Yea, the statement Keir put out is pretty ridiculous:
He's also trying to distance himself from what he said the other day - (community note showing at time of posting):
We need a 'Sir Michael Take' twitter account for ol' Keir.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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Yea, the statement Keir put out is pretty ridiculous:
He's also trying to distance himself from what he said the other day - (community note showing at time of posting):
We need a 'Sir Michael Take' twitter account for ol' Keir.
Last week I had a dream about Steve Coogan tricking Starmer into getting handcuffed to a protestor. So, I'm not sure what that adds to the conversation.
Back on topic, yeah, he's bang on.
He’d definitely need tricked to even get him in the same vicinity of a protestor
And the beat goes on.
This is juicy - below was developed at a hackathon last weekend:
What did he misrepresent about the visit?
What's controversial about David Lammy visiting Israel in 2022?
What's controversial about David Lammy visiting Israel in 2022?
He misrepresented the visit - read the statement from the mosque & imam (it’s on this page I think).
On your second point - it’s providing more transparency to Labour voters on what their MPs are doing and more specifically where they stand on the Palestine / Israel issue.
Well they've copied and pasted most of the Tory's policies so maybe they thought no-one would notice?
That Muslim census survey is pretty worthless to be honest
It's a survey and not from aggregated polling or anything like that, it's an online one that anyone can just sign up to and claim to be a Muslim. You can also easily fill out the survey over and over with different email addresses. It might as well just be a twitter poll.
I'm sure Labours polling with Muslim voters has dropped in the last few days but not by 70% or whatever it is they're claiming. I wish there was proper aggregated polling done with Muslim voters though, would be interesting to see where things stand. Labour definitely can't just assume on their votes.
It's a survey and not from aggregated polling or anything like that, it's an online one that anyone can just sign up to and claim to be a Muslim. You can also easily fill out the survey over and over with different email addresses. It might as well just be a twitter poll.
I'm sure Labours polling with Muslim voters has dropped in the last few days but not by 70% or whatever it is they're claiming. I wish there was proper aggregated polling done with Muslim voters though, would be interesting to see where things stand. Labour definitely can't just assume on their votes.
The other question to ask is how the repercussions of losing the Muslim vote would translate to seats gained/lost in the election. My gut feeling is it wouldn't have too much bearing, and I suspected Starmer and his team had analysed this prior to him doubling down on backing Israel.
At best you might get the odd upset like Bethnal Green and Bow in 2005 in response to the Iraq war, but I doubt there'd be seismic implications nationwide. Constituencies with a considerable Muslim demographic tend to be mostly safe Labour seats anyhow.
Agreed yeah.
Maybe in two or three seats it would cause an issue but the national swing to Labour would almost certainly cover that anyway. Still would be interesting to see proper polling down on it though I think.
Starmer will be buzzing about the Muslim poll. Lee Harpin accidentally let the cat out of the bag last week by revealing the hangers-on around the leader consider them 'fleas' to be 'shaken off'.
Labour cannot assume on any votes.
Starmer is well aware of the pitfalls/mistakes that Labour has made in the past; the days of 'weighing' rather than counting the labour vote has all but disappeared, some of the few constituencies left where this still applies will be where there is a large Muslim vote.
However, conflating religious belief/faith, with politics is not an ideal construct and often does not always play out. Those of the Catholic faith were nearly always associated/or believed to be sympathetic to the IRA in NI. I suspect however that most Catholics across Britain (and in Ireland) as a whole did not support the IRA methods, or indeed necessarily all their objectives, although they had sympathy with fellow Catholics who were suspected of being targeted/hounded/killed, because of their faith.
I suspect many Muslim's have a similar approach to what is happening to fellow Muslims in Gaza and this is reflected in their questions to Starmer, but it does not follow that they would necessarily change their voting intentions in the UK, if Starmer retains his public stance.... ?
It’s useful as a finger on the pulse survey following the conflict in Palestine and Keir’s comments.
I also can’t imagine anyone making multiple emails to game the survey either, but who knows.
Well just speaking for myself, he has lost my vote due to his stance on this, and the vote of a few others in my circle who are labour leaning. Which is a shame because despite being a bit boring, I've often championed him against a lot of people I know who say he doesn't offer anything. A man who says the things he's said on this clearly is no principled man and will just do whatever the people behind the scenes tell him to do.
