[Fortitude]

Yep, you'd think this would be exceedingly obvious.

The other obvious point being overlooked is that whatever training Mainoo could do... all players can carry out and are clearly incentivised to do so. So even if he could somehow miraculously improve his speed by 20%, that doesn't mean he would become faster relative to the elite professional athletes against whom he is competing.

This whole conversation is weird. He needs stamina and the ability to output at V02 max for a considerably longer period of time than he is capable of, as a first priority. He has more speed than credited for for 1 or 2 runs and then he is completely shot and has no more capacity for anything like his initial burst and run, then he looks like he's running in treacle. His stamina and conditioning are extremely poor, but those gains cannot and will not be made until the summer, when he should be going on an arduous journey to improve his running in all aspects, from sprinting to long distance.

To your bolded. That would only be relevant if all footballers were put through the same training program, but if you're already a good or great runner (relative to football), you're not going to be spending the vast majority of preseason working on improving something you don't need to over whatever happens to be the weaknesses in either your body or your game - many players will be working on aspects of their strength, for example. Upper body, core or their strength related to explosiveness. The fact Kobbie is deficient with his running in all aspects means he is simply working to meet the PL bar, so yes, he can work towards that without the gap between he and them/it widening because most won't be working intensively on keeping the gap equidistant.

Kobbie needs to get some serious work in on improving his stamina; in that aspect, he is like an aged player close to retirement more than he is a youngster with his best years ahead of him, and that needs to be addressed at the first opportunity.

 

[simonhch]

I’m not sure why so many are so critical of our younger players. Yes there is some improvement needed but these are literally kids playing at the highest level of football. Take a step back for a minute and realize there’s going to be some growing pains.

Thank you. I’ve been saying the same thing for a while now. The criticism of Mainoo on here is absurd. The calls to sell him or write him off are even more ridiculous, to the point where I actually consider it embarrassing for people to be saying such things about a 19 year old. A teen who absolutely killed it last season, and had people baying for him to start for England as their “best midfielder” at the Euros. 6 months later the same people are saying he’ll never be good enough. It’s preposterous. Too preposterous to take seriously, yet it’s hard to ignore because so many are doing it.

Yes I actually do. I witnessed the entire career of Seedorf. What Seedorf had over Mainoo at 19 was raw power Rooney style. At 17 he was literally a mature man physically. If Mainoo didn't have that extra bit of maturity Seedorf is talking of, with his current physical stature and lack of pace and stamina he'd get murdered in the senior game even with a similar game style to a Seedorf. It's that maturity that enables him to cope as his body catches up to the demands of the senior game. Mainoo still has plenty of physical development to go through. Some on here are talking like he is age 23/24 and at the final state of his physical and technical development. Yet he is simply a teen breaking into first team football. Some way from establishing himself. It’s similar to how some on here talk of Garmacho.

Hit the nail on the head. He’s still a boy, physically. You can see how much his body has changed from last year to this alone. If he was 23 or 24 I could see the points having some validity, but he’s 19. He’s a huge talent that has already shown so much. He’s a jewel in our crown and we should be nurturing and developing accordingly. Carefully protecting him as he breaks through into men’s football at the very highest level. Ange was talking about this the other day, the “destroying” of young players. That’s what’s happening with Mainoo to some degree this season. Not by his manager, but by the fans. In the long run, I think his experiences playing as a 10 and a f9, will help him become a more rounded player. Nevertheless, I think if we nurture his development properly, and don’t listen to the moronic stylings of a good section of the fanbase, he has the potential to develop into an elite midfielder. I have seen this same pattern play out with so many academy players, that it has depressing familiarity.

