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2024-25 Performances


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5.4 Season Average Rating
Appearances
14
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
5
Starting to get that “too casual” feeling I used to get from Berbatov, and to a much greater degree Martial.

Everything looks elegant, calm and relaxed, but when the intensity is high, just looks too laid back.
 
Kobbie's still young and it's normal for them young ones to go through rough patches.

From a longer term perspective, I'm going to have to agree with the other posters that he needs to improve his passing if he wants to make it at a top team. Either that, or become amazing at defending, which I just cannot see.

In the meantime, I hope he regains his ability to consistently beat his man especially in close spaces.
 
A thread was created a week or so ago with the title somewhere along the lines of "would you sell Kobbie Mainoo for £100m".
Well, judging him on last season, you would say probably not but as all young players find out, the following seasons are when it becomes harder to shine and maintain a good level of consistency.
It's impossible to know what type of player he'll become in a few years time. In my opinion -
*World class (unlikely)
*Very good (possibly)
*Good (probably)
*Average (unlikely)

As an academy player, he's already overhyped, which does him no favours but hopefully he becomes the player we all want him to be and gives United some top performances over a long period and if not then he'll just be the latest in a long line of Academy graduates that aren't good enough for the top teams.
Time will be the answer.
 
Think the criticism of his performances this season are as over the top as the praise last season. I'd say last season's set up suited him more and he was in somewhat better form but he's still much the same player.
 
Starting to get that “too casual” feeling I used to get from Berbatov, and to a much greater degree Martial.

Everything looks elegant, calm and relaxed, but when the intensity is high, just looks too laid back.
It's the Premier League, the intensity is high 75% of the time. Probably more so with games including us because teams knows brainless running makes us crumble.
 
Last season's emergence was accelerated because of the lack of midfield and he surpassed expectations. He's 19 and his playing time now is more appropriate, but he's still a very good footballer and an even better prospect despite his recent lack of form.
 
Sloppy performance.
I do have concerns about his lack of pace as when the opposition crank up the intensity he is floundering.
 
Think the criticism of his performances this season are as over the top as the praise last season. I'd say last season's set up suited him more and he was in somewhat better form but he's still much the same player.

Yes, some of the issues that are now being discussed were pointed out and ignored last season. He lacks progressive passing range and running power, but I think England came way too soon for him. He was injured last pre-season and came back late because of England this one, so he hasn't had a full first team pre-season yet to get himself properly physically prepared.

As it is I don't see he and Ugarte being an optimal fit, not enough passing range there, but Mainoo will come again.
 
Think the criticism of his performances this season are as over the top as the praise last season. I'd say last season's set up suited him more and he was in somewhat better form but he's still much the same player.

Yeah, I agree with this. He’s definitely having a classic “second season syndrome” that nearly all youngsters experience but it’s not like his form has fallen off a cliff. Even today there was a lot of good stuff mixed in with the poor moments. Last season those moments didn’t stick in the mind as much because we were all giddy about his potential. At the end of the day he’s part of a midfield that has nearly always dominated possession, so he’s doing most elements of his job just fine.
 
Another game, another day where you wonder what his actual position is. He doesn't really have the engine to get up and down the field, doesn't really have a progressive passing game and isn't that creative. Part of me feels he'd be better off in an Iniesta floating type role or a as the deepest midfielder but then again whilst he could take the ball under pressure he doesn't really have an expansive passing game.
 
Another game, another day where you wonder what his actual position is. He doesn't really have the engine to get up and down the field, doesn't really have a progressive passing game and isn't that creative. Part of me feels he'd be better off in an Iniesta floating type role or a as the deepest midfielder but then again whilst he could take the ball under pressure he doesn't really have an expansive passing game.
I think the jury is out on him at present. He is clearly a talent that United and Amorim.will want to keep and build around.

However we have a glaring need for a quality LWB. Depending on where Rueben sees Amad long term we have a glaring need for a RWB.

Once these two roles are filled with confident healthy players who are a real threat on the outside, can actually cross, and a good engine then we will see.

It's really hard to see how all the other pieces fit into the jigsaw whilst his most important edge pieces are so anonymous.
 
Think it was his best game since he returned, but he isnt winning the ball like before his injury where he was playing as a ball winner. He was a bit low on pass accuracy, but he had several bits of play that did come off with the ball and some that didnt.
 
Shouldn't be a guaranteed starter. Need to keep the kids grounded, very immature decisions made by him today and his stupidity cost us the third goal.
Did he pull out of the tackle ?

If yes is it a habit ?
 
I can’t get over the stupid chip that led to the goal.

His passing has gone down hill like everyone else. They need to practice more collectively.
 
