So you think that Toby will bring in 50 million pounds plus of improvement to our defence compared to those 2?
Lenglet (Sevilla CB)
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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So you think that Toby will bring in 50 million pounds plus of improvement to our defence compared to those 2?
Where did I say that? I said I don't think the 3 players I mentioned are good enough, hence we should be targeting a centre back as a priority.
If we’re going for a younger option at CB I’d prefer De Ligt who is a step above Lenglet. He’s a good option though with his release clause and he’s undoubtedly talented enough
Really, really don't want us to sign a CB before we sign a RW and a LB. Last season we ran out of funds for Perisic, don't want the same thing to happen this year.
@Trophy Room
I'm also curious as to what "will Toby bring £50 million pounds plus worth of improvement to our defence" actually means. Will Fred bring £50 million pounds plus improvement to our midfield? No? Better not sign him them.
What an absolutely bizarre way of looking at things.
I'm also curious as to what "will Toby bring £50 million pounds plus worth of improvement to our defence" actually means. Will Fred bring £50 million pounds plus improvement to our midfield? No? Better not sign him them.
What an absolutely bizarre way of looking at things.
Apologies, thought I was in the Toby thread but the same principles apply. I think the players that you mention have significantly more quality than you or a fair few others give them credit for. If Smalling or Jones played for other clubs people would appreciate their qualities a bit more.
Its fine saying that we need 'better' but I just cannot see a suitable candidate that can be realistically targeted.
That's fair enough, but I have a hard time believing that we can't improve on two players who have consistently proven over the years that they aren't good enough. That's only in my opinion, obviously.
If we were to transfer list either player, what level of club do you think would be interested?
It's a completely legitimate way of looking at things. Midfield is an area that requires recruitment and improvement so we identify a player and pay whats needed. I disagree however that our defence requires a new player as I feel that our existing cohort will improve. 50 million is an expression, put any number you want in there, I just don't see a reason to unnecessarily spend on a player in a position that we are well stocked in, that won't significantly improve us.
If you are happy with what we have in CD then fair enough, I get what you're saying. A lot of us aren't happy with what we have, though, hence the desire for a top quality CB. You can be well stocked with players who aren't good enough, and that's how I see our CD options currently.
I get your point but I think there'll be more interest than you think. The other factor here is perception, United are generally perceived as being De Gea reliant as his feats are highlighted. This is true to some extent but our style of play is such that our centre backs are more exposed than elite possession based teams and especially when we play a midfield two. Our defence had some fantastic performances this season. We would not have been able to finish second if they weren't up for it.
Don't get me wrong, my view is that we should always get the best. If Sergio Ramos becomes available by all means break the bank but I personally don't see a CB of that calibre that is available to really improve us.
Jones is always injured whilst Smalling has the occasional brainfart in him. I don't think they are good enough to be starters for us. Especially in Jose structured defensive line.
If Toby comes(hopefully), him and Bailly should be our starters come the start of the season and have Jones/Smalling as backups.
Can't see why we would want to sign Lenglet. Very similar to Lindelof, only one year younger. Both have their biggest strengths with the ball in their feet, but aren't particulary physical in terms of height and speed. Lindelof started out terribly in United, but has shown good development over the season, even with limited playing time. Lenglet have been decent in a Sevilla side that has had a bad season. I rate Lindelof higher than Lenglet, and see no reason to bring in another promising defender. If we are going to bring in a center back, I would rather go for someone that is world class from day 1 (Alderweireld) and help Bailly, Lindelof and Tuanzebe with their development.
Sell Jones / Rojo for 20-25 mill, buy Lengelt as replacement.
But he would be our 3rd/4th choice CB if we are buying Aldereweireid too, so don't know if we really need this transfer
if we have space for a talented center back I'd do it, he's basically same prospect like Jones at this age, future captain and best player or something...
question is if we don't want already an established world class palyer like alderweireld because dfefinitely next season we needto push for the title. Would be a shame to let talent like him go somewhere else though... We also have this set of very good centerbacks, just not the verybest but they are quite many and would need to let some of them go first
Smalling /Jones and Rojo should be sold imo. Buy a class CB and give Tuanzebe his chance at CB position.
The reality is that levy will not let Toby A go to United for anywhere near 50m or below. I bet it’s closer to 75m and no way should we pay that for a 29 year old CB who is just coming back from a bad injury
He’s nothing like Lindelof imho, he’s more aggressive
And he’s a million times better in the air than Lindelof
Hasn't he been quoted that he wants VVD kind of money? So yes probably at least 65/70m, which he is not worth.
I haven’t seen that quote but yeah that’s Levy for you. Always looking to add a Man Utd extra charge
Absolutely not worth that price
I have watched football for 25 years and tbh, i cannot recall ever seeing a centreback that is a poorer header of the ball than Linderlof. Almost amateurish level if i am not being overly harsh.
This. I dare say even Daley blind heads better, and he doesn’t like to mess his beautiful hair!
Lindelofs heading ability really is shocking for a CB. Not sure how we scouted him and thought he’s grand for the PL. hopefully he’s been heading all summer!
Look no further then our very own Baily with his turtle-jump technique.