U21 Hype leads to fever pitch mouth frothing for his first team debut. Even more hype comes piling down after a promising first season Impact, which in turn leads to extreme hyperbole and expectation. Inevitably because the player is so young and still growing he has a dip in form and consistency. An event met with considerable criticism and doubting of the youngster. The pressure leads to a further loss of confidence in the player, which leads to worse performances and fan vitriol. Most are now ready to write him off. However, as he naturally matures he produces more consistent performances but this is met by general indifference or disappointment because it falls short of the Messianic status heaped upon him just 18-24 months earlier. Eventually he either stops developing and becomes a by-word for unfulfilled potential, or becomes an elite footballer and the same fans who called him a waste of space tell anyone who will listen that it was obvious to them all along that he’d be a star. It’s so predictable, it’s stupid.

This has all happened before, and will all happen again.

 

[sleepehead]

You didn't say it but you pointed to Seedorf when you suggested a role for Mainoo. And I pointed to the fact that Mainoo is clearly a worse athlete and a worse technician. And lets be serious Mainoo is currently older than Seedorf was in 95, he isn't mature on the ball let alone more mature than Seedorf was.

And look I think that Mainoo is talented and could become a good to very good Footballer if he develops properly but he isn't equal to any version Seedorf and his current skillset wouldn't allow him to match Seedorf. But in Milan 4321, he would fit an other player that I also rate and was a very good all rounder, in Ambrosini.

I think another shout from Italy would be Marchisio, once he started to his his prime. He wasn't really the primary driving attacking force but he could connect attack and defend and could dribble his way out of pressure. He wasn't known for a wide range of passing either





There's some similarities here with what Mainoo tried to do and they both have a bit of flair

 

[Toshey]

Please, Mainoo, don't turn out to be a massive bell like Rashy and Sanchy.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

For me, Mainoo has always been defensively better than offensively better.

His ability to position himself and defend is very underrated & at the same time his offensive ability such as his passing is/was overrated.

Mainoo needs to have a few games replacing Ugarte rather than playing next to Ugarte because I believe that would be more of a balanced midfield to add some fluidity to our midfield when we play as a back 3 team.

Many will say that out midfield will get crushed by again Mainoo is better defensively than people give him credit for.

However, if he his future is as a CM more than a CDM then more than speed he needs to add long passing and progressive passive to his game.

 

[Lu Tze]

I think the worrying thing is that he's not really shown any top level skill with his passing. I can't remember a great CM who wasn't either an excellent athlete or a great passer. It means that defenders have one less thing to think about and it makes him much less threatening. As it is he's just a bit of a backboard.

He's absolutely not a 10. I believe he can can develop into a good CM in time. I'm not sure he'll be starter quality for a top level PL team but let's hope.

 

[Rossa]

He didn't improve his speed by the 20% figure I've seen you repeating, though.

I have never repeated or even mentioned a 20% figure. The fact that a professional sprinter who has trained for years even at 19, improved his speed considerably speaks volumes. Mainoo who has been a fair bit injured, haven't had much time to develop his physical side of the game due to lacking pre-seasons, is surely expected to have an even greater positive impact on his speed training?

 

[Rossa]

If anything that would back up the point of view that speed can’t be learned. Bolt got 4% quicker dedicating his whole life to achieving speed, and speed only. And it took him multiple years.

It really doesn't. He improved by half a second already being one of the fastest in the world. He had dedicated his training for years, and still he improved considerably. Some are born faster and some are born stronger, but if you train properly, you will get both faster and stronger than those who don't. Mainoo has struggled with injuries and hasn't had a proper pre-season. With proper dedicated sprint training, he will most likely improve quite massively. He will never be said Usain Bolt, but there is plenty of evidence that he would improve significantly.

 

[Rossa]

I think the worrying thing is that he's not really shown any top level skill with his passing. I can't remember a great CM who wasn't either an excellent athlete or a great passer. It means that defenders have one less thing to think about and it makes him much less threatening. As it is he's just a bit of a backboard.

He's absolutely not a 10. I believe he can can develop into a good CM in time. I'm not sure he'll be starter quality for a top level PL team but let's hope.

