Neither do I. Evra's a better player, what we needed was someone as backup, Baines is too expensive for that.
Leighton Baines
- Thread starter ::sonny::
- Start date
Neither do I. Evra's a better player, what we needed was someone as backup, Baines is too expensive for that.
Couldn't agree more to be honest, a lot of shit getting spoken in this thread and people remembering the Evra of years gone by, If you go off form for the alst 12-24 months I don't think Baines would have any issues playing LB ahead of Evra.
It's a rest he needs a proper summer one which he won't really be getting depending on how long France last in the euros. He played what? The guts of 50 games last season and the season previous. He needs a proper ass holiday. Any decent cover behind him will be fine he's still top drawer just physically and mentally fatigued
Some interesting Stats:
http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/player-focus-leighton-baines/
http://theexecutionersbong.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/player-focus-leighton-baines/
Do you know if crosses and passes are counted separately? His pass completion rate makes sense if you count crosses as well. If not it's pretty poor.
No idea about that.
Overall my impression is that defensively he s not much better than Evra, however he seems to beat Evra at what's the Frenchman is good at, that is, going forward.
Nah.. usually crosses arent counted as a pass.
Stats like those dont tell the entire picture.
I remember something similar from last season. Had Enrique and Clicky in there as well.
Different styles of play, different roles in their sides. You'll understand more by watching them play.
Stats like those dont tell the entire picture.
I remember something similar from last season. Had Enrique and Clicky in there as well.
Different styles of play, different roles in their sides. You'll understand more by watching them play.
You can prove anything with stats, Evra's a better player, hope we don't sign him.
No thanks, not at Everton's expected inflated price.
Everton can't inflate prices, they can't risk not getting the money they badly need.
if Evra is the better of the two, he must show it more frequently. The post WC evra is nowhere near than his best. 2 seasons is more enough for a player to recover his old form
I'm a bit indifferent with Baines. He'd be good to have, especially as I think Evra's best days are behind him (not that he's not still top 3-4 left backs in the league, just no longer 1 or 2) and we will need a replacement sooner than later. The price is a bit steep but what you'd expect for an established England international of his age moving to a club like United. If Nani leaves, it'd make a lot more sense because I think he's capable of playing wide left.
Baines is an interesting one. I think he would either prove a revelation at a big club, or would simply be a "good" player, not one of the stars but not a weak link either.
The scenario I can't see however, is him being a flop, and with that in mind I think he would make a good signing to take over from a waning Evra.
The scenario I can't see however, is him being a flop, and with that in mind I think he would make a good signing to take over from a waning Evra.
We can, but to a point.
Can't see this signing happening considering the likely initial price and also his resale value which has been referred to in the past. As people have said stats don't show the whole picture. The best example I can think of is when Liverpool signed Henderson last year and Sky Sports kept comparing his stats to Modric's for some bizarre reason and showing that he had created more chances and scored more goals etc. We all know how that worked out.
Baines wont attract the Spanish big buys. On the local front, the only two clubs capable of causing us some headaches (Chelsea and Shitty) have the LB position sorted. As some stated Everton are not in a great position to negotiate, first of all because they need the money, secondly you dont really want to go in SAF's bad books especially after giving them Gibson and Phil Nev on knock out prices.
Evra's lack of form was hugely exaggerated.
I think its because he also averages 2 key passes per game (2nd highest to Pienaar for Everton) so maybe he tries to force it a bit much but at the same time he's one of their most creative players not just with his crossing. The downside is he conceeds the ball when it doesnt work out.
At a bigger club perhaps theres less pressure on him to be the major creator in the team and he can play more conservatively with his build up passing
Some people in here make it sound like Evra had a really poor season. He was a regular for a team being one minute away from winning the league. He had a couple of off-matches- but he generally was solid.
I am not saying he was brilliant - but he was nowhere near the weak point some people make him out to be. And imo - he was a lot better this season than last!
I am not saying he was brilliant - but he was nowhere near the weak point some people make him out to be. And imo - he was a lot better this season than last!
