It doesn’t prove they were clueless here either, right?
You basically made no point at all, but just repeating your implication that they were clueless. I get it.
Kieran McKenna | Close to signing long term deal to stay at Ipswich
- Thread starter roonster09
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You basically made no point at all, but just repeating your implication that they were clueless. I get it.
The fact that you're being defensive, perhaps? That's twice you made posts addressing things I haven't said in order to defend your previous "what do they even do?!" posts. You're allowed to admit that you might have been mistaken, you know?
You must have confused with me another poster because I've not posted about them recently and I don't have particular strong views of them during their time under Ole. Clearly whatever criticism they've both had from others is making you triggered and defensive.
We should really stop peddling this, Ole was 100% at fault.
He’s doing very very well. He’s going to the top I reckon. If he can get back to back promotions then that’s a massive achievement.
Hutchinson? He's on loan from Chelsea so probably best not to get used to having him.
Yeah, Hutchinson. He looks really good.Hutchinson? He's on loan from Chelsea so probably best not to get used to having him.
Averaging above 3 goals per home game this season is very impressive. 15 different players in the squad have scored already. Reminds me of the old Fergie teams where everyone chipped in with goals. Pretty much scored the most goals in the country last season and outscoring every other team already this season so far. Playing some of the best attacking football in the country at the moment.
He seems to be ticking a lot of the right boxes in areas most Manchester United fans look for in a manager.
Attacking football, mostly home grown players and promotions from the academy. High scoring wins and a mixture of scorers is definitely part of the culture of we should be looking for.
Of course I’m not saying get rid of Ten, I still think he can do well but it’s good to see potential candidates doing well too.
Hopefully we can send those doing well in the youth teams there on loan after Christmas. Thinking about Gore and maybe Shola.
Attacking football, mostly home grown players and promotions from the academy. High scoring wins and a mixture of scorers is definitely part of the culture of we should be looking for.
Of course I’m not saying get rid of Ten, I still think he can do well but it’s good to see potential candidates doing well too.
Hopefully we can send those doing well in the youth teams there on loan after Christmas. Thinking about Gore and maybe Shola.
I feel so vindicated watching himself and Carrick play beautiful flowing football with near-identical patterns of play.
They both tend to play a lopsided 4-2-3-1 but with a 3-2-5 build-up. The right-back tends to tuck in as part of a 3 whereas the left-back plays high and wide. McKenna especially is getting the best out of this left-back called Leif Davis, in the same way that Carrick was getting the most out of Ryan Giles last season. In my view, none of them are amazing individual talents but the system means that they are regularly found in space with many options to pick from. A key part of their game is to overload one side before switching it over to the space on the far side.
During the Ole era, it was dissapointing that a lot of fans with a limited understanding of tactics regularly attacked the coaching despite not being able to spot the patterns being used.
It’s a testament to McKenna’s quality that Ipswich are already 8 points clear in an automatic promotion spot (with only the massive Leicester ahead of them) despite being newly promoted from League 1. It is also a testament to Carrick’s quality that Middlesbrough are only two points off a play-off spot despite losing most of their starters from last season and losing the first 4/5 games. Both McKenna and Carrick, as they did with Ole, have shown that they can coach their teams to go on long winning runs.
It would be amazing if both of them get promoted to the Prem this season. However, should they struggle due to inadequate resources, it would be a shame when it is inevitably decontextualised and those who already decided that they both know nothing about football or coaching will say “look, I told you so! They’re both FRAUDS”.
They both tend to play a lopsided 4-2-3-1 but with a 3-2-5 build-up. The right-back tends to tuck in as part of a 3 whereas the left-back plays high and wide. McKenna especially is getting the best out of this left-back called Leif Davis, in the same way that Carrick was getting the most out of Ryan Giles last season. In my view, none of them are amazing individual talents but the system means that they are regularly found in space with many options to pick from. A key part of their game is to overload one side before switching it over to the space on the far side.
During the Ole era, it was dissapointing that a lot of fans with a limited understanding of tactics regularly attacked the coaching despite not being able to spot the patterns being used.
It’s a testament to McKenna’s quality that Ipswich are already 8 points clear in an automatic promotion spot (with only the massive Leicester ahead of them) despite being newly promoted from League 1. It is also a testament to Carrick’s quality that Middlesbrough are only two points off a play-off spot despite losing most of their starters from last season and losing the first 4/5 games. Both McKenna and Carrick, as they did with Ole, have shown that they can coach their teams to go on long winning runs.
