Lance Armstrong to be charged with doping offences - Washington Post

He needs to lose everything so that other people get the message. Otherwise the lesson will be you can cheat, make millions, weather a bit of a storm and then keep all the dosh.

Unless there were doping stipulations in the commercial contracts he signed, I doubt anyone could get their money back. Besides, his doping wasn't known - they got value for the cash they paid him.

And sporting organizations have no legal basis for claiming money from ex-participants in their sport. They could sue, I suppose, but on what basis? They'd have to sue everybody.
 
Idk why, even before the whole doping thing came out I always thought he was a prick.

Eventhough at the time he had a very heroic story.
 
Good overview on 5Live tonight for those of us not au fait with the cycling world. Available as a podcast they said.
 
I don't care that he was doping. I suspected he was all along and it didn't bother me then either.

It isn't like he is Ben Johnson and cranking while nobody else was and cheated Carl Lewis out of his glory. Oh wait...

Carl Lewis was doping, and so was everyone who Lance was competing against.
 
I don't care that he was doping. I suspected he was all along and it didn't bother me then either.

It isn't like he is Ben Johnson and cranking while nobody else was and cheated Carl Lewis out of his glory. Oh wait...

Carl Lewis was doping, and so was everyone who Lance was competing against.

Great argument...Say you don't care and that's your right.

But please don't attempt to defend him. He wasn't just doping, he has at the pointy edge of the needle.

Everyone wasn't doing it, the year Cadel Evans won it, the overall speed of the tour and more importantly the speed of the mountain climbs came right down(of course the mountains were where Lance destroyed most of this opponents with Herculean efforts - efforts that we all know are a sham now).

Everyone doping doesn't even the field out - everyone wasn't on the same quality of dope, and everyone didn't react to it equally.
 
Plus, I read an article where they said that the smaller teams couldn't afford to be as thorough in their drug programmes (ie- paying for top doctors to monitor everything). and had their riders taking all sorts of shit.
 
Doping's been in cycling since before the war. But to the extent Armstrong went about it, even forcing his teamates to dope, hasn't. Blood doping is dangerous. He was putting lives at risk whilst he claimed to be saving others.
 
Great argument...Say you don't care and that's your right.

But please don't attempt to defend him. He wasn't just doping, he has at the pointy edge of the needle.

Everyone wasn't doing it, the year Cadel Evans won it, the overall speed of the tour and more importantly the speed of the mountain climbs came right down(of course the mountains were where Lance destroyed most of this opponents with Herculean efforts - efforts that we all know are a sham now).

Everyone doping doesn't even the field out - everyone wasn't on the same quality of dope, and everyone didn't react to it equally.

are they are sham? Was riding away from a convicted drug cheats in Pantani or Ulrich a sham? Both where on expansive teams with large incomes just like Lance. I can't help but feel with every dog coming out now, it's effectively started to vindicate lance on what he did. The headlines are not just that lance was a serial offender, but that virtually every big name in the sport was and it's no longer just destroying Lance's reputation. In the last two years alone we've seen both Frank Schleck and Alberto Contador find themselves on the wrong end of a positive drug result. How long before Cadel Evans, Andy Schleck,Bradley Wiggins, Thor hushovd, Mark Cavendish and Tony Martin are suspected or convicted?
 
Armstrong steps down as Chariman of the Livestrong campaign.

Nike have also now temrinated his contract.

His fall from grace is almost complete it would seem.
 
Armstrong steps down as Chariman of the Livestrong campaign.

Nike have also now temrinated his contract.

His fall from grace is almost complete it would seem.

Will he now confess to his crimes? I would guess not as it would open the door for a plethora of law suits.
 
Armstrong steps down as Chariman of the Livestrong campaign.

Nike have also now temrinated his contract.

His fall from grace is almost complete it would seem.

I wonder if they'll continue their livestrong clothing line. I would assume so, but who knows. Just very much seems he's now trying to distance his cycling and cancer research as far away from one another as possible, but Nike with livestrong on it just further extends that brand.
 
Great argument...Say you don't care and that's your right.

But please don't attempt to defend him. He wasn't just doping, he has at the pointy edge of the needle.

Everyone wasn't doing it, the year Cadel Evans won it, the overall speed of the tour and more importantly the speed of the mountain climbs came right down(of course the mountains were where Lance destroyed most of this opponents with Herculean efforts - efforts that we all know are a sham now).

Everyone doping doesn't even the field out - everyone wasn't on the same quality of dope, and everyone didn't react to it equally.

This is a loser mentality. Instead of looking for ways to rationalize what and how Lance did what he did. Just accept he was the best ever. He did everything better, trained better, rode better, strategized better and he doped better.

I hardly think you will find ANY of Lance's competitors come out and say "waaaa he doped better than me" because that is just straight pathetic.

The reality here, and people really need to pay attention to this point, doping is always going to exist. It will ALWAYS be at least one or two steps ahead of controls. People who win at this level will *almost* always be gaming the system in some regard.

