He'll likely miss most of this pre-season given that he's playing now and will need a break.
37
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 32
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
He'll likely miss most of this pre-season given that he's playing now and will need a break.
Let me guess, Media and Southgate will blame Mainoo for the goal and media will scream for Trent again and Southgate listens to media like usual and plays Trent next game?
Nah no chance, everyone seems to be singing his praises in the immediate reaction. He'll start every game now
Let me guess, Media and Southgate will blame Mainoo for the goal and media will scream for Trent again and Southgate listens to media like usual and plays Trent next game?
No chance, the media would get absolutely slaughtered on social media
Do players normally develop that range or playing style at this age? Genuinely hope so but not so sure.
Excellent point and one I was making earlier
Special player.
I’m hoping he can be another Seedorf. Class close control but always with a purpose, brilliant one touch short passes, just a brilliant combination player. And he can do all the midfield basics to a high level but you’d want a Pirlo and Gattuso alongside him to have a complete midfield. He’s got a lot of growth to get there but he has some incredible fundamentals.
People saying that he needs to get in more open spaces with not players around him doesn't understand what his game is about.
He is the best when he is around opposition players because he can beat them with his quick turn around, fast feet, and drive forward with pace. His composure around opposition players, decisions making and skill is the reason he dominate again some of the best midfielders in City or Liverpool. Not even Rodri from City manage to stop him.
He doesn't need to get in more space. He needs a coach in England that teach their players to not be afraid to pass the ball to him.
He is the best when he is around opposition players because he can beat them with his quick turn around, fast feet, and drive forward with pace. His composure around opposition players, decisions making and skill is the reason he dominate again some of the best midfielders in City or Liverpool. Not even Rodri from City manage to stop him.
He doesn't need to get in more space. He needs a coach in England that teach their players to not be afraid to pass the ball to him.
Most people watch him and imagine themselves playing in his position, so they see him closely guarded by a couple of players and think his positioning is poor.
The thing is, most of them can't trap a bag of cement and would break an ankle trying some of the turns and feints Kobbie pulls off. Mainoo doesn't have that problem, and like you've realised, passing the ball to him in those positions between the lines is how you're going to get the best out of him and break down a stubborn defence.
Agree. I feel like it will be terrible for him if a coach tries to teach him out of that and he start becoming a more safe player. Gladly Ten Hag understand that
Mental
Literally just about to post this. Steinbergs a dickhead
Typical media reaction to a United player. ABU syndrome.
He's getting praised on opposition forums. Nice to see.
StatsBomb CEO, generally knows what he's talking about but strange take.
He’s a scumbag hack!
Jacob’s still butt hurt that his “EXCLUSIVE” on the eve of the F A cup Final, that Ten Hag would be sacked, failed so spectacularly.
He had zero sources and basically gambled and went all in… then got made to look like the dick that he is. Then got trounced all over Twitter so like a spoiled child, is having regular tantrums and targeting one player… usually a Daily Mail trick that.
I can kind of understand what hes saying from a standards of a tournament favourite kind of way. But it falls apart very quickly when you look at the alternatives.
Steinberg is just being spiteful. Or he's genuinely a bit slow
This thing about having an expansive passing range is quite a strange talking point when it comes to Mainoo. His game is naturally short, sharp passes and combination progression or ball-carrying. Generally, players of that style are going to look to do those things first and foremost rather than opt for a longer pass that has a lower likelihood of coming off, but another pressing matter that isn't spoken about at all when querying why Mainoo rarely goes long is that the movement around him for both club and country has generally been diabolical, and longer passes need a lot more off the ball runners to be effective.
England are completely static. There's not a single player running long or away from the ball. Even Saka prefers shorter to feet than longer and over the top. Kane has been like a statue, providing zero passing lanes away from himself and barely even working himself clear for the ball to feet. Bellingham is never in any one place long enough and he doesn't run channels either. Foden is in no man's land, so what are the longer progressive options in such a stationary team? Scholes can be mentioned all day long, but he played in United teams that had runners all around him, eager and willing to run away from the ball and forage for open space for Scholes to play the ball into or over for them. Kroos has this too, as do practically all the renowned long passers. They were not in static teams.
