnt care about the legacy, he is not a lunatic like the guys in the Messi vs Ronaldo thread. He should do whatever the feck he feels is the right thing to do. I dont think he cares half as much about Ronaldo as some think. Thats what media, the public and fans created
So, there were 3 men on Messi practically any time he turned and tried to do anything in the final third, and yet, none of his team-mates can arse themselves to exploit all the extra space?
Messi is actually part of the problem in that team by way of being seen as above his team-mates rather than a player in unison with them. You've a bunch of so-called professionals standing around like spectators neither aiding Messi or willing to take on the responsibility of doing anything with the ball when they get it. The manager has to take the blame for the state of their tactical planning and reverence to Messi. Reminds me of that scene in Escape to Victory where Pelé says that the others should give him the ball and he'll do the rest.
With the way Messi is playing, everything becomes predictable: he'll lay the ball off and attempt a one-two, get a poorly played lay off back and then be crowded out. At this point, he'll look to the sky and amble back to his attacking midfield position. He's not moving when he doesn't have the ball and he's not enabling lesser players to find him because he's used to the likes of Iniesta and Busquets being able to thread him in with acute passes that few others in world football can make so effortlessly; within the Argentina team, he's lucky if he gets a couple of threaded passes of that calibre in an entire game, so he has to move and make himself available.
Messi is evidently not Maradona; he cannot carry the national team and take all the burdens on by himself - the pressure weighs him down as opposed to Maradona, who thrived in it and lifted those around him with his own self-belief. What this means is he needs help and it will look even more bizarre if changes aren't made to get the likes of Icardi out there on the pitch to share the load or at least be a better foil for the one-twos. Messi's ego of being 'the one' has to be reconsidered before Argentina are knocked out in embarrassing and needless fashion.
The penalty miss isn't as important as the team looking completely out of sorts and bereft of ideas and creative play - wtf is Di Maria doing out there and why isn't he stepping up to the plate to share the load?
The Messi vs. Ronaldo thing will rumble on, but I think the more interesting thing happening with them both at NT level is how Ronaldo is actually interacting with those around him, and modifying how he plays to both fit in and to enable them whereas Messi is getting more frustrated and entrenched in his way of playing than ever before. Who would have thought that would be the case between the two a few years ago? It's like the Twilight Zone at the minute, and Argentina/Messi don't have much time to turn things around. If they keep today's level of play up, it isn't inconceivable that they go out in the group stage, which would be an absolute disaster in regard to Messi's legacy.
Messi is actually part of the problem in that team by way of being seen as above his team-mates rather than a player in unison with them. You've a bunch of so-called professionals standing around like spectators neither aiding Messi or willing to take on the responsibility of doing anything with the ball when they get it. The manager has to take the blame for the state of their tactical planning and reverence to Messi. Reminds me of that scene in Escape to Victory where Pelé says that the others should give him the ball and he'll do the rest.
With the way Messi is playing, everything becomes predictable: he'll lay the ball off and attempt a one-two, get a poorly played lay off back and then be crowded out. At this point, he'll look to the sky and amble back to his attacking midfield position. He's not moving when he doesn't have the ball and he's not enabling lesser players to find him because he's used to the likes of Iniesta and Busquets being able to thread him in with acute passes that few others in world football can make so effortlessly; within the Argentina team, he's lucky if he gets a couple of threaded passes of that calibre in an entire game, so he has to move and make himself available.
Messi is evidently not Maradona; he cannot carry the national team and take all the burdens on by himself - the pressure weighs him down as opposed to Maradona, who thrived in it and lifted those around him with his own self-belief. What this means is he needs help and it will look even more bizarre if changes aren't made to get the likes of Icardi out there on the pitch to share the load or at least be a better foil for the one-twos. Messi's ego of being 'the one' has to be reconsidered before Argentina are knocked out in embarrassing and needless fashion.
The penalty miss isn't as important as the team looking completely out of sorts and bereft of ideas and creative play - wtf is Di Maria doing out there and why isn't he stepping up to the plate to share the load?
The Messi vs. Ronaldo thing will rumble on, but I think the more interesting thing happening with them both at NT level is how Ronaldo is actually interacting with those around him, and modifying how he plays to both fit in and to enable them whereas Messi is getting more frustrated and entrenched in his way of playing than ever before. Who would have thought that would be the case between the two a few years ago? It's like the Twilight Zone at the minute, and Argentina/Messi don't have much time to turn things around. If they keep today's level of play up, it isn't inconceivable that they go out in the group stage, which would be an absolute disaster in regard to Messi's legacy.
I agree that the media and fans create a big part of the narrative. Still, if you have a look at the both of them wanting a new contract every year after the other one just became the biggest paid player in the world, you can't help but feel how they envy one another.
Plus there are people with genuine insight like Mourinho who talk about the rivalry between the two being a real thing.
Masch is one of the best pure DM in the last 5 yrs or so. Banega isn't that bad; he schooled our midfield that had Pogba and Matic. Then Otamendi and Rojo are playing for the best two teams in Premier League.