Kylian Mbappe | PSG

Marat said:
Cavani :lol:
Lukaku
Higuain
Lacazette
Aubam

Before Antero Henrique came into PSG the club had a deal with Aubam, and they brillantly withdrawed their offer
This list is shit, not to mention that you compare forwards with complete different profiles/assets
Sad vision, really
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So you think at the moment Cavani is not better than Mbappe. I can’t even take that seriously, and this is what I have been saying since I came into this thread. Posts like this, over rating the kid. Put Mbappe as the central striker at PSG and he does not do as well as Cavani has been doing at PSG.

Forwards with different profiles/ assets doesn’t really matter because he plays in a front 3. Just because he isn’t the central striker doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be put in a list with people who are the central striker. Neymar played on the opposite side of a 3 at Barca but was still compared against central strikers for other teams.

Of course Mbappe is a great talent and has the potential to be the best in the world, but so many people are getting ahead of themselves. Saying things like he is already world class and walks into any team in the world. For one he isn’t world class yet and two he doesn’t walk in to any team in the world. But even if he would get into any team in the world, he wouldn’t walk into it.
 
giorno said:
Dunno if i misunderstood you or what, but Messi at 18 was openly compared to Maradona. What he became, is what most people expected him to become back in 2006. And no, he wasn't just the best 18 year old in the world, he was a starter on the best team in the world. He was already a difference-maker at the highest level. On a particularly good night he outshined ronaldinho


Btw, the argument regarding whether Mbappé is already world class or not is simple: how many players have been performing as well or better than him in 2017? Whether you believe it's too early or not, it is a fact that Mbappé has been performing at a WC level in 2017.
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Yes, you misunderstood me. I already said that he was compared to Maradona and I was basically saying that it was fine because it was a projection, the fact that he fulfilled the expectation doesn't make hm a better 18 years old, it makes him the greatest player of all time at 21-23 years old.

In my opinion people tend to overrate players' past based on their present abilities and it's also true for Messi. Messi was an incredibly talented teenager but in 2005-2006 he wasn't the best player, let alone the goat.
 
JPRouve said:
In my opinion people tend to overrate players' past based on their present abilities and it's also true for Messi. Messi was an incredibly talented teenager but in 2005-2006 he wasn't the best player, let alone the goat.
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Couldn't be more true, especially when people here speak about Cristiano Ronaldo as a younger player. We will see how Mbappe, Rashford, Martial, Jesus, etc will compare but right now their beginnings look bright, and Mbappe is currently ahead of all those players at 18 years old. It won't necessarily mean that will be the case 3 years from now. I can already say with a solid amount of certainty he will not be better than a 19 years old Messi.
 
JPRouve said:
Yes, you misunderstood me. I already said that he was compared to Maradona and I was basically saying that it was fine because it was a projection, the fact that he fulfilled the expectation doesn't make hm a better 18 years old, it makes him the greatest player of all time at 21-23 years old.

In my opinion people tend to overrate players' past based on their present abilities and it's also true for Messi. Messi was an incredibly talented teenager but in 2005-2006 he wasn't the best player, let alone the goat.
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Yeah allright, we're in agreement then

My point about Mbappé is that as small a sample as we've got, it's undeniable that right now he's a world class player because he's been consistently performing at a world class level this year

As for what he could become, i tend to agree with @amolbhatia50k don't see quite the same talent in him as i saw in Messi. @Peyroteo's argument that he could become another cristiano ronaldo kind of overlooks the fact that cristiano ronaldo might just be the biggest anomaly we've ever seen. And also that Messi at his best is comfortably better than Cristiano at his best
 
Messi at 18 was a nightmare to handle for the best defensive team in the world. Check out his performance at 18 years old in Chelsea - Barcelona 1-2. Or his hattrick against Madrid, 3-3 in the clasico, at 19.

Better yet, check Messi vs Juventus at 17 years of age. Or check, at 18 years of age, his goal where he took the ball in his half, dribbled everyone including the keeper and scored vs Getafe.

