Lance Armstrong to be charged with doping offences - Washington Post

Colin129 said:
I don't doubt it's entertainment value, but presumably it's a pack of lies, like his entire cycling career.
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This is absolute rubbish. Taking performance enhancing drugs do not make you a super athlete. This quote from Alexander Karelin is quite fitting for Lance Armstrong. "I train every day of my life as they have never trained a day in theirs."

Steroids/blood doping are not short cuts to success. They allow an athlete to train harder. They don't make it easier to train harder. They allow the individual to push further and to get better results from their unbelievably difficult, mind numbingly painful training sessions.

The whole thing is a farce. Lance Armstrong is still the greatest cyclist of his generation. He is probably the greatest cyclist in the history of the sport to date.

Lance Armstrong won all those TDF's. The only taint on them, is that the entire sport is tainted and blood doping/steroids are systemic.

Lance wins doped in a doped race. Lance also wins clean, in a clean race. What we should do is asterix the tour for every year a doper won. That would leave about 16 clean tours in its history!
 
I hope for your sake you're emotional and not actually that confused.
 
Nucks said:
This is absolute rubbish. Taking performance enhancing drugs do not make you a super athlete. This quote from Alexander Karelin is quite fitting for Lance Armstrong. "I train every day of my life as they have never trained a day in theirs."
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They do make you a super-athlete. Just Google "effects of epo on cycling" or something. It boosts your power output by a substantial amount.

Nucks said:
Steroids/blood doping are not short cuts to success. They allow an athlete to train harder. They don't make it easier to train harder. They allow the individual to push further and to get better results from their unbelievably difficult, mind numbingly painful training sessions.
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Drugs to train? They also blood dope before the race, in order to maximise the output of the doping. It's not just training.

On Tyler Hamilton:

Hamilton explains that his own drug use began before Armstrong joined the team in 1998 but that Armstrong provided him with EPO shortly before the 1999 Tour de France.
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Nucks said:
The whole thing is a farce. Lance Armstrong is still the greatest cyclist of his generation. He is probably the greatest cyclist in the history of the sport to date.
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Maybe he just doped the hardest? And tipped off his rivals? Threatened those who wouldn't dope? Threatened whistleblowers?

Nucks said:
Lance Armstrong won all those TDF's. The only taint on them, is that the entire sport is tainted and blood doping/steroids are systemic.
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The whole sport isn't tainted. There are cyclists out there who have never been caught nor suspected of doping.

Did he win? Well, he cheated, and he dodged the drug tests. It was fairly obvious it wasn't a level playing field, so quite frankly, it would be impossible to tell if he won on sporting ability. So I don't think he won - not by any stretch of the imagination.

Nucks said:
Lance wins doped in a doped race. Lance also wins clean, in a clean race.
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In all honesty the number of lies he has told suggests he could have been doping all the way. Nobody knows whether he's done a clean race before.

Nucks said:
What we should do is asterix the tour for every year a doper won. That would leave about 16 clean tours in its history!
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And that shows exactly why Lance Armstrong cannot be forgiven nor defended - he's cycling's biggest offender.
 
Nucks said:
This is absolute rubbish. Taking performance enhancing drugs do not make you a super athlete. This quote from Alexander Karelin is quite fitting for Lance Armstrong. "I train every day of my life as they have never trained a day in theirs."

Steroids/blood doping are not short cuts to success. They allow an athlete to train harder. They don't make it easier to train harder. They allow the individual to push further and to get better results from their unbelievably difficult, mind numbingly painful training sessions.
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That's all true, except for EPO, which can make a race horse out of a donkey.

The whole thing is a farce. Lance Armstrong is still the greatest cyclist of his generation. He is probably the greatest cyclist in the history of the sport to date.
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Even if he was clean thorughout his whole career he wouldn't be close to the greatest cyclist in the history of the sport. Have a look at what Eddy Merckx won. And how he won it.

