Another thing people forget is great at 16 doesn’t mean great at 22.Garnacho plays in a much tougher league, he'd be eaten alive at that age.
Who do you have in mind here?Some of our feeble 20 year olds should look at this and think "wait a second, maybe I can't use my younger age as an excuse for my ineptitude"
Who do you have in mind here?
Another thing people forget is great at 16 doesn’t mean great at 22.
Ronaldo and Quaresma at that age and guess who was rated better. Being a good player at 19 opens up the chance of turning into an elite footballer but all depends on progression, dedication person life etc. Some players just never kick on or hit there potential early.
Usually yes, but I'd put my money on Yamal making it to decent levels, if not Messi/Ronaldo level. He's a very good decision maker and uses his brain to aid his technical skills and not the other way around. Most "next great things" at 16 who don't make it are one trick pony's that score a lot of goals at youth levels or wingers who rely primarily on pace and trick.
Barcelona cannot be trusted with development of youth players beyond a certain stage.
Pre first team - incredible. La Masia is probably one of the best, if not the best factory of top talent anywhere in the world.
First team - absolutely horrible mismanagement of young, talented players. They are immediately thrown into the fire before their bodies are fully developed, overplayed, completely overused and then never reach their potential because their bodies become completely broken. Or, if they are managed physically properly, the mental side is horrible and they are not given the space to grow from that perspective.
See: Pedri, Ansu Fati, Bojan Krkic, Gavi, Vitor Roque, Dembele, Trincao, Tobido, Halilovic etc.
Seriously, who is the last successful top class youth player in the past decade who went through the system or was signed from a young age to the first team and actually made it without mental issues or crippling injuries?
Araujo is about the only one I can think of.
I'm actually curious about this one since I was having an argument with someone else on the caf about Mainoo / Garnacho over-reliance and what type of mids / forwards we should target. Is there some research / thinking around how many minutes are appropriate for a young player's development?
I think Rashford, Messi, Greenwood were thrown to the wolves as soon as they were good to go. The old if you're good enough, you're old enough mantra. I do think minutes are mostly good. That's why we send young players out on loan and want them to play in the first team and develop. But there's such a thing as too much playtime even if their body isn't at a risk of burnout.
Seriously? I can name all the players hyped from 16-18 to be the next Messi/Ronaldo only for them to fall completely short. You'd put money on this?
What Messi/Rashford/Greenwood etc played is nothing to the absurd loads of the Barca players. Their developments were reasonable, and Messi didn't start every game, often came from the bench and was managed correctly.
Compare to Pedri, who at the age of 17 played 73 games that season for club and country. Absolutely outrageous. Then, unsurprisingly, he began to break down.
Gavi is undergoing a similar trajectory.
Ansu Fati played 50 games in his debut season as a 16 year old. Look at the results, absolutely unsurprising.
But is there some math here? Why don't more games simply translate to more experience and a better player?
Because you are still undergoing puberty/growth and your body is still changing. Having outrageous stress on your body at that age causing high risk of injury leads to some awful consequences.
He's a little older than 20 tbfMaguire
IndeedMahrez regen with more acceleration.
Yeah. I find the thread odd - can't help having the mindset of we're watching a countdown to ruin, and that's hard to celebrate.Too much workload.
Everyone seems to applaud his performances not realising it comes at the cost of his future.
Yeah. I find the thread odd - can't help having the mindset of we're watching a countdown to ruin, and that's hard to celebrate.
I have no faith in Barcelona or Spain after what they did to Pedri, who is now a shadow of himself.
Kids like this truly present a problem, however; what exactly should be done with them? He's a literal world-beating talent, and on merit would lock down that position in almost all teams on the planet right now. On the other hand, how irresponsible is it to play him, knowing the consequences down the road?
Maradona comes to mind as the one player who was fully active (and a star) at 16 who was still a top player in his mid 30s (when sober); even Pelé was broken by that age despite living a tee total life. Rooney, Cesc, Owen and basically the vast majority of teenage superstars were a broken mess well before they should've been.
It'll be more a miracle if this kid is OK by 30 than if he's as broken as those who have gone before him.
Still, it's an abnormal predicament and begs the question of how long they could limit his minutes before that itself would be inorganic.
