Absolutely. Blair (and Brown) introduced changes which did move the Overton window. Starmer could pass PR and therefore change politics for the next 50 years , even if he did nothing else. What exactly do we have to vote for?
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Absolutely. Blair (and Brown) introduced changes which did move the Overton window. Starmer could pass PR and therefore change politics for the next 50 years , even if he did nothing else. What exactly do we have to vote for?
No way, Blair was a 'mesmeric shadow shifter', Starmer is the old fashioned Labour right of centre leader, who is cleaning house, pulling strings inside and outside the party, not (for the moment anyway) offering hostages to fortune, his eyes set on the prize. The only comparison with Blair (for my money) is that he recognises the need for a 'big tent', but will not allow the 'rowdy lot' to get anywhere near the central pillar holding the tent up.
NEC 26 September 2023 - Report from Ann Black
| Hello again Below is a report on the latest NEC meeting - a pdf version is here. As always comments and questions are welcome - I will try to reply to as many as possible before heading to conference next week. Good luck to everyone in Rutherglen & Hamilton West, Tamworth and Mid-Bedfordshire, and all our target seats. Ann Black NEC constituency representative National Executive Committee, 26 September 2023 NEC members gathered in Glasgow and spent the morning campaigning for Michael Shanks in the Rutherglen & Hamilton West by-election before the formal meeting in the afternoon. Unfortunately there were technical glitches and those joining remotely could not hear all the discussion, reinforcing my view that hybrid meetings are not an easy or universal answer to problems of exclusion. The NEC welcomed Ellie Reeves, returning as deputy campaign co-ordinator. Ellie previously represented constituencies for ten years and was poised to become the second chair from the CLP section when Momentum-backed candidates swept the board in 2016. The NEC observed a moment’s silence in tribute to Ann Clwyd, Gerry Bermingham, Ann Clwyd, Fiona Dent, Doug Naysmith and Una Walker. Onward to Liverpool Harry Donaldson, chair of the conference arrangements committee, reported that currently 1,012 CLP delegates and 280 affiliate delegates were registered, with total attendance at 16,177. Income from fringes and exhibitions was breaking all records, with 850 fringe events and 237 stalls. The charity collection would fund research into glioblastoma in memory of former general secretary Margaret McDonagh. A total of 323 motions had been submitted, with some appeals against rejection still to be heard. Conference would cast a single vote on the final national policy forum report, with no references back this year as the policy-making process for this parliament has concluded. Any motions which raised additional or conflicting points would be carried forward to the next cycle. The NEC, charged with electing three assistant conference chairs, chose Luke Akehurst, Nesil Caliskan, Abdi Duale, Wendy Nichols, Ellie Reeves and Gavin Sibthorpe, in addition to the chair Johanna Baxter and vice-chair James Asser. Women in the Lead The women’s conference on the Saturday will have a key role in setting the stage. The national women’s committee would have preferred a standalone conference as in 2019 and, if that was not practicable, to play a greater role on the day, with sessions chaired by women’s committee members representing CLPs as well as affiliates. More generally there is a need for the women’s organisation to be valued and resourced as a vital part of Labour’s democratic structures, and I hope the new committee, to be elected in Liverpool, will take this forward. Harry confirmed that the two motions prioritised by the women’s conference would be scheduled at annual conference, probably with other motions on the same topics. The NEC approved the draft timetable, though with concerns that public services were again on the Wednesday morning, after the leader’s speech and after the media circus had left. A final programme, with additional exciting guest appearances, would come to the NEC on Saturday evening. Surprises Back in the day the NEC used to discuss rule changes in July, which allowed time for full consideration and for CLPs to advise their delegates. Regrettably this has slid back to September, and some fairly sweeping amendments were presented. As usual these were leaked in advance, at https://labourlist.org/2023/09/labour-nec-meeting-rule-changes-clps-conference-motions-jeremy-corbyn/ but for those who don’t follow LabourList here is my account. First, new wording spells out that members can be expelled for supporting individuals, as well as organisations, who stand and campaign against Labour candidates. The party has always done so, but this adds clarity. Though I am still concerned about defining “support” to include ten-year-old likes of slightly dodgy Facebook posts. Second, there is some tidying up in the disciplinary area for those who confuse proscribed acts with prohibited acts, and need to distinguish their NCCs from their ICBs. Third, removing the power of CLPs to investigate complaints within their own party and to refer cases directly to the