I never really followed cycling but after his battle with cancer and then winning all those Tour De France's, I thought wow what a brave man, I had no idea it was all fuelled by doping, after reading this thread I am both shocked and quite annoyed.
Lance Armstrong to be charged with doping offences - Washington Post
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
- Start date
It seems that he is a very focused guy and that he will do whatever it takes to get what he wants.
It's a shame these guys won't get the sort of credit they deserve if the titles do end up going to them.
If Armstrong's titles end up going to another cyclist who had also tested positive for doping at any point then it will be a complete sham in my eyes.
Does the cycling world care what this relatively new American committee that's trying to decided who should have Tour De France titles has to say? I don't know anything about cycling really, but I can image the Tour De France organizers being reluctant to strip titles and give them to 8th place finishers while destroying the marketability of some of the biggest names in their sport.
Viva Greg LeMond!!
Tiger Woods - cnut
Michael Schumacher - cnut
Sir Alex Ferguson - bit of a cnut
Messi - Bit of a cnut
Ronaldo - cnut
Michael Jordan - bit of a cnut
Ayrton Senna - cnut
Zidane - bit of a cnut
Ryan Giggs - Massive cnut
Surprises me that people still don't see the pattern emerging between the very elite in their sports. To be the best you have to have that drive and passion and honestly, be a cnut about it. That arrogance is what makes these people so good. One track mind and all that bullshit. Willing to do what other's wont
Can we give something to Stephen Roche? He always looked honest to me!
What a pile of steaming shit. No one is judging Armstrong on his cycling style, relations with the media, shagging or preening. He's a fecking cheat.
Why don't you look at the last post on the last page you bell end
So if all the leaders are doping then why shouldn't the next guy?
If you see that everyone ahead of you is doing it surely the only way to compete with them is to do the same and level the playing field? It's a tough one to call really.
If you see that everyone ahead of you is doing it surely the only way to compete with them is to do the same and level the playing field? It's a tough one to call really.
It's funny, but I've thought this myself for some time, particularly in the Olympics. However, I'd officially allow anyone take anything they want - bingo! It's a level playing field again. It wouldn't of course be just about endeavour and hard work anymore, the original ideals of all these great sporting competitions would be gone for good - but as we have it at the moment, you have unlikely athletes in all sports breaking records in unlikely circumstances, and the first reaction always seems to be that the athlete must be taking something undetectable.
It would be an Olympics or a Tour for the pharmacologists, to see who is best at developing performance-enhancing drugs.
The human body simply isn't capable of becoming continually stronger and faster ad infinitum over such a short period of time - at some point, without drugs to assist, a limit has to be reached. We are only flesh and blood, not machines. Evolution may do it eventually, but that tends to take rather a long time.
But different people respond differently to drugs. If you were half a second quicker than me in a race and we both took the same drugs, they might make you half a second quicker and me 2 seconds quicker, thus destroying your natural advantage over me.
Well, you are right of course - but all successful athletes have a natural advantage, by the fact that they have a certain body type which gives them the raw material to work on to excel in their chosen sport. I'm 5ft 1 and so I'd have always been a rubbish basketball player, no matter how hard I trained.
No-one says that Bolt shouldn't be able to win because he's so much taller than his rivals and therefore has longer legs!
That's the reason Landis gave for starting doping. When he saw how Armstrong did it with impunity even when he got caught, he gave up hope of winning it clean.
The problem is that it's simply irresponsible to allow doping. People do die from it.
He's got a triple crown already! Some golden era that was for Irish cycling, with Roche and Kelly tearing up Europe.
Yes I know that can happen, but at least athletes would be making a free choice, unlike the poor USSR women back in the 60s. Right now, it seems some people can take substances and manage to get away with it, and that makes a whole mockery of any sporting competition. Why bother wasting the money staging these things? It's all meaningless.
Let's make something clear, which has up till now not been mentioned in the entire thread. The main evidence against LA are the 10 (!) eye witness accounts from former teammates at the USPostal team. One includes Jonathan Vaughters, the most respected team leader (Garmin) in professional cycling. LA basically is cornered; even his team of lawyers will have a tough job discrediting 10 witnesses.
Another thing that bugs me... The Bradley Wiggins rant at questions about doping at the TdF. Why didn't he just reply 'no' when asked if he used doping? Instead he gave that cnut rant, followed by an elebarote interview the next day on reasons why he would never use doping. All to familiar, just the kind of replies that LA used to give. I still can't find a single interview from BW where he specifically states that he has not used doping.
