La Liga 2018/19

Problem is Barca struggle to impose themselves in CL away games.

Look at their results in last two seasons in the competition.

Man. City 3-1 Barca

PSG 4-0 Barca

Juventus 3-0 Barca

Roma 3-0 Barca

Messi struggles to get into things away from Camp Nou.


The City game was in the group stage, was it not?
In any case Messi was pretty good in that one and away to Juve as well (I recall two absolutely golden through balls he played that Iniesta and Suárez failed to convert).
He was terrible in both legs against PSG in my opinion. And just average in both legs against Roma.
So while he's certainly not been amazing away from home, it's more nuanced than that.
Overall, Barça have been too predictable in the CL KOs in the past few seasons. Even against Chelsea you could argue they weren't the better side.

Tonight, Coutinho was trying to force it a bit too much I felt (taking too many shots from difficult positions). And Luis Suárez even while having his best performance in a while, all too often didn't pick the right option.
Dembélé looked lively if error-prone as usual but he was subbed due to the sending off.
Messi scored from the one good chance created for him; he had to beat three opponents for his only other shot from open play which was fingertipped away by the goalie, and for the rest he was dependent on free-kicks to get a shot off.

Don't think there's too much to take from it considering it was 10v11 for the majority of the match, but their chance creation under Valverde feels incredibly stale.
That should change this season you'd think, with all the talent they have now plus Coutinho and Dembélé bedded in.
 
A midfield consisting of Busquets, Rakitic, Arthur, Arturo Vidal and Coutinho is decent? Every other midfield besides Madrid must be completely shit then...

They have Malcom, Dembele, Messi and a top 5 striker in Suarez as forwards... in defense arguably the best goalkeeper in the world, Alba is the second best leftback after Marcelo, Pique and Umtiti make a very good partnership.. what more do you want? To have the best in the world in every single position?

Barcelona have built a ridiculously strong squad, if they are dependent on Messi it’s because that’s how they choose to play, not because they need to. There are no excuses for Valverde this time, Barcelona have the best squad in the world and they’re desperate to win the Champions League. Time to deliver.

You said the same past season and we did nil, we'd be out in R16 if it weren't for Leo killing Chelsea and our luck with the posts.

I'm still waiting for Suarez "top 5 striker", 1 goal in his last 11 UCL games, 4 goals in the last 20. As for Pique or Alba, look at the press with the NT, Pique is out and no one cries about it, Alba is on his way out too, comparing them to actual top performers is a joke, if it wasn't for the service he gets from Leo, Alba would get 0 recognition. If Luke Shaw signed the game Alba played today the caf would be calling for his head, tons of openings on his wing, he reaches the line more than any LB in the world and produces half what Marcelo does in less chances. I'd take Alonso, Alaba, Sandro or even Gayá over Alba for the past two seasons.

Suarez needs special mention, I love his hustle and his hunger but he's so clearly past it compared to other strikers or his own version 4 years ago that I'd rather have Alcacer in the team instead of Luis, not only we've been banking on the guy hitting his form for more than a year now, having him on the pitch is hurting the development and chemistry of our starting 11, Coutinho plays worse the more we involve Suarez, Malcom has to warm the bench because we'll never play a true 433 with Ñeo as a false 9 and Malcom/Dembele alongside him because Luis is unbenchable...

And the mistakes take a deeper dimension when you have a pragmatist like Valverde on the bench.
 
I'm hardly a fan of Valverde personally, but I feel they've actually looked better this season so far at least. Real Sociedad notwithstanding, the lone fact that Dembele is currently the eleventh player instead of the Paulinho/Gomes/Aleix Vidal conglomerate we had the opportunity of watching last season, and that they actually play in a 4-3-3 formation most of the time are clear signs of improvement...
 
You said the same past season and we did nil, we'd be out in R16 if it weren't for Leo killing Chelsea and our luck with the posts.