He was regular in a team which in practice, has no alternative for him. Fabio is good but he passes much of his time in the treatment room. That fact alone, is already a concern, since competition is part and parcel of being at a big club.
And yes, Evra performance has declined in the recent year or two.
Actually evra was poor in more than just few matches or couple of matches. He always has been one of my favorite player but he hasn't been upto the scratch for sometime. Even Clichy was ahead of evra for france.
Agree completely. He's nowhere near as much of a liability as many would claim. For about 2-3 years he was in my opinion the finest attacking left-back in world football. He was also playing in a team that was arguably the finest in Europe. The last 2 years he has declined in line with the team as a whole, but he is still a top player who offers a great deal of attacking impetus on the pitch. So much of United's attacking play begins with Evra, and he is so comfortable in possession.
For anybody who is interested here are some comparable stats for left-backs from last season. I posted these in a seperate thread, check out Maynor Figueroa...interesting to say the least.
If you choose to trust statistics then anyone can see Evra is still a force. I never understand the constant praise for Ashley Cole. He is one of the most overrated players of the Premier League era. Baines is a decent player and would provide a different skill set to Evra. For me though he is too pedestrian for the top end level, and he also loses possession too cheaply.
I really don't see the point in buying a player like Baines who is not an upgrade or direct replacement for Evra. If he is a replacement then I will be stunned. Look at the current list of hot property in this position Alba, Alaba, Coentrao, Marcelo, Perreira....and Baines is far from this level.
Ashley Cole was very poor for the last two years but then recently he just turned it around and simply became a fecking machine.I guess a some rotation with Bertrand finally did help him a lot, playing non stop can have effects on any player.
But to say he is one of the most over rated players in the PL era is utter bullshit.
But to say he is one of the most over rated players in the PL era is utter bullshit.
Going forward, Baines does have much more to offer in terms of end product. In his last two seasons, he's scored 5 in 42 and 7 in 44. That doesn't even take into consideration that he can put in one hell of a cross and contributes with his set piece delivery. Edit, according to soccernet - 12 assists the last two seasons.
I'm not saying that he is a 'better' player than Evra at this point. They are different types. That said, I wouldn't be upset having an option who is (at least statistically speaking) most definitely in his 'prime'.
I'm not saying that he is a 'better' player than Evra at this point. They are different types. That said, I wouldn't be upset having an option who is (at least statistically speaking) most definitely in his 'prime'.
Imo Baines would be a better player to have at O.T against weaker sides - but away in difficult games I would prefer Evra
I do agree. With our right footed wingers, our left back often gets the space to overlap on the edge, which is the perfect position to deliver a cross - something in which Baines excels at.
I actually flirted with the idea of Hodgson playing Baines as a left winger at the Euros... Yes, risky... but how bad could it have been.
Fair enough but I don't feel it is. His time at Chelsea has been a huge anti-climax for me. When he was at Arsenal he was an exciting, dynamic full back who looked comfortable up against the world's best players. He also had a massive hunger that suggested he was going to fulfill this obvious potential.
At Chelsea that promise just left him for me. He was dire in his first two seasons...absolutely dire. Ironically when Mourinho left he started to improve his form and this continued under Hiddink and Ancelotti. Since 2010 though he has regressed arguably more than Evra, always a superior attacking-full back anyway. I agree his form picked up during the second half of last season and rotation has probably played a part in this.
The thing with Cole is this...I've never understood the clamour to suggest he is "the best left-back in the world." He perhaps had a case back in 2005 but since the emergence of Evra he was always second best in my book. He is weak in the air, his dribbling ability is nowhere near the level of the world's best, his positional play has actually been suspect for a while (he's the weakest link in Chelsea's back line). His tackling is overrated (the English clamour to applaude slide tackling is particularly relevant with Cole).
He's overrated and has been for a number of years primarlily by the English media but also by a great deal of English supporters. Evra has always been more talented than Cole, and if you look at the premier left-backs in world football now Alba, Coentrao, Marcelo, ..Cole isn't as good as these boys.
