How do you know he wanted to sign Vermaelen? And the jury is still out on Falcao.
No offence, but I'd still go with Van Gaal's judgment over yours. Unless, that is, your record in the transfer market is better than his?
Kevin Strootman
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No offence, but I'd still go with Van Gaal's judgment over yours. Unless, that is, your record in the transfer market is better than his?
Sign him in the summer. Having him around serves no benefit. And it's not like we'll face competition for his signature in the summer.
Those two were not coming off major injuries.
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What ? His form and quality have been overplayed ? I'm pretty sure you didn't watch Serie A matches with Roma and Strootman mate, infact scratch that - I'm 100 % sure you didn't watch even 5 of them, just going by the plain mislead content and opinion in the post. Most regular Serie A watchers (including myself) would put him in the same bracket or just a tad lower as Pjanic, Vidal, Pogba for last season and for good reason. BTW these are his stats from 2013/ 2014 - where he's almost as good as Vidal if not better and leads Pogba in every single important category :
It was the truth, not something to beat Moyes with. Fair enough, if you don't want to comply with the facts but using personal opinion isn't a good way of debating football. The Belgian lad has come in and done better than Strootman ? Not sure if serious to be fair...
Where does Anderson come in ? He didn't have an extensive injury history at Gremio and Porto. And the biggest concern with him over the years has been over a lack of motivation, allied with the move from his preferred position as an attacking midfielder. You could buy players with decent health records and turn them injury prone in a short window of time - as Shaw or Herrera can attest to.
More rubbish in the next part. Strootman is better than everyone bar peak Carrick and if I had to compare him to one Premier League midfielder it would be Matic. He's not as physically domineering but the rest of the style f play is eerily similar. Blind is a good little player, whom I've rated all along (you can read back to his transfer thread) but he's not remotely close to Strootman in terms of quality. If Daley was so good, Van Gaal would've plugged him in the midfield for Holland's World Cup campaign instead of chucking 4-3-3 (something he always used in qualifying) out of the window due to concerns over Strootman's injury.
The Last sentence is blatantly uneducated too. But I'm not gonna press further man in the face of more biased opinion. Yeah, Strootman's a lame duck, average, a perennial crock and not better than Marouane. Glad we could come to an agreement.
What ? His form and quality have been overplayed ? I'm pretty sure you didn't watch Serie A matches with Roma and Strootman mate, infact scratch that - I'm 100 % sure you didn't watch even 5 of them, just going by the plain mislead content and opinion in the post. Most regular Serie A watchers (including myself) would put him in the same bracket or just a tad lower as Pjanic, Vidal, Pogba for last season and for good reason. BTW these are his stats from 2013/ 2014 - where he's almost as good as Vidal if not better and leads Pogba in every single important category :
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Is that your standard way of debating stuff? Pretend the other person hasn't watched games? I've watched enough of him to form an opinion starting with the U21's last year to games I saw him play for Roma. He's nothing special and no better than what we have. Can't see those stats at work and couldn't care either to be honest. You only need a pair of eyes to know that Pogba is by far and away the better player and the better talent.
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It wasn't. Half the people on the Strootman thread spent the entire pre-season saying they didn't want him and how he was the Dutch Gareth Barry or whatever.Then, magically all of them changed their tune to him being one of the best young CM's in Europe. What a load of nonsense. Yeah, the Belgian guy is better and has been very good the few times I've caught Roma play.
Anderson had broken his leg before we signed him, just so you know. As I said, not worth the risk given he's nowhere near the top level of CM's.
More nonsense. Herrera was a key part of the team that finished in the top 4 in Spain and by all accounts was fantastic against the big teams. And while Bilbao are struggling without him, Roma seem to be doing alright without him or at least there's been no noticeable decline in their level. And even with Strootman injured Blind still didn't play CM. So does that mean Jonathan De Guzman is better than Blind? Stop talking shite. They had no proper LB and Blind as a LWB was just perfect.
Strootman is nowhere near Matic. Matic is fantastic defensively, Stootman isn't. Not even close there I'm afraid.
Yeah, biased, et's go with that.
Come on mate, you are seriously underrating him. Imo he's looks better than Blind and Fellaini on the basis of what I've seen of him (not much I'd admit). Tbf Strootman does tend to be overrated slightly on the basis of last season (hadn't seen much of him in the Eredevise) but it was a pretty great one tbh. I was really looking forward to see more of him at the WC to prove himself but the injury ruined that. I still have my apprehensions as to whether he can fully recover or not. I don't see any point in buying him in January unless its for a lesser value but LVG does tend to rate him very highly so you never know.
Last thing we need is an Aquilani scenario but I'm not ruling out a complete recovery, just think we should exercise reasonable caution in this potential transfer.