He was poor yesterday but I am don't mind him, he is quality and he will get better, he is too good not to get better.

Areas he must improve is his passing and distribution, his link up is sublime and he can carry the ball well, but his passing range is quite limited and hopefully he improves that soon.
 
I am wondering whether it is better to swap him with Bruno. However, tough when he's out of form and seems also a bit slow and unfit
 
I am wondering whether it is better to swap him with Bruno. However, tough when he's out of form and seems also a bit slow and unfit

Mainoo hasn’t got the legs to run beyond the striker.

I think Mainoo is becoming a bit positionless in this formation.
 
That pass wasn't acceptable no matter what kind of formation we're playing. Happens with young players. He will improve.
 
Watching him yesterday I actually think that was his best game since his return. Still well off it but when trying to get back to fitness in a poor team, as well as clearly being off form is not helping him.

The Euros were the worst thing to happen for us, too much exposure to early. Just like we overplayed Garnacho last season.

I know a Mainoo thread, but how is Wharton getting on this season? He was massively hyped as well but not heard anything about him or watched Palace.
 
We're moving towards this lad becoming the next scapegoat aren't we?
I mean….just go look at just about every others player’s thread and it’s the same amount of criticism/negativity. Even Martinez is now being written off as not good enough/not top 4 quality. Hojlund being called a dud etc. - it’s not Mainoo specific at all.
 
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1. We need to limit his minutes. Not as punishment but to encourage him to play with a higher intensity in his more limited minutes.

2. He is playing as a connector and not a creative outlet. Which feels like a waste of his talent

He’s playing less like a Pogba (spraying a wide range of piercing passes or dangerous balls into the box)

And more like a Cleverly (cute interplay that helps with retention and connecting with the creative players)

Again, Not the worst thing but certainly a waste of his technical ability.
 
Ridiculous. Ugarte's progressive passing this season is not even in the same galaxy as Mainoo's progressive passing last season.

This season Mainoo is off it and Ugarte has grown into the role, but Ugarte is no fantastic progressive passer by any stretch of the imagination.
Just to follow up on this one, let's look at the actual stats comparing Mainoo last year to Ugarte in this year, like you suggest. Using Fbref stats, let's look a bit at per 90 contributions across some key passing categories.

Stats (Per 90 min.)Mainoo (23-24 season)Ugarte (24-25 season)
Progressive passes3.012.82
Key passes (leading to shots)0.680.73
Long passes completed1.512.91
Medium passes completed11.119.9
Assists0.040.07
Expected assists0.070.10

Source

Not even in the same galaxy, eh?

Now obviously Mainoo also does other progressive actions than passing, by carrying the ball past players, but in terms of progressive passing he is absolutely nothing special and not better than Ugarte.
 
Just to follow up on this one, let's look at the actual stats comparing Mainoo last year to Ugarte in this year, like you suggest. Using Fbref stats, let's look a bit at per 90 contributions across some key passing categories.

Stats (Per 90 min.)Mainoo (23-24 season)Ugarte (24-25 season)
Progressive passes3.012.82
Key passes (leading to shots)0.680.73
Long passes completed1.512.91
Medium passes completed11.119.9
Assists0.040.07
Expected assists0.070.10

Source

Not even in the same galaxy, eh?

Now obviously Mainoo also does other progressive actions than passing, by carrying the ball past players, but in terms of progressive passing he is absolutely nothing special and not better than Ugarte.
How people can't see the above with Long Passes and Medium passes is beyond me? He plays like we are some typ of City och Barca team with tiki taka. At the moment it should be either Ugarte and Casemiro/Bruno/Eriksen and Mainoo maybe at 10.
 
I think he is not very creative but desperately tries to be, he needs to do the basics right first before being too expansive. IMO his mistake directly caused the third goal, just do a normal pass why would you need to play a silly bounce pass(which of course looks good but is still a pass).
 
Just to follow up on this one, let's look at the actual stats comparing Mainoo last year to Ugarte in this year, like you suggest. Using Fbref stats, let's look a bit at per 90 contributions across some key passing categories.

Stats (Per 90 min.)Mainoo (23-24 season)Ugarte (24-25 season)
Progressive passes3.012.82
Key passes (leading to shots)0.680.73
Long passes completed1.512.91
Medium passes completed11.119.9
Assists0.040.07
Expected assists0.070.10

Source

Not even in the same galaxy, eh?

Now obviously Mainoo also does other progressive actions than passing, by carrying the ball past players, but in terms of progressive passing he is absolutely nothing special and not better than Ugarte.