I agree about his passing. He is very conservative. Considering Ugarte isn't a great passer either, at least not an expansive passer, both him and Mainoo make us very predictable. Gone are the days of Carrick and Scholes where both could ping them 40 yards with ease, and Scholes with speed and precision unrivalled. That's why we improve with the ball with Bruno in midfield - he finds those passes that Ugarte and Mainoo are reluctant to make.

 

[Rossa]

Yep, you'd think this would be exceedingly obvious.

The other obvious point being overlooked is that whatever training Mainoo could do... all players can carry out and are clearly incentivised to do so. So even if he could somehow miraculously improve his speed by 20%, that doesn't mean he would become faster relative to the elite professional athletes against whom he is competing.

Of course he could - there have been sources where Amorim is unhappy with the body fat of certain players, their general fitness levels and their athleticism. There was talk about hiring a new sprint trainer. I think this applies to more players than just Mainoo, but considering he is very young, has struggled with fitness, no real pre-season and injuries, there is a real possibility that he will improve drastically. Ronaldo who was much, much faster to begin with improved his speed considerably by proper training from 18-25 for instance. Very few, if any, are at their physical prime at 19.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You didn't say it but you pointed to Seedorf when you suggested a role for Mainoo. And I pointed to the fact that Mainoo is clearly a worse athlete and a worse technician. And lets be serious Mainoo is currently older than Seedorf was in 95, he isn't mature on the ball let alone more mature than Seedorf was.

And look I think that Mainoo is talented and could become a good to very good Footballer if he develops properly but he isn't equal to any version Seedorf and his current skillset wouldn't allow him to match Seedorf. But in Milan 4321, he would fit an other player that I also rate and was a very good all rounder, in Ambrosini.

Mainoo is far more talented than Ambrosini ever was. That comparison is a straight up non starter.

I can understand many people misgivings about the Seedorf comparisons.

Yet I d still refer to my initial argument to perhaps clarify my stance more. For me Mainoo can potentially develop into the player Seedorf was when most of has his pure speed had gone in early 30s at Milan. That was the time Seedorf literally had about the same level of speed and agility Mainoo has now. Yet he was easily a top 5 trequartista on the whole planet still. For Mainoo has the dribbling, the combo play and the finishing. He also has a very good base positional sense.
In a stylistic sense (forget the physical aspect) Seedorf isn't wrong to say the boy reminds him of himself. Or that he has the extra on ball maturity at that age since he blatantly does not have the physical gifts Seedorf was blessed with so has to compensate with his on ball IQ.
Right now since his so young he still has to hone vision, stamina and how to better evade CBS and DMS consistently that high up. Yet there is nothing in his game that suggests he can't developed those things further with the right attitude and coaching. For there have been glimpses of what I'm talking about in goals he scored in big games vs Pool and City and in those performances too.

I believe Amorim sees the same things too that is why he is starting to use him higher and Bruno deeper as our side gets to grips with how to attack in Amorim style 3-4-3. I believe when the team finally understands what Amorim desires to do in an attacking sense, the role of Mainoo will be a pleasant surprise to many.

 

[cirilus]

Of course he could - there have been sources where Amorim is unhappy with the body fat of certain players, their general fitness levels and their athleticism. There was talk about hiring a new sprint trainer. I think this applies to more players than just Mainoo, but considering he is very young, has struggled with fitness, no real pre-season and injuries, there is a real possibility that he will improve drastically. Ronaldo who was much, much faster to begin with improved his speed considerably by proper training from 18-25 for instance. Very few, if any, are at their physical prime at 19.

His Sporting team ran, pressed and moved like no other. He can only be unhappy.

But it looks like United still hasn't surpassed the lifting weights mentality (which was obvious by the reactions when Ronaldo came back).

Just look at the videos from the top teams conditioning. Agility, Speed, Combined Strength with specific motions, Technical training under stressing factors, and all that.

