Kylian Mbappe | PSG

MaxiPaxi said:
I remember that summer very well. God, how exciting it was for us to sign him. I remember not being able to wait until that game against Fener. And after, well I think I spent weeks pretending I was Rooney when kicking the ball (I was 14) about with my mates.

Imagine if we had Twitter etc in those days. The hype would have been mental about him.
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I think Rooney landed back on earth after that and became aware of himself. Psychologically he never had Messi's otherworldly emotional equilibrium or Ronaldo's unrelenting tunnel vision and drive. He was more conflicted as a person and had his off pitch issues. He was too fond of his cigarettes, food and booze. His form became patchy seemed to crash after amazing runs of performances.

He still had a fantastic career though.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I think Rooney landed back on earth after that and became aware of himself. Psychologically he never had Messi's otherworldly emotional equilibrium or Ronaldo's unrelenting tunnel vision and drive. He was more conflicted as a person and had his off pitch issues. He was too fond of his cigarettes, food and booze. His form became patchy seemed to crash after amazing runs of performances.

He still had a fantastic career though.
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Yeah I agree with that. Couple of injuries in key parts of his career didn't help either. Game at Stamford Bridge in 2006 right before the World Cup and in quarters vs Bayern. Those two injuries set him back or put him out of rhythm if you like.
 
giorno said:
Uh? Ronaldo destroyed his knee, Rooney was the bigger talent than who?

Reaching Messi/Cristiano levels is one thing but it's very rare for players that good at that age to not become all time greats
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That last part doesn‘t hold the test of time. Look back 5 years ago. The best talents were Neymar, Hazard, Goetze, Pogba, Isco, Thiago and Verratti. Hazard did more in France than Mbappe did. Goetze was the biggest german talent since the 70s. Verratti was supposed to be the next Pirlo and Thiago was seen as the successor to Xavi. Fast forward and none of those players realized their full potential. Neymar is the exception and he won‘t reach All time great level if he doesn‘t win the WC.

It is not even that those players were misjudged, they are supremely talented and have the gifts to be all time greats. It just didn‘t came together for them for one reason or another.
 
Don Alfredo said:
That last part doesn‘t hold the test of time. Look back 5 years ago. The best talents were Neymar, Hazard, Goetze, Pogba, Isco, Thiago and Verratti. Hazard did more in France than Mbappe did. Goetze was the biggest german talent since the 70s. Verratti was supposed to be the next Pirlo and Thiago was seen as the successor to Xavi. Fast forward and none of those players realized their full potential. Neymar is the exception and he won‘t reach All time great level if he doesn‘t win the WC.

It is not even that those players were misjudged, they are supremely talented and have the gifts to be all time greats. It just didn‘t came together for them for one reason or another.
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Of all those guys the only one comparable to Mbappé is Neymar. The others weren't anywhere near this good at that age.

Also, the Rooney vs Messi comparison is definitely a british thing. Rooney was an incredibly exciting talent. Messi...pretty much everyone who saw him at 18 thought "potential best ever".
 
giorno said:
Of all those guys the only one comparable to Mbappé is Neymar. The others weren't anywhere near this good at that age.

Also, the Rooney vs Messi comparison is definitely a british thing. Rooney was an incredibly exciting talent. Messi...pretty much everyone who saw him at 18 thought "potential best ever".
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Hazard was that good but he had question marks about his attitude outside of Lille and Garcia's disciplinary bubble.
 
giorno said:
Of all those guys the only one comparable to Mbappé is Neymar. The others weren't anywhere near this good at that age.

Also, the Rooney vs Messi comparison is definitely a british thing. Rooney was an incredibly exciting talent. Messi...pretty much everyone who saw him at 18 thought "potential best ever".
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To your average fan back then Rooney and Messi were in the same bucket. As ridiculous as it is and sounds
 
giorno said:
Of all those guys the only one comparable to Mbappé is Neymar. The others weren't anywhere near this good at that age.

Also, the Rooney vs Messi comparison is definitely a british thing. Rooney was an incredibly exciting talent. Messi...pretty much everyone who saw him at 18 thought "potential best ever".
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Hazard and Gotze were.
 
To be honest he is nowhere near as good as the 19 year old Brazilian Ronaldo, that player was already the best player in the world by that time.
 