The problem then is, how do you proceed. It is impossible to keep a level playing field. It just is not possible. I don't know how it should be resolved. We can continue to cling to the illusion that doping control works and that the playing field is level, or we can let things go where they are going to go and allow the individual athletes to determine what risks they are willing to take with their bodies.

The most exciting tour stage I have ever seen was the Floyd Landis come back in 2006 I think it was. So how do we proceed? Again, I don't know, but right now it is a farce. This is all about selling copy and destroying an image. The media never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
This is a loser mentality. Instead of looking for ways to rationalize what and how Lance did what he did. Just accept he was the best ever. He did everything better, trained better, rode better, strategized better and he doped better.

I hardly think you will find ANY of Lance's competitors come out and say "waaaa he doped better than me" because that is just straight pathetic.

The most exciting tour stage I have ever seen was the Floyd Landis come back in 2006 I think it was. So how do we proceed? Again, I don't know, but right now it is a farce. This is all about selling copy and destroying an image. The media never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

You have to be American right?

You do realise that some people react significantly better to the same doses of EPO than others? Also many riders on the tour bitched that their teams were not pursuing a strong enough doping program.

I do not admire Lance Armstrong for being genetically predisposed to reacting brilliantly to EPO. I do not admire Lance Armstrong for being the most aggressive in pursuing a doping program. I fail to see the romance in that.

You proceed by making the punishment for doping not worth the crime.

That a serial American drugs cheat stood on the Olympic podium for the men's 100mtrs this year is an absolute disgrace.
 
Armstrong steps down as Chariman of the Livestrong campaign.

Nike have also now temrinated his contract.

His fall from grace is almost complete it would seem.
I thought Nike had gone completely bonkers there.
 
I can't help but feel with every dog coming out now, it's effectively started to vindicate lance on what he did.

This is a loser mentality. Instead of looking for ways to rationalize what and how Lance did what he did. Just accept he was the best ever. He did everything better, trained better, rode better, strategized better and he doped better.

I hardly think you will find ANY of Lance's competitors come out and say "waaaa he doped better than me" because that is just straight pathetic.

The reality here, and people really need to pay attention to this point, doping is always going to exist. It will ALWAYS be at least one or two steps ahead of controls. People who win at this level will *almost* always be gaming the system in some regard.

This is all about selling copy and destroying an image. The media never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

Utterly delusional. Armstrong is one of the biggest cheats and frauds in sporting history and he should blame himself for his disgrace.
 
Lance can reinvent himself. He just needs to come clean, go to prison, declare himself bankrupt and then become an ambassador for anti doping. He can earn his crust on the side by appearing in reality TV shows like 'I am a celebrity'.
 
I wonder if they'll continue their livestrong clothing line. I would assume so, but who knows. Just very much seems he's now trying to distance his cycling and cancer research as far away from one another as possible, but Nike with livestrong on it just further extends that brand.

Of course they will.

"Nike plans to continue support of the Livestrong initiatives created to unite, inspire and empower people affected by cancer."

http://nikeinc.com/press-release/news/nike-statement-on-lance-armstrong
 
They'll still sponsor his foundation because it's a great cause. I don't see anything wrong with that. He's rightly trying to distance himself from his foundation because he doesn't want his foundation to suffer from his idiotic cheating. Glad to see they've pulled sponsorship from him personally though.
 
This is a loser mentality. Instead of looking for ways to rationalize what and how Lance did what he did. Just accept he was the best ever. He did everything better, trained better, rode better, strategized better and he doped better.

I hardly think you will find ANY of Lance's competitors come out and say "waaaa he doped better than me" because that is just straight pathetic.

The reality here, and people really need to pay attention to this point, doping is always going to exist. It will ALWAYS be at least one or two steps ahead of controls. People who win at this level will *almost* always be gaming the system in some regard.

The problem then is, how do you proceed. It is impossible to keep a level playing field. It just is not possible. I don't know how it should be resolved. We can continue to cling to the illusion that doping control works and that the playing field is level, or we can let things go where they are going to go and allow the individual athletes to determine what risks they are willing to take with their bodies.

The most exciting tour stage I have ever seen was the Floyd Landis come back in 2006 I think it was. So how do we proceed? Again, I don't know, but right now it is a farce. This is all about selling copy and destroying an image. The media never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

Jesus fecking Christ. For too long they were forced to let a good story get in the way of facts.
 
Nucks, cyclists (and other sportsmen) have died from blood doping (possibly including EPO). Doping in any sport cannot be condoned, whether it leads to exciting competitions or not.

Yes, doping will always be one step ahead of the testers. To me, that is exactly why people need to come down on dopers like a sack of bricks once it is discovered. For cycling, the statute of limitations needs to be removed - it took over a decade for an unreliable test for EPO to be discovered, outside the statute of limitations - that's what testing is up against.
 