This thing about movement off the ball. Mainoo makes an ample amount of space to be played into by anyone half competent and confident in their ability. He keeps getting ignored by teammates in that England set up who don't back themselves to play anything even moderately challenging and there's only so much that can be done to cater for them and their incompetence before it becomes an exercise in diminishing returns. Why? Because if Mainoo has to run miles into space, he's tiring himself out, but also reducing his own effectiveness to play progressive, short passing chains. There's no question that Mainoo's best work is all close-quarter be that half turns on a sixpence, or initiating rapid interplay into combination passes, or even 2-touch where he is the hub with others running off him and him reconnecting - if he's had to run too far into space for the benefit of others, the likelihood of a chain initialising reduces considerably, as does even his chance to be progressive because nobody else is moving! They all just stand there, like bollards, and that has nothing to do with Mainoo. In any functional team, a number of players will come alive the moment a potential passing chain is in the offing. None of the elite retainers were an island.
There was a point in today's game where Rice passed to Mainoo near the halfway line and then literally stood there about 5 yards away from Mainoo, like he'd crashed offering Mainoo not only a non viable option, but blocking off an area of the pitch for him to either run into or pass through... that should never happen and such things are not a failing of Mainoo, but those he's working with.
He's far from infallible as a player, but he represents a certain style of play, and it's really up to others to get with the program as there's only so much that should be done to cater for clear failings in their own game without compromising his.
England are completely static. There's not a single player running long or away from the ball. Even Saka prefers shorter to feet than longer and over the top. Kane has been like a statue, providing zero passing lanes away from himself and barely even working himself clear for the ball to feet. Bellingham is never in any one place long enough and he doesn't run channels either. Foden is in no man's land, so what are the longer progressive options in such a stationary team? Scholes can be mentioned all day long, but he played in United teams that had runners all around him, eager and willing to run away from the ball and forage for open space for Scholes to play the ball into or over for them. Kroos has this too, as do practically all the renowned long passers. They were not in static teams.
This thing about movement off the ball. Mainoo makes an ample amount of space to be played into by anyone half competent and confident in their ability. He keeps getting ignored by teammates in that England set up who don't back themselves to play anything even moderately challenging and there's only so much that can be done to cater for them and their incompetence before it becomes an exercise in diminishing returns. Why? Because if Mainoo has to run miles into space, he's tiring himself out, but also reducing his own effectiveness to play progressive, short passing chains. There's no question that Mainoo's best work is all close-quarter be that half turns on a sixpence, or initiating rapid interplay into combination passes, or even 2-touch where he is the hub with others running off him and him reconnecting - if he's had to run too far into space for the benefit of others, the likelihood of a chain initialising reduces considerably, as does even his chance to be progressive because nobody else is moving! They all just stand there, like bollards, and that has nothing to do with Mainoo. In any functional team, a number of players will come alive the moment a potential passing chain is in the offing. None of the elite retainers were an island.
There was a point in today's game where Rice passed to Mainoo near the halfway line and then literally stood there about 5 yards away from Mainoo, like he'd crashed offering Mainoo not only a non viable option, but blocking off an area of the pitch for him to either run into or pass through... that should never happen and such things are not a failing of Mainoo, but those he's working with.
He's far from infallible as a player, but he represents a certain style of play, and it's really up to others to get with the program as there's only so much that should be done to cater for clear failings in their own game without compromising his.
Anyone else just in complete awe of how good he is at dribbling? The ball sticks to his feet.
It feels like hes played within himself at times for England. Safe, conservative etc. Then he suddenly realizes the team needs more or it’s gonna be a disaster. And he comes alive.
The England team would be a lot better if Kobbie’s afforded the same latitude to make mistakes as some of his more senior colleges in central midfield.
The England team would be a lot better if Kobbie’s afforded the same latitude to make mistakes as some of his more senior colleges in central midfield.
