Lionel Messi - Performances

[DonFerguson]

Oh, come on! They probably conceded 3+ about fifteen times this season!

I think he meant that teams start to place important on the Copa Del Rey when it comes to the later rounds. Real Madrid, Atletico, and Barcelona always went all-out when they got to the semis.

Madrid through a parade when they won in 2011, and went ballistic with the celebrations when they won it in 2014.

It just seemed that the previous poster was attempting to diminish what Messi and Barcelona did in the final and Daysleeper (Barcelona fan?) put it in perspective.

 

[Daysleeper]

I think he meant that teams start to place important on the Copa Del Rey when it comes to the later rounds. Real Madrid, Atletico, and Barcelona always went all-out when they got to the semis.

Madrid through a parade when they won in 2011, and went ballistic with the celebrations when they won it in 2014.

It just seemed that the previous poster was attempting to diminish what Messi and Barcelona did in the final and Daysleeper (Barcelona fan?) put it in perspective.

Spot on

 

[MVBDX]

Only in the early rounds, certainly not the later ones.

Real Madrid threw a parade last time they won the CDR

That was only due to the final being a Clasico, which naturally amplifies the magnitude of any match between the two. Same case with Super Copa Clasicos, if not no one would bother watching them.

 

[Ishdalar]

That was only due to the final being a Clasico, which naturally amplifies the magnitude of any match between the two. Same case with Super Copa Clasicos, if not no one would bother watching them.

Plenty of people would, you're talking about the difference between hype fans that only watch big matches, vs football fans that enjoy the sport, in the Super Cup we still get historic games like the Athletic 4 Barcelona 0 three years ago.

Dividing trophies into tiers by the amount of hype they get seems a little absurd, it would be like saying Jurassic World is a better movie than Ben-Hur or the The Godfather because more people paid to watch it. The level of the trophy is set by the teams competing for it, if you think that Sevilla reached the final coasting maybe you should've watched their game vs Atletico at Wanda, Atletico fielded Moya, Juanfran, Savic, Godin, Lucas, Koke, Gabi, Saul, Vitolo, Costa and Griezmann, at home, and lost. That's an starting 11 with potential enough to reach a UCL final.

 

[VBI]

The guy is beyond words. I managed to catch the Copa final during my second last day on holiday in Thailand (if you hate getting soaked constantly by fat tourists, do NOT go to Thailand during Songkran, btw), switched the game on just as Messi scored. Since he started played properly for Barca, we're all but assured of a 9th title in 14 seasons, with just under half the Copas available to win during that time (6, with 4 in a row, only I believe the 3rd time ever that's been done. 4 CLs during that time, 2 Trebles, an absolute mountain of the 3 different Super Cup tournaments to be won. He has been the key player in this era, the most successful in Barca's history.

 

[wub1234]

Messi deserves credit for the titles he actually won and for the achievements he got out of it, obviously. No shit.

Well, according to you:

The story of this Messi era has been that Barcelona have had their golden generation, got an immense amount of talent straight from the academy like we’ll never see again, had arguably the best player and the best team ever and their trophy cabinet has barely caught up with Madrid at all.

There was a time when Real had double the La Liga titles of Barcelona, now it's 33-25. Barcelona have also dominated the Copa del Rey recently, and have now won 11 more than Madrid. According to you, this hasn't actually happened, and it can mainly be attributed to the Barcelona academy. This is the case, according to you, even though Barcelona have gone unbeaten in La Liga this year with all of the key players from that academy having left, or playing a seriously diminished role, with Iniesta about to leave. Clearly the Barcelona team is nowhere near as good as it was, yet they've still dominated Spanish football this season.

But according to you, this both didn't happen, and simultaneously also happened, but didn't happen primarily due to Messi. Which is a strange conclusion, when absolutely everyone else alive considers Messi to be the key factor. But it's not as strange as your conclusion that "Barcelona [have] barely caught up with Madrid at all", despite completely dominating Spanish domestic football for the last decade, and winning 11 more trophies than Real during this period.

