Kylian Mbappe | PSG

Copying his moves? What moves are we talking about? Step-overs? The chop? I wouldn't call any of those his moves but the hairstyle, I get. But what you're mainly talking about is popularity, not actual talent evaluation. In 2006, you're not talking about prospects anymore, that conversation was in 2004 where they both pretty much broke out to the eyes of the world at the Euro. From that point until 2006-07 is when I'm saying Rooney was seen as the bigger prospect, at least by most people. Not the bigger star, not the flashiest, but simply the better, more efficient, more skilled (not in tricks and flicks but in overall game, passing, vision, etc) player out of the two.

That's my only point, I'm not discussing hype or popularity, but just this ridiculous notion that CR7 was this outstanding talent that everyone said would just be a matter of time until he was the best in the world. I remember that conversation about Messi or R9, and now Mbappe but not CR7. Obviously it doesn't mean anything as we see now 10 years on from their breakout seasons, but this revisionism of the talent level of CR7 is simply false, and if anything it takes away from just how much work he put in to go beyond the expectations the vast majority had of him as a player.



I can understand people being skeptical, because we are talking about two anomalies of football but that's just what it is, Mbappe (or Mcbappe) has the best chance out there and I wouldn't be surprised either. He's ahead of them in the CL at the same age by some margin, and has already accomplished things on the world cup stage that they have never (and probably never will) match, I'm not even talking about winning the world cup (because that's a team effort) but scoring goals in knock-out games, which neither of the two legends have ever done in their career (which is pretty shocking, to be fair to them).
Not sure it's the hate for CR7 or you just don't know much about football.

Ronaldo not an outstanding talent when he appeared? The lad had acceleration, pace, agility, power, height, great ball control, could shoot with both feet, free kicks...

Lucky for him SAF couldn't judge talent, despite wrecking one of United's great sides for Sporting.
 
Copying his moves? What moves are we talking about? Step-overs? The chop? I wouldn't call any of those his moves but the hairstyle, I get. But what you're mainly talking about is popularity, not actual talent evaluation. In 2006, you're not talking about prospects anymore, that conversation was in 2004 where they both pretty much broke out to the eyes of the world at the Euro. From that point until 2006-07 is when I'm saying Rooney was seen as the bigger prospect, at least by most people. Not the bigger star, not the flashiest, but simply the better, more efficient, more skilled (not in tricks and flicks but in overall game, passing, vision, etc) player out of the two.

That's my only point, I'm not discussing hype or popularity, but just this ridiculous notion that CR7 was this outstanding talent that everyone said would just be a matter of time until he was the best in the world. I remember that conversation about Messi or R9, and now Mbappe but not CR7. Obviously it doesn't mean anything as we see now 10 years on from their breakout seasons, but this revisionism of the talent level of CR7 is simply false, and if anything it takes away from just how much work he put in to go beyond the expectations the vast majority had of him as a player.



I can understand people being skeptical, because we are talking about two anomalies of football but that's just what it is, Mbappe (or Mcbappe) has the best chance out there and I wouldn't be surprised either. He's ahead of them in the CL at the same age by some margin, and has already accomplished things on the world cup stage that they have never (and probably never will) match, I'm not even talking about winning the world cup (because that's a team effort) but scoring goals in knock-out games, which neither of the two legends have ever done in their career (which is pretty shocking, to be fair to them).
I'm always with you on the Martial/Mourinho discussions but there are posts of me dating back to 2003-2005 (just before his breakout season) when I've defended him vs the masses that had their new English golden boy and analysed his amazing talent. There were a few with me, although many on the caf had jumped on the Rewnnnaayyy bandwagon already and we had a few summers (esp after the euros) with huge threads of the caf doing a Martial (ie, "get the lazy showpony outta here!").

I knew he would be a golden ball winner. I just didn't know he would go on to heavily feature in GOAT discussions though but that's not something you predict with any young talent.
 