I'm still waiting for Suarez "top 5 striker", 1 goal in his last 11 UCL games, 4 goals in the last 20. As for Pique or Alba, look at the press with the NT, Pique is out and no one cries about it, Alba is on his way out too, comparing them to actual top performers is a joke, if it wasn't for the service he gets from Leo, Alba would get 0 recognition. If Luke Shaw signed the game Alba played today the caf would be calling for his head, tons of openings on his wing, he reaches the line more than any LB in the world and produces half what Marcelo does in less chances. I'd take Alonso, Alaba, Sandro or even Gayá over Alba for the past two seasons.

Suarez needs special mention, I love his hustle and his hunger but he's so clearly past it compared to other strikers or his own version 4 years ago that I'd rather have Alcacer in the team instead of Luis, not only we've been banking on the guy hitting his form for more than a year now, having him on the pitch is hurting the development and chemistry of our starting 11, Coutinho plays worse the more we involve Suarez, Malcom has to warm the bench because we'll never play a true 433 with Ñeo as a false 9 and Malcom/Dembele alongside him because Luis is unbenchable...

And the mistakes take a deeper dimension when you have a pragmatist like Valverde on the bench.

My culé friends say more or less the same as you. The negative weight Suárez has on the team and the fact that he is untouchable. They emphasize the regularity of Valverde, but at least they, - and in spite of winning la liga- are not at all convinced with him.
 
You said the same past season and we did nil, we'd be out in R16 if it weren't for Leo killing Chelsea and our luck with the posts.

I'm still waiting for Suarez "top 5 striker", 1 goal in his last 11 UCL games, 4 goals in the last 20. As for Pique or Alba, look at the press with the NT, Pique is out and no one cries about it, Alba is on his way out too, comparing them to actual top performers is a joke, if it wasn't for the service he gets from Leo, Alba would get 0 recognition. If Luke Shaw signed the game Alba played today the caf would be calling for his head, tons of openings on his wing, he reaches the line more than any LB in the world and produces half what Marcelo does in less chances. I'd take Alonso, Alaba, Sandro or even Gayá over Alba for the past two seasons.

Suarez needs special mention, I love his hustle and his hunger but he's so clearly past it compared to other strikers or his own version 4 years ago that I'd rather have Alcacer in the team instead of Luis, not only we've been banking on the guy hitting his form for more than a year now, having him on the pitch is hurting the development and chemistry of our starting 11, Coutinho plays worse the more we involve Suarez, Malcom has to warm the bench because we'll never play a true 433 with Ñeo as a false 9 and Malcom/Dembele alongside him because Luis is unbenchable...

And the mistakes take a deeper dimension when you have a pragmatist like Valverde on the bench.

I said the same thing because it was true too. Last season you vastly underperformed in the Champions League in relation to the quality you have. If you struggled against Chelsea and Roma it wasn’t because you didn’t clearly have a better squad than them.

Pique and the NT... I don’t think that needs an explanation really and it has nothing to do with how good he is. Alba is the second best left back in the world by a mile, he had a bad game today but even if he played a whole season like this he’d have been better than Gaya or Sandro last season. Suarez is easily a top 5 striker in the world too and nitpicking some stats to make it seem otherwise won’t change that. Saying you’d prefer to start Paco alcacer ahead of him is mental. Suarez scores 1 goal every 2 games for both club and country, even now he outperforms Cavani for Uruguay ffs... I 100% guarantee you that next season Luis Suarez will still be your starting striker, there’s noone you can buy that’s better. He’s definitely declined but he’s still one hell of a player and he’d start for pretty much every team in the world. He’s being made into a scapegoat every time you don’t win a game regardless of how he plays.

Barcelona have the best squad in the world, the constant need of the media and plenty of fans to find scapegoats and downplay the quality of the team is unique to your club. If you don’t play like the best team in the world, it’s because your way of playing isn’t getting the best out of those players, it’s not because the players lack quality.