 

[Daysleeper]

That was only due to the final being a Clasico, which naturally amplifies the magnitude of any match between the two. Same case with Super Copa Clasicos, if not no one would bother watching them.

Again, you’re WAY off the mark here.

http://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2018/04/22/5adc7079e2704e7c368b45b9.html

7 million people in Spain watched the final.

 

[Peyroteo]

Well, according to you:

There was a time when Real had double the La Liga titles of Barcelona, now it's 33-25. Barcelona have also dominated the Copa del Rey recently, and have now won 11 more than Madrid. According to you, this hasn't actually happened, and it can mainly be attributed to the Barcelona academy. This is the case, according to you, even though Barcelona have gone unbeaten in La Liga this year with all of the key players from that academy having left, or playing a seriously diminished role, with Iniesta about to leave. Clearly the Barcelona team is nowhere near as good as it was, yet they've still dominated Spanish football this season.

But according to you, this both didn't happen, and simultaneously also happened, but didn't happen primarily due to Messi. Which is a strange conclusion, when absolutely everyone else alive considers Messi to be the key factor. But it's not as strange as your conclusion that "Barcelona [have] barely caught up with Madrid at all", despite completely dominating Spanish domestic football for the last decade, and winning 11 more trophies than Real during this period.

Again, what does that have to do with what I said? You're arguing things I never even said...

I didn't discredit the titles that Messi played a big part in. I'm talking about the titles he won by barely playing in them. Obviously he deserves a lot of credit for winning the league and the cup this season for example, he doesn't deserve any credit at all for Barcelona winning the league in 2005 though which is why you including it in those trophy counts doesn't make any sense.

Since Messi's been playing as a regular starter, Barcelona won 7 league titles and 3 Champions Leagues. Madrid won 4 league titles and 3 Champions Leagues and according to you he's the catalyst for a big change in the history of spanish football. 3 more league titles.

 

[Zehner]

He's right about that. It doesn't make that much sense to credit Messi for league campaigns during which he was more or less a squad player. These are misleading stats that read good on paper but fade a little bit once you analyze them in-depth. It is the same for the CL. One has to admit that Messi was presented with his first CL title because he played no important role in it while Cristiano was not only influential but arguably one if not the most important player in four CL wins.

With Messi it is more about the way he does it. It's incredible how he drags Barcelona to the league title on his own this year. His problem is that this approach isn't sustainable against good teams, as it seems. I mean, many people consider him a "big game bottler" currently although he stepped up against Atletico, Chelsea and Real Madrid this year. If he has a "bad" game, this very often leads to his team dropping points of losing knock out duels.

 

[Luke1995]

Six different teams have scored 5 against Sevilla this season, so yeah, they're not exactly the benchmark ATM.

And in Spain, CDR is usually the place to rest your players and test your bench. In terms of importance, the trophy is Super Copa tier.

The CDR is arguable harder to win than the FA Cup.

 

[wub1234]

Again, what does that have to do with what I said? You're arguing things I never even said...

I quoted exactly what you said in my previous post.

Since Messi's been playing as a regular starter, Barcelona won 7 league titles and 3 Champions Leagues. Madrid won 4 league titles and 3 Champions Leagues and according to you he's the catalyst for a big change in the history of spanish football. 3 more league titles.

As I already pointed out, Barcelona have won 11 more trophies than Real Madrid in the last 10 years. You've just stricken the other ones from the record because they don't fit in with your argument.

Also, Messi was definitely a regular starter by 2005-06 when Barcelona won the league. He infamously would have started in the CL final, but tore his hamstring and couldn't play. Of course, you state that Ronaldinho deserves all the credit for everything won at this time, and Messi can't even count this as part of his trophy haul, but later state that Barcelona's academy was mostly responsible for the titles won when Messi was winning Spanish Player of the Year virtually every season.