I think he is mostly disgusted with the team because this advanced practice and work ethic is clearly lacking. Slipping club mentality. This is the most urgent change, before results.

 

[red woppit]

It seems to me that Mainoo's body is still developing, and with that, his strength/stamina will take a hit. I think he does remarkably well for a 19 year old, but if he is in a growth spurt, his performances, physically, will not improve until he has finished that growing period.
We have seen it before, where youngsters are overplayed whilst still in their teens, and it can give them problems that they never overcome.
I wouldn't be worried about him for a couple of more years really.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Of course he could - there have been sources where Amorim is unhappy with the body fat of certain players, their general fitness levels and their athleticism. There was talk about hiring a new sprint trainer. I think this applies to more players than just Mainoo, but considering he is very young, has struggled with fitness, no real pre-season and injuries, there is a real possibility that he will improve drastically. Ronaldo who was much, much faster to begin with improved his speed considerably by proper training from 18-25 for instance. Very few, if any, are at their physical prime at 19.

Exactly! It's funny how so many keep acting like players can't improve their physical conditioning at that age. Yet we saw CR7 do it. We have seen a mere Amad do it. Just a 1.5 seasons ago Amad was struggling physically and seemed to lack stamina. Now he goes toe to toe with fellows far bigger than he and has an inane stamina engine to boot. Honestly the likes of Mainoo, Yoro and Garnarcho are all 3-5 years from their physical prime. If they were to pour themselves into the kinda single minded physical development CR7 did. They'd explode as players.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Thank you. I’ve been saying the same thing for a while now. The criticism of Mainoo on here is absurd. The calls to sell him or write him off are even more ridiculous, to the point where I actually consider it embarrassing for people to be saying such things about a 19 year old. A teen who absolutely killed it last season, and had people baying for him to start for England as their “best midfielder” at the Euros. 6 months later the same people are saying he’ll never be good enough. It’s preposterous. Too preposterous to take seriously, yet it’s hard to ignore because so many are doing it.

Hit the nail on the head. He’s still a boy, physically. You can see how much his body has changed from last year to this alone. If he was 23 or 24 I could see the points having some validity, but he’s 19. He’s a huge talent that has already shown so much. He’s a jewel in our crown and we should be nurturing and developing accordingly. Carefully protecting him as he breaks through into men’s football at the very highest level. Ange was talking about this the other day, the “destroying” of young players. That’s what’s happening with Mainoo to some degree this season. Not by his manager, but by the fans. In the long run, I think his experiences playing as a 10 and a f9, will help him become a more rounded player. Nevertheless, I think if we nurture his development properly, and don’t listen to the moronic stylings of a good section of the fanbase, he has the potential to develop into an elite midfielder. I have seen this same pattern play out with so many academy players, that it has depressing familiarity.

U21 Hype leads to fever pitch mouth frothing for his first team debut. Even more hype comes piling down after a promising first season Impact, which in turn leads to extreme hyperbole and expectation. Inevitably because the player is so young and still growing he has a dip in form and consistency. An event met with considerable criticism and doubting of the youngster. The pressure leads to a further loss of confidence in the player, which leads to worse performances and fan vitriol. Most are now ready to write him off. However, as he naturally matures he produces more consistent performances but this is met by general indifference or disappointment because it falls short of the Messianic status heaped upon him just 18-24 months earlier. Eventually he either stops developing and becomes a by-word for unfulfilled potential, or becomes an elite footballer and the same fans who called him a waste of space tell anyone who will listen that it was obvious to them all along that he’d be a star. It’s so predictable, it’s stupid.

This has all happened before, and will all happen again.

I'm just glad we have a coach who knows how to handle developing players in his age group. Personally I will never understand the current era fans impatience with player development. Most write off players before their 21st birthday and treat inconsistency as "proof" of "not being good enough period " rather than merely being young and learning.

