Dobba
Full Member
The liar has been at it again.
The liar has been at it again.
He’d definitely need tricked to even get him in the same vicinity of a protestorLast week I had a dream about Steve Coogan tricking Starmer into getting handcuffed to a protestor. So, I'm not sure what that adds to the conversation.
Back on topic, yeah, he's bang on.
He misrepresented the visit - read the statement from the mosque & imam (it’s on this page I think).What did he misrepresent about the visit?
What's controversial about David Lammy visiting Israel in 2022?
I misread that as Tolkienesque. I could imagine Starmer in Farmer Maggots crop.
The other question to ask is how the repercussions of losing the Muslim vote would translate to seats gained/lost in the election. My gut feeling is it wouldn't have too much bearing, and I suspected Starmer and his team had analysed this prior to him doubling down on backing Israel.That Muslim census survey is pretty worthless to be honest
It's a survey and not from aggregated polling or anything like that, it's an online one that anyone can just sign up to and claim to be a Muslim. You can also easily fill out the survey over and over with different email addresses. It might as well just be a twitter poll.
I'm sure Labours polling with Muslim voters has dropped in the last few days but not by 70% or whatever it is they're claiming. I wish there was proper aggregated polling done with Muslim voters though, would be interesting to see where things stand. Labour definitely can't just assume on their votes.
The other question to ask is how the repercussions of losing the Muslim vote would translate to seats gained/lost in the election. My gut feeling is it wouldn't have too much bearing, and I suspected Starmer and his team had analysed this prior to him doubling down on backing Israel.
At best you might get the odd upset like Bethnal Green and Bow in 2005 in response to the Iraq war, but I doubt there'd be seismic implications nationwide. Constituencies with a considerable Muslim demographic tend to be mostly safe Labour seats anyhow.
That Muslim census survey is pretty worthless to be honest
It's a survey and not from aggregated polling or anything like that, it's an online one that anyone can just sign up to and claim to be a Muslim. You can also easily fill out the survey over and over with different email addresses. It might as well just be a twitter poll.
I'm sure Labours polling with Muslim voters has dropped in the last few days but not by 70% or whatever it is they're claiming. I wish there was proper aggregated polling done with Muslim voters though, would be interesting to see where things stand. Labour definitely can't just assume on their votes.
It’s useful as a finger on the pulse survey following the conflict in Palestine and Keir’s comments.That Muslim census survey is pretty worthless to be honest
It's a survey and not from aggregated polling or anything like that, it's an online one that anyone can just sign up to and claim to be a Muslim. You can also easily fill out the survey over and over with different email addresses. It might as well just be a twitter poll.
I'm sure Labours polling with Muslim voters has dropped in the last few days but not by 70% or whatever it is they're claiming. I wish there was proper aggregated polling done with Muslim voters though, would be interesting to see where things stand. Labour definitely can't just assume on their votes.
Pretty much where I'm at too. I even voted for him in the Labour leadership election.Well just speaking for myself, he has lost my vote due to his stance on this, and the vote of a few others in my circle who are labour leaning. Which is a shame because despite being a bit boring, I've often championed him against a lot of people I know who say he doesn't offer anything. A man who says the things he's said on this clearly is no principled man and will just do whatever the people behind the scenes tell him to do.
The problem is of course who else to vote for. The Lib Dems are no better - Ed Davey had the exact same stance of 'Israel has a right to defend itself' that's been pushed out to pretty much most UK politicians. I haven't checked out the Greens, but the first past the post system gives them no hope of doing anything. So possibly just leads to another abstain, from me.
I think I’m in the same boat and it seems the UK Muslim population are too. I’m secretly hoping Jezza runs as an independent.Well just speaking for myself, he has lost my vote due to his stance on this, and the vote of a few others in my circle who are labour leaning. Which is a shame because despite being a bit boring, I've often championed him against a lot of people I know who say he doesn't offer anything. A man who says the things he's said on this clearly is no principled man and will just do whatever the people behind the scenes tell him to do.