Furthermore, this thread is supposed to be about Lionel Messi's performances, so I'm not sure why you've come on here to start some pointless argument, which is probably quite boring for everyone else.

 

[Peyroteo]

I quoted exactly what you said in my previous post.


As I already pointed out, Barcelona have won 11 more trophies than Real Madrid in the last 10 years. You've just stricken the other ones from the record because they don't fit in with your argument.

Also, Messi was definitely a regular starter by 2005-06 when Barcelona won the league. He infamously would have started in the CL final, but tore his hamstring and couldn't play. Of course, you state that Ronaldinho deserves all the credit for everything won at this time, and Messi can't even count this as part of his trophy haul, but later state that Barcelona's academy was mostly responsible for the titles won when Messi was winning Spanish Player of the Year virtually every season.

What... Didn't Messi come out of the academy?? I'm giving HIM the credit, along with others of course who also deserve it but he was the star player and for the trophies where he actually played more than a few games he gets full credit for it.

For the ones he was barely playing then he obviously shouldn't. Bloody hell, how hard can it be to understand? They won 11 more trophies in the past 10 years, except most of those are supercups or the copa del rey, so I don't really care. Weird that 2006/07 doesn't count.

'Messi was definitely a regular starter by 2005-06'

Not true since he had injury problems that season, only played 25 games total, 15 as a starter for the whole season. They won the league and the Champions League, but he most certainly wasn't the catalyst for it no matter how much you want to pretend that was the case. Played in 17 league games and didn't play in the quarters, semis or CL final. Had a great game at Stamford Bridge in the round of 16 though, so he gets credit for that at least.

I'll repeat, since Messi's been a starter for Barcelona they won 7 league titles and 3 Champions Leagues. Madrid won 4 league titles and 3 Champions League and you're trying to tell me Messi is the catalyst for a change in the history of spanish football? It would have been impossible to do so too given Madrid are also a very good team.

Furthermore, this thread is supposed to be about Lionel Messi's performances, so I'm not sure why you've come on here to start some pointless argument, which is probably quite boring for everyone else.

You made a point, I disagreed and replied to it. I wasn't the one who brought it up, if it's boring you then let's leave it at that.

 

[Carolina Red]

Let’s get this back on to Messi’s performances please

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well Messi has lead them to 7 La Liga titles out of the last 10 with Real winning 2 and Atletico 1. And CDR has also been dominated by Barcelona. That's as much shifting of balance as one player can possibly do/influence. 7 titles out of 10 FFS. That's like our domination in the 90s where we toyed with the PL. And they're up against a Madrid team that chucked money at every talented player that existed. Pretty incredible achievement.

 

[wub1234]

Well Messi has lead them to 7 La Liga titles out of the last 10 with Real winning 2 and Atletico 1. And CDR has also been dominated by Barcelona. That's as much shifting of balance as one player can possibly do. 7 titles out of 10 FFS. That's like our domination in the 90s where we toyed with the PL. And they're up against a Madrid team that chucked money at every talented player that existed. Pretty incredible achievement.

I've already been (rightly!) told off for being off-topic, but, aside from the above, can I also just point out that in my original post, (a) I already acknowledged that Real have done equally as well as Barcelona in the CL, (b) I specifically said Spanish DOMESTIC football. I was talking about Lionel Messi's performances in SPANISH football:

Because in a couple of weeks it's going to be 33-25 to Real. If Messi can keep going and Barcelona can keep winning then by the time he's finished it could be that Barcelona are somewhere around 2-4 behind. Considering that they have also dominated the Copa del Rey in the Messi era, and have now won 11 more than Real Madrid in total (30-19), you could argue that Barcelona had become the most successful club in Spanish domestic football.

Perhaps there is a language barrier here, but the Champions League is of no relevance to this! And I already acknowledged that Real have been strong in the CL in recent years, which is mind-numbingly obvious anyway!