The R9 comparisons are mad. I get that he is fast, powerful and skillful but R9 was already the best player in the world and was hitting a goal a game as a centre forward. As crazy as it sounds (the stuff of legends and nostalgia) he was better than virtually all the current forwards playing today, hence why he was il Fenomeno. He scored 47 goals in his debut season in Spain as a 19 year old (Cristiano numbers). this was an era where 1 in 2 was a top striker.
That said, Mbappe will reach the very top soon enough.
 
giorno said:
Of all those guys the only one comparable to Mbappé is Neymar. The others weren't anywhere near this good at that age.

Also, the Rooney vs Messi comparison is definitely a british thing. Rooney was an incredibly exciting talent. Messi...pretty much everyone who saw him at 18 thought "potential best ever".
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I disagree. Götze and Hazard were ridiculously good. They never had Mbappe's pace but are far better technicians and thus better dribblers in tight spaces. Götze's close control, first touch and short passing skills were just insane. Neymar ultimately turned out as the best of the three, Hazard made it into a very, very, very good player and Götze unfortunately has health problems that held him back. But still he scored a WC winner goal and was the best player of the CL finalist Dortmund, dominating sides like Madrid and City aged 20/21.

I would also put Isco up there talent-wise, although he never had this hype around him. But at this moment, he may as well be the best technician in the game alongside probably Thiago, Neymar and Messi. There are very few players capable of doing the things Isco is with a ball at his feet.
 
giorno said:
To your average english fan, maybe
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In 2006, Messi was a nobody at the stage of World football. A footnote at Argentina and Barca. He was seen as a great talent, but not as a great player just yet whereas Rooney commanded much respect already. Messi played very little for Barca, under 1.000 minutes in the league and didn't play in the CL knockout stage after the last 16. Rooney was an established top player in the PL (then the best league in the world) and for Man Utd with 19 goals and 10 assists in all comps.

So yes there was even a stage where Rooney was ahead in terms of his stature.
 
Don Alfredo said:
In 2006, Messi was a nobody at the stage of World football. A footnote at Argentina and Barca. He was seen as a great talent, but not as a great player just yet whereas Rooney commanded much respect already. Messi played very little for Barca, under 1.000 minutes in the league and didn't play in the CL knockout stage after the last 16. Rooney was an established top player in the PL (then the best league in the world) and for Man Utd with 19 goals and 10 assists in all comps.

So yes there was even a stage where Rooney was ahead in terms of his stature.
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Funny thing is that back in those days Messi always used to pick Rooney in his dream teams. Said that he's the 'strongest' player he's ever faced. Young Rooney brought a lot more than goals and assists. He played with a rare intensity and work rate. It lifted the crowd and his teammates but boiled over sometimes.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
He was voted the 'Golden Boy' in 2004 by journalists across Europe. 1 year before Messi. Ronaldo never won it.
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Yes, Rooney was recognized as an incredible talent. Messi was "he's going to be the best ever" stuff. Big difference
Don Alfredo said:
In 2006, Messi was a nobody at the stage of World football. A footnote at Argentina and Barca. He was seen as a great talent, but not as a great player just yet whereas Rooney commanded much respect already. Messi played very little for Barca, under 1.000 minutes in the league and didn't play in the CL knockout stage after the last 16. Rooney was an established top player in the PL (then the best league in the world) and for Man Utd with 19 goals and 10 assists in all comps.

So yes there was even a stage where Rooney was ahead in terms of his stature.
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Messi got injured against Chelsea. That's the reason he didn't play that much, he literally wasn't available for the last 4 months of the season. At 18 he was a starter for the best team in the world and already capable of overshadowing ronaldinho. Anybody could see 18 year old Messi was going to become better than Dinho within a couple years. Dinho himself thought so. And Pekerman was massively criticized for underusing him in Germany. It was clear he was already a better player than Saviola. Rooney never had the same kind of hype as Messi outside of england, and understandably so. Rooney was like Owen, Raul. Great, but hardly the potential to reach Pelé or Maradona. Messi was pretty much expected to reach that level, barring injuries or bad mentality
 
giorno said:
Yes, Rooney was recognized as an incredible talent. Messi was "he's going to be the best ever" stuff. Big difference

Messi got injured against Chelsea. That's the reason he didn't play that much, he literally wasn't available for the last 4 months of the season. At 18 he was a starter for the best team in the world and already capable of overshadowing ronaldinho. Anybody could see 18 year old Messi was going to become better than Dinho within a couple years. Dinho himself thought so. And Pekerman was massively criticized for underusing him in Germany. It was clear he was already a better player than Saviola. Rooney never had the same kind of hype as Messi outside of england, and understandably so. Rooney was like Owen, Raul. Great, but hardly the potential to reach Pelé or Maradona. Messi was pretty much expected to reach that level, barring injuries or bad mentality
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Again, in the United States Rooney had incredible hype and also in Asia. I do agree even in 2006 Messi was regarded as the next big thing but till 2006/07 Rooney had as much if not more stature.

