A 10 is one thing, a ‘10 in the current setup’ is another. He’s not a front three player, which effectively is what he would be asked to be as a 10 in this system. I think he still needs players ahead of him.
37
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 25
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 6
A 10 is one thing, a ‘10 in the current setup’ is another. He’s not a front three player, which effectively is what he would be asked to be as a 10 in this system. I think he still needs players ahead of him.
I think we will see a jump next year, he hasn't had a proper pre-season as a senior yet, got injured in 23/24, came back and was overplayed, then spent last Summer at an international tournament, coming back late, not getting the time to get the base physical work in, so if he gets a solid Summers work in we should see improvements.
However as Rozay stated above it is pretty clear that his abilities are best suited to a 3 man midfield, he lacks the running power and passing range to cover the spaces that an orthodox 2 creates. There is also not a natural partner for him, the Ugarte/Mainoo midfield was dead on arrival as neither are particularly quick or possess a wide passing range.This is why Bruno is playing deep, outside of Eriksen he is only one of the midfield options who can reliably progress the ball.
Even in a 3 man midfield you will need certain qualities around him to get his best level, forwards and midfield partners who can take the ball under pressure and allow his connective game to sparkle.
This is a big problem. A lot of his better performances have been against the better teams when you have played a low block, where his ability in tight spaces is a boon. When you have to be more positive against so-called 'lesser teams' then the game gets stretched and his lack of mobility becomes a huge handicap.
He has the potential to be. He is a very good finisher. Is a top dribbler, has vision. He is a good combo player. In this system as long as you have a proper 9 leading the line. A Mainoo type and an Inside forward type either side would be a boon. With flying wingbacks supporting the width. In terms of skillset I don't think he is far removed from a Xavi Simon who'd he a killer in this Amorim style 3-4-3. Im completely convinced his full potential is to be a Seedorf type attacking midfielder. Especially the version that played in Ancelotti's Christmas tree milan formation on the opposite side to Kaka.
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Seedorf was very agile and powerful. Can Mainoo become agile and powerful? I hope so!
You definitely can. He's not going to turn into a winger, but to suggest you can't improve your overall speed from 19 is just silly.
For your discipline of track and field, sure. He's not going to be a 100m sprinter, but he can obviously improve from 19. You're not at your physical peak at 19 and no track and field star is either.
Your second point is very valid though, I'm not sure how its possible he can if he's expected to be a first team regular and it's not like the off season is long enough to programe something to have a massive effect.
And he had immaculate technique. Granted that I'm a massive fan of Seedorf but the comparison is totally off.
Technically, at least Mainoo has something that is impressive. But in term of pace, stamina, agility and power he is almost the opposite of Seedorf.
Seedorf was a rare breed of near perfect technical ability combined with immense physical ability. I don't think all rounders like him exist in the modern game. Never mind the physical side, Mainoo hasn't the vision or creativity.
I agree Mainoo shares some similarities though. They both have two legs and two arms.
"He (Mainoo) reminds me of a young me with his body and movement.”
“But the thing that he has that I never did is his maturity on the ball at such a young age.”
Clareence Seedorf.
It is still relatively early days but thus far, he just does not seem to suit the new system and Amorim must be given a good spell with his own squad, rather than the usual five minutes managers get nowadays. I know plenty will disagree but personally, I think that they should consider selling him to the highest bidder. If Ugarte stays in the middle, which I believe he will do, then the player alongside him needs to have a great engine, strength and creativity.
With regards to the financial side of things and shaping his squad, Ruben Amorim has already stated how "difficult decisions will have to be made", perhaps Mainoo's future may well turn out to be one of them.
With regards to the financial side of things and shaping his squad, Ruben Amorim has already stated how "difficult decisions will have to be made", perhaps Mainoo's future may well turn out to be one of them.
Footballers say strange stuff all the time. Do you honestly believe that Mainoo has similar technical abilities, do you actually think that 19 years and CL final starter Seedorf was less mature on the ball than Mainoo is today?
I agree with the assessments on the limitations of Mainoo's game but apart from being slow and being deployed best as the third midfielder in a 4-3-3, I don't think there are huge similarities between Mainoo and Pogba.
Pogba carried more goal threat, had a better range of passing, was stronger and more aerially proficient.
I think there needs to be a lot more emphasis on developing the physical side of Mainoo's game with that in mind. Pogba without the traits mentioned above would've been a complete passenger, Mainoo is in danger of becoming that if he continues as he has been in the last few games.
Mainoo is a good baller. However, I don't see him as first team quality in a top EPL team. At least not yet. He has many limitations in terms of speed and passing distance. Also he has been very inconsistent in his performances.
I’m not sure why so many are so critical of our younger players. Yes there is some improvement needed but these are literally kids playing at the highest level of football. Take a step back for a minute and realize there’s going to be some growing pains.