Can you explain me why a team with players like Coutinho, Dembele, Malcom and Suarez apparently is dependent on Messi to create chances and score goals? It doesn’t make sense to me.
 
Can you explain me why a team with players like Coutinho, Dembele, Malcom and Suarez apparently is dependent on Messi to create chances and score goals? It doesn’t make sense to me.

The same reason why any team, in any sports, depend on some of the greatest players to have played, it's a natural human tendency. When you have someone so dominant compared to the rest of the team, no matter how talented the rest of the team is, they fall into a habit of playing for that player to shine and depending on his brilliance to come through. A team like Real Madrid has been full of talents for years, but until they've had a summer without CR7 in the team, every Madrid game where CR7 was gone, they would struggle. It's just a habit that builds up, where great players sort of suck the rest of the offense towards them and shine and you can't just have that be taken away and expect the rest of the team to all of the sudden remember how to shine without that player on their side.

If you took away Messi this season, they would struggle mightily, however if you give them an off-season knowing he won't be on the team anymore (and maybe with a better coach as well), I'm sure this Barcelona side is talented enough to win (maybe they need to look at Suarez before that though).
 
He makes a very weird gesture with the arm / elbow. For me it is not natural. Also the fact that he can not remove the arm (if he can not) does not make the blow on the face disappear

His arm/elbow is too high and we all agree. Don't think it was deliberate though.
 
It's an unnatural movement, end of story. If anything, in that situation, you'd put your right hand on the chest of the player to sort of cushion the contact or bounce off him towards the ball; he deserved that red IMO.
 
The bad refeering from Gil Manzano cannot be the only excuse. If you can score 8 goals against Huesca, you gotta score at least 5 against Girona, even with 10 men.

Bad match by Barça, first and foremost. Suárez is beginning to piss me off. The guy is supoosed to a) score goals , b) to not be static like Ibra or a classic 9 so Messi can do his thing, and c) score more goals. These days he only succeeds at "b", clearly NOT enough. If I was Valverde I'd try the 2 Wingers (Dembelé + Malcom) plus Messi (with Cou near) in the middle option.
 
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The same reason why any team, in any sports, depend on some of the greatest players to have played, it's a natural human tendency. When you have someone so dominant compared to the rest of the team, no matter how talented the rest of the team is, they fall into a habit of playing for that player to shine and depending on his brilliance to come through. A team like Real Madrid has been full of talents for years, but until they've had a summer without CR7 in the team, every Madrid game where CR7 was gone, they would struggle. It's just a habit that builds up, where great players sort of suck the rest of the offense towards them and shine and you can't just have that be taken away and expect the rest of the team to all of the sudden remember how to shine without that player on their side.

If you took away Messi this season, they would struggle mightily, however if you give them an off-season knowing he won't be on the team anymore (and maybe with a better coach as well), I'm sure this Barcelona side is talented enough to win (maybe they need to look at Suarez before that though).

I agree that that’s the case with Barcelona since Neymar has left. I don’t agree at all that it was the case with Real Madrid and Ronaldo though.

No matter how good a player is, the team should play so it can get the best out of the colective. They shouldn't play so the influence of the best player is maximized. It would be one thing to play like Barcelona play if Messi was playing with a squad with the quality of Girona but with world class players in pretty much every position and the best squad in the world, why would they need to rely on him?

If Messi gets injured, Barcelona are fecked even though they'd be able to play a world class front 3 with Dembele, Coutinho and Suarez...
 
The bad refeering from Gil Manzano cannot be the only excuse. If you can score 8 goals against Huesca, you gotta score at least 5 against Girona, even with 10 men.

Bad match by Barça, first and foremost. Suárez is beginning to piss me off. The guy is supoosed to a) score goals , b) to not be static like Ibra or a classic 9 so Messi can do his thing, and c) score more goals. These days he only succeeds at "b", clearly NOT enough. If I was Valverde I'd try the 2 Wingers (Dembelé + Malcom) plus Messi (with Cou near) in the middle option.
Girona are a good team, tbh. Even when they lost 4-1 to Madrid this season they didn't deserve it.
 
