How do you guys feel about players that only joined certain league this season, is it against the spirit of the draft to pick them or is it okay as the 3/4 season is over and there is plenty of players that only had one season.
La Liga/Serie A/Bundesliga Draft
- Thread starter Marty1968
- Start date
I (or better we, because it seems like Joga agrees with me on it so far and he's kinda the main manager who has final say in our picks) try to avoid picking 'one season wonders' or players who only played one season in the league I pick them for and did most of their great work somewhere else. It's just annoying and difficult to argue. Not sure what's in the spirit of this draft though, because there isn't really a rule regarding minimum performances in the league or anything like that.
All part of your argument during your match really. Not problem as such arguing that a certain player has had an outstanding season, but if your opponent has players who have consistently done it for a few years then I'd favour that tbh over a one season wonder.
Anyway, my pick coming up...
Anyway, my pick coming up...
Maybe, our Creator can specify an provide more details about the concept of "league peak". 
Never to late to make sure we have the same understanding of the game !
Never to late to make sure we have the same understanding of the game !
Actually need a little time to think this through....
The intention wasn't to big up Silva, really. As I tried to emphasize with my second post on the subject.
Whether Silva is great or just pretty good, the effect of his absence was nevertheless dramatic. That was the point, not that the dramatic effect has any definite probative value when it comes to determining how good the player himself was.
We could probably come up with plenty of hypothetical examples where a stand-out defender's absence might have had a similar effect - but I bet all those examples would involve smaller teams, not Brazil. That is the striking part: As suggested in the second post, the real story is the overall quality of that defence (both the quality of the players and perhaps, not least, the way they were organized).
Sup
Doesn't that bring us back to the point where we have to question if we might overrate Thiago Silva's impact in that team? I mean, it was a defense full of established players. I think every one in that backline was a regular starter in a CL winning side shortly before the World Cup. And it's not like Brazil's defense was impeccable with him in the team, they still were a mess before (the opening game vs Crotia for example) and after (the game vs the Netherlands, which you might or might not call important). In the end, Thiago Silva's 3 big memorable moments at the World Cup were 1. scoring the opening goal against Colombia, 2. the stupid yellow card against Colombia which meant he missed the semifinal and then 3. a few minutes into the game for 3rd place the clumsy foul for the penalty which should have seen him sent off and kinda destroyed any chance of redemption Brazil had.
It's just pure speculation that it might have been a different result in the semifinal with him in the side and I'm not sure there's much to base it on considering his individual performances in the games he actually played. The World Cup 2014 should be seen as nothing but a big failure by him. He overall played a bad tournament, way below the standard he can deliver. Yet somehow he seems completely absolved because he was lucky enough not to be part of the semifinal team. I don't buy it (anymore, because initially I actually did buy it a bit).
Sorry chaps....ok so going with a wonderfully versatile defender who will enable me to have a few different options. My next pick is one of the best full-backs in the world during the 90's. Great on both flanks and very quick.
Antonio Benarrivo
Over to you @Aldo and @The Stain
Antonio Benarrivo
Over to you @Aldo and @The Stain
- KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban
- Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Douglas Maicon
- Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol
- Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider
- Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu
- Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán
- mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu
- VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Muller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T.Silva 5. Samuel
- RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero
- Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay
- Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo
- Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert
- Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori
- Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Moller 6. Chiellini
- Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Voller 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup
- Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.
Nice pick. Him and Vieri were the top 2 of my shortlist. Debated for quite some time and went with Christian!
Thierry Henry. Someone please update the list.
@RedTiger
@crappycraperson Henry on the left, just like you like it.
@RedTiger
@crappycraperson Henry on the left, just like you like it.
Maybe I overreacted on Bundesliga, but I'll hold that off for now. I assumed that good picks Bundesliga pool would be exploited by round 4. LB is particular is a weak pool for this draft. So a Bundesliga LB was quite high on my requirements. It anyway wouldn't matter much in this draft due to scarcity of dangerous wingers. Sagnol is probably the 3rd best after Cafu and Zanetti for this game and good for the finals!
Haha I can see barca version of Henry being a hot topic in match threadThierry Henry. Someone please update the list.
@RedTiger
@crappycraperson Henry on the left, just like you like it.
No, it isn't "pure speculation". It's based on the fact that he was - by far - the best alternative they had in that particular position. And - one could add - their captain and arguably their most important player (precisely because the defence as such was lacking).
If that suddenly counts for nothing, fair enough. Then it's "pure speculation" to suggest that, say, Argentina wouldn't have been anywhere near the final without Messi.
What we're talking about here * isn't the difference between a top notch defence that would have gotten Brazil past Germany - and an utter shambles. We're talking about the difference between a defeat (because I don't think Silva's presence would have a made a blind bit of difference in terms of the basic outcome) - and an utter humiliation.
* Or at least what I was talking about, initially.
- KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban
- Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Douglas Maicon
- Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol
- Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider
- Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu
- Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán
- mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu
- VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Muller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T.Silva 5. Samuel
- RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero
- Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay 6. T Henry
- Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo
- Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert
- Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori
- Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Moller 6. Chiellini
- Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Voller 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup
- Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.
that would be pretty interesting one indeed.