It would be amazing if both of them get promoted to the Prem this season. However, should they struggle due to inadequate resources, it would be a shame when it is inevitably decontextualised and those who already decided that they both know nothing about football or coaching will say “look, I told you so! They’re both FRAUDS”.
Ten hag seem to be ticking all the boxes before joining us.
Fans have to understand instant success is not going to happen whether than McKenna or ETH or De Zebri. Given the manager at least 2 seasons and see where they are. Also, the pressure at United is much higher than in Ipswich, not saying he is a bad coach but I feel McKenna should stick with them and get promoted to PL and get a PL experience before making the next big jump. Talent is definitely there so one to look out for.
we’ll never sign him to be our manager as long as anyone who played under Ole is still at the club. The players won’t give him the respect and chance he needs to succeed.
Where is the grass greener?
It’s seems it’s frowned upon to comment on the good deeds of some without the perceptions of slight to others.
No where in my post did I suggest getting rid of the current manger or that he still doesn’t appeal to me for his characteristics or otherwise.
I’m not part of the Ten Hag out club just to confirm and when I talk of future manager I mean 3 to 4 years into the future. I see it like scouting players. They may not be ready now but future succession is important. For context I was singing his praises when we were doing well last season too. I fully agree though that nothing guaranteed and he probably needs top flight experience first. Be great if he could get them promoted and build on that for sure.
I can see what you mean as I think there’s definitely more player power now but in this case im not sure. If things turn out well we could have some players he managed in the youth teams I believe/ think/ to tired to confirm!
Sorry I’m not sure what your asking from me?
It’s not that, it’s the fans. “Everything that ole touched is bad” or “everything Woodward touched is bad”. These people don’t realize that you don’t have to burn it to the ground to build something good
Oh, it’s just a sigh about the fact that it’s only two years since most visible Man Utd fans mocked and jeered about the obvious and insulting incompetence of Kieran McKenna - ‘why must our incompetent leadership always get underqualified duds, when tomorrows superstar manager (Erik ten Hag) is revolutionizing football with flair and youth over there in Amsterdam!’ Etc.
Two years on and Ten Hag has shown nothing while the grass is suddenly greener again in Ipswich and Middlesborough.
Tbf it was unfair launching this at your post. I agree with what you said about McKenna (still) being a very interesting prospect for a good manager that may one day reach the level of experience and charismatic authority (more doubtful) that is needed to not get chased with pitchforks at Man Utd (by a portion of the fans and a few of the players), and then sacked a year later). Neither did you say Ten Hag should be sacked.
Surely, much more importantly, he needs to go and manage a top team and be successful there. This is the start of McKenna's managerial career, he's done very well so far with Ipswich (and Carrick thankfully seems to be turning Boro's form around) but he's a young coach, he's never even managed in a top league or European comp. He's led training alongside Carrick for us as a 1st team coach (a very good accolade on the CV) and now is impressing in the Championship. Let him do his thing.
Yeah it's this. It's clear these days that Manchester United listen in no small part to their online fan base. That vast army of twitter trolls, facebook warriors from various continents, Reddit nerds or the lunatics on the caf. That mob mentality becomes a cacophony of sound that eventually seems to filter through to the real world - in real life the United fanbase were fairly supportive of Harry Maguire for instance, it was mainly on tour he got booed, and somehow his name ended in Ghanian Parliament which seems fitting given how vitrolic the fanbase from there seem to be towards Harry himself. And it's almost like United get steered by that noise sometimes.
True that, he has to proof himself at the top level first Like Pep before he was appointed Barcelona and Arteta prior to joining Arsenal. Jose and LVG were hit with us because they had such track record. hhhmmm it never works like that. what matters is the conducive environment and supportive structure to be implemented first for any manager to succeed here. any top tier manager s capable to succeed at any level without have any experience at top level. Zidane, Pep,Jose are living examples
Putting Arteta in the same bracket as Pep and Jose almost made just put you on ignore straight off the bat.
- Jose you might want to do a quick google on, Pep and Zidane are very much outliers but both were in La Liga, a much less competitive and poorer (financially) league overall. In Pep's case he also coached a specific style and had an academy full of top talent who knew that style + senior players like Xavi already at the club also brought up on that style. At you have a United have no such thing.