I said the same thing because it was true too. Last season you vastly underperformed in the Champions League in relation to the quality you have. If you struggled against Chelsea and Roma it wasn’t because you didn’t clearly have a better squad than them.

Pique and the NT... I don’t think that needs an explanation really and it has nothing to do with how good he is. Alba is the second best left back in the world by a mile, he had a bad game today but even if he played a whole season like this he’d have been better than Gaya or Sandro last season.

Pique is a double edged sword, today he costed us a goal and scored another, sometimes he might cost us and don't give anything back (remember his hand vs Russia for example), other times he adds... he's too inconsistent if you compare him to Puyol, Marquez or even Umtiti right now, I liked Vermaelen over Pique last year for example.

Alba, you can tell me what he offers as a player, he's fast, has a lot of gas in the tank but that's barely it, he leaves a hole in our left side too many times, he's not a great associative player like Alves or even Adriano was and he surely lacks skill to create something on his own, he doesn't dribble, doesn't have a good shot on him or is he good at crosses (Sergi Roberto isn't Becks second coming, but at least his crosses carry threat potential, they aren't put to random spots of the area). Saying that Alba is a top 2, to me, it's like saying Sergi was a top 10 LB through the nineties, they might get the job done for us when we're firing on all cilinders, but when we struggle they usually are a big part of the reason of our problems.

Suarez is easily a top 5 striker in the world too and nitpicking some stats to make it seem otherwise won’t change that. Saying you’d prefer to start Paco alcacer ahead of him is mental. Suarez scores 1 goal every 2 games for both club and country, even now he outperforms Cavani for Uruguay ffs... I 100% guarantee you that next season Luis Suarez will still be your starting striker, there’s noone you can buy that’s better. He’s definitely declined but he’s still one hell of a player and he’d start for pretty much every team in the world. He’s being made into a scapegoat every time you don’t win a game regardless of how he plays.

You might say it's mental but that's just the way it is, same way Eto'o or Villa worked better for us when I think we all agree Ibra was a better player than both of them, it's about what the club needs and how we're set to play, with Uruguay his hustle and positioning are better used in a long ball style, were Cavani brings a lot of work and positional playing too.

We're too static for him to make such a difference, and the less he scores, the more we want him to score, and the more he comes deeper to get in touch with the ball, that hurts us even more, when he gains confidence, like past January, he plays more as a "matador", and the qualities he hasn't lost yet (strength, finishing in one/two touches, creating havoc in the defense) come to shine, only for him to hit bad form again and fall back to playing the way he did 4 years ago, something he's not able to do.

And I don't think in a world with Kane, Lukaku, Ronaldo, Neymar, Mbappe, Cavani, Icardi, Salah or Lewa it's a fair thing to say he's top 5 undoubtedly, for the past season in a half I don't think he was better than Higuain at club level for example, and... sigh... Benzema

Barcelona have the best squad in the world, the constant need of the media and plenty of fans to find scapegoats and downplay the quality of the team is unique to your club. If you don’t play like the best team in the world, it’s because your way of playing isn’t getting the best out of those players, it’s not because the players lack quality.

Can you explain me why a team with players like Coutinho, Dembele, Malcom and Suarez apparently is dependent on Messi to create chances and score goals? It doesn’t make sense to me.

Well, for starters we come from one of the best (if not the best) squads in history, so it's always easy to find less than that a downgrade, but going deeper, you can see this team has a lot of flaws.

But well, even tho we can concur that, name by name, we have one of the best squads in the world (don't want to get into this technicality, let's say that there's 4/5 teams at the same level) our chemistry and the game plan vastly reduces the quality of this team when they're on the pitch.