There's more in cycling than the Tour de France, you know...
Even Armstrong himself wouldn't dream of placing himself next to Merckx, let alone above...

Lance Armstrong won all those TDF's. The only taint on them, is that the entire sport is tainted and blood doping/steroids are systemic.
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Still doesn't mean he didn't cheat his way to those wins.

Lance wins doped in a doped race. Lance also wins clean, in a clean race. What we should do is asterix the tour for every year a doper won. That would leave about 16 clean tours in its history!
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We don't know if he would win clean. And even if the rest doped, it doesn't mean they had the means and the organisation to support them to dope so well and systematically as Armstrong did. Noone in cycling had such a professional dope system. I'm also convinced that noone in those years had a completely doped-up team behind them as well. Makes a huge difference when you see how much he gained from his strong team.

EPO only exists since the 90s. The Tours before then are pretty clean in my books. Things like amfetamines, etc that were taken before are incomparable with EPO.


And the worst thing about this whole Armstrong case are the threats, the mob practices of Armstrong and his team. It's unforgivable how he treated other riders who wanted to testify or who had enough of the doping and wanted to come clean.
 
King_Eric said:
That's all true, except for EPO, which can make a race horse out of a donkey.



Even if he was clean thorughout his whole career he wouldn't be close to the greatest cyclist in the history of the sport. Have a look at what Eddy Merckx won. And how he won it.

There's more in cycling than the Tour de France, you know...
Even Armstrong himself wouldn't dream of placing himself next to Merckx, let alone above...


Still doesn't mean he didn't cheat his way to those wins.



We don't know if he would win clean. And even if the rest doped, it doesn't mean they had the means and the organisation to support them to dope so well and systematically as Armstrong did. Noone in cycling had such a professional dope system. I'm also convinced that noone in those years had a completely doped-up team behind them as well. Makes a huge difference when you see how much he gained from his strong team.

EPO only exists since the 90s. The Tours before then are pretty clean in my books. Things like amfetamines, etc that were taken before are incomparable with EPO.


And the worst thing about this whole Armstrong case are the threats, the mob practices of Armstrong and his team. It's unforgivable how he treated other riders who wanted to testify or who had enough of the doping and wanted to come clean.
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The ignorance of most in this is amazing. So the whole debacle is caused by the joke of proper drug testing in cycling up until the last decade, but Lance is the only cyclist that has been dirty prior to UCI cleaning up their act. feck me some of the older guys should be thanking their lucky fecking stars that Lance has taken the hit on this because they've just been given a free pass.
 
mariachi-19 said:
The ignorance of most in this is amazing. So the whole debacle is caused by the joke of proper drug testing in cycling up until the last decade, but Lance is the only cyclist that has been dirty prior to UCI cleaning up their act.
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:confused: Plenty of racers have been banned for doping, not just Lance. Lance is being accused of being the biggest violator, as well as conspiring to win using doping (i.e. enforcing doping schedules on his teammates, intimidating those who speak out, etc.).

mariachi-19 said:
feck me some of the older guys should be thanking their lucky fecking stars that Lance has taken the hit on this because they've just been given a free pass.
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You would expect USADA to continue to go after other cyclists. Doping testing is such that the dopers are always way ahead of the testers (it took over a decade for EPO to be reliably detectable, outside the statute of limitations in cycling). USADA won't let-up just because they've got Lance. Lance is just one of the thousands of dopers caught by USADA: http://www.usada.org/testing-statistics

It's not a witch-hunt. Doping is just a small part of the picture.
 
mariachi-19 said:
The ignorance of most in this is amazing. So the whole debacle is caused by the joke of proper drug testing in cycling up until the last decade, but Lance is the only cyclist that has been dirty prior to UCI cleaning up their act. feck me some of the older guys should be thanking their lucky fecking stars that Lance has taken the hit on this because they've just been given a free pass.
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So Lance being outed as the biggest fraud in the history of sports is down to testing methods now? Gotta hand it to you Armstrong apologists, you're nothing if not creative.