 

[Fortitude]

It seems to me that Mainoo's body is still developing, and with that, his strength/stamina will take a hit. I think he does remarkably well for a 19 year old, but if he is in a growth spurt, his performances, physically, will not improve until he has finished that growing period.
We have seen it before, where youngsters are overplayed whilst still in their teens, and it can give them problems that they never overcome.
I wouldn't be worried about him for a couple of more years really.

There's also the issue of muscle mass vis-a-vis aerobic capacity. He has clearly grown and put on more muscle, moving slightly from boy to man. With more muscle and size comes more load and more difficulty doing the exact same things as you previously did. Couple that with roles where there are constant demands either in explosive and immediate sprints/bursts, or extended jogs into runs over a longer distance and it quickly compounds, which is where we see him flag rapidly in any chaotic episode (counter to counter-counter with perhaps 3 max output sprints into runs).

Kobbie has his own body and new aspects to tackle, all in the midst of zero true recuperation, which is what the off season is supposed to provide. Unfortunately for him, he went straight into the Euros and then got an injury, post. There has been no time for him to adjust and no time for him to be put through a bespoke, laborious development plan. He's got a brutal preseason coming up, if he doesn't like cardio. But it'll be the first actual window he's had to actually make noticeable gains and show the fruits of his labour.

It seems as though posters aren't aware or simply don't care about growing pains and developmental procedure, nor why we generally see midfielders come to life in the latter part of their early 20's - playing in the PL at his age through midfield is not the norm, and usually the kids that can are quite special as athletes or technically superb *and* facilitated, which he gets none of here in our, quite frankly, appalling midfield.

 

[JPRouve]

Mainoo is far more talented than Ambrosini ever was. That comparison is a straight up non starter.

I can understand many people misgivings about the Seedorf comparisons.

Yet I d still refer to my initial argument to perhaps clarify my stance more. For me Mainoo can potentially develop into the player Seedorf was when most of has his pure speed had gone in early 30s at Milan. That was the time Seedorf literally had about the same level of speed and agility Mainoo has now. Yet he was easily a top 5 trequartista on the whole planet still. For Mainoo has the dribbling, the combo play and the finishing. He also has a very good base positional sense.
In a stylistic sense (forget the physical aspect) Seedorf isn't wrong to say the boy reminds him of himself. Or that he has the extra on ball maturity at that age since he blatantly does not have the physical gifts Seedorf was blessed with so has to compensate with his on ball IQ.
Right now since his so young he still has to hone vision, stamina and how to better evade CBS and DMS consistently that high up. Yet there is nothing in his game that suggests he can't developed those things further with the right attitude and coaching. For there have been glimpses of what I'm talking about in goals he scored in big games vs Pool and City and in those performances too.

I believe Amorim sees the same things too that is why he is starting to use him higher and Bruno deeper as our side gets to grips with how to attack in Amorim style 3-4-3. I believe when the team finally understands what Amorim desires to do in an attacking sense, the role of Mainoo will be a pleasant surprise to many.

But that's an old Seedorf, not a young one and Mainoo isn't more mature now that Seedorf was in his early 30s. Surely you see why there is a problem with the quote, your point shows why the quote is wrong. And Mainoo positional sense isn't good. In my opinion you are totally misrepresenting him for no good reason because he is talented and you are doing him any good service.


Mainoo is a technically above average player, with good athleticism even if he isn't the fastest, a good attitude that is reflected in his reactions to broken plays. But his positional sense isn't good, he routinely fails to position himself optimally to receive passes which is part of our issues in the passing game in 2024, defensively he routinely fails to cut passing angles and he routinely fails to spot and mark runners in his zone. Now he generally reacts appropriately so to it's very likely that with experience he will be able to fix many of his reading of the games and positional issues, I have also seen him have spotless games so it should be noted that these issues are also just inconsistency which is to be expected for a teenager. Now I do prefer the comparison to Marchisio or even Fletcher because to me Mainoo doesn't have the technical excellence that Seedorf had.