This, exactly this. Folks were trying to convince me he wasn't showing for the ball. He was, England's players, particularly in defence just refused to give him the ball if anyone was a couple of metres from him. At United, they know they can pass him the ball and he'll keep it.
He was showing for the ball in probably about 75% of all phases of play when he was on the pitch. More than any other player by a mile. Anyone saying that is bonkers. Bonkers I tell ya
I think he's got loads of ability . I don't think he's a deep midfielder , he doesn't look to get into space to receive and pass , he naturally goes towards an opponent to recieve , because he doesn't want to recieve and pass, he wants to beat a man then pass.
He's not going to get passed to in deep areas taking up positions where he's marked , he actively seeks it .
He's probably going to have to learn the different positioning .
He's not going to get passed to in deep areas taking up positions where he's marked , he actively seeks it .
He's probably going to have to learn the different positioning .
Yeah I felt there was a number of times today when the likes of Walker, Stones and Bellingham could have passed to Mainoo and they didn't. Given whenever he did get on the ball he generally looked comfortable and positive, I thought it was a bit odd.
Probably more due to instructions, but his movement was very static today.
Mainoo is not a defensive midfielder or a deep lying playmaker or a 6 - he still needs to develop better defensive acumen, stamina, and long range passing. He's looked his most vulnerable when primarily tasked with screening or dynamically cutting out passing lanes. His passing skills are limited when trying to connect defense with midfield or attack. ETH tried to use him in that role at times this season - and it's clear that's a poor fit.
He can play as a box to box if needed. While he lacks in stamina for a full 90 (something that'll get better with age), he is good at dribbling and carrying the ball forward through central midfield, with the ability to find short/medium passes to bring other progressive players (forwards, wingers, overlapping full backs) into play. He is also decent at tackling and finding interceptions when out of possession. But that's not his strength, either.
He's not an out and out attacking midfier/10, either. While he can dribble, he's not someone who has the strength, guile, or pace to take on the last defender consistently. While he can pass, you can't expect him to find KDB/Bruno-esque killer balls. While he can score (and has put in some worldies this season), he doesn't have that knack of turning up at the right place at the right time, yet.
The best way to use him is to have him connect defensive midfield to attack. He's press resistent, very spatially aware, agile, and gifted with clean technique. Which, as others have pointed out in this thread, means that unlike other players who try to move into space and out of pressure to receive the ball, Mainoo drifts into tight spaces between opposition lines because his skill is in transition - to receive it under pressure, dribble through tight spaces with quick feet and sudden turns, find angles for clean passes, and provide movement for quick combination plays. You instruct your CBs/DMs/FBs to keep finding Mainoo, and he'll very quickly transition play into a situation where your 10s, wingers, or forwards have the ball and are running at the last man or the keeper. It is a sort of a hybrid 8/10 role. He won't get top goals, or top assists. Don't expect him to. What you should build the team for is to help him maximize the most number of pre-assists.
At club level, he lacks defensive screening and movment/technique around him (bar Bruno) to help him succeed. Funnily enough, he's theoretically he's got the right players in the England side (Rice as DM, Bellingham driving forward, movement from Foden/Saka, ability on the ball around him), but the team is clueless about roles and instructions under Southgate, and his England teammates aren't passing to him when he's marked (out of natural habit), or providing movement for him when he has the ball (poor tactical instructions and setup, lack of faith and familiarity).
A top class manager can build an elite international side with this England squad, with Mainoo having as key a role as Bellingham, Rice, or Kane. At United, Casemiro is in decline as a defensive force, so we need a DM alongside Mainoo and Bruno. Also, the only two defenders who could consistently find Mainoo were Licha and Dalot. We need Shaw back, and a ball playing CB to either partner Licha or replace him when he's injured.
He can play as a box to box if needed. While he lacks in stamina for a full 90 (something that'll get better with age), he is good at dribbling and carrying the ball forward through central midfield, with the ability to find short/medium passes to bring other progressive players (forwards, wingers, overlapping full backs) into play. He is also decent at tackling and finding interceptions when out of possession. But that's not his strength, either.