Systematic doping came with EPO. It came with the likes of Johan Bruyneel, Lance and Michele Ferrari. Others too, but no one took it as far as US Postal, where it was as natural a part of daily operations as training and massages. As were payments, internal and external, to keep various people schtum. Other riders were on drugs but this was the only team on drugs, and the advantage that gave Lance can't be overstated. As it stands, that's Lance's legacy. Professionalizing doping and nearly ruining the sport in the process. So no one should be thanking their lucky fecking stars that Lance has taken the hit on this as if he's some random, wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time victim. Mono-balls brought this on himself by cheating on a level never seen before and hopefully never since.
 
No point guys. People how haven't turned on Armstrong by now are never going to change their minds.
 
Elliott said:
So Lance being outed as the biggest fraud in the history of sports is down to testing methods now? Gotta hand it to you Armstrong apologists, you're nothing if not creative.

Systematic doping came with EPO. It came with the likes of Johan Bruyneel, Lance and Michele Ferrari. Others too, but no one took it as far as US Postal, where it was as natural a part of daily operations as training and massages. As were payments, internal and external, to keep various people schtum. Other riders were on drugs but this was the only team on drugs, and the advantage that gave Lance can't be overstated. As it stands, that's Lance's legacy. Professionalizing doping and nearly ruining the sport in the process. So no one should be thanking their lucky fecking stars that Lance has taken the hit on this as if he's some random, wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time victim. Mono-balls brought this on himself by cheating on a level never seen before and hopefully never since.
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:rolleyes:
 
Elliott said:
So Lance being outed as the biggest fraud in the history of sports is down to testing methods now? Gotta hand it to you Armstrong apologists, you're nothing if not creative.

Systematic doping came with EPO. It came with the likes of Johan Bruyneel, Lance and Michele Ferrari. Others too, but no one took it as far as US Postal, where it was as natural a part of daily operations as training and massages. As were payments, internal and external, to keep various people schtum. Other riders were on drugs but this was the only team on drugs, and the advantage that gave Lance can't be overstated. As it stands, that's Lance's legacy. Professionalizing doping and nearly ruining the sport in the process. So no one should be thanking their lucky fecking stars that Lance has taken the hit on this as if he's some random, wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time victim. Mono-balls brought this on himself by cheating on a level never seen before and hopefully never since.
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That's fecking tasteless, cut it out.
 
As far as I'm concerned cancer jokes or swipes are out, call it a poor choice of words or whatever but i'm being serious.
 
He is a disgrace. He was idolised by many as well as an inspiration. In fact, I personally knew a cancer sufferer (who has now passed) whose hero was Armstrong. He really drew inspiration from Armstrong and Armstrong has let down a lot of people.
 
mariachi-19 said:
The ignorance of most in this is amazing. So the whole debacle is caused by the joke of proper drug testing in cycling up until the last decade, but Lance is the only cyclist that has been dirty prior to UCI cleaning up their act. feck me some of the older guys should be thanking their lucky fecking stars that Lance has taken the hit on this because they've just been given a free pass.
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I've been following and practicing (recreationally) this sport my whole life. If you have an issue with what I said, at least bring up some arguments of your own instead of just calling me ignorant. What I said are just all facts. I'm sorry if you don't like them.

I don't even know why you bring up the testing methods since Armstrong has not been found guilty based on scientific tests, but based on a large number of testimonies against him.

The list of dirty riders who have been punished the last 20 years is long, very long. They're just not always as high profile as Armstrong. And they don't keep denying and lying even when the evidence is there. That's the difference. Many have taken drugs, got caught, admitted, taken it on the chin and got on with their lives. But Armstrong just keeps making a fool of himself by acting like some comical Ali. That you appear not to know any of these other cases shows your ignorance on the subject in my opinion. really never heard of the Festina-scandal or the Fuentes case to name just two big case where many riders were implicated?
 