The problem is of course who else to vote for. The Lib Dems are no better - Ed Davey had the exact same stance of 'Israel has a right to defend itself' that's been pushed out to pretty much most UK politicians. I haven't checked out the Greens, but the first past the post system gives them no hope of doing anything. So possibly just leads to another abstain, from me.
The problem is of course who else to vote for. The Lib Dems are no better - Ed Davey had the exact same stance of 'Israel has a right to defend itself' that's been pushed out to pretty much most UK politicians. I haven't checked out the Greens, but the first past the post system gives them no hope of doing anything. So possibly just leads to another abstain, from me.
Pretty much where I'm at too. I even voted for him in the Labour leadership election.
And before anyone leaps at me saying I'm playing into the Tory's hands - at this point I don't really care, call it irrational but the last 5 years of Politics have sapped any enthusiasm I have in taking part in the democratic process. Especially with our current electoral system that dooms us to being a two party state, or 1.5 party state considering Starmer's Tory Houdini act.
I think I’m in the same boat and it seems the UK Muslim population are too. I’m secretly hoping Jezza runs as an independent.
Why abstain? Even if it won't shift the dial significantly, a vote for the greens still counts.
Are you in Islington? Last I heard he was planning to defend his seat as an Indie.
I may be in the minority here, but I find it really bizzare that a politicians stance on a foreign affairs matter is more important to some voters than local and national policy.
No i’m south of the river, but if that’s true it’s good to know.
Why is that tough to fathom? Your taxes are also contributing to military and diplomatic initiatives. I personally find it bizarre that voters are able to disconnect them instead of judging a party or candidate by their total package.
It's really not useful at all. It shows there are some people very angry at this but not how many really and certainly not that they are actual muslims. There were people on twitter saying they signed up multiple times to vote on the survey, including actual polling experts like Rob Ford and Ben Walker who wanted to test it.
Like I said though , a proper weighted polling of actual Muslims would be very interesting. Hopefully something like that happens, maybe this will spark that into happening.
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I'm either not going to vote or will vote for the Greens or the SWP if they field a candidate.
I'm sick of endorsing "least bad" choices.
Because it is not as nearly as important as internal policy, and we don't have to pretend otherwise.
Its on the voter to decide ultimately, but to simply discount foreign and diplomatic policy when making a decision at the ballot box isn't the sort of disconnect I'm able to contend with. I could never vote for a Blairite Labour after his war push led to a million dead Iraqis, regardless of whether or not his domestic policies were more favourable than the alternative.
These are his tweets on the visit. I assume there is no claim that the photographs have been doctored and the content of the tweets doesn't seem to attribute anything to the mosque. He took questions and was grateful to hear from the Muslim community. The statement from the mosque doesn't mention being misrepresented? They may regret the publicity that followed, but that's not a misrepresentation.
David Lammy visited in 2022 and it was reported on at the time https://www.thejc.com/news/politics...it-to-israel-last-week-1P4UaVlRL9JY49cRPn6B1t it just wasn't big news and wasn't publicised in advance for photo opportunities. During the visit he was met with the Israeli Labour Party, Meretz, the Palestinian Prime Minister and civil groups as well as visiting Jordan. Abdul-Rahman talks about conflicts of interest without illustrating any.
So why are you hoping that Corbyn runs as an independent?
People want Corbyn to run as leader of a new independent party?
What would that achieve ?
What would that achieve ?
I can understand the disillusionment and I'm sure most can in this thread at least.
I haven't got round to registering for an overseas vote now since moving two years ago.
I probably will and vote for Andy Slaughter, who's a very good local MP, who can vote for as an individual happily. His majority is big so can't see him losing whatever.
Hopefully prevent Rachel Reeves from living out her dream of being tougher than the Tories on welfare and not wanting to be seen to represent anyone in receipt of benefits.
Most muslims I've met have sworn never to vote Labour again. As far as many see it, starmer had a choice and he's chosen to support wholeheartedly the muslim killing fascists. There's also the sense that even though there's a far bigger muslim constituency within labour, there isn't anywhere like the blowback from within that corbyn was on the end of to support / protect jewish / Israeli interests. Many of the senior voices in the Labour Party who were very loud, to the point of campaiging against labour not that long ago, on stopping hatred have gone very quiet and when it comes to muslim victims and Islamaphobia.
Stopping anyone from attending the palestine marches whilst senior MPs are attending israeli events was the last straw for many.
Stopping anyone from attending the palestine marches whilst senior MPs are attending israeli events was the last straw for many.