I've got a very different take on his individual performances. I thought the centre-halves were very stretched at times, largely because Brazil were poor at keeping the ball and regularly lost a grip of midfield against silkier outfits. And in spite of those circumstances, he held the fort very well. It was largely Brazil's midfield rather than its defence that was a mess throughout the tournament. All the problems that Germany so brutally exposed were apparent well before the semi-final. But in his absence the defence unravelled. Whereas before they were able to hold a tight central defensive core despite losing the midfield battle, with Sideshow leading, the whole thing was a dog's breakfast. His solitary poor performance was the third place play-off and I'm uncomfortable awarding it any more stature than the glorified friendly it has always been.
I think we would have destroyed them with him as well. In my opinion they were mentally not up for the game. The Thiago Silva factor was a minor one compared to the absence of Neymar and the weird pressure they put on themselves. The whole 'we win it for Neymar' thing, holding up his shirt during the anthem and all that. The whole Brazil side seemed to be busy creating a circus while we were up for the game more than in any other match. Add Scolari's tactics to the equation and two attacking fullback who both lack positional discipline and all of a sudden Thiago Silva's impact on the team looks much smaller. I don't think Thiago Silva is the character to lead the team over such a problem. He might have saved Brazil in few situations, where Thiago's replacement looked lost, but the game itself from a tactical and invididual point of view wouldn't have been impacted by him.
I'd argue that it could have been a game if Neymar wasn't injured. Not even because of his individual quality, but because Brazil would have gone into the game in a much more calm manner.
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Imagine it'll be quite similar to when Theon and I picked Veron at round 12 in the Premiership draft...
I'd agree with all of that. They whole thing was cringeworthy and a telling example in how not to carry on at the business end of a tournament.
Btw think this is the first time I've picked Das Phantom. What's your take on him @Balu ?
I kinda agree with that point. I just don't see how Thiago Silva could have kept that central core together against us in these circumstances. They were disorganised throughout the tournament and just kept it together in the middle against opponents who didn't have the tools to exploit the flaws in that team. We did and they stood no chance. It's just impossible to defend centrally well if your fullbacks go awol in such spectacular fashion and Silva's presence didn't prevent that from happening in the previous games either.
While Sideshow was obviously awful, the fullbacks were even worse and caused so much trouble for the central defensive core. It was hilarious to watch time and again.
Joga was slightly worried that I might kill him after you picked him. I mentioned him about 17 times in our conversations regarding possible strikers
. Awesome pick and equally great peaks in La Liga and the Bundesliga, which could be helpful later in the draft.I think it's a pumping whatever way we look at it. While Silva would have mitigated some of the damage, looking at the goals there are midfielders and wide attackers strolling through untracked time and time again.
I know that Balu is the authority on this, but just to jump in I really really like him and considered him for us as well. You can use him both in his last season at super depor and in his first in Bayern when I think was his heyday. He's excellent for this format. All in all he had a pretty good career his only blemish was that he couldn't break into the Dutch side but having RvN, Kluivert etc didn't help.
Well, that's not implausible as such. It's much closer to pure speculation, however, than claiming that the loss of their captain and best defender (by a mile) impacted the result negatively.
Personally, I think what you speculate about probably was a factor - that seems perfectly reasonable to me. But if you propose that this factor was so important that - to put it in simple terms - Brazil would have lost 1-7 even if Silva had played, I disagree.
Going in calmer with Neymar? Certainly - very likely. Less hysterical approach to the game and so forth. I buy that. But they were even less calm, and even more hysterical, without their captain.
I got zilch credit for him in the 70s draft, but the good folk of the Caf are a more astute bunch now so I fancy he'll get his dues. Great all-round centre-forward, ruthless on either foot and in the air.
Maybe not 7-1, but we would have smashed them in these circumstances. Doesn't matter if Silva played or not.
We've been tailing him since round two.
Hardly. One flopped, the other scored 26 goals at his pomp.Imagine it'll be quite similar to when Theon and I picked Veron at round 12 in the Premiership draft...
Thanks. Yes, one of the biggest selling points. He deserved a place in this draft imo as he's not normally picked.
That draft had a couple of Irish defenders that were no good. Thought my team and some of my arguments were a mess. The ante has certainly been upped since then.
His best La Liga season was 19 goals. Not bad, but not prime Henry either.
Not that I'm particularly bothered, I've defended his performances there before. But it's quite a similar post-peak situation as Veron in England IMO. Obviously if he's there to provide some width and stretch the play a bit, then it's not an issue.
it really isnt. While both were post peak, Henry played at much higher level in a different role to the one in Arsenal where he was at his peak. Veron EPL spell was average at best with few flashes of brilliance.
No not at all. But like you said he'll be given a role.
I'm always baffled at this though. Do people have no memory of that treble winning Barca team? That trio was thrilling.
Abidal.
They certainly were.
Just to confirm, that's your pick right?
yesh