Messi is a better talent and was a better player than Mbappe at the same age. That being said, I agree Mbappe is the best young talent of the last several years, him and Dembele.
 
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giorno said:
Yeah allright, we're in agreement then

My point about Mbappé is that as small a sample as we've got, it's undeniable that right now he's a world class player because he's been consistently performing at a world class level this year

As for what he could become, i tend to agree with @amolbhatia50k don't see quite the same talent in him as i saw in Messi. @Peyroteo's argument that he could become another cristiano ronaldo kind of overlooks the fact that cristiano ronaldo might just be the biggest anomaly we've ever seen. And also that Messi at his best is comfortably better than Cristiano at his best
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What do you mean by this?
 
giorno said:
Yeah allright, we're in agreement then

My point about Mbappé is that as small a sample as we've got, it's undeniable that right now he's a world class player because he's been consistently performing at a world class level this year

As for what he could become, i tend to agree with @amolbhatia50k don't see quite the same talent in him as i saw in Messi. @Peyroteo's argument that he could become another cristiano ronaldo kind of overlooks the fact that cristiano ronaldo might just be the biggest anomaly we've ever seen. And also that Messi at his best is comfortably better than Cristiano at his best
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Yeah, and that's not a discussion I will have. I limit the comparison Messi vs Mbappé to how they were at 18 years old, when Mbappé is 22-23 we will see what he does and we will see how far he is from Messi. People should think about the likes of Alexis Sanchez or even Gago who were as rated as Messi, the difference is that Messi improved every other weeks during the first 10 years of his career.
 
serghei said:
Messi at 18 was a nightmare to handle for the best defensive team in the world. Check out his performance at 18 years old in Chelsea - Barcelona 1-2. Or his hattrick against Madrid, 3-3 in the clasico, at 19.

Better yet, check Messi vs Juventus at 17 years of age. Or check, at 18 years of age, his goal where he took the ball in his half, dribbled everyone including the keeper and scored vs Getafe.

Messi is a better talent and was a better player than Mbappe at the same age. That being said, I agree Mbappe is the best young talent of the last several years, him and Dembele.
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Point is those performance were a young Messi at his best. He wasn't that good consistently although injuries played a big part in that. Mbappe is putting up great performance after great performance. I'm not saying he'll be better as that's obviously impossible to say but 18 year old Mbappe is better than 18 year old Messi.

He's not as talented on the ball but he's better.
 
Peyroteo said:
What do you mean by this?
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That Cristiano Ronaldo is arguably unique among all athletes ever. There was never another guy capable of maximizing his natural talent the way he did. His single-minded, obsessive dedication towards being THE BEST birthed the greatest work ethic we've ever seen in an athlete, which coupled with modern medicine and technology applied to sports allowed him to squeeze literally every single drop of natural talent he had. Cristiano Ronaldo could not be better than he has been. There have been plenty of players as naturally gifted as him, but none of them reached his level. Even several players more talented never reached his level. There are higher odds of seeing another Messi in the next 20 years than another Cristiano

Compare with Maradona for example, who had peaks of outright omnipotence, but couldn't sustain them throughout his career. Messi in a way, too(though it's not quite as clear cut in his case as it was in Diego's)
 
Peyroteo said:
Point is those performance were a young Messi at his best. He wasn't that good consistently although injuries played a big part in that. Mbappe is putting up great performance after great performance. I'm not saying he'll be better as that's obviously impossible to say but 18 year old Mbappe is better than 18 year old Messi.

He's not as talented on the ball but he's better.
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Ability was higher and was clear at the time. 18 year old Messi is better than 18 year old Mbappe. People said Messi can be the best ever not because they liked his name or his face, but because even at 18 he showed incredible things. Considerably more incredible than Mbappe. Consistency is a tricky word, and I'm not sure Mbappe is consistent. Consistent at what? Ligue 1 is not even a top 4 league. He didn't play a lot for France. Mainly a sub. Of course you can have better numbers and you can look better in a weaker league.

Messi captained Argentina to a World Cup win in under 20 in 2005. Best scorer and tournament MVP. Does that count?
 
