Mourinho certainly had the clout at Chelsea to put his foot down and keep a player he wanted. He just didn't rate him that highly.
Kevin De Bruyne
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
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Mourinho certainly had the clout at Chelsea to put his foot down and keep a player he wanted. He just didn't rate him that highly.
Last season he played on the right and was great but Pep's decision to play him in the middle as a no.10 and with Silva deeper behind him seems to have brought out the best in him.
His role in both was fairly limited, especially in the Euro's. Pogba is class, but I think some dont realise he wasnt Juve best or most important player. Marchisio, Pirlo, Vidal have all been significantly more important and better than he was. He is a superb player when he is at it, but not near the level de Bruyne's reached, when he was the best player in a league with players like Reus, Aubameyang, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Boateng, Neuer etc.
Yeah, KDB wasn't the best player in Bundesliga. That's a major hyperbole.
Didn't he win their player of the year award?
Pogba was great last season without Pirlo or Vidal and Marchisio has not been better than Pogba for a long time.
Great? He had an excellent 2nd half of the season and finally made that step up, the 1st half of the season he was out of form and faced an injury. But the season the Bruyne had, making Wolfsburg one of the best team in Germany and the EL, I dont think Pogba reached that level over such a long period (a season) of time yet.
Funny that he won it then, breaking the highest assists record.
On form he was in that discussion.
The level of KdB for Wolfsburg in 14/15 was insane and up there with the very best individual performances, that I have ever seen over the course of a season. His quality was never in doubt. I wasn´t sure about his mentality (star of the team vs. one of many) and his ability to play with Silva. Both things don´t seem to be a problem.
It is definitely not major hyperbole to say that he was the best player in the Bundesliga. He was certainly up there.
No, just no. Nowhere near, in fact he found himself in bench when all three of Pogba, Vidal and Pirlo were available.
Vidal and Pirlo were more important than him, as was Tevez.
And Chygrynskiy, I'm sure if you look at his Barcelona signings they be more flops then hits.Tell that to Zlatan
KDB has almost been unplayable this season, if he stays injury free this season good luck trying to stop city winning the league by 7+ points
I like how many are completely misquoting Pep......or at least misinterpreting what he said. Loads are claiming he said he's second best in the world, from what I read on the quotes, he seems to feel Messi is clearly in a world of a his own, but KDB is in the group behind him, he didn't even hint at him being at the top of that group.
By the way, I agree with him. Seems like someone who just genuinely enjoys playing, you know, like Messi, and I hate seeing him in blue. He also just seems exceptionally normal, I mean he looks absolutely knackered by the time he's walked to the team photo for some odd reason.
By the way, I agree with him. Seems like someone who just genuinely enjoys playing, you know, like Messi, and I hate seeing him in blue. He also just seems exceptionally normal, I mean he looks absolutely knackered by the time he's walked to the team photo for some odd reason.
There is. It's huge. Both in terms of ability and mentality.
Oh believe me, he was.
I take your word for it. You certainly know better. Statistically their best seasons in the Bundesliga seem comparable but this is a very limited way to judge players.
De Bruyne 14/15 was ridicilous. A goal/assist almost every game. (10 goals / 20 assists)
There isn't a huge difference, at all, kdb is a better shooter and final passer, micki is quicker, a better dribbler and more agile. To claim there is a mammouth gulf is misleading.
I guess that Balu knows their game much better than fans based in England though. I was in Germany when both played there but didn't watch them enough.
balu is wrong though, amusingly so. I suspect it's agenda driven.
What agenda could that be? I'm certainly not known for downplaying the quality of former Dortmund players on here? If anything it's the opposite really. And I initially did rate Mkhitaryan quite a bit, but his 3 years at Dortmund have shown quite clearly that he truely avoids taken over responsibility, never excels when his team is struggling and he has to lead it and even at his best run his performances were always based on team efforts and he looked somewhat replaceable.