I know it just sounds ridiculous now but that was the case.
 
giorno said:
Yes, Rooney was recognized as an incredible talent. Messi was "he's going to be the best ever" stuff. Big difference

Messi got injured against Chelsea. That's the reason he didn't play that much, he literally wasn't available for the last 4 months of the season. At 18 he was a starter for the best team in the world and already capable of overshadowing ronaldinho. Anybody could see 18 year old Messi was going to become better than Dinho within a couple years. Dinho himself thought so. And Pekerman was massively criticized for underusing him in Germany. It was clear he was already a better player than Saviola. Rooney never had the same kind of hype as Messi outside of england, and understandably so. Rooney was like Owen, Raul. Great, but hardly the potential to reach Pelé or Maradona. Messi was pretty much expected to reach that level, barring injuries or bad mentality
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I think you went a bit overboard with Messi's contribution in that season. He played just over 900 minutes in the league, that means just 10 league games. I won't say he wasn't seen as a big talent, but he was just that. Playing 10 games is in no way comparable to Rooney being one of the best players in the best league in the world.

I won't say Rooney was the bigger talent cause he wasn't, but Messi was really not that big in world football as you want to present him. A non-factor at the 2006 World Cup and no big part in Barcelona's CL win meant that not many fans thought about him. I am talking about the big masses(not only english), who knew Ronaldo and Rooney since their great performances at Euros 2004 and both were regarded as great players at the 2006 WC already. Just a few people talked about Messi that year who weren't fans of Argentina or Barca. In no way comparable to what Luiz Ronaldo did when he was 18 and much less contribution then what Kylian does now, rocking the World Cup aged 19.
 
Rooney had a fantastic career for United but his peak was relatively unimpressive. Many many players had better individual seasons than Rooney's best. Fecking Salah had a better season than Rooney ever had. Same with Diego Costa when Atleti won La Liga and reached the CL final. Rooney was consistenly one of the top 10 forwards for nearly a decade which makes him a better player than footballers with better individual seasons. But his peak wansn't really spectacular and doesn't suggest a huge potential.
 
In 05-06 Season: Rooney > Messi > Luiz Ronaldo > Mbappe

At 19yo: Luiz Ronaldo > Mbappe > Messi > Rooney

Overall: Messi > Ronaldo > Rooney > Mbappe (He's 19 lads, has his career ahead of him)
 
shamans said:
If we can all just speak for our respective countries then here in America too and like I said, look at FIFA or FM ratings during that time which best reflect public sentiment.
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Fair enough, you're right about that. My point stands though. As far as Italy is concerned, the perception regarding rooney in 2004 and 2005 was "best case scenario, if everything goes right he'll reach the level of Best/Eusebio/Van Basten". With Messi, in 2005 it was "if everything goes right he goes on the pedestal right next to Pelé and Maradona. And possibly higher"
 
Mbape is 19 years old and suddenly compared with players that already played at the top for more than 10 seasons.

Everyday stuff on caf.
When Mbappe will be 30 and will achieve shite in this game we can talk about it.
 
giorno said:
Yes, Rooney was recognized as an incredible talent. Messi was "he's going to be the best ever" stuff. Big difference
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I don't recall people saying that about Messi. Yes, after he scored that clone of Maradona's goal against England at WC86 people were saying that he would become the best in the world but best ever? It was more by 2010 when his fellow pros were saying 'he's an alien, a playstation player etc'.

I read an interview with a lad who came through La Masia with him but ended up playing lower levels, like a contrast of experiences piece, this lad said he never thought for one second that Messi would become the best in the world, let alone the best ever, when the were at La Masia together.

Messi has amazing technical qualities but a number of players do, what you just can't predict, ever, is that a player will be able to show their best form as consistently as Messi did. That is the rare thing.
 
Laurentiu amt said:
Mbape is 19 years old and suddenly compared with players that already played at the top for more than 10 seasons.

Everyday stuff on caf.
When Mbappe will be 30 and will achieve shite in this game we can talk about it.
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To be fair, they're comparing Mbappe to them when they were also in their teens, not as the finished articles. We just have the benefit of knowing where all those players ended up. It's a fun, harmless debate.
 
Laurentiu amt said:
Mbape is 19 years old and suddenly compared with players that already played at the top for more than 10 seasons.