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serghei said:
Ability was higher and was clear at the time. 18 year old Messi is better than 18 year old Mbappe. People said Messi can be the best ever not because they liked his name or his face, but because even at 18 he showed incredible things. Considerably more incredible than Mbappe. Consistency is a tricky word, and I'm not sure Mbappe is consistent. Consistent at what? Ligue 1 is not even a top 4 league. He didn't play a lot for France. Mainly a sub. Of course you can have better numbers and you can look better in a weaker league.

Messi captained Arginetina to a World Cup win in under 20 in 2005. Best scored and torunament MVP. Does that count?
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Does Mbappe's UEFA u19 championship count. And Mbappe has been productive in the CL too so you can not just count this as a Ligue 1 thing.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Does Mbappe's UEFA u19 championship count. And Mbappe has been productive in the CL too so you can not just count this as a Ligue 1 thing.
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Consistency was in question. One CL season in not enough. Messi was stellar in CL in 2006 until his injury. And 2006 Chelsea was a different beast of a team compared with the sides Mbappe played against.
 
serghei said:
Ability was higher and was clear at the time. 18 year old Messi is better than 18 year old Mbappe. People said Messi can be the best ever not because they liked his name or his face, but because even at 18 he showed incredible things. Considerably more incredible than Mbappe. Consistency is a tricky word, and I'm not sure Mbappe is consistent. Consistent at what? Ligue 1 is not even a top 4 league. He didn't play a lot for France. Mainly a sub. Of course you can have better numbers and you can look better in a weaker league.

Messi captained Arginetina to a World Cup win in under 20 in 2005. Best scored and torunament MVP. Does that count?
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Mbappe was fantastic in the U19 Euros last season too.

Ligue 1 is weaker than the top leagues but it's a rather defense oriented league and most forwards that do well there tend to keep that up when they move. He's been nothing short of incredible in the Champions League so far too.
 
giorno said:
That Cristiano Ronaldo is arguably unique among all athletes ever. There was never another guy capable of maximizing his natural talent the way he did. His single-minded, obsessive dedication towards being THE BEST birthed the greatest work ethic we've ever seen in an athlete, which coupled with modern medicine and technology applied to sports allowed him to squeeze literally every single drop of natural talent he had. Cristiano Ronaldo could not be better than he has been. There have been plenty of players as naturally gifted as him, but none of them reached his level. Even several players more talented never reached his level. There are higher odds of seeing another Messi in the next 20 years than another Cristiano
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I don’t know about this. Footballer yes, athlete maybe not.

Basketballs in the NBA are supreme athletes. Usain bolt is also an absolute freak of nature. Wrestlers in the WWE are also insane athletes. Steroids have played a part but they are still supreme athletes. Physical prowess has massively progressed in the last few years and I think Ronaldo is part of that. Anthony Joshua is another supreme athlete. It isn’t just Ronaldo.
 
Peyroteo said:
Mbappe was fantastic in the U19 Euros last season too.

Ligue 1 is weaker than the top leagues but it's a rather defense oriented league and most forwards that do well there tend to keep that up when they move. He's been nothing short of incredible in the Champions League so far too.
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Very nice of him. Shows he is a top young player. No Messi or Brazilian Ronaldo though. Champions League and games for France will be where he can show his level the most. What he does for PSG in France has little importance, due to the fact that it is not a high-profile competition and that PSG has no real rivals.

Nothing he does in France at PSG will have the same impact as Messi scoring a hattrick in the clasico at 19 for example against Real Madrid. Simply because the stage isn't as high.

I don't know what defense oriented Ligue 1 is when 3rd place is 1-6 behind at PSG after barely 45 min. of football. That doesn't happen in any top league.
 
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serghei said:
Very nice of him. Shows he is a top young player. No Messi or Brazilian Ronaldo though. Champions League and games for France will be where he can show his level the most. What he does for PSG in France has little importance, due to the fact that it is not a high-profile competition and that PSG has no real rivals.