I'm always with you on the Martial/Mourinho discussions but there are posts of me dating back to 2003-2005 (just before his breakout season) when I've defended him vs the masses that had their new English golden boy and analysed his amazing talent. There were a few with me, although many on the caf had jumped on the Rewnnnaayyy bandwagon already and we had a few summers (esp after the euros) with huge threads of the caf doing a Martial (ie, "get the lazy showpony outta here!").

I knew he would be a golden ball winner. I just didn't know he would go on to heavily feature in GOAT discussions though but that's not something you predict with any young talent.

I wasn't around on these boards obviously around that time, but I believe it. I don't know that I'd ever call CR7 lazy, but a showpony certainly. However, yours would not be a popular opinion, especially the golden ball idea as there was no indication he would become that kind of talent yet. It's akin to the people claiming Martial will win one someday. I love the kid, he's got plenty of talent himself, but it's just as unlikely as it was for CR7 to win one (despite having similar stats to CR7 in their first three years at the club). Rooney was both English and more precocious in his output than CR7 was at first so it was always going to be a losing battle on these boards, but you turned out to be right. What I'm saying is that all of the people who claim they knew all along, like yourself, were just hopeful. It was not a clear case for him as it would be for a R9 for example. That is an example for me of an outstanding talent, where it just jumps right at you and this is someone that even with his flaws (which he didn't have much of from the age of 19-20 onwards) was unstoppable. That is not what CR7 was coming into England. Which is why I'm disputing the 'freak talent' people mentioned. He was no more special than Quaresma coming out of Portugal who many thought (right or wrong) was more talented.

Not sure it's the hate for CR7 or you just don't know much about football.

Ronaldo not an outstanding talent when he appeared? The lad had acceleration, pace, agility, power, height, great ball control, could shoot with both feet, free kicks...

Lucky for him SAF couldn't judge talent, despite wrecking one of United's great sides for Sporting.

Yes, it's either I hate CR7 or I don't know football.

We have different definitions of outstanding talent.

But good talking to you.
 
Copying his moves? What moves are we talking about? Step-overs? The chop? I wouldn't call any of those his moves but the hairstyle, I get. But what you're mainly talking about is popularity, not actual talent evaluation. In 2006, you're not talking about prospects anymore, that conversation was in 2004 where they both pretty much broke out to the eyes of the world at the Euro. From that point until 2006-07 is when I'm saying Rooney was seen as the bigger prospect, at least by most people. Not the bigger star, not the flashiest, but simply the better, more efficient, more skilled (not in tricks and flicks but in overall game, passing, vision, etc) player out of the two.

That's my only point, I'm not discussing hype or popularity, but just this ridiculous notion that CR7 was this outstanding talent that everyone said would just be a matter of time until he was the best in the world. I remember that conversation about Messi or R9, and now Mbappe but not CR7. Obviously it doesn't mean anything as we see now 10 years on from their breakout seasons, but this revisionism of the talent level of CR7 is simply false, and if anything it takes away from just how much work he put in to go beyond the expectations the vast majority had of him as a player.



I can understand people being skeptical, because we are talking about two anomalies of football but that's just what it is, Mbappe (or Mcbappe) has the best chance out there and I wouldn't be surprised either. He's ahead of them in the CL at the same age by some margin, and has already accomplished things on the world cup stage that they have never (and probably never will) match, I'm not even talking about winning the world cup (because that's a team effort) but scoring goals in knock-out games, which neither of the two legends have ever done in their career (which is pretty shocking, to be fair to them).

Still disagree. Cristiano always seemed head and shoulders above Rooney to me and also to most football fans I spoke to back then, too. Everyone talked about Ronaldo and the player he'll become back then. Really can't say the same about Rooney honestly. I never rated him personally and when I started reading this board I was totally suprised about the reputation he had in Britain back then. I wouldn't even have conaidered it a possibility that anybody at any point throughout their careers had geniunely thought Rooney was the greater talent.
 