1) Our defense is weak, since we have only two pure defensive options, from Alba, Semedo and Roberto we lack one of those coveted "defensive Wingbacks" that let's us turn from a 2-5-3 in attack to a 3-4-3 when defending counters, so we're frail at the back, especially when we don't have the ball. Busquets it's the best DM in the world, but once you're able to send the ball over his head you don't have to deal with him as a factor and you actually attack only two players, Xavi talked about it already 4 years ago for example and Lucho in his last season tried to work around it with 3 at the back using Mascherano, but he didn't have all the right pieces for a 3-4-3 and they let him go before he could complete it. Valverde's 442 only helps us reduce the amount of instances that happens by making it easier for the team to get dull possesion in midfield with an extra midfielder, but doesn't solve the problem.

2) Our midfield lacks an idea, by names (this season) we have great players, but together they don't fit that well, I already talked about how teams "ignore" Busquets in a way, Rakitic is a hard worker and a great player, but he isn't a creative force in the manner Kroos, Modric, Pirlo, Pogba, Isco, Thiago, KDB, Silva or Pjanic (who we were interested in years ago) are, he's either a direct player (Sevilla vs Real years ago highlight that style) or a box-to-box, but not a field marshal. Coutinho... we'll see if he can adapt to that role of moving the team around with Messi, we missed a player like him vs Roma for example. Beyond that we have doubts, I doubt Arturo Vidal will show his best version, but I'm happy he's here, I doubt about Arthur or Suarez being good enough to claim a spot from Rakitic/Coutinho and that could hurt their development and future performances.

3) Our attack... IF we played a 343 to overcome the problems of our defensive frailty, we could use a more direct approach and play our front 3 at a faster pace, Suarez and Dembele would benefit from that, Malcom too, Messi would feel liberated if he faced defenses in panic instead of 5 men dealing with a static attack... but if we start playing faster, cutting inside aggresively, crossing more (even tho we lack aerial prowess, we have 3 great 2nd line finishers in Leo, Cou and Rakitic) or dribbling more, we risk gifting the ball away just for them to mount a counter against our two CB's.

Why does everything work around Leo? Because, as with Argentina, he's not only a great goalscorer, he's the best player in the world at hiding the ball away (Modric rivals him at this). You can balance a poor built squad with many downsides just by putting him around the 10 spot and let him help you have the ball, if there's no option to try a forward pass or open to the wings he comes back, dribbles a player, pass to Masche/Busquets/Rakitic or whoever, moves around and tries it again. When Messi isn't in the field the team has to attack more directly, gives the ball away and everything crumbles from not only players that aren't fit to be together in the same 11 at the top level, but haven't properly trained those mechanism because they got a football "bug" named Messi that let's them get away with team flaws in the midfield zone.

Examples of that?. You have plenty in the last 6 months, vs Sevilla away, vs Levante, Argentina vs Spain or the way Roma "ignored" Messi by hoofing the ball above the midfield and Dzeko won his duels, this happened back in the 90's when Valencia showed everyone how weak our style was to counter attacks, our midfield dream trio + Messi and Guardiola's work helped us bring that legacy back but Real started nailing us the same way Valencia did (Ronaldo's goal in the Super cup, for example), we're stuck at the same turning point that had us not win a single title for 5 years before, but now we have Messi to keep us clawing at trophies.
 
I atill can't really understand why you think this Barca-side was so Messi reliant. Thought Coutinho created many chances single handidly (initiated the Pique-goal with a brillant through ball), Dembele also had some very good moments this season, Arthur handöes the midfield role quite well and so forth. Last season everything went through Messi but the more recent games looked differently IMO.
 
Nope. Not even close

I remember very well them struggling, they would create chances but they'd draw games they would usually win with him. I'm not saying every game he wasn't playing (which was rare for him to miss games to begin with), but the few games I have seen him missing through suspension or injury, they would struggle more and where they usually would get a win, they'd end with a draw. Here's an example to refresh your memory.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...spension-how-much-have-real-madrid-missed-him

I agree that that’s the case with Barcelona since Neymar has left. I don’t agree at all that it was the case with Real Madrid and Ronaldo though.