Nothing he does in France at PSG will have the same impact as Messi scoring a hattrick in the clasico at 19 for example against Real Madrid. Simply because the stage isn't as high.
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He was performing for Monaco too, it's not just at PSG. Mbappe has been doing much better than 18yo Messi on the big stage. Bayern, Juve, Dortmund, City...
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
I don’t know about this. Footballer yes, athlete maybe not.

Basketballs in the NBA are supreme athletes. Usain bolt is also an absolute freak of nature. Wrestlers in the WWE are also insane athletes. Steroids have played a part but they are still supreme athletes. Physical prowess has massively progressed in the last few years and I think Ronaldo is part of that. Anthony Joshua is another supreme athlete. It isn’t just Ronaldo.
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You missed the point. I'm not saying cristiano is most gifted athlete we've ever seen, i'm saying he's the one who maximized his talent the most. Put simply, players of cristiano's talent tend to be Ibrahimovic's level, not Cristiano's, but above all, they're not as consistently absurd as Cristiano as been over the past decade. You generally see them have a good start, and incredible 3-4 years peak, then slowly fade. Cristiano's fading and he's still one of the best players we've ever seen. That makes no sense
 
serghei said:
Very nice of him. Shows he is a top young player. No Messi or Brazilian Ronaldo though. Champions League and games for France will be where he can show his level the most. What he does for PSG in France has little importance, due to the fact that it is not a high-profile competition and that PSG has no real rivals.

Nothing he does in France at PSG will have the same impact as Messi scoring a hattrick in the clasico at 19 for example against Real Madrid. Simply because the stage isn't as high.

I don't know what defense oriented Ligue 1 is when 3rd place is 1-6 behind at PSG after barely 45 min. of football. That doesn't happen in any top league.
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For a long while goals per game has been lower in Ligue 1 than it has been in the top 4 leagues. And in the PL this season we already seen Manchester City beat Liverpool 5-0 and Liverpool beat Arsenal 4-0.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
For a long while goals per game has been lower in Ligue 1 than it has been in the top 4 leagues. And in the PL this season we already seen Manchester City beat Liverpool 5-0 and Liverpool beat Arsenal 4-0.
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That's because there was not a superteam, and the level was lower all around. Now the level is also low, but one superteam just beats the shit out of any opponent, because there isn't a real rival for them to fight with.

In any serious league no1 vs no3 would be a flat out derby match. In France, it's 6-1 after half a match. Compare Chelsea - City (no1 vs no3), with PSG - Bordeaux (no1 vs no3). That's the difference between EPL vs Ligue 1. And see next week no3 vs no1 in Spain, in Atletico - Barcelona.
 
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Mbappe has more to his game than Messi had at the same age, and his decision making is way better.

Obviously, I do not think that he might become as good as Messi, but he is better than Messi was at 18.
 
A real pity that we could not compete for his signature. His game would have fit us like a glove. He is a monster on the counter.
I still think people need to relax with the praise. So many things can go wrong at his age. He will still hit a rough patch.
 
giorno said:
That Cristiano Ronaldo is arguably unique among all athletes ever. There was never another guy capable of maximizing his natural talent the way he did. His single-minded, obsessive dedication towards being THE BEST birthed the greatest work ethic we've ever seen in an athlete, which coupled with modern medicine and technology applied to sports allowed him to squeeze literally every single drop of natural talent he had. Cristiano Ronaldo could not be better than he has been. There have been plenty of players as naturally gifted as him, but none of them reached his level. Even several players more talented never reached his level. There are higher odds of seeing another Messi in the next 20 years than another Cristiano

Compare with Maradona for example, who had peaks of outright omnipotence, but couldn't sustain them throughout his career. Messi in a way, too(though it's not quite as clear cut in his case as it was in Diego's)
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The thing is I believe less talented players can be better than more talented players even if they have the same work ethic and desire. I don't think Mbappe needs to be as dedicated as Cristiano to be one of the greatest players ever. You'll struggle to find players in world football more talented on the ball than Bernardo Silva. He puts the ball where he wants with that left foot but I doubt he'll be able to reach Bale's level for example and I don't think that's down to their work ethic. They're just different kinds of players that rely on different things, Bale didn't need precise passing and dribbling in small spaces to tear the Premier League apart and be one of the best in the world.
 