It won't be that hard for Van Gaal to find out about his current fitness levels and if he's on a good way to being the player he was we should definitely snap him up in January, it's not that he'd hold back any of our youngsters on that position, he'd do Fletcher's sub role until he's fit and then battle his way into the team against Fellaini and Herrera.
I don't see how it's a bad thing to sign him in January, provided he's going to be fit again and there's no big difference in the fee of course.
I don't see how it's a bad thing to sign him in January, provided he's going to be fit again and there's no big difference in the fee of course.
I'd sooner wait until the summer. Midfield is good enough to secure top four as is, we just need to strengthen defensively and we'll be fine.
No it isn't actually. But your assessment of Strootman's top class talent or lack there-of is so out of sync with reality that it's the only rational conclusion. I cannot fathom how a person who's watched him for an extended period of time can come to the conclusion that he isn't much cop. It's just baffling. The fact that you state that you aren't bothered to check the stats speak of an obtuse defense mechanism whereby you will offer some really obscure unfounded opinions and relentlessly push forward with the same when countered by actual facts.
Maybe those offering the opinions and comparing him to Barry hadn't watched him for an extended period ? Are we supposed to take their opinions to heart ? An overwhelming number of people were saying that Fabregas is primarily a #10 when we were going to sign him or that Blind was an average Dutch left-back. Should it color you judgement of the player as a consequence ? That just seems highly reactionary has to be said.
I reiterate the emphasis of 'extensive' in the previous post. And why are you predicating your assessment on Anderson ? Each individual is different and has varying rehabilitation schedules. As said before - unless you're privy to Strootman's prognosis what evidence can you offer to back up the opinion of calling him a crock ?
Do you recognize how illogical that sounds ? Bilbao also suffered a tumultous 2012/ 2013 campaign with Ander. Should that be factored into his performances too ? They did well last season without Javi Martinez and Llorente. Does that make those two any weaker ? It's just baffling analysis of the comparative situations of the two clubs and their circumstances. Bilbao has little depth in their squad to fill in for the hole left behind by Ander. Roma has Naingollan and Keita to fill in, who while not exactly world class (I'd argue Radja is an exceptional midfielder) are still adequate in terms of being stop gaps.
And Strootman's injury had no significant impact on Roma ? Are we sure about that ? Prior to his injury Roma had conceded just 11 goals in 27 matches, and then went on to concede 13 in 12, lost out to Juventus in the title and lost their last 3 Serie A fixtures. Despite Naingollan's rise to prominence there was a distinct lack of all round quality in Strootman's absence. Prime among them was Pjanic whose form also waned after Strootman's layoff.
Really weird opinion wrt the de Guzman analogy TBF :
This is how highly he rates Strootman. If Blind was as good, the big three would be a big four, and we'd have wrapped up his transfer from Ajax much quickly rather than leave it late as a backup incase others don't come to fruition.
Under : System.
"If you think back at the two selections I showed you, then you should have seen the name Strootman twice. And Strootman has played every single game. And what type of player is Strootman ? This is a midfield player who can bring balance to the midfield."
Under : Strootman's injury.
"Unfortunately there is no other Strootman. No other Strootman. So I am now racking my brain about a new system."
If this doesn't typify Van Gaal's assessment of him : a player so important to the team's balance that he has to restructure the system in his absence, then I dunno what else can be said in terms of his talent, both physical and mental, and his importance to the team.
See this is what can be termed as retrospective judgement. Matic wasn't popularly deemed one of the best defensive midfielders in the world at Benfica. If someone has said he'd be comparable to say Yaya Toure in the summer of 2012 or 2013 he'd be laughed at. It's only now that people are jumping onto the particular bandwagon. Strootman is just as talented, and younger and with a level of progression there is no reason why isn't as good or can't be as good.
There is no option but to go with that since you seem oblivious to/ are adamant on not appreciating Strootman's talent.
When you depend on Fellaini performances, your midfield is not good, enough. Whether Strootman is the right choice or not is an other question, but if we can sign a quality midfielder we should sign him this january.
I'd consider Schneiderlin too if not for Strootman. Has really improved in the last few seasons and offers a lot of similar qualities as one of my favorite central midfielders - Blaise Matuidi. Great workrate and pressing stamina, good technical ability and is immersed in Koeman's tactics - which are also derived from the Dutch school of football. Though long term, he might be more of a rotation player than first choice if we are to sign absolute top notch midfielders (Koke) to bolster the current complement.
Exactly this. We don't really have a squad spot for a rehabbing midfielder.
I can't say anything pertinent about him, i still don't understand what he is or how good he is.
Personally i would buy Strootman or Schneiderlin, this january, if possible.
Why Strootman or Schneiderlin though? They're different players for different roles and positions.