The problem is of course who else to vote for. The Lib Dems are no better - Ed Davey had the exact same stance of 'Israel has a right to defend itself' that's been pushed out to pretty much most UK politicians. I haven't checked out the Greens, but the first past the post system gives them no hope of doing anything. So possibly just leads to another abstain, from me.
Well just speaking for myself, he has lost my vote due to his stance on this, and the vote of a few others in my circle who are labour leaning. Which is a shame because despite being a bit boring, I've often championed him against a lot of people I know who say he doesn't offer anything. A man who says the things he's said on this clearly is no principled man and will just do whatever the people behind the scenes tell him to do.
The problem is of course who else to vote for. The Lib Dems are no better - Ed Davey had the exact same stance of 'Israel has a right to defend itself' that's been pushed out to pretty much most UK politicians. I haven't checked out the Greens, but the first past the post system gives them no hope of doing anything. So possibly just leads to another abstain, from me.
Are you in Islington? Last I heard he was planning to defend his seat as an Indie.I think I’m in the same boat and it seems the UK Muslim population are too. I’m secretly hoping Jezza runs as an independent.
Well just speaking for myself, he has lost my vote due to his stance on this, and the vote of a few others in my circle who are labour leaning. Which is a shame because despite being a bit boring, I've often championed him against a lot of people I know who say he doesn't offer anything. A man who says the things he's said on this clearly is no principled man and will just do whatever the people behind the scenes tell him to do.
The problem is of course who else to vote for. The Lib Dems are no better - Ed Davey had the exact same stance of 'Israel has a right to defend itself' that's been pushed out to pretty much most UK politicians. I haven't checked out the Greens, but the first past the post system gives them no hope of doing anything. So possibly just leads to another abstain, from me.
No i’m south of the river, but if that’s true it’s good to know.Are you in Islington? Last I heard he was planning to defend his seat as an Indie.
Why is that tough to fathom? Your taxes are also contributing to military and diplomatic initiatives. I personally find it bizarre that voters are able to disconnect them instead of judging a party or candidate by their total package.I may be in the minority here, but I find it really bizzare that a politicians stance on a foreign affairs matter is more important to some voters than local and national policy.
It’s useful as a finger on the pulse survey following the conflict in Palestine and Keir’s comments.
I also can’t imagine anyone making multiple emails to game the survey either, but who knows.
I think I’m in the same boat and it seems the UK Muslim population are too. I’m secretly hoping Jezza runs as an independent.
Why is that tough to fathom? Your taxes are also contributing to military and diplomatic initiatives. I personally find it bizarre that voters are able to disconnect them instead of judging a party or candidate by their total package.
Its on the voter to decide ultimately, but to simply discount foreign and diplomatic policy when making a decision at the ballot box isn't the sort of disconnect I'm able to contend with. I could never vote for a Blairite Labour after his war push led to a million dead Iraqis, regardless of whether or not his domestic policies were more favourable than the alternative.Because it is not as nearly as important as internal policy, and we don't have to pretend otherwise.
He misrepresented the visit - read the statement from the mosque & imam (it’s on this page I think).
On your second point - it’s providing more transparency to Labour voters on what their MPs are doing and more specifically where they stand on the Palestine / Israel issue.
So why are you hoping that Corbyn runs as an independent?No i’m south of the river, but if that’s true it’s good to know.
I can understand the disillusionment and I'm sure most can in this thread at least.Pretty much where I'm at too. I even voted for him in the Labour leadership election.
And before anyone leaps at me saying I'm playing into the Tory's hands - at this point I don't really care, call it irrational but the last 5 years of Politics have sapped any enthusiasm I have in taking part in the democratic process. Especially with our current electoral system that dooms us to being a two party state, or 1.5 party state considering Starmer's Tory Houdini act.
Hopefully prevent Rachel Reeves from living out her dream of being tougher than the Tories on welfare and not wanting to be seen to represent anyone in receipt of benefits.People want Corbyn to run as leader of a new independent party?
What would that achieve ?