La Liga 2024/25

Iker Quesadillas said:
Yes. A team that cannot control games, play against low blocks, lacks chemistry in attack, play out the back, etc. does not win a league title with 95 points, scoring 87 goals, and winning the CL. It's an overstatement.

We're not talking about a decent season, it was by some metrics the best in the club's history.
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You can absolutely win major trophies despite these limitations, as long as you have great players, and I did say that Madrid have world class players in every position. Bellingham scoring a late winner against a mid-table team or a banger out of nowhere against Barcelona, Vinicius scoring solo goals, Rudiger scoring from a corner kick have more to do with individual talent than it does with well-structured attacking patterns of play. And Kroos was also still there last season.

The last two champions league titles are good examples of that: outplayed in most games, bailed out by great players (Courtois, Benzema, Vinicius, etc.).

The results and the trophies can't be questionned, the quality of football can be and that was the point of my first post.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Yes. A team that cannot control games, play against low blocks, lacks chemistry in attack, play out the back, etc. does not win a league title with 95 points, scoring 87 goals, and winning the CL. It's an overstatement.

We're not talking about a decent season, it was by some metrics the best in the club's history.
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Real Madrid lost 2 games all season, to the same team in the same stadium, one in ET. Not quite Leverkusen, I know, but still

I fundamentally disagree with the premise that this team struggles compared to years past. For example, even at our peak under Zidane, our main answer to breaking down low blocks tended to be "We have Cristiano Ronaldo". Our attacking play mostly consisted of cross and inshallah. And it worked because of the quality of strikers we had. We struggle now - have struggled in every season bar the Benzecalypse - because we don't have the same quality of poachers/fox in the box scorers. The issues with this team are a combination of lack of chemistry, coaching, and early season fitness/injuries

I do think this is a group that needs more tactical work, more structure and established patterns of play, compared to the past, as the midfield does lack the problem solving of Kroos and Modric, and the forwards need to be running forward - can't just rely on pinning the opposition back and spam balls into the box with this group
 
giorno said:
Real Madrid lost 2 games all season, to the same team in the same stadium, one in ET. Not quite Leverkusen, I know, but still

I fundamentally disagree with the premise that this team struggles compared to years past. For example, even at our peak under Zidane, our main answer to breaking down low blocks tended to be "We have Cristiano Ronaldo". Our attacking play mostly consisted of cross and inshallah. And it worked because of the quality of strikers we had. We struggle now - have struggled in every season bar the Benzecalypse - because we don't have the same quality of poachers/fox in the box scorers. The issues with this team are a combination of lack of chemistry, coaching, and early season fitness/injuries

I do think this is a group that needs more tactical work, more structure and established patterns of play, compared to the past, as the midfield does lack the problem solving of Kroos and Modric, and the forwards need to be running forward - can't just rely on pinning the opposition back and spam balls into the box with this group
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Both Ancelotti and Zidane kind of share the same coaching approach. They both seem to be great at managing egos but - as you stated - the tactical approach is indeed often reliant on individual class. I know that you cannot really argue against their success in the CL, but I would want neither at my club.
 
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Marvin look out said:
You can absolutely win major trophies despite these limitations, as long as you have great players, and I did say that Madrid have world class players in every position. Bellingham scoring a late winner against a mid-table team or a banger out of nowhere against Barcelona, Vinicius scoring solo goals, Rudiger scoring from a corner kick have more to do with individual talent than it does with well-structured attacking patterns of play. And Kroos was also still there last season.

The last two champions league titles are good examples of that: outplayed in most games, bailed out by great players (Courtois, Benzema, Vinicius, etc.).

The results and the trophies can't be questionned, the quality of football can be and that was the point of my first post.
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I don't think the premise of your argument is bad or anything, it's just a bit overstated. The current team performs well, this is just a slow start to the season. The 'technical' team had slow starts too.

RE: the CL, one of the major reasons RM get outplayed in games is because of physicality. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Kroos was usually on the pitch when RM were being outplayed, and off the pitch when they would stage a comeback.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I don't think the premise of your argument is bad or anything, it's just a bit overstated. The current team performs well, this is just a slow start to the season. The 'technical' team had slow starts too.

RE: the CL, one of the major reasons RM get outplayed in games is because of physicality. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Kroos was usually on the pitch when RM were being outplayed, and off the pitch when they would stage a comeback.
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They are gonna get better no doubt, there is too much talent in this team. It may just not be pretty or easy.

I disagree that Madrid get outplayed in the CL because of physicality. I mean most of their players are physical specimen. Look at the Leipzig games, no way they are physically superior to Madrid, and none of their players would start for Madrid either.

Giorno touched upon it, it's tactically than Madrid get outplayed due to a lack of coaching. I mentionned the profiles of the players earlier but the coaching is even more important. Ancelotti has looked out of his depth tactically far too many times, and this should really be his last season at Madrid.
 
TenHagsEmpire said:
In my lifetime Barca’s La Masia have had more players winning titles (La Ligas, Copas and CLs) for their club than Madrid youth products for Madrid.