Now I want it to be very clear, these aren't criticism of Mainoo, it's not meant as not recognizing his talent and potential. The players that I see him emulate are to me talented but they don't have the profile of Seedorf, it's very good players that are simply different to Seedorf and I don't see it as an insult to Mainoo.

 

[yamo123x]

Mainoo is one of our own and of course will be protected/supported/given more time and quite rightly.

He has obvious strengths but he is nowhere near the finished article, he is still young still learning. He must have had 20 different midfield partners already.

He would certainly be better in a 3, but does have tendency to go missing in games and im not sure he fits into RA system, but he can still be a v important player for us if given the chance.

I hope the contractual thing can be sorted soon

 

[Withnail]

Of course he could - there have been sources where Amorim is unhappy with the body fat of certain players, their general fitness levels and their athleticism. There was talk about hiring a new sprint trainer. I think this applies to more players than just Mainoo, but considering he is very young, has struggled with fitness, no real pre-season and injuries, there is a real possibility that he will improve drastically. Ronaldo who was much, much faster to begin with improved his speed considerably by proper training from 18-25 for instance. Very few, if any, are at their physical prime at 19.

Well exactly, you have complete outliers like Rooney who was as strong as an Ox at 16 but a most men aren't at their physical peak at 19 and continue to develop physically until 25/26. He's also only in his second season at this level and still has a lot to learn. Second season syndrome is a real thing because other teams have done their homework and young players especially need to adapt and improve their game.

He could well have another 5 or 6 years of development until he's at his physical peak, along with learning from experience of playing games at this level. It's normal to have ups and downs at his age and there really shouldn't be as much expectation on him to be one of our main midfielders at this stage. We should be getting at least one more senior midfielder in the Summer to allow Mainoo to develop at his own pace without the pressure of having the pressure to perform week in week out.

 

[Champ]

Yep, you'd think this would be exceedingly obvious.

The other obvious point being overlooked is that whatever training Mainoo could do... all players can carry out and are clearly incentivised to do so. So even if he could somehow miraculously improve his speed by 20%, that doesn't mean he would become faster relative to the elite professional athletes against whom he is competing.

But the issue you're missing here is he currently looks slower relative to the athletes he is performing against....

So if he improves a mere 2% say, and I'll admit it's a difficult metric to measure, he will look far less slow relative to those he is competing against.

The 20% figure is a top end percentage of improvement that someone could hope to achieve in terms of speed when training. Is it an achievable figure for Mainoo to get? Probably not.
Does he need to improve by 20%? Definitely not.

An improvement in his explosive power will give him an extra edge in the first 5 yards, that really is all he needs. The top end speed is of less importance in his position, what is of importance is reading the game and that initial burst to get to the ball/into position quicker.

 

[flameinthesun]

He's got the ol Varane style passing trait.

 

[RuudTom83]

He seems to have stalled ever since the England call-up.

I'm hoping it is just a second season of growing pains on and off the pitch...a summer break and a proper pre-season might be the answer.

Before then he just needs to find his position in the team during the current campaign.

 

[Buster15]

But the issue you're missing here is he currently looks slower relative to the athletes he is performing against....

So if he improves a mere 2% say, and I'll admit it's a difficult metric to measure, he will look far less slow relative to those he is competing against.

The 20% figure is a top end percentage of improvement that someone could hope to achieve in terms of speed when training. Is it an achievable figure for Mainoo to get? Probably not.
Does he need to improve by 20%? Definitely not.

An improvement in his explosive power will give him an extra edge in the first 5 yards, that really is all he needs. The top end speed is of less importance in his position, what is of importance is reading the game and that initial burst to get to the ball/into position quicker.

Quite agree and I mentioned his apparent lack of acceleration/pace before. His speed of thought seems ok, as his skill levels. But I have wondered whether he could lose a kilo or two, which might help with the explosive acceleration point.