If I were to decide between them two though, I'd take Strootman, since I feel an upgrade (or another option) at CM is more required than another option at DM, which Schneiderlin would provide.
If I were to decide between Strootman and Koke, I'd take Koke (LVG probably wouldn't though), his passing and dynamism is just superb, especially for his young age.
Schneiderlin can play the defensive box to box role that's why.
They are different, Strootman can play in all the midfield configurations, but Schneiderlin can allow us play in 4231 with a very solid cover for players like Mata, Januzaj, Di Maria.
Good United and Arsenal sources were saying it at the time. I'm pretty sure that even Wenger confirmed we made a bid.
Oh, come of it with that nonsense. It's an opinion. The reality you speak of is your opinion, nothing more. I don't need stats to know Pogba is the better player. Is this the point where I accuse you of not watching Juventus? Right?
Maybe or maybe not. The initial point was Strootman's reputation grew as a way to have another dig at Moyes. Most even started to pretend Fellaini had always been shite and that last season was him playing at his level. Who said anything about that affecting my opinion of him?
I didn't. I pointed out Anderson and Hargreaves to you bringing up RVN. The point is signing him would be a risk after a major injury and he's not good enough to justify such a risk. Someone like Falcao is worth the risk, Strootman is not.
Herrera was better than Strootman last season and in a better league at that. And those Roma stats are skewed. Roma pretty much gave up after Juve won the title. In fact they lost their last 3 games of the season I think which says it all.
Given the alternative options Van Gaal had for Strootman, it's not too surprising he rated him for Netherlands.
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I couldn't care less how Matic was at Benfica since I never saw him. He's been fantastic for Chelsea though, Strootman is nowhere near that level. Maybe you should watch more of Chelsea eh?
Strootman is a good player, the same as Fellaini or Blind. I'm saying it as I am seeing it.
I don't expect us to play a 4-2-3-1, we'll play a 4-3-3 with one holding midfielder and to play Schneiderlin anywhere else but in that holding position would be a waste of money as we have other players to perform that more advanced roles.
I understand, but i said "I" and i don't know what Van Gaal will do in the future, these two players can make us better differently, in my opinion.
Get a load of this guy... Stop deviating from the primary point of discussion with endless heaps of tangential rubbish. Your main contention from the original posts was that Strootman is average and not an improvement over the likes of Fellaini. You don't need stats because it's doesn't conveniently suit you argument.
Not gonna bother with the rest of the post since I get a distinct feeling that no amount of statistics or argumentation will change you skewed outlook (to paraphrase - "I don't need stats", "Can't see those stats at work and couldn't care either to be honest", "I couldn't care less how Matic was at Benfica" and then you expect me to believe you've seen Strootman at Roma for a length of time). Pfft.
Agree with most of your posts regarding Strootman, not that I've seen him as much as you have, but the fact Van Gaal rates him so highly reassures me.I'd consider Schneiderlin too if not for Strootman. Has really improved in the last few seasons and offers a lot of similar qualities as one of my favorite central midfielders - Blaise Matuidi. Great workrate and pressing stamina, good technical ability and is immersed in Koeman's tactics - which are also derived from the Dutch school of football. Though long term, he might be more of a rotation player than first choice if we are to sign absolute top notch midfielders (Koke) to bolster the current complement.
And Matuidi is also one of my favourite midfielders, along with Schneiderlin, not surprised I agree with what you are saying!
What's funny about Matuidi is that he does in fact have good technique but looks so unelegant on the ball, it's quite fun to watch.
The fact that you think Strootman is as good or better than Pogba and Matic tells me all I need to know. I think you need to watch some Juve or CHelsea games before sputing utter drivel.
Not sure why we would want him now. We have Carrick and Blind in that role, I'd much rather get a high energy pacey midfielder.
I don't think I've ever seen Invictus spout drivel, so err .. maybe look at your own opinions instead.
The fact that you think Strootman is as good or better than Pogba and Matic tells me all I need to know. I think you need to watch some Juve or CHelsea games before sputing utter drivel.
Sorry, Pogba is miles better. It's not even close. Maybe invictius should start watching some Juve games for a change
That's not exactly what he's saying though, is it?
Hes not exactly a DM, and he'd more be replacing Fellaini.
Great post. Plus 1
We don't depend on Fellaini though, he's just a squad player. That's fine for a team looking for a CL place. Obviously it could be better but we can only change so much in January and there are other areas in more need of strengthening.
He'd be competing with Herrera/Fellaini rather than Carrick/Blind, I think.
So, what was the point in bringing up how Strootman's stats are much better than Pogba's?
And of course saying he's as good as Matic is even worse which makes me question if he's actually watched Matic. Aside from being two tall left footed players they are completely different in what they bring to the team.