Another thing that bugs me... The Bradley Wiggins rant at questions about doping at the TdF. Why didn't he just reply 'no' when asked if he used doping? Instead he gave that cnut rant, followed by an elebarote interview the next day on reasons why he would never use doping. All to familiar, just the kind of replies that LA used to give. I still can't find a single interview from BW where he specifically states that he has not used doping.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-10/former-lance-armstrong-teammate-describes-doping/4253740
Interview with LA's one time team mate and accuser, Tyler Hamilton. Sure he has a book to sell, but it is a little interesting.
Interview with LA's one time team mate and accuser, Tyler Hamilton. Sure he has a book to sell, but it is a little interesting.
Has USADA released the full evidence yet as they said they would?
The problem with this was summed up pretty well by Jonathan Vaughters, self confessed doper:
For full interview go here
UCI's u-turn on the matter suggest they've been shown something, but as of yet no full public disclosure. We'll just have to be patient I guess.
The whole matter has arisen because of the Federal investigation in whether the US Postal team used government money to buy drugs. (US Postal is owned by the US government. Buying illegal drugs with government money is a crime in the US.)
When the feds concluded there was insufficient evidence to charge the (ex)US Postal team they handed there evidence over to the USADA. The evidence contains eye-witness accounts of doping within the team. Hence this matter has arisen.
When the feds concluded there was insufficient evidence to charge the (ex)US Postal team they handed there evidence over to the USADA. The evidence contains eye-witness accounts of doping within the team. Hence this matter has arisen.
Seems UCI has not received evidence from USADA yet and will only make a call on the case after their management committee meets 19-20 Sept. Seems all UCI said is that they won't appeal USADA's decision unless the evidence presented to them warrants an appeal. So they've not made a u-turn at all as they've not got the evidence yet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19527032
Surely buying illegal drugs is a crime with any money in the US.
EPO is already thought to have killed a worrying amount of young cyclists. Making doping legal is just a crazy idea, for many reasons.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/feb/16/cycling.cycling1
They haven't received the full dossier but it seems increasingly unlikely they'll appeal to the CAS so, like I said, they seem to have received/heard/seen something. That's at least an L-turn in my book.
Ah see what you mean.
The investigation was whether government money was used.
BREAKING NEWS 11:31 AM ET
Lance Armstrong at Center of Cycling’s Most Sophisticated Doping Program, Officials Charge
The United States Anti-Doping Agency announced Wednesday that it would soon make public its doping file on Lance Armstrong and that the file would include details of what the agency is calling the most sophisticated and professional doping program in recent sports history.
The agency said its dossier on Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France winner and cancer survivor who denies ever doping, will include sworn testimony from 26 people, including nearly a dozen former teammates on the United States Postal Service team. Those Postal Service teammates have admitted their own doping and say that Armstrong doped, encouraged doping and administered doping products on the team, the agency said on Wednesday.
The teammates who came forward and submitted sworn affidavits included George Hincapie, one of the most respected American riders in recent history, Levi Leipheimer, Tyler Hamilton and others who are among the best cyclists of Armstrong’s generation.
Their testimony is expected to be the most widespread effort to break the code of silence in cycling that has existed for decades and perpetuated the pervasive doping in the sport.
The agency, which said its file on Armstrong consists of more than a thousand pages of evidence that will be made public Wednesday afternoon on its Web site, will detail the sanctions imposed upon those riders for admitting doping.
The agency said the evidence reveals “conclusive and undeniable proof that brings to the light of day for the first time this systemic, sustained and highly professionalized team-run doping conspiracy.”
“The U.S.P.S. Team doping conspiracy was professionally designed to groom and pressure athletes to use dangerous drugs, to evade detection, to ensure its secrecy and ultimately gain an unfair competitive advantage through superior doping practices,” the agency said. “A program organized by individuals who thought they were above the rules and who still play a major and active role in sport today.”
The evidence against Armstrong features financial payments, e-mails, scientific analyses and laboratory test results that show Armstrong was doping and was the kingpin of the doping conspiracy, the agency said. Several years of Armstrong’s blood values showed evidence of doping, said a person involved in the case who did not want his name used because the results have not been revealed yet.
“It’s shocking, it’s disappointing,” said Travis Tygart, chief executive of the antidoping agency. “But we did our job.”
On Tuesday, Armstrong’s legal team tried to preemptively discredit Usada’s report in a letter to the antidoping agency’s lawyer, Bill Bock.
Timothy J. Herman, one of Armstrong’s lawyers, called the case a farce. “Usada, the prosecutor, now pretends to issue its own ‘reasoned decision,’ even though there was no judge, no jury and no hearing,” Herman said in the letter.
When Armstrong decided in August not to contest Usada’s charges, he agreed to forgo an arbitration hearing at which the evidence against him would have been aired, possibly publicly.
Armstrong, through his spokesman, said Wednesday morning that he had no comment on the Usada report.
