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My first care is Manchester United, England comes in the picture by proxy, basically. I'm not English, so of course if there were 0 United players involved, I would not really care that much, though I also wouldn't actively cheer against them. But since our club has a proud British tradition and always has representatives in the respective countries, I always cheer on those countries more. Most of the time we have a very strong English core and I am fond of the English football culture due to the passion I have for our club.
The amount of twisting you are trying to do in order to suit your narrative and portray it as if my argument means we should support Liverpool and City, it just shows desperation to prove a point.
Fair enough. I will check the context the next time. Apologies
Can’t argue with that to be honest
So basically we should support every country a United player plays for and also support every club who has a player that plays for the same country as any United player ?
Who do we root against?
Who do we root against?
What happens in situations like we've just had... England v Scotland?
England get a corner. Who do we root for to get the header? Maguire (goal) or McTominay (clearance)?
So, so confusing....
(And I'm not English or Scottish so should I hope they both muck it up or not? My head hurts).
Commiserations to the English lads on here, all seemed to line up for youse after Jorginho's penalty didn't go in.
Good thing is that you have a lot of talent, just needs a manager that can trust them more. Have a few good years to look forward to.
Good thing is that you have a lot of talent, just needs a manager that can trust them more. Have a few good years to look forward to.
I see this point so often, but consider few things from a foreign fan like me:
- Not many hate England, if there’s hatred it’s mainly towards your fans/pundits/media, not the national team. If there was schadenfreude, it was much more about seeing the tears of cocky fans that laughed at crying young girl a week ago, rather than cherishing misery of Rashford or Saka.
- I started supporting United in late 90s age 6-7 due to my father’s influence, call me plastic since it was our best period but I loved United well before I fully understood the England thing. Finding out that in my eyes the national fan culture and toxic media environment are repulsive, what was the right thing to do? Stop supporting United because I wouldn’t enjoy seeing triumphal covers of the rags like the Sun?
- England, more than any other European country, is perceived completely different by its closest neighbors today compared to 20-30 years ago. It’s not only about Brexit (and when you tell your friends feck you I figured I’ll do better running against you than working with you, followed by smearing campaign and propaganda unworthy of any comments, you expect some reaction), and how you’re no longer considered cold, efficient professionals, but also about how the fan culture changed over the last years. There was a great post somewhere around from a German guy that had identical observations to mine - live English football late 90s was something I was in awe, even later I was still impressed by the multigenerational families supporting teams, passion, banter - but banter, not behavior of a prick. Maybe I’m wrong, but I see too much frustration, aggression and bad vibes.
You just made this up in your head.
I'd be happy for whoever wins, whilst feeling sympathy for those that lost and definitely wouldn't be gleeful about it.
Look, I understand the local rivalry and all that, it's completely normal. The banter and jokes, poking fun, that's all good and is what makes the sport even better. But what this thread became from the very beginning is very different from simply having fun, whilst containing some sporting dignity, especially when it concerns our own players.
What about the United players who played for other nations. Did you want every country to win - your point makes zero sense. Don't see much hatred towards United players just the England fans who defend the behaviour of the idiots
They are digging a hole for themselves trying to argue every point, accept the ridicule and move on with it, dont be so salty.
Of course. I supported Portugal because of Bruno, and France because of Pogba. When they played each other I was in the middle and just wanted both to have a good game. I supported France in the 2018 WC final only because of Pogba. I usually support the team that has more United players in it, and more often than not it happens to be England.
Where is this happening?
Wait, he's actually Bulgarian?Says the Bulgarian standing up for the honour of the English
Give it rest. Those kinds of English fans that you are standing up for probably don’t think much of your country either, unfortunately.
Exactly but I don't think many are laughing at England's United players. What concerns me is the abuse that the guys who missed the penalties are going to get from the England fans.
Holy shit, this dude's timeline. If England won that game, his family would have had to do a welfare check on him.
Fair enough. I'm American, not English, so I'm also a foreign fan. Supporting England in international tournaments happened naturally because during that time (98-06) we had Beckham, Scholes, G. Nev, Rio, Rooney all playing for England, and it became my adopted NT. Also because they were the eternal losers, and each tournament ended in tears. That's why it feels so special when England coming so close to winning something.
