Likes to win big cups. Michel Salgado.
La Liga/Serie A/Bundesliga Draft
- Thread starter Marty1968
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@Gio
I understand the main criteria is league peak and not career peak, do you agree with me?
It absolutely is. Khedira has no Serie A peak as far as I'm concerned.
He looks like Tony Soprano's wife.Likes to win big cups. Michel Salgado.
Fair enough.
Wasn't planning on playing him in Seria a slot anyway and I see your point.
Damn. I was hoping he'd make it back. Super pick!
Kahn easily the greatest Bundesliga goalkeeper (Neuer blocked list)
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Kahn is easily greater than Neuer so it doesn't matter if he's on the blocked list or not.
Nope.
I also think Neuer is better even if I am not a Bundesliga pundit
Seriously?
They're both great but in different ways. Can you imagine Kahn or anyone else doing what Neuer did against Algeria last world cup?
I also think Neuer's peak has gone on longer than Kahn's did.
Yeah. Neuer is a modern goalkeeper (good at the feet) while Kahn is an old-school GK
I think Kahn has a certain additional element of leadership that Neuer doesn't have. Maybe it's just the way I feel about them and isn't based on any facts but for me it always felt like they both provide a huge amount of security for their defenders, Neuer maybe even more with his sweeping, but with Kahn you could really feel the leadership and how he shouted at defenders and got them organised and that's very important for a keeper to have.
Kahn is definitely a better leader, no doubt. Like you said both have different qualities. I don't think there's any keeper ever who would be 'easily' better than Neuer as he's one of the all time greats already. For a keeper to finish third in Ballon D'or in this day and age is nothing short of insane. Plus we could well be witnessing the father of future goalkeeping. Neuer is bound to leave a bigger legacy on the game than Kahn did tbh.
On a less serious note, Neuer didn't drop a bollock in a world cup final.
Not sure I agree with that. I think Kahn was almost invincible for 4-5 years up to the World Cup final in 2002 and if we consider that his peak, then fair enough. But he was already a sensational keeper in the mid 90's and was still brilliant after 2002 until his retirement.
In general, Neuer is simply the better overall keeper and matches Kahn's impact on games because Neuer's style of play enables us to play tactics that we simply wouldn't have been able to play with Kahn in goal.
At the moment I still rate Sepp Maier higher than both, but if we only look at the Bundesliga, then he comes 3rd. Kahn's record in the league is just insane, he just comes short for the nationalteam. I expect Neuer to be considered the greatest German keeper of all time once he retires though, he's only 29 and has quite a few years in his peak ahead of him.
There's not much in it in the end.
Neuer is by the way a fantastic leader at the back and a sensational organiser of the defense. He constantly talks with his centerbacks, positions them, influences our backline. And he's an immense presence who puts a certain fear factor in strikers running at him.
Kahn is definitely a better leader, no doubt. Like you said both have different qualities. I don't think there's any keeper ever who would be 'easily' better than Neuer as he's one of the all time greats already. For a keeper to finish third in Ballon D'or in this day and age is nothing short of insane. Plus we could well be witnessing the father of future goalkeeping. Neuer is bound to leave a bigger legacy on the game than Kahn did tbh.
On a less serious note, Neuer didn't drop a bollock in a world cup final.
Yeah, I guess it's just the nostalgic part of me that canceled the debate instantly, but there's definitely room for debate here. In the end, I think it's like you said, different qualities but both brilliant, and Neuer's achievements are nothing short than amazing.
Neuer is rather a leader on the pitch: the man who rules his defence, a kind of sweeper sometimes!
There's one CB I'm really surprised wasn't taken yet.
What was the reaction back home to that WC final error by Kahn, @Balu ?
I know the country I come from, that sorta mistake would be punishable by.. some decent amount of physical destruction to say the least.
I know the country I come from, that sorta mistake would be punishable by.. some decent amount of physical destruction to say the least.
Oh do not worry, we will take him.
Everyone felt bad for Kahn and the whole nation was proud of the team. It was one of the worst German generations, we were complete underdogs at the start of the tournament, were truely awful at the previous Euro and lost 5-1 at home against England in the qualifciation. We kinda celebrated the 2nd place almost like it was a win. It was really odd, but also really fun and not depressing at all. Such a positive atmosphere throughout the country despite the loss in the final.What was the reaction back home to that WC final error by Kahn, @Balu ?
I know the country I come from, that sorta mistake would be punishable by.. some decent amount of physical destruction to say the least.
Here are two pictures from the reception in Frankfurt the day the team returned from Japan:
How many shots do Bayern concede now compared to Bayern in 2000? The gulf between league leader and the rest is a lot bigger. You could say similar things about Valdes vs Kahn for the Barcelona side ~10 years ago.
I'll take the man on the right.
17 games for Valladolid. Alright then.
If you can't see that Neuer is a significantly better keeper than Valdes was at Barca, I'm not sure what to say. Neuer has proven his worth at Schalke (where he conceded more than enough shots in a fecking average team and still regularly had the best defensive record in the league), Bayern and Germany. The "the team is so dominant, that we don't know if 'fill in the name or position' is actually really great" thing is pretty tedious by now. I've heard it for defenders, strikers, the goalkeeper. Someone has to get credit for the team being great after all, the results don't come out of nowhere.
Yeah, that's nice to see. Those pictures are identical to the scenes I witnessed in Paris in the aftermath of the headbutt. A bit contrasting to places like Brazil where they love to victimise (re: the shit still thrown at ZicoEveryone felt bad for Kahn and the whole nation was proud of the team. It was one of the worst German generations, we were complete underdogs at the start of the tournament, were truely awful at the previous Euro and lost 5-1 at home against England in the qualifciation. We kinda celebrated the 2nd place almost like it was a win. It was really odd, but also really fun and not depressing at all. Such a positive atmosphere throughout the country despite the loss in the final.
Here are two pictures from the reception in Frankfurt the day the team returned from Japan:
). I felt bad for Kahn as well, though I was supporting Brazil for obvious reasons.You're misunderstanding my point. You say that Neuer is a much better keeper now for Bayern than Kahn because he allow you to play the way you do. Same for Valdes at Barca. He was good with the ball at his feet and they needed to be able to pass the ball back to him. Kahn wouldn't have allowed them that.
The credit is the vast difference in wealth. Success generally goes hand in hand with money spent on wages.
Watch United vs Schalke in the 2011 CL semi if you really need to be given examples of Neuer's shot stopping.
I'd take Neuer ahead of most keepers let alone Valdes if you want someone behind a shite defense to play as a wall.
Valdes is a farcry from Neuer's ability, except perhaps distribution.
Michel today
Appearances are deceptive
Appearances are deceptive
It's not the only reason though, just one of them.
I was at that game, remember it well. He was MoM. I know what Neuer could do, I just didn't like that argument as for why he's better than Kahn.
So since it's keepers it's okay to name unnamed players?
I never said 'Neuer is a much better keeper', I said he's a better overall keeper. What I meant is that he's more complete and that his style of play allows him to match Kahn's impact on the Bayern side of 15 years ago, which was massive. I've no clue how that's similar to Valdes at Barca, because Neuer is a better keeper than Valdes in pretty much every way.
He got Michel. Played a bit more than that in La Liga