national constitutional committee. I welcome this. I do not believe it is appropriate for individuals to be discussed by their own executive and by all members at a general meeting. Networks and personal loyalties make a fair hearing difficult, and vexatious complaints can stoke up tensions. Fourth, and more controversially, from next year motions will again be restricted to “contemporary” issues not addressed in reports from the NEC or the national policy forum. The arbitrary use of this criterion has caused much discontent over the years. One member presented it as a compromise, with the ideal situation being no motions whatsoever and all policy developed through the NPF. I am sceptical. I was elected as chair of the NPF in 2018, left the NEC that September and returned to the position in November 2020 after it had lain vacant for two years. No-one noticed. After 25 years this is not a functioning system. I would have preferred to keep a limited number of motions, with their importance assessed by the priorities ballot. It’s hard to see how Labour for a New Democracy could have built their campaign for proportional representation from the grassroots up through CLPs and unions under the new regime, or to get a sense of what members care about. However the change was agreed by 19 votes to 7. All Change, Again Fifth, following the boundary review local parties have been diligently working to get new constituencies up and running immediately after conference, as instructed in the reorganisation handbook. This states that “new CLPs will be established in accordance with the Rules for CLPs (Chapter 7) and Model Procedural Rules (Chapter 18) as outlined in the Labour Party Rule Book. Any necessary variations can be agreed with the Regional/Welsh office in advance of the CLPs next AGM”. Secretaries naturally assumed that this meant the current 2023 rulebook and rushed to adapt their local rules. Following national and regional advice some have already held branch AGMs and scheduled CLP AGMs as early as 14 October 2023. I was astonished to find that conference would be asked to approve significant changes to the model rules which CLPs will be required to adopt immediately, and disturbed that these had clearly been discussed in private for some time. So my first objection was to casually ignoring the extra work involved in revising local rules midway through their AGMs. This has not been well received, to put it mildly. What Difference Does it Make? Moving on to the substance, the main change is to the numbers and roles of executive officers. The six core voting officers will be chair, vice-chair campaigns and membership, secretary, treasurer, women’s officer and trade union liaison officer. The TU liaison officer will be elected by trade union delegates only, where there are any, and must come from a union affiliated to the party. Other current roles, including policy officer and most equalities officers, will become “functional officers”, encouraged to report to the executive committee but without a vote. My main concerns are: - a hierarchy of equalities. Especially after the Forde report it sends the wrong signals to keep the women’s officer but downgrade the BAME (Black, Asian and minority ethnic), LGBT+, disabled and youth officers. CLPs can apply to add them as full voting executive officers but will require regional sign-off before this can be implemented. As now, where there are equalities branches their secretaries will replace the corresponding executive or functional officer. The NEC agreed an amendment whereby if none of the six lead officers is BAME, the BAME officer will be promoted to the ruling group, but this does nothing for the other equalities strands. The NEC’s own equalities subcommittee met two weeks earlier but was not consulted; - combining campaigns, membership, vice-chair and perhaps election agent in a single post is a huge workload. Instead of having a separate campaign co-ordinator this postholder will co-ordinate constituency-wide campaigns; liaise with national and Scottish / Welsh / regional offices and affiliated organisations in promoting party campaigns; and liaise with other election agents over campaign strategies for elections and referendums. In addition to keeping on top of Organise and the party’s other software, which in itself consumes many hours. The response was that the post could be job-shared. Actually all posts except chair and treasurer can be jobshared, but the point of a jobshare is for the two sharers to do 50% each, not for two people each to do 100%. I do not know if CLPs will be able to make sensible adjustments which recognise the total load and the different skill sets. As for CLPs which are currently midway through the process, it was suggested that branch nominations for posts which will shortly disappear are deleted at the CLP AGM, or transferred to different posts. I understand the arguments for a smaller executive, but discussion in July would have allowed proper consideration, identified areas of agreement, and avoided unnecessary work for hard-pressed volunteers. And if 14 is judged too many for effective decision-making, what does that say about the 39-member NEC? Further points reinforce delegate-based general committees as the default structure, though