 

[Theonas]

Well Messi has lead them to 7 La Liga titles out of the last 10 with Real winning 2 and Atletico 1. And CDR has also been dominated by Barcelona. That's as much shifting of balance as one player can possibly do. 7 titles out of 10 FFS. That's like our domination in the 90s where we toyed with the PL. And they're up against a Madrid team that chucked money at every talented player that existed. Pretty incredible achievement.

Always amazes me how underrated those numbers are. As you say, it is pretty much us in the '90s except they are doing it vs one of the best teams in the world. Yet some would like us to believe that Real and Barcelona have been at the same level over said period. It renders winning title after title to a footnote achievement and insults teams who perform week in week out for 10 months in favor of those who hibernate and wake up come spring time. Milan did that back in the '00s and Real are currently bettering them at it.

 

[Bole Top]

that's the problem with winning; too much of it and you become used to it, and when you're used to it, you take trophies for granted. I bet not even the most optimistic Barca fans believed they'd be able to reduce the gap so quickly. difference between them and United in 90's is they aren't up against sleeping giant like Liverpool, but the biggest club in the world.

Barca became the only team Madrid absolutely hate playing against. as dominant and intimidating they can look against PSG, Bayern and Juventus, they will never enter the game against Barca with same confidence as long as Messi is in their first 11. what they have in midfield or defence doesn't even matter that much, or the fact they conquered Europe twice in row and they're preparing to do it again. last time on Bernabeu Barca had Vermaelen in defence, Madrid had their full midfield and dominated but still ended up frustrated and beaten. you never see Ronaldo or Ramos as nervous and frustrated as you see them when they face Barcelona. they're the only club that still have some sort of psychological advantage over Madrid.

 

[Fortitude]

true, some however believe he'll be prime iniesta in a couple of years time despite him being the laziest footballer in the world

Probably blinded by his great passing skills but it does take more than that to be a proper midfielder indeed

Two of the slowest, most immobile and lazy #10's who ever existed, both exceptional. Teams get built to enable their best player to function and compensate for whatever failings they have. Messi in midfield means more grafters doing the legwork in the team behind him.

 

[kouroux]

Two of the slowest, most immobile and lazy #10's who ever existed, both exceptional. Teams get built to enable their best player to function and compensate for whatever failings they have. Messi in midfield means more grafters doing the legwork in the team behind him.

Football isn't played like that anymore though.

 

[Fortitude]

Football isn't played like that anymore though.

What do you mean?

 

[kouroux]

What do you mean?

My bad. I typed something else entirely. What I meant to say is that aren't the CM position I was talking about.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Another hat trick and great display.

 

[Ish]

What’s that, La Liga goal 32 for the season?

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Yep and became the first player to score 30+ League goals in 7 different seasons.

 

[GledTheRed]

Watched the game tonight, guy is out of this world.

Best player ever.

 

[Ish]

Yep and became the first player to score 30+ League goals in 7 different seasons.

Insane. Absolutely insane.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Best player of his generation. Even without the goals tonight, his link up play was out of this world. Started every attack for his goals. The amount of other attacks that he orchestrated was unreal. Suarez could have had a hatrick himself from key passes from Messi, but his finishing was poor.

 

[IFC 1905]

There's absolutely no way Barcelona could've won the title without Messi.

He's won it almost on his own. And he's kept the unbeaten record as well

 

[Kearnkoff69]

He's just so good. Everything he does looks easy. If the aliens came down and challenged humanity to a footy match, Messi is the first player I'd want on our team.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Lovely performance. Just engineers the play. Would really like to see him shine in this World Cup - so hope he ends the season with a bang.


I like how inactive this thread is when he scores a hatrick

When Ronaldo scores a brace, his thread gains like 3 pages in a night.

 

[Apocalypse]

Lovely performance. Just engineers the play. Would really like to see him shine in this World Cup - so hope he ends the season with a bang.


I like how inactive this thread is when he scores a hatrick

When Ronaldo scores a brace, his thread gains like 3 pages in a night.