- We have hired 3 coaches with elite level experience (LVG, Mou, ETH) and 3 without (Moyes, Ole, Ragnick). The 3 with top flight experience, for all their ills, have all won at least 1 cup.
- Name a top PL team that has done what you are suggesting?
- Finally on Arteta, since he joined Arsenal he's on what £500m, £600m spend? And what has he done? Won an FA cup and, kind of, been in a title race. He's finished 8th, 8th, 5th and 2nd.
Exactly, it’s crazy. You can’t work like that
Wait until they learn that the famed DOFs that have been successful at one given club have also been quite shite when working in other clubs
I can understand your frustrations to a certain extent as there seems to be an increasing amount of fans that does look to the next big thing. In both the terms of managers and players. The flavour of the month attitude to solving problems can be enticing but it’s generally a shorted lived solution.
I would argue that we have had some progress, getting rid of a lot of players that haven’t performed, bringing up young players and at times getting us playing good football. The main issue is a the good work has been undermined with other issues and a lack of consistency. Ten is responsible for some but not all of this for me.
I appreciate the acknowledgment of what was actually said and I’m for ever hopeful so am only sending good vibes to both Carrick and McKenna. I’ve kind of learned to tune out those that like to wail at walls. Can understand the frustrations sometimes, but generally disagree with their solutions.
Why do we never unearth top young coaches like this? This place is run by absolute clowns!
For argument sake if ETH is to leave the United job, who do you believe ideologically can take over from him?( it’s a leading question)
Hard question, I can’t think of anyone right now who is realistic and I’d want over ETH.
I guess the only real target we might go for is Flick as I think it’s clear Zidane isn’t that interested in England. Personally I think all things considered ETH is doing fine, form needs to ramp up and I think it will.
I also don’t watch anywhere near as much football as I used to so whilst I always hear good things about Rose and now Alonso, I really can’t say I’ve watched their teams outside of a few big games.
Now that is a learning I’d pay well to achieve for myself!
This is a joke aint it, hard to tell on here sometimes
Zidane and Ancelotti should not be considered as potential replacements for ETH. Their philosophies don't align with our current objectives.
What sets top clubs apart is their ability to smoothly transition between managers who continue the existing playstyle. Winning trophies doesn't guarantee success unless the new manager adheres to the established playing philosophy.
We shouldn't keep trying to reinvent our team building and structure. ETH's success at Ajax stemmed from his alignment with their philosophy, building on the foundation laid.
For coaches like McKenna or Carrick, the deciding factor should be their playing philosophy's compatibility with ours. Ole achieved similar results to Jose Mourinho with minimal squad changes due to his alignment with our philosophy.
Successful clubs maintain a consistent playing philosophy, sign players who fit the profile, and hire managers who understand and embrace that philosophy. Flick, Rose, and Alonso qualify not solely due to their trophy count but because they've demonstrated this alignment at their respective clubs.
I think there’s quite a big push to move away from Mou/Ole football though. Hence the madness this season. Issue with Alonso is he just has so little experience, the other two I agree on.
It will take a few seasons and full commitment by the fans as well. I understand the lack of experience conversation and do prefer coaches that have worked/played in a number of countries before getting big jobs.
I really like McKenna and he's done a cracking job so far at Ipswich. Having heard him speak in interviews, I wonder if he's not quite got the gravitas/charisma for the very top jobs. Maybe that isn't important but most of the very successful managers have had presence, authority and command respect through personality. He seems a top bloke but came across quite boring and stiff. Maybe that can change with experience and confidence.
The worst thing is we didnt even need to unearth him he popped out of the ground head first screaming "pick me up" and the glaziers never did. One love United hate glaziers.
@Cela shomana awaiting your reply
I’m still studying myself mate hahaha
McKenna is from the same tiny part of NI that I am from. There would have been a lot of talk about him as a youth player before he crossed the water to go to Spurs and it's a shame his playing career was ruined by injury. We'd have a few mutual friends and he was seemingly extremely bright and hard working at school. Was in his company during the summer when he was back home for a few days and on a night out with family. He comes across extremely level headed and I hope he goes right to the top of his profession.
Not sure it matters. ETH has the personality of a brick. Heh
Could have the same problems as Potter if he gets a top team in the PL.