Look I personally think it's extremely cool that the Food Standards Agency will be able to authorise rape and that Labour isn't opposing that. That's the kind of sensible opposition I wanted.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Mr.Starmer is just another manufactured politician with an outdated ideology drummed into him by his parents. Where else does this stuff work? Doesn’t even work in the home of the left wing, well either home of the left wing, Russia or China. He always looks like a rabbit in the headlights of the media to me and is not a convincing opponent for Boris. Boris is such an easy target and Starmer misses every time. The bad news then is the Tories May be in for sometime.
I’ve actually noticed more mainstream centrist commentators pushing increasingly sceptical tones about Starmer’s strategy of barely criticising or opposing government policies recently, including on this most recent bill. With there rumoured to be plans to savagely cut benefits, can anyone see Starmer having the backbone or principles to forcefully oppose and denounce it? I’d be surprised myself.
His polling is great, is the best Labour polling since Boris became PM, and matches Labour polling between the 2017 election and (roughly) the 2019 EU election.
And the gammons moan about having to wear a mask when they go shopping. Freedom indeed.
The one area that i thought Labour might be able to weaponise was climate change action but it looks like Boris is coming out with an actual plan. We've only heard generic soundbites from Starmer so far.
Doesn't poll well in the Red Wall, so it's not a priority
Didn't realise Chuka Umunna is now a financial PR.
With Covid, Brexit, massive national debt, the NHS, housing issues etc...climate change is way down the priority list for many working class voters. Focusing on that will make Labour look out of touch with the working class majority's actual worries.
Global warming has promised to stop for 4 years whilst Sir Keith works out what his policy on it is.
That post just makes me depressed for so many reasons.
I'm fairly sure the working class like jobs though even if they are Green.
It is depressing and I say that as someone who has done some work on ESG investing, including helping highlight bad practice. I just think Labour needs to focus on real fundamentals in the next election and not major on green issues- filter them in later. There is a core of voters who are passionate about environmental issues, but I've seen first-hand at various major publishers in different countries, the difficulties in getting interest in the subject. I just really don't think it will be the vote winner you think it will- it will just preach to the converted.
He just doesn't hate Notherners enough really.
I'm not really sure what your point here is. It's literally why Labour under Starmer aren't prioritising climate change. If you think that's good because low information voters in the North don't care about it, fine.
That's the trouble with your red wall, they're just so low information.
He is just a tory in the labour party. I don't think even Blair would allow license to kill? I may be wrong. It's a fecking disgrace.
Listen Foxbatt if that's even your real name, if you're not from the red wall then your opinion doesn't matter. I think that's how it works anyway.
So you think Brexit was a good decision driven by well informed voters?
Edit: I think this discussion isn't going to go anywhere. I think the major opposition party should be standing up for as radical action on climate change as possible. I will say that the idea we can stop catastrophic climate change is pretty deluded given the global situation, and that perhaps more focus should be on adaptation. But even if that pessimistic take is correct we still need to get to net zero asap. I don't really have any time for arguments that disagree with that on the basis that it doesn't appeal to Stoke on Trent.
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I think the far left have an obsession with categorising and labelling people instead of treating them as individuals, and have a particular hatred for the old, northerners, and the working class. How they ever expect to gain their votes when their contempt is so obvious is beyond me.
As for Brexit, I voted for a party with a Remain leader, that campaigned against Brexit in every election, and voted consistently against Brexit in parliament. As such a well-informed voter, did you?
You didn't highlight 'How they ever expect to gain their votes when their contempt is so obvious is beyond me.' Not surprising, I'm pretty sure it's beyond you as well.
Stop grouping people together you weirdos or group A, B, C and D won't vote for you.
Strong and stable opposition.
I tend to agree. This strategy of no opposition, even against some very damaging legislation is getting ridiculous.
Choose your battles, yes. But at least choose the important ones.
I don't think any of that is true. I just think that the Labour Party should be trying to lead on an issue like climate change. If the argument is that it's an issue of low salience to those voters like @Jippy says, then the conclusion isn't 'Labour shouldn't be radical on it' – it means Labour can be radical on it without it deciding those peoples' votes. You just have to make sure you communicate the issues they do care about just as loudly and clearly.