De Bruyne's impact at Wolfsburg was on a totally different level, in terms of individual ability, leadership. There's no way that Mkhitaryan could ever be as productive as him in a team where he has to be the main man. He's just not talented enough to deal with the pressure of being the focal point of his own team and the opposing defenders.
t his best he's a wonderful asset to have as a role player, somewhat similar to Willian in Mourinho's Chelsea side the last years, probably an upgrade on him.
Neither is an effective dribbler. Not sure about Mkhi's agility either. Mkhi is quicker, but that's nowhere near as important as the big difference in terms of passing, creativity, shooting and general technique. De Bruyne is a superstar, who'll stand out at top teams. Mkhi is a wonderful teamplayer who had an exceptional season in terms of productivity in a well oiled machine that used him perfectly. It's a huge difference.
No he is not. I doubt that there is a single Dortmund fan who wouldn´t agree with him. KdB run Wolfsburgs attack on his own. Mkhitaryan, who is a great player on his own, never did anything like that at all. KdB´s 14/15 performance is up there with the best individual league performances in the last 25 years. Mkhitaryan is a very good an likeable player, but he never played on this level. It is not even close and nobody who watched the Bundesliga without crazy bias would suggest anything else.
Zlatan did have 29 goals/assists in 36 starts for Barcelona, a very good return, he just didn't suit the style and was a strange signing from the outset as much as I love Zlatan. His year wasn't exactly a poor one in productivity terms, that's whilst not being the main free kick and penalty taker.Tell that to Zlatan
08-09 - Keita, Pique, Pinto, Alves and Hleb were hits. Caceres and Henrique were flops;
09-10 - Maxwell hit. Zlatan, Keirrison and Chygrynskiy flops. At least was only a 10m euro loss for the later. If Eto'o wasn't part of the Zlatan deal I wouldn't regard it as a flop because Milan paid a good fee back for Zlatan, but the deal was very expensive;
10-11 - Villa, Mascherano, Adriano hits. Don't regard Affelay a hit or a fail personally;
11-12 - Sanchez hit and Fabregas a flop(some won't regard it as a flop on the whole)
Out of the seventeen signings Pep made at Barcelona, only 6 were flops to me.
I rate Mkhitaryan very highly but KDB is a level above.
I will take your word and other Bundesliga loyalists. Didn't realize he won the player of the year award that season. I do believe he is a class talent but to say Pogba is a level below him is also not true. Both different players and both brilliant youngsters. This is KDB in his second season while Pogba is in his first few games in a team which is yet to really gel together. Thus the difference is pronounced the first few games.
I think the main difference when judging their best seasons in the bundesliga is that Mkhitaryan was probably the best player in a team full of flair, movement, and attacking power. Everyone in Dortmund's offense could make something happen really. De Bruyne on the other hand basically WAS Wolfsburg's offense. He was their flair, their spark, their ingenuity and the difference between them becoming 2nd in the league and winning the cup, and then not even qualifying for the Europa the year after he had left.
He was in his last season here. Robben was up there too but he missed the business end of the season injured so it's fair to give it to de Bruyne.
That list's a load of shite tbf.
In what fecking universe was Hleb a hit at Barca? He lasted a single season and played about 20 games before being fecked off. Pinto was a backup keeper so can hardly be described as a hit.
Maxwell was pretty much just backup too, only really getting game time due to Abidal's absence from the side. He lasted two and half years there before being carted off at a loss to PSG.
Apart from his debut season which was only okay by his standards, Villa was hardly a hit. Adriano was only ever backup so he can't really count as a hit. Then you've got Afellay who's ended up at fecking Stoke, so he wasn't exactly a hit.
Even Sanchez is pushing it a bit as a hit. If he was that much of a hit he wouldn't have been replaced, but I'll let you off that one.
With a revised list I make it 5 "hits" at best, with 12 or 13 flops depending on how kind you're being about Sanchez.