No matter how good a player is, the team should play so it can get the best out of the colective. They shouldn't play so the influence of the best player is maximized. It would be one thing to play like Barcelona play if Messi was playing with a squad with the quality of Girona but with world class players in pretty much every position and the best squad in the world, why would they need to rely on him?

If Messi gets injured, Barcelona are fecked even though they'd be able to play a world class front 3 with Dembele, Coutinho and Suarez...

That would be ideal if the team was developed to get the best out of every one, but that simply doesn't work when you have an anomaly like Messi. It's the same with basketball and players like Lebron James for example. They bring so much to the team, but take away from their teammates ability to shine on their own. You take them away, and it take a big adjustment to get those teammates back to their level. But if you look at Madrid now, a guy like Benzema will probably have one of his best seasons in a Madrid shirt because his game is no longer neutered to be CR7's supplier, he's actually going to have to finish chances off himself now and so far he's doing pretty well because he's had a whole summer to prepare to his new role.
 
Dembele is such an awful player, he lose the ball way too often to play in a club like Barcelona, they will sell him next season for sure...headless chicken.
 
Dembele is such an awful player, he lose the ball way too often to play in a club like Barcelona, they will sell him next season for sure...headless chicken.
What?

I haven‘t watched the Girona match, but in all the other games of this season he was literally their 2nd best player. Why would they sell him when he is still very young and clearly as talented as anyone not named Mbappe in his age bracket
 
I remember very well them struggling, they would create chances but they'd draw games they would usually win with him. I'm not saying every game he wasn't playing (which was rare for him to miss games to begin with), but the few games I have seen him missing through suspension or injury, they would struggle more and where they usually would get a win, they'd end with a draw. Here's an example to refresh your memory.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...spension-how-much-have-real-madrid-missed-him
You're wrong. Dead wrong. We were worse without Cristiano, duh, but struggling? The sample size is small, given he played almost every game in 6 out of 9 seasons, but the W/D/L percentages with and without him are virtually identical

You use an example from early last season. We struggled throughout the entire first half of the season. 18 games with Cristiano, 9 wins...
 
You're wrong. Dead wrong. We were worse without Cristiano, duh, but struggling? The sample size is small, given he played almost every game in 6 out of 9 seasons, but the W/D/L percentages with and without him are virtually identical

You use an example from early last season. We struggled throughout the entire first half of the season. 18 games with Cristiano, 9 wins...

My simple point is that you take a guy out that scores 40-50 goals a season, you will feel its effect because players naturally build a dependency on that kind of constant output. I've seen Madrid lose or draw games they should have won with him on the field. You do at least admit you were worse, and that was my simple & obvious point. It's not a criticism of Real Madrid, it's just a reality every team of every sport will deal with when you're used to playing with an anomaly and you take them out of the gameplan. Hence why both Barcelona and Real Madrid would not play to the same level despite the rest of the team being brilliant. It takes a while to adjust and I think Barcelona will eventually be able to adjust without Messi as well because they have talented players, but if he goes down this season unexpectedly, they will struggle.

What?

I haven‘t watched the Girona match, but in all the other games of this season he was literally their 2nd best player. Why would they sell him when he is still very young and clearly as talented as anyone not named Mbappe in his age bracket

Obviously because that guy said so. :lol:

Such an awful player for the guy who's won them games, a trophy, and is their second highest scorer so far this season.
 
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Being worse and struggling are entirely different things. I don't know how barcelona did without Messi so i can't comment on that

But i do know that in the vast majority of games we played, Cristiano was replaceable. We were never as dependant on him as some people seem to believe. We always have had at least a couple other world class attacking players who could adequately fill his boots. Against 90% of opponents, we didn't really need Cris, having him was kind of overkill. He wasn't the difference between us beating or drawing against Getafe. He was the difference between us beating them 6-0 instead of 2-0
 
So this Madrid is practically last season‘s squad minus Ronaldo, no important new players added except for Courtois in goal who replaces a pretty fine keeper in Navas.