I'm not sure if Mbappe has the fire in him to keep going strong for another decade.
 
If there is one thing that he has it's fire.
For now yeah. But to sustain this level for a whole decade? Would be great for us football fans obviously, because I do enjoy watching him play.
 
For now yeah. But to sustain this level for a whole decade? Would be great for us football fans obviously, because I do enjoy watching him play.

Your question is on the present tense, it leads to think that you are questioning is current fire not if he will keep it. No one can really tell if he will keep it or if he is going to sustain an injury or become addict to substances.
 
I'm not sure if Mbappe has the fire in him to keep going strong for another decade.

Sure

830x532_tres-rapide-kylian-mbappe.jpg
 
Your question is on the present tense, it leads to think that you are questioning is current fire not if he will keep it. No one can really tell if he will keep it or if he is going to sustain an injury or become addict to substances.
Didn't I imply that when I said "fire in him to keep going strong for another decade" ?
 
Already done too much at the highest levels to "flame out". Multiple title winner, world cup, CL top scorer all before 20. He's as sure thing as Phil Jones picking up a "knock" and being out for 6 weeks

Not really. If you told anyone in 2001 that Owen would be washed up before the age of 27 and playing for Newcastle, you would have been laughed out of the room. I think there are two different conversations going on here.

Will Mbappe become a great player? Most likely yes
Will he be able to maintain that level of performance for a decade or more like Messi and Ronaldo have done? Most likely, No.

The list of absolutely world class players who shone bright from early days and burned out by the time they were 29/30/31 is far longer than the list of guys who did it from their teens to their 30s. Off the top of my head I can think of Rooney, Beckham, Ronaldo (Brazilian), Ronaldinho, Kaka, Sol Campbell, Pires, Ljungberg, Torres Overmars, Shevchenko, Raul, Casillas, Etoo and Henry. A lot of CL winners, ballon d'or winners and one or two world cup winners on that list as well. My assessment might be a bit harsh on Beckham but I think the rest are accurate.

Beyond the obvious two, I can think of Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard, Lampard, Pirlo, Zlatan, Zidane and Scholes who maintained their level throughout their career

Most of the top players that burn out quickly are strikers or forward players. Right now I can only think of Zlatan as someone who maintained his performance levels. The likes of Suarez and Drogba were lateish bloomers. If Mbappe can perform as a world class striker from now till he's 32/33 then hats off to him but he's got a long career ahead of him.
 
Not really. If you told anyone in 2001 that Owen would be washed up before the age of 27 and playing for Newcastle, you would have been laughed out of the room. I think there are two different conversations going on here.

Will Mbappe become a great player? Most likely yes
Will he be able to maintain that level of performance for a decade or more like Messi and Ronaldo have done? Most likely, No.

The list of absolutely world class players who shone bright from early days and burned out by the time they were 29/30/31 is far longer than the list of guys who did it from their teens to their 30s. Off the top of my head I can think of Rooney, Beckham, Ronaldo (Brazilian), Ronaldinho, Kaka, Sol Campbell, Pires, Ljungberg, Torres Overmars, Shevchenko, Raul, Casillas, Etoo and Henry. A lot of CL winners, ballon d'or winners and one or two world cup winners on that list as well. My assessment might be a bit harsh on Beckham but I think the rest are accurate.

Beyond the obvious two, I can think of Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard, Lampard, Pirlo, Zlatan, Zidane and Scholes who maintained their level throughout their career

Most of the top players that burn out quickly are strikers or forward players. Right now I can only think of Zlatan as someone who maintained his performance levels. The likes of Suarez and Drogba were lateish bloomers. If Mbappe can perform as a world class striker from now till he's 32/33 then hats off to him but he's got a long career ahead of him.
I guess we should of established what you meant by "flame out". I assumed you thought we could fade out like Quaresma or someone
 
Still disagree. Cristiano always seemed head and shoulders above Rooney to me and also to most football fans I spoke to back then, too. Everyone talked about Ronaldo and the player he'll become back then. Really can't say the same about Rooney honestly. I never rated him personally and when I started reading this board I was totally suprised about the reputation he had in Britain back then. I wouldn't even have conaidered it a possibility that anybody at any point throughout their careers had geniunely thought Rooney was the greater talent.