Horrible post and god knows where to start.
Hleb - He was signed as a back up for around £12m, made 36 appearances in the season Barcelona won the treble. Done the job asked of him in that season. Maybe a hit is pushing it, but I don't see him as a flop.
Pinto - He was signed for 500K euros and as a back-up, he was first choice in cups that Barca won, he was clearly a hit in the role he was signed for.
Maxwell - Are you seriously suggesting someone who was signed for 5 million euros, was sold for 3.5m and made 89 appearances(78 starts) is a flop? He was a great signing. Think you need to go and learn about 'squad signings'
Villa - A flop? A guy who scored 48 goals, made many assists, won 7 trophies. Scored in a CL final, whilst not being the main penalty and free kick taker was not a hit? Seriously?
Adriano - See Maxwell
Sanchez - Let me off with Sanchez? Are you trolling? Nobody surely can say Sanchez was not a hit or was a flop...
Affelay - Was signed for a small fee, played his part as a squad player in a successful first season, got loan fees from him. Not a flop for me, don't care that he plays for Stoke his period at Barca is all that matters!
5 hits, oh dear indeed.
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Horrible post and god knows where to start.
Hleb - He was signed as a back up for around £12m, made 36 appearances in the season Barcelona won the treble. Done the job asked of him in that season. Maybe a hit is pushing it, but I don't see him as a flop.
Maxwell - Are you seriously suggesting someone who was signed for 5 million euros, was sold for 3.5m and made 89 appearances(78 starts) is a flop? He was a great signing. Think you need to go and learn about 'squad signings'
Villa - A flop? A guy who scored 48 goals, made many assists, won 7 trophies. Scored in a CL final, whilst not being the main penalty and free kick taker was not a hit? Seriously?
Adriano - See Maxwell
Sanchez - Let me off with Sanchez? Are you trolling? Nobody surely can say Sanchez was not a hit or was a flop...
Affelay - Was signed for a small fee, played his part as a squad player in a successful first season, got loan fees from him. Not a flop for me, don't care that he plays for Stoke his period at Barca is all that matters!
5 hits, oh dear indeed.
TBF he didn't label them "flops", simply stated they weren't hits.
But he did as shown by this final sentence.
'With a revised list I make it 5 "hits" at best, with 12 or 13 flops depending on how kind you're being about Sanchez'
Saying Villa was "hardly a hit" is nonsense though, insane nonsense.
We'll revise it again then, 5 hits at best with the remaining 12-13 being utter flops or placeholder squad players
All of that has a lot to do with Kevin de Bruyne.
He had 3 seasons at Barca, scoring 23 in 52 appearances in his first, 9 in 24 in his second, and 16 in 43 in his third. At Valencia he scored 28 in 45, 31 in 43, and 22 in 41 in the 3 seasons prior to signing for Barca. During his first season at Barca, Messi scored 20 more goals in the same number of starts and just 3 fewer appearances, and Pedro 1 fewer in 8 fewer starts and 1 more appearance. He was injured for much of his second season, then in his third and final season, he wasn't the same and was largely used off the bench.
So in the one season he was actually part of the first XI, his goalscoring was below the level he'd set himself at Valencia, and in fact, lower than Pedro's. He was good, but by his and Barcelona's standards, he didn't show enough to warrant the 40 Million Euros they spent on him. Particularly not when they got like 5 Million for him three seasons later.
Pogba may have potential to be at that level but he has yet to deliver with any kind of consistency at the level de bruyne has.
Pogba is a star talent. De bruyne is an absolute star.
Thats true.
I disagree. Pogba has struggled in the PL for 4 games but that does not discount his exploits before he joined here.
His exploits still do not put him at the level of De Bruyne. He's been hyped prematurely into being a world class player. Talent is there, but he is not quite there yet.
We can agree to disagree then. Pogba was Juve's midfield talisman last season.
Have you watched Pogba much for Juventus and France?