giorno said:
You missed the point. I'm not saying cristiano is most gifted athlete we've ever seen, i'm saying he's the one who maximized his talent the most. Put simply, players of cristiano's talent tend to be Ibrahimovic's level, not Cristiano's, but above all, they're not as consistently absurd as Cristiano as been over the past decade. You generally see them have a good start, and incredible 3-4 years peak, then slowly fade. Cristiano's fading and he's still one of the best players we've ever seen. That makes no sense
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Understood, my bad.
 
giorno said:
That Cristiano Ronaldo is arguably unique among all athletes ever. There was never another guy capable of maximizing his natural talent the way he did. His single-minded, obsessive dedication towards being THE BEST birthed the greatest work ethic we've ever seen in an athlete, which coupled with modern medicine and technology applied to sports allowed him to squeeze literally every single drop of natural talent he had. Cristiano Ronaldo could not be better than he has been. There have been plenty of players as naturally gifted as him, but none of them reached his level. Even several players more talented never reached his level. There are higher odds of seeing another Messi in the next 20 years than another Cristiano

Compare with Maradona for example, who had peaks of outright omnipotence, but couldn't sustain them throughout his career. Messi in a way, too(though it's not quite as clear cut in his case as it was in Diego's)
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Yeah, very special case.

Best scorers in the last 4 seasons in Champions League (August 2013- August 2017)

1. Cr7 55 goals :eek:
2.Messi 35 goals
3. Lewa 29 goals
4. Muller 23 goals
5. Neymar 21 goals
6. Cavani 20 goal
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
So you think at the moment Cavani is not better than Mbappe. I can’t even take that seriously, and this is what I have been saying since I came into this thread. Posts like this, over rating the kid. Put Mbappe as the central striker at PSG and he does not do as well as Cavani has been doing at PSG.

Forwards with different profiles/ assets doesn’t really matter because he plays in a front 3. Just because he isn’t the central striker doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be put in a list with people who are the central striker. Neymar played on the opposite side of a 3 at Barca but was still compared against central strikers for other teams.

Of course Mbappe is a great talent and has the potential to be the best in the world, but so many people are getting ahead of themselves. Saying things like he is already world class and walks into any team in the world. For one he isn’t world class yet and two he doesn’t walk in to any team in the world. But even if he would get into any team in the world, he wouldn’t walk into it.
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You can't see that Cavani has a poor technique, no pace, no vision ? The only thing he's good at is to score with one touch, off the ball, heading, and defending. Why does he score always in one touch ? Simply because if he touches the ball too much, it's too difficult for fim the keep the ball. He is known for his poor convertion ratio, missing 70% of the chances he gets in a team that dominates the league.
Mbappé is complete and has several rare qualities, especially his acceleration and vision... he is better than Cavani without any doubt. But you only focus on stats like beginers do, you don't mention the penalties and the wrong things about his game. You don't watch every PSG games, maybe just on UCL so your vision is distorted. And for your information yes he is a central striker, but his coaches trained him to play on every front of the attack. Since he's at PSG he never played on his favorite/natural position, in fact he played on the right side which is the most uncomftable side for him, considering that he could have more chances on his right foot starting on the left.
I was talking about profiles meaning target striker, poacher, physical striker etc... Cavani is more Fox in the box type and Lacazette will use his technique and motion as an asset.
You talk about overrated player but he has scored in UCL every time against solid squads, you're just too worry about his age and because of that you forget to see the kid for what he is.
 