English football had much more of a hooligan problem in the late '90s then it does now.
Wait, you are Polish? Oh, I knew that because I could read what's in front of my face.Wait, he's actually Bulgarian?
What's in front of my face is 'Doomslayer, full member'.
We have mobile phones in Poland.
The disrespectful tone, just because I'm Bulgarian, was well noted, from you and that other poster. I never mentioned either of yours nationality or bring it up as some sort of amusement.
Guys please don't descend into arguments and disrespect about Poland or Bulgaria. In England we are usually better than that and both of you. But today is the day you can turn that around and unite against us.
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of this thread is banter, some carefully worded to look otherwise but it's just clickbait.
Have you ever thought that you can have your view but others (for whatever reason) can have a different view? Just agree to disagree and move on? I don't care how many times you post in this thread, your call, but it's a lot... can't be good for you if taking to heart?
Almost every United fan laughed at Liverpool when they blew the league - it wasn't because it meant we won it was it? It was just because we like laughing at their misery, due to the rivalry that's built up over decades.
Now imagine an extension of this on a national basis? which has CENTURIES old rivalries.
Maybe it's banter, maybe it's dislike. Heyho?
It’s just amusement of being a Bulgarian ridiculing himself in order to defend cretins even the English posters attack for being, well, cretins.
Wait, he's actually Bulgarian?
Yeah. He’s tried to bring racism into a few conversations with me because we have differing views on certain things. Im Irish: I may very well be black for all he knows… but that’s clearly lost on him. I’ve also lived happily in England at one point and had many good trips over and still have family there. We are also very welcoming and respectful to the average English person over here despite our crazy history. I couldn’t give a shit where anyone is from at this point. He’s probably sitting in Bulgaria talking out of his arse basically and taking offence to everything on England’s behalf and calling people hypocrites but I think he means well… as daft as he comes off.
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Hey I like Bulgaria. Lovely beaches. And no, you aren't any better you witty bastard
.Uniting common enemies against the English with calm words.
You're like a modern day version of Mahatma Gandhi.
(Don't let that go to your head).
Football fans have always been fickle if not just irrational. "Sack Fergie, Sell Giggs" has been a running joke since but was a real statement when we hit a low between SAFs last two great teams.
It was more civilised yes, but we were a lot fewer, to the point we checked people's birthdays and PMd them or quickly scanned who was online
By the time Twitter came about I had already experienced the increasingly antagonistic bias on the internet. What's the point of posting if nobody engages in conversation? So just go full on, huh? I never registered on Twitter for that very reason, not interested in that dynamic at all.
Over a decade later, it obviously keeps getting worse for those more inclined to moderation and exchanging views.
He/she wasn't. It was just they'd realised you weren't English (who are more likely to stand up for the country in this thread... apart from Hectic obvs).
It could just have easily been "wait, he's American" or "wait, he's German".
Don't read too much into it.
Honestly, trying to do you a favour here. Leave this thread for a while.
Well, in my clearly naive mind, I've always wanted to believe that humans will go past their need for eternal conflict and seeing modern-day sports as a type of warfare or gladiators combat.I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of this thread is banter, some carefully worded to look otherwise but it's just clickbait.
Have you ever thought that you can have your view but others (for whatever reason) can have a different view? Just agree to disagree and move on? I don't care how many times you post in this thread, your call, but it's a lot... can't be good for you if taking to heart?
Almost every United fan laughed at Liverpool when they blew the league - it wasn't because it meant we won it was it? It was just because we like laughing at their misery, due to the rivalry that's built up over decades.
Now imagine an extension of this on a national basis? which has CENTURIES old rivalries.
Maybe it's banter, maybe it's dislike. Heyho?
I guess seeing the loss in a penalty shoot-out put me straight back to the EL final loss and I felt similar emotions, even if England is not my country. I truly felt gutted for the players and especially the United lads. I really believed England can win and to see the faces of another disappointment in Shaw, Rashford, it was heart-breaking.
For the record I've got nothing against Bulgaria. I asked if he was from Bulgaria because I was sure he was English the way he defends England.
If any Bulgarian felt offended, apologies.
If any Bulgarian felt offended, apologies.