It would be a shame to see his career stall.

 

[RedSky]

He seems to have stalled ever since the England call-up.

I'm hoping it is just a second season of growing pains on and off the pitch...a summer break and a proper pre-season might be the answer.

Before then he just needs to find his position in the team during the current campaign.

I think it's a mixture of things. He's young and inexperienced, he's going to go through stages of bad form, we should be benching him and picking the games for him to play in. But due to our personal issues we've had to rely on him being a starter. It's also incredibly difficult being young and having the pressure of playing for a big club under a crisis. Most players struggle, but it hits young players harder.

There's no need to panic with him though, he needs some time out of the spot light. He'll be better next season.

 

[spwd]

Please, Mainoo, don't turn out to be a massive bell like Rashy and Sanchy.

Has something happened?

 

[The Mitcher]

It says a lot that fans debate his position. What's he actually good at, then?

 

[MadDogg]

It says a lot that fans debate his position. What's he actually good at, then?

I'd say his primary strengths at this time are his ability to manipulate the ball at his feet, short passing and combination play with others. Even those are a bit inconsistent at the moment, but he's shown those are his strengths when he's in good form.

He needs to develop physically (stamina at the very least, and hopefully some explosiveness), vision for longer passes and positioning to get on the ball more. Those are all true no matter what position he ends up in, although the longer passing might be a bit less of a priority as a #10.

 

[The Mitcher]

I'd say his primary strengths at this time are his ability to manipulate the ball at his feet, short passing and combination play with others. Even those are a bit inconsistent at the moment, but he's shown those are his strengths when he's in good form.

He needs to develop physically (stamina at the very least, and hopefully some explosiveness), vision for longer passes and positioning to get on the ball more. Those are all true no matter what position he ends up in, although the longer passing might be a bit less of a priority as a #10.

We've had many midfielders described like that and they ended up being nothing players. Hope Mainoo doesn't end that way.

 

[MadDogg]

We've had many midfielders described like that and they ended up being nothing players. Hope Mainoo doesn't end that way.

I must admit as I typed it I couldn't help but think of Cleverley. Mainoo does have better ball-control though, and is still a couple years younger than Cleverley was when he broke into our team so he 'should' develop further.

 

[Gator Nate]

I am curious to learn more as this makes no sense from what I read elsewhere. Speed is definitely improved by proper training and general physical development. At 19 Usain Bolt ran 100m at 10,01. He improved a fair bit on that - and that was his profession as well as being a prodigy.

Mainoo doesn’t have good running technique. He looks a little heavy and can definitely improve. He is perhaps just finished growing. He could thus realistically improve more than Bolt did, relatively speaking. Ajer went from being the slowest 15 year old at Lillestrøm in Norway to clocking some of the fastest top speeds in the PL - according to him only due to training.

A 15-year-old going from slow to fast is a different starting point and ignores the physical growth. We're talking about a 19-year-old that has, to some degree, been working on things while growing. But, unlike Bolt, is neither a prodigy nor a professional sprinter. My point there was, so far as Mainoo is concerened, given his age and environment, he's not going to see much improvement in raw speed.

Yep, you'd think this would be exceedingly obvious.

The other obvious point being overlooked is that whatever training Mainoo could do... all players can carry out and are clearly incentivised to do so. So even if he could somehow miraculously improve his speed by 20%, that doesn't mean he would become faster relative to the elite professional athletes against whom he is competing.

That's another good point to the discussion. Everone else around him is doing the same stuff.

This whole conversation is weird. He needs stamina and the ability to output at V02 max for a considerably longer period of time than he is capable of, as a first priority. He has more speed than credited for for 1 or 2 runs and then he is completely shot and has no more capacity for anything like his initial burst and run, then he looks like he's running in treacle. His stamina and conditioning are extremely poor, but those gains cannot and will not be made until the summer, when he should be going on an arduous journey to improve his running in all aspects, from sprinting to long distance.