Marat said:
You can't see that Cavani has a poor technique, no pace, no vision ? The only thing he's good at is to score with one touch, off the ball, heading, and defending. Why does he score always in one touch ? Simply because if he touches the ball too much, it's too difficult for fim the keep the ball. He is known for his poor convertion ratio, missing 70% of the chances he gets in a team that dominates the league.
Mbappé is complete and has several rare qualities, especially his acceleration and vision... he is better than Cavani without any doubt. But you only focus on stats like beginers do, you don't mention the penalties and the wrong things about his game. You don't watch every PSG games, maybe just on UCL so your vision is distorted. And for your information yes he is a central striker, but his coaches trained him to play on every front of the attack. Since he's at PSG he never played on his favorite/natural position, in fact he played on the right side which is the most uncomftable side for him, considering that he could have more chances on his right foot starting on the left.
I was talking about profiles meaning target striker, poacher, physical striker etc... Cavani is more Fox in the box type and Lacazette will use his technique and motion as an asset.
You talk about overrated player but he has scored in UCL every time against solid squads, you're just too worry about his age and because of that you forget to see the kid for what he is.
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Ronaldo has been doing this for the last few years and is a grea player. You talk like they are not good qualities to have. Stats aren’t everything but he scored 49 goals in 50 appearances last season. Mbappe will be lucky to get that in any of his next 5 seasons. And you think an 18 year old kid who played half a season is better. The kid is great but better than Cavani, what a load of rubbish.
 
giorno said:
That Cristiano Ronaldo is arguably unique among all athletes ever. There was never another guy capable of maximizing his natural talent the way he did. His single-minded, obsessive dedication towards being THE BEST birthed the greatest work ethic we've ever seen in an athlete, which coupled with modern medicine and technology applied to sports allowed him to squeeze literally every single drop of natural talent he had. Cristiano Ronaldo could not be better than he has been. There have been plenty of players as naturally gifted as him, but none of them reached his level. Even several players more talented never reached his level. There are higher odds of seeing another Messi in the next 20 years than another Cristiano

Compare with Maradona for example, who had peaks of outright omnipotence, but couldn't sustain them throughout his career. Messi in a way, too(though it's not quite as clear cut in his case as it was in Diego's)
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Always thought that and you can only salute that. A real good comparison is Cristiano and Quaresma, very similar playing style when they broke out and Ricardo was even touted as the more talented player and look how it turned out.
 
Revan said:
Mbappe has more to his game than Messi had at the same age, and his decision making is way better.

Obviously, I do not think that he might become as good as Messi, but he is better than Messi was at 18.
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Yeah, but 18 year old Messi also had superior dribbling ability due to his superior technical ability. That's something you can't ignore. That made him very dangerous too. So it's not some case of Mbappe just being superior in all facets.
 
In Rainbows said:
Yeah, but 18 year old Messi also had superior dribbling ability due to his superior technical ability. That's something you can't ignore. That made him very dangerous too. So it's not some case of Mbappe just being superior in all facets.
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Yeah, with Messi, his dribbling was already world-class. The only thing that was missing was the decision-making in the final third as well as the finishing. Also, once Pep came in and changed his diet and training regimen, he managed to get rid of these muscle injuries he was getting and could string games together to take his game to a level I've never seen before.

I do think without a doubt Mbappe is better at 18 than Messi was, no question there. However, I also am just as certain that he won't be better than Messi at 19/20/21. No one is capable of that in the game right now, and probably for a long time.
 
marktan said:
I was more referring to the current one, who plays more like Mbappe does (wide forward). He used to be a winger whose primary aim was to beat a man and get a cross in and the decision making is a different mindset for that.



It's actually very good, go watch a highlight of his touches against Dortmund in the CL midweek, or the matches against Bayern or Juve in last year's CL. Aside from the finishes and getting into great positions, he's very good at passing and running into space, or dragging players away with him when he needs to. It's what makes him so productive. Yeah every now and then he tries to go it himself and fails, but that's just the selfishness top players have.
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I watch almost all his matches. What makes him so productive is mainly his movement. What he sometimes does is leave the better option which means hisn decision making still as good as he is isn't premium quality. He's nothing like a Ronaldinho for example.
 
Best 18-year old I've witnessed (highlight reels circa 94/95) was Ronaldo Luis Nazario. He'd have been nominated in 1994 but wasn't eligible that year due to the rules at the time.
 
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