He's not an out and out attacking midfier/10, either. While he can dribble, he's not someone who has the strength, guile, or pace to take on the last defender consistently. While he can pass, you can't expect him to find KDB/Bruno-esque killer balls. While he can score (and has put in some worldies this season), he doesn't have that knack of turning up at the right place at the right time, yet.
The best way to use him is to have him connect defensive midfield to attack. He's press resistent, very spatially aware, agile, and gifted with clean technique. Which, as others have pointed out in this thread, means that unlike other players who try to move into space and out of pressure to receive the ball, Mainoo drifts into tight spaces between opposition lines because his skill is in transition - to receive it under pressure, dribble through tight spaces with quick feet and sudden turns, find angles for clean passes, and provide movement for quick combination plays. You instruct your CBs/DMs/FBs to keep finding Mainoo, and he'll very quickly transition play into a situation where your 10s, wingers, or forwards have the ball and are running at the last man or the keeper. It is a sort of a hybrid 8/10 role. He won't get top goals, or top assists. Don't expect him to. What you should build the team for is to help him maximize the most number of pre-assists.
At club level, he lacks defensive screening and movment/technique around him (bar Bruno) to help him succeed. Funnily enough, he's theoretically he's got the right players in the England side (Rice as DM, Bellingham driving forward, movement from Foden/Saka, ability on the ball around him), but the team is clueless about roles and instructions under Southgate, and his England teammates aren't passing to him when he's marked (out of natural habit), or providing movement for him when he has the ball (poor tactical instructions and setup, lack of faith and familiarity).
A top class manager can build an elite international side with this England squad, with Mainoo having as key a role as Bellingham, Rice, or Kane. At United, Casemiro is in decline as a defensive force, so we need a DM alongside Mainoo and Bruno. Also, the only two defenders who could consistently find Mainoo were Licha and Dalot. We need Shaw back, and a ball playing CB to either partner Licha or replace him when he's injured.
Generally agree with the rest, but it seems like where we're going next season is the following:
Onana, Shaw, Martinez, De Ligt, Dalot, Mainoo, Ugarte, Bruno, Garnacho, Amad, Hojlund.
(The attack could be constructed in other ways esp. with Zirkzee but I went with a Wide creator, inside forward, #9 for this example). Build up (3-2 structure) I assume will look something like:
------------ Ugarte ------- Mainoo ------------
------ Shaw --- Martinez --- De Ligt ------
De Ligt and Shaw will have the license to carry the ball and will defend the wide spaces in transitions. Both are really good at this - Shaw because he played LB and De Ligt because he did that for the Dutch team for example in a 3-5-2.
I think it will work just fine esp. with the role you outlined for Mainoo but curious to get your take.
I think some people just don't understand the type of player Kobbie is, or just have their own idea of what a midfielder is meant to do and if he doesn't do that then they think he's overrated.
A case in point is how different sources rated his performance yesterday. Steinberg in the Guardian gave him a 6 and said he 'did not protect the defence'. A 6 might have been fair, but he gave a bunch of the late subs 7s, even Konsa...
Whereas Sky gave Mainoo a 7, one of the highest ratings from those who started the game, and described him as the 'shining light'.
You can't please everyone, and people are going to see what they want to see.
A case in point is how different sources rated his performance yesterday. Steinberg in the Guardian gave him a 6 and said he 'did not protect the defence'. A 6 might have been fair, but he gave a bunch of the late subs 7s, even Konsa...
Whereas Sky gave Mainoo a 7, one of the highest ratings from those who started the game, and described him as the 'shining light'.
You can't please everyone, and people are going to see what they want to see.
We're likely going to sign another attacker (after shipping Sancho and Greenwood) and also another CB and likely a LB
Steinberg has an agenda though, he’s an absolute tosser. Mainoo could score a hat trick in the final and he’d still be lucky to scrape a 7.