I think a lot of clubs get blinded by exceptional technical ability and ignore the other factors involved in being ready for first team football. Plenty of teenagers are exceptionally gifted either technically or physically and absolutely justify their time on the pitch with their performances. Every so often you get 16 and 17 year olds that either have a freakish combination of both physicality and skill (eg. Rooney) or are so far beyond the norm technically (eg. Messi) that they get to play regular top level football at a very young age, but there seems to be a trend with these recent Barcelona talents where I feel like the club is so blinkered by their skill that they fail to fully consider two equally important factors:I think Rashford, Messi, Greenwood were thrown to the wolves as soon as they were good to go. The old if you're good enough, you're old enough mantra. I do think minutes are mostly good. That's why we send young players out on loan and want them to play in the first team and develop. But there's such a thing as too much playtime even if their body isn't at a risk of burnout.
They just want to beat Madrid so I don't think they want to sell he who will be their best player in a season or two. They'll probably break him in the process though.Will be sold to balance the books?
Ultimately socios would rather sell players than part of the club itself ?
He is already their best playerThey just want to beat Madrid so I don't think they want to sell he who will be their best player in a season or two. They'll probably break him in the process though.
But was Fati 'run into the ground' or was he just unlucky with injuries?I think Barcelona/Spain will run him into the ground over the next five years and he won't be relevant by the time he's 23-25. It's already happened with Ansu Fati - just look at the threads on here about him - he was the next 'Messi' and destined to be world class for the next 15 years.
It's not a cert that Yamal will go the same way but he's already playing too much elite level football considering his age.
Playing „kids“ 24/7 is asking for them to get injured. Sure, there is always luck involved, but you simply have to manage minutes. I understand Barca‘s desperation of staying competitive while being restricted in regards to transfers, but first of all that is on them and second, you cannot take it out on these kids.But was Fati 'run into the ground' or was he just unlucky with injuries?
He did his ACL, was recommended to have surgery but went against that advice at the time.But was Fati 'run into the ground' or was he just unlucky with injuries?
But were those injuries coincidence or because of the many minutes he played?Playing „kids“ 24/7 is asking for them to get injured. Sure, there is always luck involved, but you simply have to manage minutes. I understand Barca‘s desperation of staying competitive while being restricted in regards to transfers, but first of all that is on them and second, you cannot take it out on these kids.
Of course. Those are mandatory in Spain and Portugal.
Just to note Trincão is a Braga youth product, he went to Barça when he was 20.Trincao
Cheers! I really thought both countries had it in their labor law.They're not mandatory in portugal.
I think the biggest problem was (as is also the case with Pedri) that Barca are so desperate that they frequently rushed back both these players from injuries which led to multiple recurrences. Yamal is already playing an alarming number of minutes at 16 despite the fact that Barca have a 60m right winger in Raphinha who really should be sharing the load with him. You hope that he won't go down the Fati and Pedri paths in terms of injuries but its hard to have faith in Barca.But was Fati 'run into the ground' or was he just unlucky with injuries?
Fair point. Raphinha should share the load.I think the biggest problem was (as is also the case with Pedri) that Barca are so desperate that they frequently rushed back both these players from injuries which led to multiple recurrences. Yamal is already playing an alarming number of minutes at 16 despite the fact that Barca have a 60m right winger in Raphinha who really should be sharing the load with him. You hope that he won't go down the Fati and Pedri paths in terms of injuries but its hard to have faith in Barca.
On “pure talent” there’s very few who can match up to him, and even those that do, he has factors to his game they’d be hard pressed to match. He’s clearly an exceptional talent, one you wouldn’t be surprised to potentially challenge for the Ballon d’Or, if they don’t break him.I don't think he's that good yet, but obviously a massive talent.
Given his age, there's no doubt in my mind that he should be matched very carefully for the next few years, generally up until players he's 19.
On “pure talent” there’s very few who can match up to him, and even those that do, he has factors to his game they’d be hard pressed to match. He’s clearly an exceptional talent, one you wouldn’t be surprised to potentially challenge for the Ballon d’Or, if they don’t break him.
I’m more in line with @giorno with his line of thinking than the comparisons to the likes of Mahrez, who never had the decision making and clarity of when to dribble and when to pass; Yamal already does that in stride without hesitation. The hype about him is as warranted as it was for Pedri, but the fear is the path to ruin is, too.
As I said in my previous post, it’s a headache to have a player break through so young in terms of managing minutes for the fact that holding him back may well become inorganic if done incorrectly. I think I’d seek advice from the medical staff and sports scientists regarding how many minutes a growing boy should see and stick to that - I think the temptation is going to be the reliance on form, but again, that was the folly of Pedri, and you’d like to think that those handling him won’t be that dumb, for the umpteenth time.