If they do win La Liga or the CL, does that change the retrospective look on the Ronaldo years, meaning he wasn‘t as decisive as everyone believed?

I think this logic is a bit weird, and I have troubles finding historical evidence for similar cases. Holland in 74 were 2nd in World Cup, and without Cruyff they were 2nd in 78. Yet no one can dispute the impact Cruyff had on Holland during his time.

Just wanted to hear you guys opinion on this argument, as I‘m still on the fence and I think the current form of Madrid has surpassed everything that was projected by those saying Madrid will struggle big time without Cristiano.
 
So this Madrid is practically last season‘s squad minus Ronaldo, no important new players added except for Courtois in goal who replaces a pretty fine keeper in Navas.

If they do win La Liga or the CL, does that change the retrospective look on the Ronaldo years, meaning he wasn‘t as decisive as everyone believed?

I think this logic is a bit weird, and I have troubles finding historical evidence for similar cases. Holland in 74 were 2nd in World Cup, and without Cruyff they were 2nd in 78. Yet no one can dispute the impact Cruyff had on Holland during his time.

Just wanted to hear you guys opinion on this argument, as I‘m still on the fence and I think the current form of Madrid has surpassed everything that was projected by those saying Madrid will struggle big time without Cristiano.
They'll be impacted. You don't lose your main forward and continue unperturbed. Even if you take out Modric from the team of the last few years, they don't win the CL IMO. You remove Xavi/Iniesta from Barca and they don't win as many CLs.

You could argue that Madrid's quality in general is pretty great and better than people acknowledge. However it's still a lesser football team without Ronaldo. And it'll show in the trophies/performances IMO.
 
We lost Ronaldo but we have a better goalkeeper now, a better coach (sorry for Zidane fanboys) and the best CB's and midfielders in Europe still. I can't see anyone beating us in the CL except Liverpool or Barcelona.
 
So this Madrid is practically last season‘s squad minus Ronaldo, no important new players added except for Courtois in goal who replaces a pretty fine keeper in Navas.

If they do win La Liga or the CL, does that change the retrospective look on the Ronaldo years, meaning he wasn‘t as decisive as everyone believed?

I think this logic is a bit weird, and I have troubles finding historical evidence for similar cases. Holland in 74 were 2nd in World Cup, and without Cruyff they were 2nd in 78. Yet no one can dispute the impact Cruyff had on Holland during his time.

Just wanted to hear you guys opinion on this argument, as I‘m still on the fence and I think the current form of Madrid has surpassed everything that was projected by those saying Madrid will struggle big time without Cristiano.
I don't think anyone rates Michael Laudrup less for not being a part of the 92' Denmark team that won the Euros. Sometimes shit happens.
 
Random question brought up by EA adding La Liga stadiums to the game, but is Real Betis like the Newcastle of Spain?

Their stadium is pretty damn big for a club that yo-yo’s a lot.
 
Random question brought up by EA adding La Liga stadiums to the game, but is Real Betis like the Newcastle of Spain?

Their stadium is pretty damn big for a club that yo-yo’s a lot.
Yes, it´s big, near 60.000, besides they have around 50.000 season ticket holders. For a small % but I would say that they are the most popular club in Sevilla
 
We lost Ronaldo but we have a better goalkeeper now, a better coach (sorry for Zidane fanboys) and the best CB's and midfielders in Europe still. I can't see anyone beating us in the CL except Liverpool or Barcelona.
Your keeper isn't much of an upgrade. Navas was brilliant in the big moments.

Better coach? A tad early to be rating Lopenobody higher than a 3 time CL winner?

You may achieve great things this season but the above seems a tad premature.
 
Your keeper isn't much of an upgrade. Navas was brilliant in the big moments.

Better coach? A tad early to be rating Lopenobody higher than a 3 time CL winner?