And apologies for the double post, but it's also ironic that Starmer who was advocating a position on Brexit that treated the votes of those people with contempt is now justifying, for example, failing to oppose the Gambling Commission being able to permit torture on the basis that Labour needs to appeal to the concerns of those same voters (in this case on national security).
Disappointing in a way as i don't want the party relying on high wealth donors. I can understand why they've done this though.
I always thought Starmer a Tory when he was in charge of Crown Prosecution. I guess the Labour Party needs real leaders to get back from the brink. Why is it that good people do not come out? We had Blair who won but got involved in an illegal war, Brown who lost it and then Ed and Jeremy who never made the cut and now Starmer who is sinking the ship. All with ridiculous opponents like Cameron, May and BoJo.
On the contrary, it's fantastic. Let him rent his sorry abstaining party's arse out for the world to see.
I disagree. If Labour make climate change a central plank of policy, I think it will turn off parts of the electorate.
i'm not saying ignore it, just don't make it front and centre. For me, they should focus on fewer core messages and then build out from there.
You seem to think 'being radical' on climate change is a free hit. In reality the radical change needed will probably require tax hikes and a fundamental overhaul of power generation, transport and infrastructure. All very expensive with a slow pay-off period.
#ResignStarmer.
Seriously who the hell would actually replace him who'd have a hope in hell of winning next election (or at least cutting the gap significantly). People won't be voting en masse for Rebecca Long Bailey that's for sure.
Seriously who the hell would actually replace him who'd have a hope in hell of winning next election (or at least cutting the gap significantly). People won't be voting en masse for Rebecca Long Bailey that's for sure.
It has to be done at some point though. I'm a real climate pessimist – I think we'll be comfortably past 2º of warming by 2050 and who knows what that world looks like. But unless we (as a species) are literally going to make large scale civilisation impossible, we need to stop emitting more CO2 by the middle of this century, and it can't keep being kicked on to the next election cycle. If Labour doesn't want to make that argument then they are going to find their vote share eroded by from the other direction by the Greens.
Any other leader would be 15-20 points ahead.#ResignStarmer.
Seriously who the hell would actually replace him who'd have a hope in hell of winning next election (or at least cutting the gap significantly). People won't be voting en masse for Rebecca Long Bailey that's for sure.
At least that was the line a few months back, might have gone up to 25 by now.
The problem with Starmer's abstention is that if it's a tactic then it's a bad one. You can't suddenly oppose measures you clearly didn't oppose at the time just because you have a healthy lead in the polls. There's nothing to suggest that Starmer is abstaining for any reason other than he agrees with the Tories' course of action but doesn't want to give them a win by voting for. Or if he's abstaining because he doesn't want to devalue the currency of opposition by constantly opposing government measures, then it's fair to ask what government policies are worth opposing? If this is what a Starmer government would look like then an opposition that can't win, like Corbyn was to many people, is a better idea because at least it actually opposes.#ResignStarmer.
Seriously who the hell would actually replace him who'd have a hope in hell of winning next election (or at least cutting the gap significantly). People won't be voting en masse for Rebecca Long Bailey that's for sure.
Really, Jess Phillips? Emily Thornberry? Burgon?!! (can't really think of any serious male candidates as Jon Ashworth dosen't seem to be landing many punches on Hancock who will be sacrifical lamb post Covid).
Do like Angela Rayner though, thought she was pretty good against Johnson at PMQs the other week. Will be a serious contender post 2025 if Labour are still 50-100 seats off.
No I understand that but he's probably keeping his powder dry for the winter which can quickly go south as we're seeing with all the new infections or even the inquiry although that will probably be endlessly delayed/jusy blamed on Vallance/Whitty/Sage in the end.
He did raise a voice in the summer against not going into lockdown faster but you just got Johnson and the press playing the negative angle for a week or two.
Election is still four years off and I think he's calculating Johnson will step away in next 18 months anyway for combination of reasons.
Ultimately the electorial arthimetic remains against Labour going into 2025 whatever the strategy but Covid balances things out much more as job losses will probably still be hurting into early 2022 and election won't be far off by then.