CLPs with all-member meetings – a majority in the south-east region – are free to keep them. I disagreed with the comment that GCs are helpful to new members in understanding their place in the party. Attending your first meeting and being told that you cannot vote or speak without the chair’s permission is surely not the best welcome. I also recall 1995, when Tony Blair had to bypass GCs, dominated by the activist minority, and go directly to individual members to get his new Clause IV adopted. What goes around comes around. I registered an abstention, but these proposals will go through conference supported by close to 100% of the trade unions, and a single vote on the entire package. The most I could get was an informal undertaking to look at issuing guidance to CLPs now, rather than waiting till the new rules have been rubber-stamped. Sixth, I was pleased that the NEC approved my rule change which would allow the national women’s committee to replace members leaving before the end of their term. Currently five of the six CLP positions are vacant. General Secretary’s Report David Evans said the Tories would do anything to try to hang on to power, suppressing turnout through photo-ID and making postal votes harder to obtain, and increasing the limit on national election expenditure to more than £30 million. This made conference fundraising and other initiatives including the Rose Network and the lottery even more important. The new code of conduct was on its way to members. The business board agreed a trial increase in the lowest membership rate of £3 a year, applying to 14 to 19-year-olds, students and the initial year for armed forces members. This would rise to £12 a year or £1 a month, the smallest amount for which direct debits can be set up. My experience is that most recent problems with membership relate to those paying annually by card or cheque, with some not receiving reminders and others simply vanishing. So I suggested cash incentives for single-payers to switch to direct debit, which saves administrative costs. It worked with me 30 years ago, when the bribe was a mere £5. Leaders’ Reports Keir Starmer sent a written report, listing his activities in the UK and abroad, building partnerships which will serve Labour well if we can win the people’s trust. He stressed that this conference might be the final opportunity to set out our positive offer to the country, and looked forward to meeting in Liverpool. Angela Rayner emphasised Labour’s offer on the future of work and the need for clarity and unity throughout the movement. Labour would not rejoin the European Union, but no-one wanted to water down consumer or environmental protections or employment rights. Members raised sustainable long-term funding for local government, the future of HS2, and facility time for trade union representatives. Ellie Reeves gave a detailed update on the three upcoming by-elections, and campaign director Morgan McSweeney repeated the need to show Labour as a serious party, ready for government, with determination but absolutely no complacency. I asked when all CLPs would be able to choose their candidates, which they are desperately keen to do, but as yet there are no firm assurances. NEC Development Fund Panel, 28 September 2023 Finally an update on the meeting which allocates money from membership subscription income. A larger proportion used to be returned to CLPs on a pro rata basis, but since 2011 much of it has been held centrally, with grants made in response to bids for support, either for local organisers or for projects which enhance democracy and diversity. Again the money largely went to those regions where directors co-ordinated bids, to national funding for digital trainees and key seat organisers, and to those who simply asked, including some Labour groups. We made two further grants to fund equipment for hybrid meetings, and asked for feedback from these and other similar bids to share best practice with local parties. The good news is that the fund seems to have more money than previously thought, so look out for the next application of deadlines, but I am still not convinced that the scheme fulfils either its original aims or the rulebook. With a new party treasurer and a new finance officer I am hopeful that a genuine review will at last take place. As usual please feel free to circulate and/or post online, and contact me at annblack50@btinternet.com / 07956-637958. Previous reports are at www.annblack.co.uk |
Among many things that that report shows, this one, " The NEC welcomed Ellie Reeves, returning as deputy campaign co-ordinator. " with go under the radar.
Thats rachel reeves' sister. The Labour right live on nepotism.
Thats rachel reeves' sister. The Labour right live on nepotism.
Yes!! Down with the Labour right!! Another 5 years of Tory rule on the horizon! Excellent
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I never thought I'd be wishing for a Liberal coalition again, but a party with some semblance of a policy different to the Tory extremism of the day is looking good right now.
He needs to stop going on about what he isn’t for, and start committing to things he is!
Otherwise we’re stuck with the snake oil merchants and shysters for another 5yrs and I’m going to have to emigrate!