Sorry but did you watch football from 2004-2006? Rooney was known to non footy fans as well. The hype was incredible and he was thought as the next massive thing.

06/07 is when Ronaldo finally stood up
 
It's not about the fire, he isn't talented enough to be as good as peak CR7/Messi.

He has the drive and the professionalism though.

He is a football obsessed person, his mother was a professional handball player in the 1990s and his father is a football educator.
 
Not really. If you told anyone in 2001 that Owen would be washed up before the age of 27 and playing for Newcastle, you would have been laughed out of the room. I think there are two different conversations going on here.

Will Mbappe become a great player? Most likely yes
Will he be able to maintain that level of performance for a decade or more like Messi and Ronaldo have done? Most likely, No.

The list of absolutely world class players who shone bright from early days and burned out by the time they were 29/30/31 is far longer than the list of guys who did it from their teens to their 30s. Off the top of my head I can think of Rooney, Beckham, Ronaldo (Brazilian), Ronaldinho, Kaka, Sol Campbell, Pires, Ljungberg, Torres Overmars, Shevchenko, Raul, Casillas, Etoo and Henry. A lot of CL winners, ballon d'or winners and one or two world cup winners on that list as well. My assessment might be a bit harsh on Beckham but I think the rest are accurate.

Beyond the obvious two, I can think of Xavi, Iniesta, Gerrard, Lampard, Pirlo, Zlatan, Zidane and Scholes who maintained their level throughout their career

Most of the top players that burn out quickly are strikers or forward players. Right now I can only think of Zlatan as someone who maintained his performance levels. The likes of Suarez and Drogba were lateish bloomers. If Mbappe can perform as a world class striker from now till he's 32/33 then hats off to him but he's got a long career ahead of him.

I agree with this post fully but just to defend Rooney let's also consider he started ripping it up when he was 16. His career top was longer than what of usually seen
 
Sorry but did you watch football from 2004-2006? Rooney was known to non footy fans as well. The hype was incredible and he was thought as the next massive thing.

06/07 is when Ronaldo finally stood up

Again, this may be true for England respectively Englisg speaking countries in general but here you had a hard time finding anyone who thought Rooney was the greater prospect after Euro 2004. He may have scored more goals than Cristiano but in every other aspect of the game it was obvious who was the better player. And as I said, you didn't measure talent or performances in scorers as much as you do today.

He definitely exceeded expectations as literally nobody had thought he would turn into a 40+ goals a season striker who for a very long time also dribbled and created on an extremely high level. But everyone here expected him to become a best in the world candidate but more in a Luis Figo or maybe even Ronaldinho kind of way.
 
I'm German too and back then I'd definitely say that both players (CR7 and Rooney) were rated quite similarly, with both potentially becoming Balon D'Or candidates at some time in their respective careers, but more akin to someone like Figo/Kaka as you said, not an all-time great and it was far from certain that they eventually would. Ronaldo was a huge talent but not an exceptional one, Quaresma wasn't any less talented tbh. Messi however would always look a dead cert to be the best in the world, a once in a decade talent like Luiz Ronaldo. Mbappé is in the CR7/Rooney/Neymar bracket rather than Messi/Ronaldo, IMO.
 
Lots and lots of revisionism in this thread or plain incorrect posts. Fascinating to read, though.

Still don't think Mbappe is what a lot of you tout him as, but interested to see if he becomes it.
 
My take on this is that the most gifted young footballers I have seen are messi and the Brazilian Ronaldo.

The Brazilian was a monster physically while messi always had better vision and passing ability. The Brazilian was also more flamboyant with the tricks to beat his marker while messi has always about pure close control dribbling. 2 different but very naturally gifted footballers.