Utterly delusional. Armstrong is one of the biggest cheats and frauds in sporting history and he should blame himself for his disgrace.

I don't quite understand why you brought me in to this, i'm not defending lance, I just stated that with every cheat now coming out of the wood work, it's effectively vindicating him to the eyes of the public as it says, well if everybody else was on it, it's fine. It's not the right way to think, but that's how people are seeing it.
 
I'm not sure it's possible to come back from this. Not only has he lied time and time again, he's committed perjury. Lance Armstrong will go to prison. Chances are he'll come back and do a Marion Jones - admitting to everything, and trying to get people onside. Personally I blame the USADA more than Armstrong. He can dope all he wants, it's then up to USADA to catch him, but they chose not to.

Sadly, cycling will never have a clean reputation, and it will affect future generations. Even Bradley Wiggins now, you wonder, was he completely clean? How can you know?
 
I'm not sure it's possible to come back from this. Not only has he lied time and time again, he's committed perjury. Lance Armstrong will go to prison. Chances are he'll come back and do a Marion Jones - admitting to everything, and trying to get people onside. Personally I blame the USADA more than Armstrong. He can dope all he wants, it's then up to USADA to catch him, but they chose not to.

Sadly, cycling will never have a clean reputation, and it will affect future generations. Even Bradley Wiggins now, you wonder, was he completely clean? How can you know?

To be honest, I think most people had a suspicion he was using drugs, but most didn't want to admit it because it ruined what was an unbelievable (in the end it was) story. For cycling though this is only the tip of a sport riddled with drug cheats throughout its history. You can do so much to repair a reputation, but even a single scandal with a low level rider removes that notion.

All I want to know though is whether Lance was using for his last two tours in 09 and 10. For me like Schumacher in f1 now, that is the ultimate sign of a competitor. Two blokes with nothing to gain who do it for the thrill of the competition. It doesn't make up for the lying and the cheating during the 7, but I want to know if he could have done it without the drugs. Given the level of competition in both those years, at his age and what he achieved 'particularly in 09' then to me it would show that he was still one of the best regardless.
 
I don't quite understand why you brought me in to this, i'm not defending lance, I just stated that with every cheat now coming out of the wood work, it's effectively vindicating him to the eyes of the public as it says, well if everybody else was on it, it's fine. It's not the right way to think, but that's how people are seeing it.

The problem is that even if everyone 'takes', not everyone can afford the same programs, products, amounts as for example Lance Armstrong did. Yes, everyone in that category of cyclists (climbers, general classification riders) were on doping, but noone was probably doped at the same level as Armstrong an his complete team.

Now, whatever you think of the doping itself, in my opinion the worst thing that has come out in this whole case is the thuggery from Armstrong and his cronies. The threats, intimidation, pressure towards colleagues, opponents, journalists, etc. They were simply mob practices.

I'm not sure it's possible to come back from this. Not only has he lied time and time again, he's committed perjury. Lance Armstrong will go to prison. Chances are he'll come back and do a Marion Jones - admitting to everything, and trying to get people onside. Personally I blame the USADA more than Armstrong. He can dope all he wants, it's then up to USADA to catch him, but they chose not to.

Sadly, cycling will never have a clean reputation, and it will affect future generations. Even Bradley Wiggins now, you wonder, was he completely clean? How can you know?

I heard a journalist this week say that on average, they're pushing 15% less Watts uphill in the peleton compared to 10 years ago. I'd say that's a clear indication that it's going in the right direction.

Of course it's not clean yet, and just like any sport it probably never will. But at least in cycling they're trying very hard to kick it out. Unlike many other sports
 
Bit of a bombshell today with Rabobank leaving the sport.
You are a bank being vilified for your greed and fecking the world economy. So you attempt to uplift your image by sponsoring a bunch of even greedier, more corrupt, cheating scumbags.
 
You are a bank being vilified for your greed and fecking the world economy. So you attempt to uplift your image by sponsoring a bunch of even greedier, more corrupt, cheating scumbags.

What?! They're Chelsea's new shirt sponsor???
 
the most drug-tested athlete in history and he never failed a test.

Well, the problem is that the only way that you could get caught in those days was to be either stupid or careless. If you organised everything well, there was no risk of getting caught.
 
It doesn't look good for Lance, now does it? I've always defended him, so it is very sad to see what has happened during the past few months, however, I would still like to see a positive, legitimate, test.

Regardless if he loses his titles or not, regardless if he is proven to be a cheat or not, I will always be a huge Armstrong fan. The reason behind that is his amazing work for cancer patients, I've had two grandparents killed by it and several other more distant relatives. Lance was also the sole reason I got into exercising and started working out - when he teamed up with Nike+ I bought a pair of shoes, an ipod, a yellow bracelet and started to run - sounds fecking cheesy, but it is what happened and what got me "back on the bike".

So, the drug use does not really concern me, the only thing which concerns me is what Lance Armstrong inspired me to do.

Only my two, honest, cents.