That would be the ‘but a lot less good’ part I was referring to. Being slow and best deployed as the third midfielder in a 433 are significant similarities, they soeak to their profile. Beyond that, both are also highly technical players, with great close dribboability. He’s also still very young, we can’t speak definitively as to his goal threat yet, and I think he can carry a similar threat to Pogba for sure. He scored about 5 goals in half a season last term, and I think that’s impressive for an 18 year old midfielder.
The goalscoring potential is there, the only thing is his goal threat will be made up of slightly different attributes to Pogba. He hasn’t got the size to dominate and get headers like Pogba could, or the long range shooting ability, but I think he is a good finisher when the chance presents, and I don’t think Pogba had the mind of a goalscorer. I would back Pogba to finish better from 25 yards than I would from 12 yards for example, mentally, it’s a different process in both scenarios, and I think Mainoo is more natural from 12. Pogba is more likely to snatch at it from there.
We would need a proper 3 for Mainoo to shine tbh. He needs help going both ways, but the bit in between, he has the potential to do it to a very high level.
Science and research says otherwise. Speed is mainly genetic but can also be worked on and improved by up to 20%.
And by adverse affects, do you mean looking leggy, lethargic and less sharp.....I'll leave that there!!
How difficult is to increase stamina, power and agility as a 19 year old? I would have thought stamina and power is largely a function of training (allowing for some genetic variation). Pace cannot be fixed obviously but some of the top midfielders of all time were not athletic and were quite slow so not sure I buy that.
Seedorf's physicality and dynamism was evident at a very young age. Perhaps Kobbie is late bloomer, but right now I find it difficult to believe that he'll get there. What I do believe is that Kobbie will have a very good career. I'm just not sure he's suitable to any role in this system.
It's a bit of a conundrum and raises some questions for both the player and the team.
From Kobbie perspective, I would want to play as often as in a system that allows me to build on my strengths.
I reckon he'll mature physically and become really good in the pivot, next to a defensive mid
He really should be 3rd/4th choice now though, we're putting way too much pressure on his shoulders
He really should be 3rd/4th choice now though, we're putting way too much pressure on his shoulders
Yes I actually do. I witnessed the entire career of Seedorf. What Seedorf had over Mainoo at 19 was raw power Rooney style. At 17 he was literally a mature man physically. If Mainoo didn't have that extra bit of maturity Seedorf is talking of, with his current physical stature and lack of pace and stamina he'd get murdered in the senior game even with a similar game style to a Seedorf. It's that maturity that enables him to cope as his body catches up to the demands of the senior game. Mainoo still has plenty of physical development to go through. Some on here are talking like he is age 23/24 and at the final state of his physical and technical development. Yet he is simply a teen breaking into first team football. Some way from establishing himself. Its similar to how some on here talk of Garmacho.
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Fair enough, I don't think Mainoo is a mature Footballer, I don't think that he is as good as 18-19 years old Seedorf in any aspects whether it is physically, mentally and especially not technically. Mainoo is talented, I don't know how good he will be but he isn't currently equal to 1995 Seedorf.
I was just about to write exactly the same thing. At most clubs Mainoo, at 19, would still be getting experience in the U21’s or on loan to some lowly Dutch side. Due to us being an absolute shambles for the last decade this kid has been thrown into the limelight before he was probably physically ready to be.
Central midfield is notoriously the hardest position for young players to come into the side due to the physical demands defensively and attacking. Last season he was performing astoundingly for an 18 year old- even scoring in the FA Cup final.
Let’s lay off him and give him time to develop physically and learn the demands of playing the position at the top level. I really give up with some of our fans calling for him to be sold. An academy graduate with so much potential should be nurtured and protected- we’ve thrown him to the wolves.
To be fair. No one said he = seedorf 95. Not even Seedorf. All Seedorf said is their playing styles are similar and Mainoo has more maturity on the the ball. Which I defintely agree with. If he will get to be half as good when fully mature is up to Mainoo In terms of how far he desires to push his talent.
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You didn't say it but you pointed to Seedorf when you suggested a role for Mainoo. And I pointed to the fact that Mainoo is clearly a worse athlete and a worse technician. And lets be serious Mainoo is currently older than Seedorf was in 95, he isn't mature on the ball let alone more mature than Seedorf was.
And look I think that Mainoo is talented and could become a good to very good Footballer if he develops properly but he isn't equal to any version Seedorf and his current skillset wouldn't allow him to match Seedorf. But in Milan 4321, he would fit an other player that I also rate and was a very good all rounder, in Ambrosini.
I don’t know much about Seedorf at 19 but him being a CL final starter doesn't mean he's above Mainoo in terms of maturity.
Given the stage Mainoo has already appeared and performed on. Fifth youngest player ever to appear in a major international final isn't he?
I don't see where he's going to fit into this team
I agree, I like Mainoo but I don't see how he fits into this current team.
It's an example of when I've seen him play at a level that Mainoo hasn't. It's not a reason but just an historic reference.
Agreed. He's not ready for the type of pressure that comes with playing for United every week. We should be picking and choosing when to play him rather than being forced to play every week due to lack of options.