Mbappe is very good but technically not on their level. His biggest strengths are his speed and an eye for goal. He has decent skills as well.

Cristiano was the most infuriating footballer ever: inconsistent, running into blind alleys, losing possession time after time.
 
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Messi at the age of 17 was already nicknamed the "next Maradona" IIRC, but the same had been also said about players like Saviola

Regarding Cristiano Ronaldo, he was the best player at the Euro 2004, or at least the most impressive player for me.

M'bappé will be deployed as the main central striker sooner or later for the vast majority of his caree: he will replace Cavani (32 years next February) and then will move abroad in 2020 or 2021 IMO

So he should be compared with other central scorers like Henry, Scheva, Papin, Suarez, Cavani, Lewandoski, R9...

Last but not least, R9 is the greatest player of the last 20 years.
 
Again, this may be true for England respectively Englisg speaking countries in general but here you had a hard time finding anyone who thought Rooney was the greater prospect after Euro 2004. He may have scored more goals than Cristiano but in every other aspect of the game it was obvious who was the better player. And as I said, you didn't measure talent or performances in scorers as much as you do today.

He definitely exceeded expectations as literally nobody had thought he would turn into a 40+ goals a season striker who for a very long time also dribbled and created on an extremely high level. But everyone here expected him to become a best in the world candidate but more in a Luis Figo or maybe even Ronaldinho kind of way.

I can accept if it was your opinion but I wont buy the thing about "only in England" because for one, I wasnt in England back then and second, I had a very international mix of friends who I watched the euro with. For a fact in France, Greece heck even India Rooney was talked about a lot. I remember Ronaldo would be referred to as that "up and coming Portuguese kid" or "he has to be gay" by the idiotic haters.

I like reading your posts man but recently you said kroos > scheeinsteiger in Germany so I ain't buying the Ronaldo > Rooney before 2006!
 
Messi at the age of 17 was already nicknamed the "next Maradona" IIRC, but the same had been also said about players like Saviola

Regarding Cristiano Ronaldo, he was the best player at the Euro 2004, or at least the most impressive player for me.

M'bappé will be deployed as the main central striker sooner or later for the vast majority of his caree: he will replace Cavani (32 years next February) and then will move abroad in 2020 or 2021 IMO

So he should be compared with other central scorers like Henry, Scheva, Papin, Suarez, Cavani, Lewandoski, R9...

Last but not least, R9 is the greatest player of the last 20 years.

If you've seen both Messi and Ronaldo play and seen what they've achieved dont even get how this is said.

A high peak doesnt make a great.
 
From France I'm under the impression that Rooney and Ronaldo were seen as equals.
 
If my memory is not wrong, I remember back then Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi were widely regarded as 3 of the best wonderkid in football.
 
Again, this may be true for England respectively Englisg speaking countries in general but here you had a hard time finding anyone who thought Rooney was the greater prospect after Euro 2004. He may have scored more goals than Cristiano but in every other aspect of the game it was obvious who was the better player. And as I said, you didn't measure talent or performances in scorers as much as you do today.

He definitely exceeded expectations as literally nobody had thought he would turn into a 40+ goals a season striker who for a very long time also dribbled and created on an extremely high level. But everyone here expected him to become a best in the world candidate but more in a Luis Figo or maybe even Ronaldinho kind of way.
Speak for yourself mate. I'm from a french country and in my country many people watched La Liga more than PL, and I can tell you very well that back in 2004 Rooney was seen as the better players, not the most skillfull but basically the perfect young player and many people were running to buy his jersey. And he was a star that even my sister who wasn't a pure fan of football completely loved Rooney back then. That Euro 2003 he drove peopke crazy and the consensus was that England have got the next Ronaldo.

Of course Ronaldo went on to become the better player, but back then he was just another skillfull portiguese player.
 