Sorry to break the news, but you're letting the stat sheet obscure that which is easily observed by watching the game. Some stats are beyond dispute, such as goals and assists, but some other stats are the result of what someone believes and records as a "fact". Mainoo of last season offered much more as a midfielder on the ball than the Ugarte of this season, who offers vastly more than Mainoo in the ground duel. They're two different kinds of midfielders, which comes as no surprise to anyone. In a ground duel you want Ugarte there every single time. In the final third, I would much rather see the Mainoo of last season with the ball than the Ugarte of this season. His ability (former ability, as he's been off it this season) to emerge out of tight spaces, pick the right pass, take on a defender and convert the shot in a key situation -- such as in a FA Cup final for the match winner -- is substantially greater than Ugarte, who excels in ground duels -- a conclusion I reach relying solely by observation and not a stat sheet -- and picking out the right release pass.

We've become too obsessed with xG and other stats in evaluating a player's performance. We can all choose to take in the game any way we wish, but the old way is often the best way -- watching it. And in watching the game we can observe that Ugarte is a defensive midfielder, a midfielder who is proficient in ground duels and picks out good passes. Mainoo is a central midfielder who contributes (or contributed, if we must) more in the attack. But if we were to blind ourselves to observation and rely solely on these stats, one could easily be led to believe that Ugarte is the central/attacking midfielder and Mainoo is the defensive midfielder.

But let's be fair. United overall were crap last season and to suggest that Mainoo excelled in an otherwise in another otherwise poor performing squad might be deemed faint praise. However, it can actually be the case that a single player excels when everyone else around him performs poorly. And if you go over the match threads and third party commentary you will find consistent praise, at times very high praise, for Mainoo's performances. And high praise for his contributions -- "exceptional" -- to the national team, not just his club team, in the Euros. Paul Scholes, who knows more about being a midfielder than either of us, compared Mainoo to Zidane. (I have to see anyone compare Ugarte to a legend of the game.) Just to make sure I wasn't guilty of faulty memory I went back over media reports and my recollections were confirmed and in fact the praise for Mainoo by third parties was even more effusive than I recalled. But what is it about Mainoo that set (past tense for our immediate purposes) apart as a top class midfielder (surprisingly so, since he was still only a teenager), since he's not a prolific goal scorer nor prolific maker of assists? He's not a long ball merchant. He doesn't go on long dribbles. He just doesn't dazzle the stats man. What he does is emerge out of tight spaces in the middle and final third with the ball, brushing off opponents as though there were nothing more than a fleeting nuisance, with clever, albeit quiet, several touches of the ball on the dribble then advancing the ball into promising situations rather than settling for recycling the ball. This is a skillset we really don't see from Bruno, who though brilliant in his own way (which I'm sure the stats confirm) too often rushes passes and too often goes for the long ball when it's really not on. Ugarte breaking up play and finds a long pass (2.91 v 1.51) as that what you would often expect from a 6, but Mainoo is (or was, since we're comparing Mainoo of 23/24 to Ugarte of 24 so far) does not look for the long ball and is the better option as an 8 and Ugarte the better option as a 6 -- and if you asked either for their own assessment I seriously doubt either would disagree.
 
Sorry to break the news, but you're letting the stat sheet obscure that which is easily observed by watching the game. Some stats are beyond dispute, such as goals and assists, but some other stats are the result of what someone believes and records as a "fact".
Yeah sorry, I'm not going to read that whole post, when you start with that. You said Mainoo was in "a different galaxy" last season to Ugarte this season, when it comes specifically to progressive passing, and it just plainly isn't true. You can decide to not believe in stats - I won't.
 
Openly choosing to just disregard statistics and analytics entirely in 2024 is certainly a choice I guess.

As with all things, data is best viewed in context, but anyone who solely prefers the “eye test” is generally going to miss a lot of things because no one’s brain has the capacity to log and remember every action like a computer can. There’s a reason so many smaller clubs have closed the gaps in recent years and it’s not because they have the greatest collection of scouts the world has ever seen.

As far as taking stock of Mainoo, the data tells what I think is probably the most accurate story of the kid right now: he’s not confident in threading the ball through the lines at this moment, and much prefers playing it neat and safe/short while relying on his on ball abilities to carry out his duties in possession. That’s fine but ultimately the next step for him will have to be improving his range and distribution or he’s not going to be a starter worthy midfielder in a team looking to compete for trophies.
 
He should keep it simple and have a wider range of vision, he should cut out the flicks and tricks as if it's a 5-a-side match.