Steinberg? Isn't he the one who said we were sacking ETH?
Thought he was good.
Few times he had a risky/better passing option but chose the safe pass instead. Would like to see him try and switch the play quicker, there were times when he'd pick the ball up and Walker would make the run, but he wouldn't just ping it out to him. Whether that's instruction or not, I don't know, but I think he needs to start seeing and picking those passes out earlier.
Overall though, anyone who thinks he didn't have a good game must have been watching something else.
Few times he had a risky/better passing option but chose the safe pass instead. Would like to see him try and switch the play quicker, there were times when he'd pick the ball up and Walker would make the run, but he wouldn't just ping it out to him. Whether that's instruction or not, I don't know, but I think he needs to start seeing and picking those passes out earlier.
Overall though, anyone who thinks he didn't have a good game must have been watching something else.
He's fecking mint. I adore him. Even I, a Scotsman, was cheering him on yesterday. Then immediately reverted to type when he was subbed 
Yeah and gave a pretty withering review of Mainoo's performance against Iceland, where the whole team struggled.
He got a lot of heat from fans so at this point he was probably doing it on purpose, but I think the point still stands.
Echo the same sentiment, I think if England swap Mainoo with Bellingham having Kobbie drop slightly deeper in his base position as an 8 the performances will improve giving England control throughout the midfield but it would negate Jude's ability to be productive around the box, which is needed at a time when Kane doesn't have the intent (likely due to physicality) to consistently attack the final third.
You can see where Kobbie lacks awareness screening the defense positionally and it's a similar a factor to a lesser extent with Pogba where he was best used having Pirlo / Vidal behind and as defensive cover, where he could play off the left midfield still contributing to the defense but with less importance on his play positionally.
It is nonchalant of Southgate putting him in a double pivot but it speaks volumes to his poor qualities as a coach, failing to find balance in a position England are well catered for. The reality is Mainoo does two things well despite his weaknesses, he makes an effort to cover the spaces so there's admiration and he's so well rounded in possession that it offsets the scrutiny he would otherwise receive.
His future at United should be nothing below the requirements of an 8. The only criteria that could change this dynamic is if the staff develop him and with his own maturity he naturally begins to read the game better and perhaps becomes more reminiscent of a Michael Carrick (not entirely the same), not being a destroyer but being integral with his positioning. As Rio mentioned previously that Carrick's defensive game was underrated because he would cut off passing lines taking away the angles for the ball to be deployed into.
He needs to be as close to the opposition box as possible imo. We've already seen how calm he is when finishing and whenever he's around the box his quick one twos and movement always creates space and opportunities. I see him as a 10 or 8 that could and probably will drop deeper the older he gets like a Keane/Scholes.
He pretty much instantly became my favourite United player, and I find myself barely engaging with England games when he’s not on the pitch. He’s at his best receiving the ball in tight spots and turning to take on defenders. I would have loved to see him and Grealish making their way up the pitch playing one twos together this tournament, but there we go.
He showed his class with the ball at his feet two or three times last night, but overall I was disappointed with the number of times he received the ball deep and then just played a simple backwards or sideways pass. Maybe Southgate’s instructions, I don’t know. The whole England team looks paralysed, he’s far from the only one playing within his shell, and of course he’s very young.
Any other manager would be telling him to take people on every chance he gets and screaming at the defenders to pass to him. The England team is totally risk averse, to the point where it has become farcical, and I doubt we’re going to see him any where near his best until he’s back in a United shirt.
He showed his class with the ball at his feet two or three times last night, but overall I was disappointed with the number of times he received the ball deep and then just played a simple backwards or sideways pass. Maybe Southgate’s instructions, I don’t know. The whole England team looks paralysed, he’s far from the only one playing within his shell, and of course he’s very young.
Any other manager would be telling him to take people on every chance he gets and screaming at the defenders to pass to him. The England team is totally risk averse, to the point where it has become farcical, and I doubt we’re going to see him any where near his best until he’s back in a United shirt.
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