I remember watching a video on Gary Neville sharing how they used to train headers as a defender in the youth teams. There would bw crosses swung in and defenders are made to head the ball in specific ways and directions. He also commented on how the younger players all wanna be ball playing defenders and have no interest in the basics of defending. Lindelof, Blind, Baily, Jones would be absolutely murdered by the likes of Terry, Vidic, Ferguson, Shearer, Drogba, Bierhoff etc.. Even tall players like Matic and Lukaku are not really impressive in heading as well.
Funny that you make that you mention it a few years ago Marius Trésor made that point about CBs not willing to be stoppers anymore, they all want to play like sweepers and no one is willing to just mark his opponent, rough him up, jump authoritatively for the ball or hoof it to the opposing goalkeeper when needed. And Marius Trésor was pretty good on the ball for an old school CB.
To be fair, Jones is decent in the air. Certainly not amazing so obviously doesn't stand up to the other players you mentioned, but he's comfortably our second best defender aerially. Shouldn't really be included with the likes of Lindelof, Blind and Bailly who are all quite weak in the air.
I thought Lenglet is right-footed. He is left-footed, which I appreciate.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/clement-lenglet/profil/spieler/182904
Van Gaal was peculiar in many ways, but some of the basic principles he stood by can be useful and relevant in any playing system. For example, having a left-footed defender in the CB position on the left, regardless of formation. Simple and straightforward.
A talented CB who's left-footed (preferably also tall) and just might become a top defender, doesn't exactly grow on trees. With Umtiti set to stay at Barcelona, I hope we're monitoring Lenglet. If not for the season ahead, at least for later on.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/clement-lenglet/profil/spieler/182904
Van Gaal was peculiar in many ways, but some of the basic principles he stood by can be useful and relevant in any playing system. For example, having a left-footed defender in the CB position on the left, regardless of formation. Simple and straightforward.
A talented CB who's left-footed (preferably also tall) and just might become a top defender, doesn't exactly grow on trees. With Umtiti set to stay at Barcelona, I hope we're monitoring Lenglet. If not for the season ahead, at least for later on.
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How good is he at playing out?
The last thing we need is another CB that isn't an improvement on what we have.
The last thing we need is another CB that isn't an improvement on what we have.
Pretty hot on the market from the reports
If we're looking at a cheaper alternative to Toby, might mean we think we have a chance with Bale and need to free up some budget. Or Levy's just being a dick as usual!
You say Smalling has the occasional brain fart in him and then want to pair Toby with Bailly, the same Bailly who has multiple brain farts in any given game?
Hopefully the first more likely the second.
I think we're only name dropping this guy as tactics to sign Toby.
Come August, Toby will be a United player. Instantly goes into the starting XI and become the leader we lack.
Come August, Toby will be a United player. Instantly goes into the starting XI and become the leader we lack.
This is how I see it. If we add another CB then at least one of our experienced CB must go unless of course we're switching to a 3 men CB system. We can't have Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Lindelof, Bailly, the new guy and Tuanzebe competing for 2 roles. Now if we add someone young like Lenglet then at least 1 experienced head must go so we can give more games to the younger generation. If we add Tobi instead, then it must be interpreted as a vote of no confidence towards the old guard and at least 2 experienced heads must go.
I'd rather see us add Leglet then Tobi tbh. Leglet and Smalling would hold the fort, Tuanzebe would go on loan, with Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo acting as cover. I would have preferred keeping Jones to Rojo to be honest but the latter had just signed a long term contract. Next year Tuanzebe should be experienced enough to replace either Rojo or Smalling (or hopefully both)
I'd rather see us add Leglet then Tobi tbh. Leglet and Smalling would hold the fort, Tuanzebe would go on loan, with Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo acting as cover. I would have preferred keeping Jones to Rojo to be honest but the latter had just signed a long term contract. Next year Tuanzebe should be experienced enough to replace either Rojo or Smalling (or hopefully both)
That unless we add them both and get rid of the Jones and Smalling nightmare for good.
I wouldn't be against that. What's this guy valued at, £30m?
Smalling and Jones out for £60m and get Toby and Lenglet in for £80m.
Lenglet has a 30m minimum fee clause.
A CB at the wrong end of his 20s is on the decline, he's getting slower, he starts showing signs of wear and tear and all he can offer to compensate is experience and influence. If the CB in question still play like an enthusiastic 18 year old and need to be nannied around then we simply shouldn't keep him. Thus if Mou truly believed that Tobi and Lenglet are the answer then let us get them both and seal the CB issue for good. Jones, Smalling and Rojo should be sold with Bailly, Lindelof and Tuanzebe acting as cover/competition. That unless of course, Mou has lost his faith in Bailly's ability to recover from injury. In that case, we should sell Bailly and maybe keep Smalling for another year.
Alderweireld just turned 29. To put that into context, here's the age of the best CBs in Europe who are head and shoulders better than everyone else:
Ramos - 32
Silva - 33
Pique - 31
Chiellini - 33
Hummels - 29
Kompany - 32
Godin - 32
Hummels - 29
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Toby will play at top level until 32. 3+1 year contract should be well doable.
I am referring to Smalling and jones here
Ah, I see. They're 28 and 26 respectively, though. Both would easily fetch £30m in todays market imo.