You probably think about the defense but for me our main problems are still in midfield, you can have the best defenders in the world, if your midfield can't deal with anything, you are useless.
And like you said we have a starting midfield who contains a squad player.
This, a number 8 that plays the box to box support role and a second choice left back even if it is a loan so we can go four at the back against more threatening opposition even if Shaw is unavailable.
With that in January anything is possible, especially Strootman since he already understands the philosophy.
I'm not sure about that at present.
He's not saying he's as good as Matic, he's saying that he could be. That's pretty clear from the fact he points out Matic wasn't rated as highly when at Benfica (which is true) and just saying that there's no reason to believe Strootman couldn't follow the same trajectory (i.e. not being rated as highly when playing for a non PL based team).
@akash02
Mate you can keep repeating that Pogba is miles better. But on the evidence of last season he really wasn't. Pogba is a brilliant talent, no doubt, many United supporters would give their left nut to bring him back. But Strootman is no scrub himself and could develop in a star. Could Pogba develop further and overtake him in the near future. Sure, infact I'd bet on Pogba being the better player long term given that he's 3 years younger. But right now (or rather when Strootman was fit and playing in the same league) Strootman edged him in almost every measurable characteristic.
A newbie member wants to bring up further statistics to support the claim :
As for the Matic part, he is evidence to the fact that players from outside the top leagues often go unappreciated, like Strootman was a PSV and to a lesser extent Roma. Strootman is about one year older than Matic when he was let go from Chelsea so he has plenty of time to develop into a much better player. We might not get the absolute finished product, but he has more potential in those developmental terms.
Mate you can keep repeating that Pogba is miles better. But on the evidence of last season he really wasn't. Pogba is a brilliant talent, no doubt, many United supporters would give their left nut to bring him back. But Strootman is no scrub himself and could develop in a star. Could Pogba develop further and overtake him in the near future. Sure, infact I'd bet on Pogba being the better player long term given that he's 3 years younger. But right now (or rather when Strootman was fit and playing in the same league) Strootman edged him in almost every measurable characteristic.
A newbie member wants to bring up further statistics to support the claim :
That aakash002 guy is talking loads of rubbish about Strrotman.
Infact here is comparison between 4 midfielders he mentioned & said Strootman is not even good enough like them. As you can see only Matic does better than Stroot in a couple of Defensive departments & even in those Strootman is not far off
As for the Matic part, he is evidence to the fact that players from outside the top leagues often go unappreciated, like Strootman was a PSV and to a lesser extent Roma. Strootman is about one year older than Matic when he was let go from Chelsea so he has plenty of time to develop into a much better player. We might not get the absolute finished product, but he has more potential in those developmental terms.
Because Pogba's seen to be one of the best midfielders in Serie A yet the stats, as well as accounts off those who watched him, say that Strootman had a similar if not better season. And yet you say he's not better then Fellaini, which is nonsense.
I watched Strootman a lot the year before last when he was in Eredeviese and at the U21 Euro's, and although I don't think I was that impressed with him at PSV he was good in the Euro's and showed whtat he can offer. Then when he went to Roma he was great, and was one of Roma's better players along with Pjanic as well as Gervinho.
As for the Matic comparison, I think he's used Matic as an example of a player who's stock has risen since joining the PL. Matic's performances this year haven't been much better, if any better really than those he made in his last 18 months at Benfica.
@Invictus I'm watching struggle with that poster for hours, just don't bother.
He hasn't seen Pogba, Strootman or Matic play that much, he is like me with Carvalho or Ramires.
He hasn't seen Pogba, Strootman or Matic play that much, he is like me with Carvalho or Ramires.
I'll respond when I get home as I can't see any of those stats but stats can't account for the drive Pogba brings to Juve that Strootman quite simply doesn't. The stats don't account for how Pogba can create space for those around him with his runs through midfield.
Like I said, I never watched Matic at Benfica so my opinion is solely from watching him play for Chelsea. Not everyone is blinded up the team a player plays for. I don't see it with Strootman. Not a bad player but wouldn't improve our midfield and for 30m (or whatever it takes to sign hm) you would hope he would improve our midfield.
You could at least quote me if you're going to talk shite.
Like I said, I never watched Matic at Benfica so my opinion is solely from watching him play for Chelsea. Not everyone is blinded up the team a player plays for. I don't see it with Strootman. Not a bad player but wouldn't improve our midfield and for 30m (or whatever it takes to sign hm) you would hope he would improve our midfield.
You could at least quote me if you're going to talk shite.
Not sure why people keep bringing up this point. Strootman playing for Roma has no affect on me rating or not rating him. At this point in time Strootman is not at Matic's level. He's also a very different player to Matic.
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