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I can accept if it was your opinion but I wont buy the thing about "only in England" because for one, I wasnt in England back then and second, I had a very international mix of friends who I watched the euro with. For a fact in France, Greece heck even India Rooney was talked about a lot. I remember Ronaldo would be referred to as that "up and coming Portuguese kid" or "he has to be gay" by the idiotic haters.

I like reading your posts man but recently you said kroos > scheeinsteiger in Germany so I ain't buying the Ronaldo > Rooney before 2006!

He can only speak for himself. Almost everyone in Germany thinks Schweinsteiger > Kroos

In my opinion back then both were regarded as hugely talented and maybe Ronaldo was the one seen as having a bit more natural talent, but never to the extent that he was clearly far superior to Rooney. Ronaldo was of course hugely popular, but Rooney has always been respected big time during the mid 2000s. German football looked up to the Prem in the mid 2000s in many ways and Rooney was one of the Prem's biggest faces.
 
Its easy 2 all time great goalscorers.
One is also arguably the best playmaker of his generation too the other is not.
No, "its" not easy. At 23 or older Messi was better (Ronaldo missed almost the whole year he was 23 and wasn't the same afterwards). I'm talking about the ages 19-22. Ronaldo was better.
 
If you've seen both Messi and Ronaldo play and seen what they've achieved dont even get how this is said.

A high peak doesnt make a great.

But (very unpopular opinion coming)... What did Messi really achieved oustide of Liga since 2011? One CL with a dream attack with top notch Suarez and Neymar, and that's pretty much it. Yes he scores, but he has a tendancy to disapear when it really matters, with Barcelona and with Argentina, for a long while now. He's a phenomenal player there's no doubt about that but at one point you need to look at the results in big games.


And to give a french perspective, here, Rooney was rated higher than Ronaldo back in 2004.
 
As I said Ronaldo got injured a month after turning 23. But 19, 20, 21, 22 I'm convinced Ronaldo was better. Besides, I'm not sure how you've gained this unerring objective perspective on reality when you say that 'it's hard to distinguish personal preference and actual reality' and follow it up with 'but in reality there’s absolutely no room for comparison...'

He was. I havent seen a player since Maradona as far above everyone else as he was for that handful of years.

Mbappe is some way off both of them.
 
If you've seen both Messi and Ronaldo play and seen what they've achieved dont even get how this is said. A high peak doesnt make a great.

All the players you mentioned are great players.

There is no debate at all even if any ranking is based on very diverse subjective and objective criteria.

I think I don't need to explain why I rate R9 so highly!
 
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No, "its" not easy. At 23 or older Messi was better (Ronaldo missed almost the whole year he was 23 and wasn't the same afterwards). I'm talking about the ages 19-22. Ronaldo was better.
Messi won balon dor at 21
Which ronaldo are you on about ?
 
You make it sound as if I'm talking about Inzaghi. You're either being disingenuous when you say Ronaldo was "out and out" striker or you have only watched him after the injury. You talk about Messi running the game from the wing. Ronaldo would constantly drop deep into midfield and wings, and take on the whole on team with his insane dribbling ability and speed or make passes after drawing midfielders and defenders then get on the end of the moves he's started. Messi was on a team with several players who have redefined their position on arguably the best footballing team ever, and even without taking that context into consideration Ronaldo was better from 19-22.

You’re talking to someone who first got into Ronaldo when he was at PSV. I know all about him, what he’s capable of and in my opinion it wasn’t quite as good as Messi age 21-23. He was more a number 9 than anything else, I know because I watched full games involving him and not his YouTube highlights like you clearly have based on your comments here. You’ll find videos of every attacker dropping deep and passing the ball in midfield but for most of every game he played in, Ronaldo was the furthest man forward.
 
None were/are as good as Messi. None of them have the wide range of attributes and consistency he has had. Cristiano Ronaldo matched the consistency but wasn't as talented or as good a as creative player.

Mbappe is a much more linear player and would lose a lot from his game if he lost a yard or two.