You may achieve great things this season but the above seems a tad premature.

At the moment they are playing very well. The press near the club says that since Mourinho they did not see someone so involved, working so hard. The players respond at the moment. Considering the sudden change they have welcomed the style of more possession and with some exceptions they press quite well.
He is also very concerned about the management of time/bench,something very important in my opinion .
Odriozola had to wait, Courtois didn´t automatically take the place and sent Vinicius to Castilla. I guess that he wants to show confidence to the squad, introducing gradually the new ones ( which on the other hand it seemed a bit forced by his insistence with Lucas Vázquez).
However, I have a certain feeling of distrust.Personally I still don´t connect with Lopetegui.
Zidane and Cristiano have left, and there is too much tranquility. It's as if we live - at least I - in a cloud where losing the supercopa is not even taken into account. Personally I need games against top rivals to get more conclusions. On Saturday derby against Atleti and today Sevilla should be good tests.
 
At the moment they are playing very well. The press near the club says that since Mourinho they did not see someone so involved, working so hard. The players respond at the moment. Considering the sudden change they have welcomed the style of more possession and with some exceptions they press quite well.
He is also very concerned about the management of time/bench,something very important in my opinion .
Odriozola had to wait, Courtois didn´t automatically take the place and sent Vinicius to Castilla. I guess that he wants to show confidence to the squad, introducing gradually the new ones ( which on the other hand it seemed a bit forced by his insistence with Lucas Vázquez).
However, I have a certain feeling of distrust.Personally I still don´t connect with Lopetegui.
Zidane and Cristiano have left, and there is too much tranquility. It's as if we live - at least I - in a cloud where losing the supercopa is not even taken into account. Personally I need games against top rivals to get more conclusions. On Saturday derby against Atleti and today Sevilla should be good tests.
All of this.

And i'm going to add that [bolded] was also said early on about Benitez, and we all saw how that went. At least Lopetegui has the blessing of Ramos, so he shouldn't go the way of Benitez
 
Dembele is such an awful player, he lose the ball way too often to play in a club like Barcelona, they will sell him next season for sure...headless chicken.

Dembele sometimes plays in a way that makes you think he isn't serious about the game, as in he loses the ball too easily and too often. This is ignored by many people, though, and I guess that's because Dembele is a breath of fresh air in Barça. These days, the team plays rather boring, passive football. The only time you'd stand up in excitement and expect something big to happen is when Messi gets the ball. The only other time you'd do this watching Barça is when Dembouz gets the ball because he's reckless enough to attempt something that will amaze the fans.
Valverde's Barça is not creative enough for Dembele to become a liability, it's the opposite - the team is defensive and boring enough that Dembele is a huge asset going forward because he can invent something crazy that normally wouldn't be attempted in a team with proper attacking organization. And our exploits going forward are based on individual quality rather than team structure.
 
We lost Ronaldo but we have a better goalkeeper now, a better coach (sorry for Zidane fanboys) and the best CB's and midfielders in Europe still. I can't see anyone beating us in the CL except Liverpool or Barcelona.
Jesus christ you madristas are so ungrateful. You guys cant even enjoy your succes. A coach better than Zidane. WTF.
 
When was the last time Barca played a great game away from home? Poor yet again tonight. Messi and Coutinho has been decent. Would like to see Malcom instead of Munir.
 
There it is again, Pique sucks big time.

Edit: He not only gifts another crucial goal, there he is trying to compensate his error by going forward to score, can't stand his way of covering mistakes, will cost us big time today or in the future.
 
Barca :wenger:

2 goals in a minute gives Legonas the lead.

The defending will be the downfall of Barca in the Champions League. They can outscore anyone, but they have a soft underbelly, and I reckon a well organized team will do them.
 
Don't understand what the hell Barca were thinking when they appointed Valverde. He's a very anti-Barca manager.
 
Wait, they're winning!?!?! VAMOS PEPINEROS, SIEMPRE CREI EN TI!!!!