Should work on his positioning too,that is the only way he can make up for his lack of athleticism
 
Sorry to break the news, but you're letting the stat sheet obscure that which is easily observed by watching the game. Some stats are beyond dispute, such as goals and assists, but some other stats are the result of what someone believes and records as a "fact". Mainoo of last season offered much more as a midfielder on the ball than the Ugarte of this season, who offers vastly more than Mainoo in the ground duel. They're two different kinds of midfielders, which comes as no surprise to anyone. In a ground duel you want Ugarte there every single time. In the final third, I would much rather see the Mainoo of last season with the ball than the Ugarte of this season. His ability (former ability, as he's been off it this season) to emerge out of tight spaces, pick the right pass, take on a defender and convert the shot in a key situation -- such as in a FA Cup final for the match winner -- is substantially greater than Ugarte, who excels in ground duels -- a conclusion I reach relying solely by observation and not a stat sheet -- and picking out the right release pass.

We've become too obsessed with xG and other stats in evaluating a player's performance. We can all choose to take in the game any way we wish, but the old way is often the best way -- watching it. And in watching the game we can observe that Ugarte is a defensive midfielder, a midfielder who is proficient in ground duels and picks out good passes. Mainoo is a central midfielder who contributes (or contributed, if we must) more in the attack. But if we were to blind ourselves to observation and rely solely on these stats, one could easily be led to believe that Ugarte is the central/attacking midfielder and Mainoo is the defensive midfielder.

But let's be fair. United overall were crap last season and to suggest that Mainoo excelled in an otherwise in another otherwise poor performing squad might be deemed faint praise. However, it can actually be the case that a single player excels when everyone else around him performs poorly. And if you go over the match threads and third party commentary you will find consistent praise, at times very high praise, for Mainoo's performances. And high praise for his contributions -- "exceptional" -- to the national team, not just his club team, in the Euros. Paul Scholes, who knows more about being a midfielder than either of us, compared Mainoo to Zidane. (I have to see anyone compare Ugarte to a legend of the game.) Just to make sure I wasn't guilty of faulty memory I went back over media reports and my recollections were confirmed and in fact the praise for Mainoo by third parties was even more effusive than I recalled. But what is it about Mainoo that set (past tense for our immediate purposes) apart as a top class midfielder (surprisingly so, since he was still only a teenager), since he's not a prolific goal scorer nor prolific maker of assists? He's not a long ball merchant. He doesn't go on long dribbles. He just doesn't dazzle the stats man. What he does is emerge out of tight spaces in the middle and final third with the ball, brushing off opponents as though there were nothing more than a fleeting nuisance, with clever, albeit quiet, several touches of the ball on the dribble then advancing the ball into promising situations rather than settling for recycling the ball. This is a skillset we really don't see from Bruno, who though brilliant in his own way (which I'm sure the stats confirm) too often rushes passes and too often goes for the long ball when it's really not on. Ugarte breaking up play and finds a long pass (2.91 v 1.51) as that what you would often expect from a 6, but Mainoo is (or was, since we're comparing Mainoo of 23/24 to Ugarte of 24 so far) does not look for the long ball and is the better option as an 8 and Ugarte the better option as a 6 -- and if you asked either for their own assessment I seriously doubt either would disagree.

Summary of the discussion:

lex: Mainoo is a much better progressive passer than Ugarte.

others 1: Not really based on what we've seen, are you sure we're talking about the same thing here?
others 2: Btw here are some stats.

lex: I'm telling you, Mainoo has incredible potential and skillz yo! x 100

others: Nobody is denying he's a talented player with some really good attributes but we're talking solely about progressive passing here..
 
This shows his performance, not just the good bits like these sorts of videos tend to do.
For me, like a lot of his team mates, had a bad game, not terrible like most are suggesting. Loose touches, overplaying, underhit passes and just plain mishits.
I think it's a combination of a couple of things.
Firstly, teams now have film on him and have figured out that he relies a lot on feints and misdirections, so they aren't over committing as much. This is why his dribble success looks to have gone down.
Secondly, he's moved away from what made him a good user of the ball. Last season, he kept it 90 to 95% simple. He seems to have moved away from that.
He needs to go back to basics. Kept it simple, almost become boring so when he does a fake, it's more effective.
He is a more naturally progressive player than Ugarte, but he could learn a lot about how to be a proper midfielder from the Uruguaian.
He's young and still learning and there's an argument he shouldn't be a starter for us at this time but hopefully he'll get better, quickly because quite frankly, we don't have options at the moment.

 
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We're moving towards this lad becoming the next scapegoat aren't we?
This is the danger of building the young players up too much.

Also I think people take it worse when a player looks….languid, on the pitch. If they’re sprinting and chasing everything but it’s still not going right for them it’s a lot easier to take