Everyday stuff on caf.
When Mbappe will be 30 and will achieve shite in this game we can talk about it.
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Might as well not speculate and discuss anything then and leave it till everyone achieves what they have to.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I don't recall people saying that about Messi. Yes, after he scored that clone of Maradona's goal against England at WC86 people were saying that he would become the best in the world but best ever? It was more by 2010 when his fellow pros were saying 'he's an alien, a playstation player etc'.

I read an interview with a lad who came through La Masia with him but ended up playing lower levels, like a contrast of experiences piece, this lad said he never thought for one second that Messi would become the best in the world, let alone the best ever, when the were at La Masia together.

Messi has amazing technical qualities but a number of players do, what you just can't predict, ever, is that a player will be able to show their best form as consistently as Messi did. That is the rare thing.
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Actually in 2006 Maradona said Messi is my successor and I do agree people thought he would be the next massive player. I just don't agree with the posters that say in 2004 and 2005 everyone thought the same.
 
Jam said:
In 05-06 Season: Rooney > Messi > Luiz Ronaldo > Mbappe

At 19yo: Luiz Ronaldo > Mbappe > Messi > Rooney

Overall: Messi > Ronaldo > Rooney > Mbappe (He's 19 lads, has his career ahead of him)
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I don't remember anyone around me rated Rooney in China or Canada back then, and Luiz Ronaldo before his knee injury is the best striker i have ever seen. Power, pace, dribbling, free kick, good with both feet...he had it all back then. Mbappe is just like a young Henry.
 
KM said:
You convincingly missed the post where in a poll 87% people said that Mbappe was better and that was one year ago. Stop posting bullshit. Mbappe is always favored heavily in these threads and rightly so.
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I said that posters on here think Rashford is better, which is correct, not that every poster, nor even a majority, thinks that he is.
 
shamans said:
Actually in 2006 Maradona said Messi is my successor and I do agree people thought he would be the next massive player. I just don't agree with the posters that say in 2004 and 2005 everyone thought the same.
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Not everyone but his performance vs Chelsea in 2005 was absolutely fantastic. I remember how impressed I was with it. Couldn't believe that he could be so good at 18.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Yeah I agree with that. Couple of injuries in key parts of his career didn't help either. Game at Stamford Bridge in 2006 right before the World Cup and in quarters vs Bayern. Those two injuries set him back or put him out of rhythm if you like.
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He was rushed back too quickly after both of those injuries, that really fecked him I think.
 
shamans said:
Actually in 2006 Maradona said Messi is my successor and I do agree people thought he would be the next massive player. I just don't agree with the posters that say in 2004 and 2005 everyone thought the same.
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Maradona also said that Rooney was better than Kaka when the latter won his Ballon D'Or. Same interview he said that the three best Argentinians were Aguero, Riquleme and Messi.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/2943022/maradona-rooney-better-than-kaka
 
Don Alfredo said:
I think you went a bit overboard with Messi's contribution in that season. He played just over 900 minutes in the league, that means just 10 league games. I won't say he wasn't seen as a big talent, but he was just that. Playing 10 games is in no way comparable to Rooney being one of the best players in the best league in the world.

I won't say Rooney was the bigger talent cause he wasn't, but Messi was really not that big in world football as you want to present him. A non-factor at the 2006 World Cup and no big part in Barcelona's CL win meant that not many fans thought about him. I am talking about the big masses(not only english), who knew Ronaldo and Rooney since their great performances at Euros 2004 and both were regarded as great players at the 2006 WC already. Just a few people talked about Messi that year who weren't fans of Argentina or Barca. In no way comparable to what Luiz Ronaldo did when he was 18 and much less contribution then what Kylian does now, rocking the World Cup aged 19.
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Messi aged 19 finished third in the Ballon D'Or (ahead of Ronaldinho and many more brillant players), had just scored his famous Maradona-esque goal vs. Getafe and had 14 goals in 26 appearences for a very bad Barca side as a winger. If Mbappe keeps this level at the WC then fair enough but as of now, 19 year old Messi is ahead as a player if you ask me. No question about Ronaldo though, the guy was truly a phenomenon and the greatest talent ever for me.
 
Zehner said:
Messi aged 19 finished third in the Ballon D'Or (ahead of Ronaldinho and many more brillant players), had just scored his famous Maradona-esque goal vs. Getafe and had 14 goals in 26 appearences for a very bad Barca side as a winger. If Mbappe keeps this level at the WC then fair enough but as of now, 19 year old Messi is ahead as a player if you ask me. No question about Ronaldo though, the guy was truly a phenomenon and the greatest talent ever for me.
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I don't think doing it against Getafe is nearly as good as doing it against Argentina in a knockout game at the WC. I can't even remember a better performance from Messi at the World Cup than the one Kylian just had.