I just prefer their approach more from what I’ve seen in my lifetime.

Barca once fielded an entire La Masia lineup in a league match(I think it was their manager Tito’s decision), and they won the league that year.

Now they are doing very well again with many youngsters. And if Barca win the league with multiple 17 years (Yamal, Cubarsi) and these other youngsters AFTER Madrid buying the so called best player in the world… well, in my opinion then it would be quite humiliating for Madrid.
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Yes, I know during your lifetime Barca did well in the competitions in which they paid the vice president of the Technical Committee of Referees, but I wouldn't make too much of a fuss about it for obvious reasons.

On the idea of equating the Champions Leagues with the Copas, putting both competitions on the same level of importance, I don't think there's much need to make many comments either. But if you find someone who agrees with it somewhere else, try to include the Joan Gamper trophies next time too, maybe it will work.
 
I used to hate Madrid for the way they acted regarding Ronaldo, but since then they've been doing the Lord's work keeping Liverpool and City away from Champions League trophies, when we are not in a position to be able to do it ourselves.

For this reason alone, I hope Madrid and La Liga keeps getting stronger.
 
Marvin look out said:
They are gonna get better no doubt, there is too much talent in this team. It may just not be pretty or easy.

I disagree that Madrid get outplayed in the CL because of physicality. I mean most of their players are physical specimen. Look at the Leipzig games, no way they are physically superior to Madrid, and none of their players would start for Madrid either.

Giorno touched upon it, it's tactically than Madrid get outplayed due to a lack of coaching. I mentionned the profiles of the players earlier but the coaching is even more important. Ancelotti has looked out of his depth tactically far too many times, and this should really be his last season at Madrid.
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Yes some are physical specimen, but not all of them. For sure Valverde is a physical specimen. Or Vinicius. Or Militao if he is not injured. Just to name a few ones of course.

Modric, Kroos and Casemiro who were all starters in 2022 not too sure about it.

Or Benzema, Modric and Kroos in 2023.

I mean, there was a reason why in many of those games there seemed to be a big improvement when Camavinga was getting in in the second halves.

And the Leipzig draw can be more explained from the motivational point of view rather than anything. I mean, for the last 10 years, this group of players have played much worse than they could against teams perceived as inferior.
 
Our pressing is worse than Sociedad. Jfc this is bad.
 
Nice game between Madrid and Sociedad, with the latter unlucky not to have yet scored.

Rough night for Vinicius so far.
 
antk said:
Nice game between Madrid and Sociedad, with the latter unlucky not to have yet scored.

Rough night for Vinicius so far.
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Sociedad should’ve been up by 3-0. We are atrocious :lol:
 
The only good news is second half cannot be worse than this.

Or at least I hope so.
 
Mbappé is having his best game with a real shirt, dare I say his best game since May or something.
 
Meh, I get it is a pen by the rules but he had already passed the ball.
 
Horrible team. Just horrible. Nothing works here. Admittedly missing players but there isn’t any improvement. Easily pressed, bad press ourselves, no chemistry and link-up play between the attackers, no midfield etc etc.

Lucked out with the pens today, no way were we scoring otherwise.
 
RG77 said:
Horrible team. Just horrible. Nothing works here. Admittedly missing players but there isn’t any improvement. Easily pressed, bad press ourselves, no chemistry and link-up play between the attackers, no midfield etc etc.

Lucked out with the pens today, no way were we scoring otherwise.
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Very underwhelming victory to be fair, hopefully it would improve as the season goes on. Good thing we got the 3 points.
 
RG77 said:
Horrible team. Just horrible. Nothing works here. Admittedly missing players but there isn’t any improvement. Easily pressed, bad press ourselves, no chemistry and link-up play between the attackers, no midfield etc etc.

Lucked out with the pens today, no way were we scoring otherwise.
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To be fair for you, missing 3 midfielders is not a small thing. But yeah, fitting Mbappé and Vinicius together is not going to be an easy fit.
 
RoyH1 said:
To be fair for you, missing 3 midfielders is not a small thing. But yeah, fitting Mbappé and Vinicius together is not going to be an easy fit.
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It wasn’t much better when Tchou and Jude were available for the first game. Mind you we were just starting the season and still trying the 433/424 setup.

It’s clear there is a lot of work that needs to be done and even then the team is missing a lot. By the time we get it right, if we get it right, things will look worse on the table. Vini and Mbappe have 0 chemistry and neither one is playing to their level. Rodrygo is mainly giving his best performances on Twitter or something. Midfield can only rely on Valverde. And the defense is struggling building up the play without Kroos.

Barca look much, much better. Fair play to Flick.
 
We are actually missing four midfielders (Tchouameni, Camavinga, Bellinghan and Ceballos) plus Alaba and Brahim now.

Thank God we have Valverde in Marvel super hero mode, otherwise we don't get the win yesterday at Anoeta.
 