To your bolded. That would only be relevant if all footballers were put through the same training program, but if you're already a good or great runner (relative to football), you're not going to be spending the vast majority of preseason working on improving something you don't need to over whatever happens to be the weaknesses in either your body or your game - many players will be working on aspects of their strength, for example. Upper body, core or their strength related to explosiveness. The fact Kobbie is deficient with his running in all aspects means he is simply working to meet the PL bar, so yes, he can work towards that without the gap between he and them/it widening because most won't be working intensively on keeping the gap equidistant.

Kobbie needs to get some serious work in on improving his stamina; in that aspect, he is like an aged player close to retirement more than he is a youngster with his best years ahead of him, and that needs to be addressed at the first opportunity.

Now VO2 max and endurance can most definitely be improved and you can see the benefits in a relatively short period of time (six to eight weeks). That said, many top level international players don't even get that kind of time to work on it.

But I really feel this is a place where our club is way off across the board and it's such low-hanging fruit. You can do it without killing your players and still have plenty of time to work on technical and tactical stuff.

 

[criticalanalysis]

A lot of the criticism of Mainoo is fair but until we finally seeing a Man Utd team that dominates the ball and midfield, I always verge on the side of 'yes he can do better but is the system really giving him a platform to perform?'. I've probably thought that for all of our players in the past 10+ years. It's why I hated ETH's approach last year despite seeing some progressive change in his first year and why I worry what we're seeing under Amorim too.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Of course he could - there have been sources where Amorim is unhappy with the body fat of certain players, their general fitness levels and their athleticism. There was talk about hiring a new sprint trainer. I think this applies to more players than just Mainoo, but considering he is very young, has struggled with fitness, no real pre-season and injuries, there is a real possibility that he will improve drastically. Ronaldo who was much, much faster to begin with improved his speed considerably by proper training from 18-25 for instance. Very few, if any, are at their physical prime at 19.

It really doesn't. He improved by half a second already being one of the fastest in the world. He had dedicated his training for years, and still he improved considerably. Some are born faster and some are born stronger, but if you train properly, you will get both faster and stronger than those who don't. Mainoo has struggled with injuries and hasn't had a proper pre-season. With proper dedicated sprint training, he will most likely improve quite massively. He will never be said Usain Bolt, but there is plenty of evidence that he would improve significantly.

I think probably the correct answer is that Bolt is not much of a comparison. Too many differences.

I really do struggle to think of any players who thought were a bit slow and who improved their speed. The slow ones have stayed slow and the fast ones have stayed fast. They are all already trying to maximise improvements in all areas.

 

[Ddannidom]

Wrong decision to work on his muscles to make it bigger. I don't know who advised him thus but it's made him so slow and ponderous on the field. His young brain struggles to balance his bulky mass with how he knew how to play and move - a tad seconds too late.

That's how he appears so slow.

 

[steeeb]

Didn't quite work out as a 9, but probably no worse than anyone would have been. Last game he was obsessed with passing it back in a 1 - 2 with anyone that passed him the ball and ended up losing possession most of the time due to it.

Would prefer him as a 10 with Amad RWB and ditch Dalot with Garnacho also a 10.

 

[Marwood]

It says a lot that fans debate his position. What's he actually good at, then?

You don't think he's good at anything?

 

[JBG]

You don't think he's good at anything?

I think the question is more, what/where is he good at in this current system?

 

[Insanity]

Didn't quite work out as a 9, but probably no worse than anyone would have been. Last game he was obsessed with passing it back in a 1 - 2 with anyone that passed him the ball and ended up losing possession most of the time due to it.

Would prefer him as a 10 with Amad RWB and ditch Dalot with Garnacho also a 10.

Yup. One of our #10's has to be a player with some pace and ability to get in behind the defense. It becomes too one-paced and easy to defend if we don't have that type of player as one of the 10's.