Strikes me as a player that requires/benefits from clear instructions from the coaching staff which Amorim seems very capable of, however he's putting out so many fires ar once that perhaps Mainoo gets overlooked.
Not loving him being stationed so far forward. He is very effective in the final 3rd, but I'd say that comes from him exploiting gaps from further back when defences are stretched/tired. Don't see him as a player to do this from higher up, plus you lose his composure from deep.
Unfortunately Amorim's style requires central players to be be fairly static on the pitch and the wingers transition from defence to attack. Can see Mainoo being another he doesn't deem to be up-to-standard for his style, sadly. Would be fuming to see him sold.
Unfortunately Amorim's style requires central players to be be fairly static on the pitch and the wingers transition from defence to attack. Can see Mainoo being another he doesn't deem to be up-to-standard for his style, sadly. Would be fuming to see him sold.
Not worried for his physicality, it's to be noted that players develop that aspect around mid 20's. He's never going to be the athletic box to box type like a Bellingham but he's got enough qualities to not be overlooked when assessing the starting 11. Ruben's use of system is not just rendering him without a position, Bruno will be in the same spot when an influx of more players come in and potentially a midfielder to partner Ugarte. Dalot, Maz and Zirkzee as well.
The benefit which we have witnessed recently with Zirkzee is that he has shown more versatility in different games, so as others have mentioned with more training sessions and a pre season, if Amorim proves his worth, by his own admission he will improve several of these players.
One things for certain though at this point Mainoo should be nowhere near a double pivot. Southgate as limited as he is rightly summarised that he only used Kobbie in the Euro's due to the supposed lack of options at his disposal beyond Rice.
Even though Kobbie had a good tournament once the team came up against a midfield that knew what it was doing, he was increasingly restricted. Amorim's game management has typically helped the team when making more offense minded changes during games, for home games it would be worth putting:
Amad - Bruno - Ugarte - Dorgu
Garnacho - - Kobbie
HZ
If Dorgu typically stayed further ahead it would allow Kobbie to theoretically drop deeper, meaning he's not recieving the ball as the final outfield player beyond the midfield, he can then run into spaces. Not too dissimilar to what Wirtz has done with Leverkusen when Grimaldo is stretching the play.
The benefit which we have witnessed recently with Zirkzee is that he has shown more versatility in different games, so as others have mentioned with more training sessions and a pre season, if Amorim proves his worth, by his own admission he will improve several of these players.
One things for certain though at this point Mainoo should be nowhere near a double pivot. Southgate as limited as he is rightly summarised that he only used Kobbie in the Euro's due to the supposed lack of options at his disposal beyond Rice.
Even though Kobbie had a good tournament once the team came up against a midfield that knew what it was doing, he was increasingly restricted. Amorim's game management has typically helped the team when making more offense minded changes during games, for home games it would be worth putting:
Amad - Bruno - Ugarte - Dorgu
Garnacho - - Kobbie
HZ
If Dorgu typically stayed further ahead it would allow Kobbie to theoretically drop deeper, meaning he's not recieving the ball as the final outfield player beyond the midfield, he can then run into spaces. Not too dissimilar to what Wirtz has done with Leverkusen when Grimaldo is stretching the play.
But Mainoo has played at that level. Many would say a major international final is bigger than a Champs League final.
In the semi he had the highest pass completition of a midfielder ever recorded in the tournaments history.
To say that isn't a mature player is quite a statement.
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He’s never going to work in Amorim’s system. The club has a big decision to make.
I am curious to learn more as this makes no sense from what I read elsewhere. Speed is definitely improved by proper training and general physical development. At 19 Usain Bolt ran 100m at 10,01. He improved a fair bit on that - and that was his profession as well as being a prodigy.
Mainoo doesn’t have good running technique. He looks a little heavy and can definitely improve. He is perhaps just finished growing. He could thus realistically improve more than Bolt did, relatively speaking. Ajer went from being the slowest 15 year old at Lillestrøm in Norway to clocking some of the fastest top speeds in the PL - according to him only due to training.
I think the fact that him and garnacho are always being mentioned as open to offers, means Amorim doesnt really fancy either player. They could both be world beaters at 24/25, who knows, but where we are today, we need players who suit Amorims system straight away and cant wait 4/5 years. The fact the club is broke as well, doesnt bode well to having the luxury of holding onto players, hoping they develop into fantastic footballers.
If anything that would back up the point of view that speed can’t be learned. Bolt got 4% quicker dedicating his whole life to achieving speed, and speed only. And it took him multiple years.
He didn't improve his speed by the 20% figure I've seen you repeating, though.
Yep, you'd think this would be exceedingly obvious.
The other obvious point being overlooked is that whatever training Mainoo could do... all players can carry out and are clearly incentivised to do so. So even if he could somehow miraculously improve his speed by 20%, that doesn't mean he would become faster relative to the elite professional athletes against whom he is competing.