Mbappe outperformed Messi at the WC at the same age and he outperformed him in the CL at the same age.

Messi aged 18 in the CL: 5 games 1 goal
Mbappe aged 18 in the CL: 9 games 6 goals
Messi aged 19 in the CL: 5 games 1 goal
Mbappe aged 19 in the CL: 8 games 4 goals

Before 2009, Messi only ever scored 2 goals in the CL knockout stages (both against Celtic Glasgow).

I don't think it is definitive to say Messi was ahead if you see how far ahead Mbappe is in terms of CL/WC performances compared to Messi at the same age.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I don't recall people saying that about Messi. Yes, after he scored that clone of Maradona's goal against England at WC86 people were saying that he would become the best in the world but best ever? It was more by 2010 when his fellow pros were saying 'he's an alien, a playstation player etc'.

I read an interview with a lad who came through La Masia with him but ended up playing lower levels, like a contrast of experiences piece, this lad said he never thought for one second that Messi would become the best in the world, let alone the best ever, when the were at La Masia together.

Messi has amazing technical qualities but a number of players do, what you just can't predict, ever, is that a player will be able to show their best form as consistently as Messi did. That is the rare thing.
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I have no idea who that lad from La Masia was but the general consensus within the Barcelona set up was that Messi would be the best in the world. Ronaldinho even said Messi would surpass himself when Messi was 17/18
 
Cascarino said:
I have no idea who that lad from La Masia was but the general consensus within the Barcelona set up was that Messi would be the best in the world. Ronaldinho even said Messi would surpass himself when Messi was 17/18
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Oriol Riera on growing up at La Masia and being Messi's roommate. "If someone told me at that time that Messi would one day be the best player in the world, we would’ve laughed and said it was false."

"I joined FC Barcelona when I was 10 and moved away from my family to a place that wasn't my home, so my life completely changed just to improve and to fulfill my dream to play in LaLiga."

For kids all over Spain and Latin America, a move to Barcelona's La Masia academy was the dream. But it wasn't easy. The routine for the kids was gruelling and required self-discipline and maturity well beyond their years.

Whilst, in many ways, La Masia is the perfect place for technical development and it was here that Riera also learnt important life lessons. For a club whose motto reads "mes que un club" – that is, more than a club – the emphasis of character development was more important than anything else.

"The focus principally was to teach people to be a good man, to have good character and be a good, solid person," he said.

"If you are not a good man, if you are not a good person, and don’t have a good character, you might be the best player at other clubs, but not at Barcelona. After that, they taught us to play hard, to love the game and to love life every day."

Even with all Barcelona had to offer, it was still difficult to make it to the top.

"They have great facilities and we played in the best tournaments in the world, so we had all the capabilities to become a great player. But I have many friends from La Masia who aren't footballers, only 1 in 100 make it to LaLiga. It's very difficult."

Whilst that ratio may be true in other parts of Spain, it certainly isn't at Barcelona. Indeed, some of his 'friends' – Gerard Pique and Lionel Messi – did make it. His recalls his relationship with the Argentine, in particular, with whom he spent many years with at the Nou Camp.

The pair were roommates too, and although Messi often had little to say, Riera laughs when he recounts the numerous hours the two of them would spend gossiping about particular teenage love interests.

"Pique and Messi are the best players in their positions, but for me they are normal people that like the things we all like and enjoy," he says. "In the past, I spent three years with Messi in the under 19s and then the second team and the first team, we went up and down. He was also my roommate so we spent a lot of time together.

"We spoke about a lot of things, a lot of it about girls because at that time, I was 17 and Messi was 16 and we liked to talk about that.

"He had two characters: off the field he was very calm, very quiet, he doesn’t like talking too much. On the field, he was different, he was the best player, had the ability to get the ball, hold the ball and had all the skills."

Despite the talent, Riera insists if he had been told Messi would one day become the greatest player ever, he would have dismissed it without hesitation.

"If someone told me at that time that Messi would one day be the best player in the world, possibly ever, it would’ve been a surprise, we would’ve laughed and said it was false. We knew that Messi would be a player in the first-team and a good player, but not like this. In that moment, it was impossible to believe it.

"At the moment, he is the best player and I think in 50 years, we will talk about Messi as the best player in the history of football. There is no doubt about this."
 
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