Pft. All this is peasant talk. Things such as performance, balance, injuries and midfielders are plebeian sorts of concerns, beneath Real Madrid
 
giorno said:
Pft. All this is peasant talk. Things such as performance, balance, injuries and midfielders are plebeian sorts of concerns, beneath Real Madrid
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Forgive me, Lord, for I have sinned. Hala Madrid.
 
TenHagsEmpire said:
Gavi? Cubarsi? Bernal?

You seem very ignorant. Try watching matches other than Madrid’s.

Lamine outshone Mbappe in the Euros and so far in the league this season. Yeah, he has more growing to do as he is only 17. That’s scary. Lamine is better than any youngster at Madrid.

You probably haven’t even heard of Guille Fernandez either. But you will. Good luck.

Only academy to rival Barca’s is Ajax’.
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Everybody outshone Messi for the most part of his NT career. Does this answer the quality of your analogy?

Besides, when your argument is a sample size of three players out of which the most accomplished one is a dude who is basically a midfield version of Oleguer, and then you add another 16 year old La Masia dude who has not even sniffed at top tier senior football yet, well.... Do i need to say anything? In reality, if Barca is in a healthy place institutionally ( including financial aspect ), the only one who enters the equation is Lamine. And even he does it from the bench, with his minutes being carefully managed to develop properly.

While i agree with the last sentence. Ajax has produced as much as Barca in last decade +. Essentially nothing.
 
RoyH1 said:
To be fair for you, missing 3 midfielders is not a small thing. But yeah, fitting Mbappé and Vinicius together is not going to be an easy fit.
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Grossly overrated "issue". If we would have a proper poacher like Haaland upfront, we would look the same for the most part.

We lack idea, structure, movement and timing. In every phase of the game. Starters being back will help massively, due to their individual quality. But, systemic issues will remain.
 
I'd be very happy to have an explanation to why this was not a pen.
 
TenHagsEmpire said:
In my lifetime Barca’s La Masia have had more players winning titles (La Ligas, Copas and CLs) for their club than Madrid youth products for Madrid.

I just prefer their approach more from what I’ve seen in my lifetime.

Barca once fielded an entire La Masia lineup in a league match(I think it was their manager Tito’s decision), and they won the league that year.

Now they are doing very well again with many youngsters. And if Barca win the league with multiple 17 years (Yamal, Cubarsi) and these other youngsters AFTER Madrid buying the so called best player in the world… well, in my opinion then it would be quite humiliating for Madrid.
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I don't get why teams don't copy their academy format, it seems like a no-brainer for me. Even if you're not as successful you're still going to get some results.
 
Flick got Barca playing some cracking stuff. They might be back
 
Watching Hansi Flick get it right almost immediately meanwhile ETH plodding along 3 seasons and still not getting consitent cohesive play just annoys me.
 
krazyrobus said:
Watching Hansi Flick get it right almost immediately meanwhile ETH plodding along 3 seasons and still not getting consitent cohesive play just annoys me.
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Flicks has the benefit of having someone who seems to be a genuine future ( current?) Balon Dor level talent in Yamal. Oh and he is also got a striker he knows very well whos still got goals in him despite his age.

When Rashford was in his god mode form Ten Hag also looked like a genius.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Flicks has the benefit of having someone who seems to be a genuine future ( current?) Balon Dor level talent in Yamal. Oh and he is also got a striker he knows very well whos still got goals in him despite his age.

When Rashford was in his god mode form Ten Hag also looked like a genius.
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I did not speak of goals, I spoke of cohesiveness. The way Barca press, the way they beat a press, the energy of their players. Balde was harassing the opposition wide player in the opposition corner at the 85th minutes 4-1 up. These are things ETH still struggles with 3 years on.
 
Flick ball flicking on, it seems. But the level of their opponents has not been very high, right? Although Girona was quite alright for some stretch, last season or the season before?
 
krazyrobus said:
Watching Hansi Flick get it right almost immediately meanwhile ETH plodding along 3 seasons and still not getting consitent cohesive play just annoys me.
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Not defending EtH here because I actually agree with you that’s it’s been too long for EtH (it’s been 2 seasons, this is the third now) and the excuses just doesn’t cut it anymore. But specifically with teams like Barca, it makes a world of difference taking over a team/squad which is comfortable in a specific way of playing. Same reason I’d say teams like Brighton (& now possibly Pool) always seem to maintain their style no matter who their coach is etc. I’m confident this is something Ineos will implement here - as oppose to giving coaches too much authority on signings and going from the likes (style) of a Moyes to LvG, to Jose, to Ole and now to EtH.

All that being said of course, I think Flick is a great coach - or his time at Bayern anyway. Not sure what happened at NT level, but that German squad was probably also undergoing a bit of a transition etc.
 
Hoof the ball said:
Barca still find ways to win the league more even during Madrid's most prominent CL runs. :lol:
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In the last 5 years, Barca won 1 league title. Atletico 1 also. Madrid 3. They had a good start last season as well before collapsing.

Barca need to perform in the CL again to truly be back. The domestic league is one thing, but it's the group stage exits and the humiliations in the CL that have hurt them the most.
 
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