Great sentiment, ain't gonna happen. Especially in the Caf.. you've got more chance of persuading China and Russia not to veto USA requests at the United Nations to be honest.
Every United fan feels for our players. Southgate parks the bus for 115 minutes then threw some of the players under it.
This. Sorry again if offended.
Ok, I think I see you now.
Obviously it's a downer seeing our players sad like that. We can all agree that the ones who actually played, made us proud during the tournament and they will be stronger for it.
I was so happy when Shaw scored, just as well to see the Maguire's domination throughout the Euros or his penalty in the final.
That's the worst thing I've ever seen.
I'm not sure why you are analysing it as an argument that requires examples.
Do you disagree joy/excitement, delusion and arrogance are different types of expressed behaviour?
Do you disagree there's a fine line between them and that alone means a third party could mistake one for another?
Maybe you should read that post again without thinking this is all a competition to be right and that other posters are some sort of enemy.
Some of the song analysis reminded me of Liverpool fans who became lawyers during the Suarez evra incident.
For me I liked the song when it first came out. Now though it's been used in an unsavoury way from my own experience and what I see. I don't think it's tongue in cheek as it was originally designed to be.
I'm foreign born but England raised. Have mixed race kids and in laws that are very big England fans. Even they notice they bullshit that gets thrown around during these tournaments towards my mad about football kids.
Don't know if anyone seen the posts on social media having a go at Asians wearing the England kit? Comments like "I hate seeing Pakis in an England top" etc. Reason I mention it is because it happened to one of my kids at the last tourney too.
I have been a UTD fan since 1978. All my mates and relatives were into Liverpool as they were the top team during my childhood. Comments about glory hunting foreigners for me are no different to the comments about England tops. It's an insult. My name on here is a mix of Robson and Keane. Captain fantastic himself. Yet England games always come with trepidation. From the 80's and windows getting smashed to piss heads damaging cars and what not in certain areas even during this tourney.
There was a reason that locally taxi drivers and take away owners/workers and restauranteurs were nervous yesterday. Lose or win they were expecting trouble. Some got it. Some didn't go out to work. Strange thing is most went out of their way to show support. Whether it was flags in cars or decor in eateries or wearing England attire.
Every tourney we have folk in the papers and media saying "ooh we can't put up flags in cars because it might offend the foreigners" "it's not our country anymore because we can't show pride" etc. Yet it's fact, locally anyway as I worked in local govt, that the putting if flag's on bin lorries and other vehicles such as taxis was a local govt decision based on the window flags etc coming off and people making claims. Health and safety and nothing to do with foreigners. Yet every tourney the same is spouted.
For me I liked the song when it first came out. Now though it's been used in an unsavoury way from my own experience and what I see. I don't think it's tongue in cheek as it was originally designed to be.
I'm foreign born but England raised. Have mixed race kids and in laws that are very big England fans. Even they notice they bullshit that gets thrown around during these tournaments towards my mad about football kids.
Don't know if anyone seen the posts on social media having a go at Asians wearing the England kit? Comments like "I hate seeing Pakis in an England top" etc. Reason I mention it is because it happened to one of my kids at the last tourney too.
I have been a UTD fan since 1978. All my mates and relatives were into Liverpool as they were the top team during my childhood. Comments about glory hunting foreigners for me are no different to the comments about England tops. It's an insult. My name on here is a mix of Robson and Keane. Captain fantastic himself. Yet England games always come with trepidation. From the 80's and windows getting smashed to piss heads damaging cars and what not in certain areas even during this tourney.
There was a reason that locally taxi drivers and take away owners/workers and restauranteurs were nervous yesterday. Lose or win they were expecting trouble. Some got it. Some didn't go out to work. Strange thing is most went out of their way to show support. Whether it was flags in cars or decor in eateries or wearing England attire.
Every tourney we have folk in the papers and media saying "ooh we can't put up flags in cars because it might offend the foreigners" "it's not our country anymore because we can't show pride" etc. Yet it's fact, locally anyway as I worked in local govt, that the putting if flag's on bin lorries and other vehicles such as taxis was a local govt decision based on the window flags etc coming off and people making claims. Health and safety and nothing to do with foreigners. Yet every tourney the same is spouted.
For the record, Wroclaw is a beautiful city
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