Lance's subtle response after returning to Austin from his Hawaii vacation:

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Back in Austin and just layin' around...
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Why are you allowed to keep all the shit you won when you've been stripped of the official victories?
 
Yes! And medals. And prize money.

It would be the same as Juventus being allowed to display all those Serie A trophies in their museum.
 
kps88 said:
Yes! And medals. And prize money.

It would be the same as Juventus being allowed to display all those Serie A trophies in their museum.
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It wouldn't. What he is displaying are the jerseys he wore, not the trophies themselves.

Those jerseys are his in the same way the shoes he wore that day are his. Think it would be strange for them to be taken away from him.

It would be the same as Juventus having all of their playing shirts from that season taken away.
 
Oh my bad. I thought those were yellow jerseys he was awarded for being race leader.
 
swooshboy said:
It wouldn't. What he is displaying are the jerseys he wore, not the trophies themselves.

Those jerseys are his in the same way the shoes he wore that day are his. Think it would be strange for them to be taken away from him.

It would be the same as Juventus having all of their playing shirts from that season taken away.
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Sense.
 
kps88 said:
Oh my bad. I thought those were yellow jerseys he was awarded for being race leader.
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Well, they are actually. Every day, the person who leads the GC rides in the yellow jersey and you can keep them. There are people who never won the TdF but have the yellow jerseys hanging at their place because they were leader for at least one day.

So technically, they are also a kind of trophy. If he wouldn't have been the leader in the GC, he wouldn't have had them. This is just his way of saying 'feck you all' to the world. A bit petty, but that's Lance Armstrong for you. Fits right in to all the rest of the crap he pulled.

swooshboy said:
It would be the same as Juventus having all of their playing shirts from that season taken away.
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That's not really true as well. It would be like Juventus having all of the 'champion-badges' removed from those shirts. If they have those in Italy. The yellow jersey really is a trophy, not just his normal shirt which is blue.
 
Rooney24 said:
When is this interview by the way?
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The special 90-minute Thursday night episode of Oprah's Next Chapter will air Thursday, January 17 (9:00 – 10:30 p.m. ET/PT) on OWN: Oprah Winfrey Network. In addition-the interview will be simultaneously streamed LIVE worldwide on Oprah.com.
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..
 
This is going to be a self-pitying shitfest.
The Independet has some questions for him:

1. Did you routinely dope during your career as a professional cyclist and instruct and encourage others to do the same?

2. Did you instruct your lawyers to sue anyone who accused you of doping?

3. Did you attempt to defame or question the characters of people who talked about doping in cycling?

4. Did you organise or condone the effective ejection from cycling of Christophe Bassons, the cyclist who refused to dope?

5. Have you ever paid money to cycling or anti-doping authorities? If so, why?

6. Did you accept money from sponsors while denying that you were doping?

7. Did you accept money from fundraisers, including fellow cancer survivors, while denying that you were doping?

8. Many of these people still support you, regardless of any doping. How do you feel about those who don’t?

9. How did you explain this lying to your family, or did you lie to them, too?

10. Do you have any regrets?
 
This is going to pathetic. I wish I could somehow block this from my daily reading and watching of general and sports news.

He is going to cry and try to manipulate the public once again. And I am going to cringe. I hate it already.
 
Forevergiggs said:
This is going to pathetic. I wish I could somehow block this from my daily reading and watching of general and sports news.

He is going to cry and try to manipulate the public once again. And I am going to cringe. I hate it already.
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Make no mistake - Lance Armstrong could be the Next Amercian President after Obama after this
 
Forevergiggs said:
This is going to pathetic. I wish I could somehow block this from my daily reading and watching of general and sports news.

He is going to cry and try to manipulate the public once again. And I am going to cringe. I hate it already.
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Don't watch it then.
 
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