I don't expect you to agree with me, it's just my opinion. But bullshit is easily served up all over the place, at least I've given you my reasoning.
I agree fully with this. While Baines may be statistically more productive, that is ignoring Evras attacking contribution in supporting the winger both with the ball and without it in the pressure he applies and space he takes up. In criticising Evra for his positioning on the odd goal which goes down as a lapse in concentration on his part, it's also regularly missing the point that his instructions are to obviously apply pressure to the opposition winger and in doing so force territory in midfield.
At the end of the day, who really cares who the better player is between Evra and Baines? I seriously doubt we are looking to sell Patrice Evra this summer. Personally, I prefer Evra but it's difficult to ignore the fact he is 31, has had two indifferent years compared to his peak, has been run into the ground by the club with constant starts and is someone who will need replacing in the not to distant future. Baines does not need to be better than Evra to meet the requirements of what we need and there's not many better left backs out there who are available.
Fergie either does not think Fabio is a left back(most of his first team appearances have been right side) and/or does not think he is ready to deputise regularly for Evra yet so we need a new full back. Baines is Premiership proven, a good player in his own right and would undeniably make us stronger in the position. I also think he would help us get more out of Evra for the next couple of seasons and what's more he would probably be available for a reasonable price. More I have thought about this the more I think it would be a good signing for the club. Signing a youngster would be pointless with Fabio around.
Fergie either does not think Fabio is a left back(most of his first team appearances have been right side) and/or does not think he is ready to deputise regularly for Evra yet so we need a new full back. Baines is Premiership proven, a good player in his own right and would undeniably make us stronger in the position. I also think he would help us get more out of Evra for the next couple of seasons and what's more he would probably be available for a reasonable price. More I have thought about this the more I think it would be a good signing for the club. Signing a youngster would be pointless with Fabio around.
Evra great going forward, but he doesn't end up with the end product much.
That's totally fine; whats the point of having a winger if he's not taking on the majority of the crosses?
In attack, Evra's role is carrying the ball forward and linking up with Nani, and when in great positions putting in a delivery. For the first 2, I struggle to believe Baines would be better at them, and whilst he would be better at putting in the deliveries I think the winger should take at least 80%+ of them anyways.
Evra is not the type of full back with an end product. He's the one who gets the ball into the advanced areas, and then slinks back to cover for the break. Very effective. His duty is not to cross, and none of those stats really show what he does provide going forward.
Don;t forget Saha and Howard.
I think his end product is overstated. He has one more goal than Evra and despite having many more assists, he's taking their set-pieces with players in his team who can actually head a ball. Would we give him set piece duty when we have Nani in the team?
If he's not taking set-pieces, than we'll basically be paying a lot of money for not much improvement.
As far as I can tell they do.
I'm with the people here who aren't sure of signing him. It depends on the price really, but unless we can get him for an absolute bargain then I don't really want him. We may need cover for Evra, but it's not an area so critical that we need to spend big on it. Based on last season, he would be in the team ahead of Evra himself, but there's no guarantee that Evra won't improve. Even if he doesn't reach his very best again, I can see him improving and being a fair bit better than Baines again.
Fergie wants him on board before the pre-season tour according to the Mirror.
I'm looking at the Man in the Mirror and I'm asking him to change his (bullshitting) ways.
Why wouldn't we? Nani's corners are terrible. Baines is a great crosser. It's comfortably the main asset he would bring to the team for me.
the Baines deal doesnt make sense to me
he's decent but at 15 million plus we'd be getting ripped off
Evra is on the slide but is still a better player than Baines
we should be looking for the next Evra/fabio coentrao/Cole
he's decent but at 15 million plus we'd be getting ripped off
Evra is on the slide but is still a better player than Baines
we should be looking for the next Evra/fabio coentrao/Cole
I like Baines but 15 million for a good, not so young anymore full-back is way too much.