Under the World Anti-Doping Code, the antidoping agency must submit its evidence against Armstrong to the International Cycling Union, which has 21 days from the receipt of the case file to appeal the matter to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Once it makes its decision, the World Anti-Doping Agency will then have 21 days in which to appeal.
The cycling union and the World Anti-Doping Agency are expected to receive the Armstrong file Wednesday, before it is made public.
The antidoping agency has been gathering evidence on Armstrong for the past several years, with its efforts increasing after Floyd Landis, the 2006 Tour winner who was stripped of the title for doping, contacted Tygart in 2010. Landis told Tygart that he, Armstrong and others on the Postal Service team were involved in systematic doping supported by the team.
Lance Armstrong at Center of Cycling’s Most Sophisticated Doping Program, Officials Charge
The United States Anti-Doping Agency announced Wednesday that it would soon make public its doping file on Lance Armstrong and that the file would include details of what the agency is calling the most sophisticated and professional doping program in recent sports history.
The agency said its dossier on Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France winner and cancer survivor who denies ever doping, will include sworn testimony from 26 people, including nearly a dozen former teammates on the United States Postal Service team. Those Postal Service teammates have admitted their own doping and say that Armstrong doped, encouraged doping and administered doping products on the team, the agency said on Wednesday.
The teammates who came forward and submitted sworn affidavits included George Hincapie, one of the most respected American riders in recent history, Levi Leipheimer, Tyler Hamilton and others who are among the best cyclists of Armstrong’s generation.
Their testimony is expected to be the most widespread effort to break the code of silence in cycling that has existed for decades and perpetuated the pervasive doping in the sport.
The agency, which said its file on Armstrong consists of more than a thousand pages of evidence that will be made public Wednesday afternoon on its Web site, will detail the sanctions imposed upon those riders for admitting doping.
The agency said the evidence reveals “conclusive and undeniable proof that brings to the light of day for the first time this systemic, sustained and highly professionalized team-run doping conspiracy.”
“The U.S.P.S. Team doping conspiracy was professionally designed to groom and pressure athletes to use dangerous drugs, to evade detection, to ensure its secrecy and ultimately gain an unfair competitive advantage through superior doping practices,” the agency said. “A program organized by individuals who thought they were above the rules and who still play a major and active role in sport today.”
The evidence against Armstrong features financial payments, e-mails, scientific analyses and laboratory test results that show Armstrong was doping and was the kingpin of the doping conspiracy, the agency said. Several years of Armstrong’s blood values showed evidence of doping, said a person involved in the case who did not want his name used because the results have not been revealed yet.
“It’s shocking, it’s disappointing,” said Travis Tygart, chief executive of the antidoping agency. “But we did our job.”
On Tuesday, Armstrong’s legal team tried to preemptively discredit Usada’s report in a letter to the antidoping agency’s lawyer, Bill Bock.
Timothy J. Herman, one of Armstrong’s lawyers, called the case a farce. “Usada, the prosecutor, now pretends to issue its own ‘reasoned decision,’ even though there was no judge, no jury and no hearing,” Herman said in the letter.
When Armstrong decided in August not to contest Usada’s charges, he agreed to forgo an arbitration hearing at which the evidence against him would have been aired, possibly publicly.
Armstrong, through his spokesman, said Wednesday morning that he had no comment on the Usada report.
Under the World Anti-Doping Code, the antidoping agency must submit its evidence against Armstrong to the International Cycling Union, which has 21 days from the receipt of the case file to appeal the matter to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Once it makes its decision, the World Anti-Doping Agency will then have 21 days in which to appeal.
The cycling union and the World Anti-Doping Agency are expected to receive the Armstrong file Wednesday, before it is made public.
The antidoping agency has been gathering evidence on Armstrong for the past several years, with its efforts increasing after Floyd Landis, the 2006 Tour winner who was stripped of the title for doping, contacted Tygart in 2010. Landis told Tygart that he, Armstrong and others on the Postal Service team were involved in systematic doping supported by the team.
Would like to see how anyone can defend him after this.
Lance Armstrong is the Jimmy Saville of cycling. Everyone knows he's been at it for years.
They're all owning up now, one after the other.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444799904578048672603746526.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444799904578048672603746526.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5
Wow that's in depth. Will wait for a nice summary.
Can he be sent to jail for this? Surely it's fraud with all the money has won?
-NOTHING Lance says is credible...
-All his teammates spoke about the systematic doping in the team
-Armstrong tried to intimidate witnesses
-Obvious money trail between Armstrong and the team doctor
-He paid off the UCI
-Dodgy bastard doesn't have a leg to stand on
-He is guilty without a shadow of a doubt(even his biggest fans - I am one of them, can't hide from the truth any longer)
Looks like it is all over for Lance. He now has no credible defence. Amazing that it has taken so long to come out in retrospect.