He's taken for granted. Anyone else scores the kind of goal he scored Vs Eibar at the end of last season and people would eulogize over it for months. Not Messi, the camera's didn't even pick it up properly.

Yep and became the first player to score 30+ League goals in 7 different seasons.

La Liga only I presume? Ronaldo's on 7 too if you count the 31 goal haul at Man Utd. Regardless, it's quite phenomenal. You could take all his goals away and he'd still be an even better version of Iniesta at his peak.

Turns 31 in a couple months time, given his intelligence on the pitch and passing ability it wouldn't surprise me if he's still Barcelona's best player past his mid 30s. Just a case of whether he wants to carry on or not.

 

[Ish]

He's taken for granted. Anyone else scores the kind of goal he scored Vs Eibar at the end of last season and people would eulogize over it for months. Not Messi, the camera's didn't even pick it up properly.



La Liga only I presume? Ronaldo's on 7 too if you count the 31 goal haul at Man Utd. Regardless, it's quite phenomenal. You could take all his goals away and he'd still be an even better version of Iniesta at his peak.

Turns 31 in a couple months time, given his intelligence on the pitch and passing ability it wouldn't surprise me if he's still Barcelona's best player past his mid 30s. Just a case of whether he wants to carry on or not.

Yeah, absolutely. People are so fixated on this Messi v Ronaldo arguments that they’re actually really missing out on just appreciating both players.

I have my opinion and preference and I’ll never try and convince anyone of the validity or righteousness thereof, but my gosh, its been great to basically see both their careers from start to nearing their end now. Especially Messi. He combines so many attacking elements into his game - dropping deep to dictate the play, passing, dribbling, movement, finishing etc. I’d say Barca need to alleviate the pressure (and their over reliance) on him though.

 

[Steven7290]

Just saw the El clasico. This guy doesn't mind counter-attacking football either eh?

 

[Semiarty]

https://i.imgur.com/siVmLO3.jpg

Vi.. Viva Messi?

 

[red4ever 79]

Footballing God

 

[Pexbo]

https://i.imgur.com/siVmLO3.jpg

Vi.. Viva Messi?

Wow most shots, most chances created AND most through ball chances created

 

[VBI]

Another great season for the Boss. His fourth Doblete, scoring in another final, scoring in 3 Clasicos to extend his lead as all time Clasico scorer, his fifth Pichichi award, and his fifth European Golden Shoe, all whilst at times having to play in a slightly more conservative team with less attacking options as they got used to not having Neymar and having Dembele in and out of the team with his fitness and injuries. Hopefully he gets plenty of rest before the World Cup so he can have some good performances there.

 

[berbatrick]

Going through this I realised something about Messi's big game record this season:

Home clasico: goal
Away clasico: penalty

Atleti away: nothing
Atleti home: goal

Sevilla (CDR final): goal

Juve home: 2 goals

Chelsea away: goal
Chelsea home: 2 goals

Roma home and away: nothing

Deportivo away (title match): 3 goals

Ecuador away qualification KO match: 3 goals

 

[MuranoLover]

If you mean that Barca is Messi , yes , it is .

 

[Ishdalar]

Going through this I realised something about Messi's big game record this season:

Home clasico: goal
Away clasico: penalty

Atleti away: nothing
Atleti home: goal

Sevilla (CDR final): goal

Juve home: 2 goals

Chelsea away: goal
Chelsea home: 2 goals

Roma home and away: nothing

Deportivo away (title match): 3 goals

Ecuador away qualification KO match: 3 goals

A lot of people criticized that, after Roma "he didn't show up" in another big game, he also scored vs Espanyol in the cup, and even if he doesn't score, he assists or still is our best player. The difference between Barcelona and other teams is that when our star doesn't have a great day, no one else shows up here.

But for some reason, not being able to win 100% of the big games on his own somehow takes merit away from him, because other stars might have bad games too, but their teams are able to do something without them.