When he ran on progressive policies, they had anywhere between 20-30 point lead consistently. Since he sat back and let the sitting prime minister write his manifesto for him, the Labour lead has evaporated. It's a product of the Labour right (literally) that his lead has fallen to shit. Played himself, intentionally, into this position (out-right-ing the Tories). That's a trip to the bottom and the Tories will beat you with experience.Yes!! Down with the Labour right!! Another 5 years of Tory rule on the horizon! Excellent
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All the shifts in this single poll are within the margin of error. Therefore no conclusions can be drawn.
Yes!! Down with the Labour right!! Another 5 years of Tory rule on the horizon! Excellent
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After the 2019 election scores of Labour MPs made the point that every vote needed to be earned and the defeat showed Labour failed to convince the electorate they deserved to be in Government.
The same standard must be applied to the next election too.
And the two main parties are condemning hundreds of thousands of children to poverty because of their insistence of the two child benefit cap.
What a choice for the electorate.
If he is this authoritarian and suppressive as leader of the opposition, imagine the damage he could do as PM.
Starmstock hasn't even got going yet and he's already making friends with the locals.
Establishment has him by the balls
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67016873
Essentially the Tory's have sabotaged it to the point that it's unworkable for labour too. So yeah, situation has changed.
The Tories have ripped up all of the phases for the Northern lines and are going to sell off the land marked for the project to private investors. To commit to opening up the HS2 project again after that factoring the new costs onto account is asking for trouble.
I get this narrative for flip-flopping but in this case, his hands are literally tied.
Which Reeves literally starts that tweet with.
I think most people I know up here around Manchester were skeptical about the benefits of HS2 anyway, as all it's likely to do is further increase house prices and price locals out of home ownership (because Londoners could commute from here) and we'd still be stuck with shit transport elsewhere. So not many are bothered about the fact there will now not be another incredibly expensive way to travel to the London. We're more bothered that it's just another of the Conservatives broken promises when it comes to the North and further evidence of them squandering huge amounts of cash and delivering nothing in return.
I'm incredibly bothered about missing on HS2. The plan was to start urgent upgrades on the West Coast line once the Crewe leg had been completed. It requires major work, and it's not something that can be maintained over bank holiday weekends. Over the next decade, the one, already unreliable line to London will be getting worse and worse. This wasn't just a 'nice to have', and to be clear, nothing much new has been announced to improve transport within the North, it was already existing schemes which the Tories have green lit and cancelled over and over. To think this is a commitment to delivering these often promised improvements is incredibly naive, as is the idea we build a wall around Manchester to stop Londoners coming in and increasing the house prices.
See who buys up the land now from Crewe, watch how much profit they make and what they do to block any future HS2 proposals. The scheme is dead. Sunak is cooked, and he's burning the house down before flying off to Los Angeles. They only came to Manchester to announce this as massive feck you to Labour, Burnham and the people of Manchester. We need a public enquiry right now. The long term plans for this country are being torn up by an unelected PM, who followed an unelected PM who followed a PM who was kicked in disgrace. It's an outrage.
They're not even putting Starmer in his least favourite position, one where he has to make a decision. They've killed this out of pure spite.
I know some people had misgivings around HS2, nobody I know in real life to be fair, but they're not getting a chance to be discussed in a public forum. It's been murdered in the dark.
Just to be clear, I didnt believe any of that stuff either, and I'm well aware of how bad train services are between London and Glasgow/Edinburgh via Manchester. They're fecking awful. I've never known service as bad as it is, but most of the overcrowding comes from train companies using a loophole whereby they can take your money and cancel the service you've paid for with zero compensation to pay out.
Yeah, I agree, the services themselves are worse than ever. The WCML used to actually be quite good. Again, why is Starmer not talking about taking these back into public hands? From what I've been told, the issues with that line are going to get worse, even beyond the control of the wank service providers.
I am so furious about this. It's politics of spite by people who have no right to damage a country they'll have no control of in year's time.
I genuinely think that the Government taking over and running Northern has been done in such a way as to discourage people from thinking renationalisation is a good thing, because they are one of the most unreliable operators in the country.
A win for commuters up here would be to close the 'late change to the schedule' loophole and fine companies who fail to provide any advertised service. But that's too hard for the government and probably too progressive for this Labour Party as it might upset some board members.
Yeah, as much as there are a myriad of policies Starmer has betrayed Labour members and voters on, this is not one of them. The Tories are selling off the land.
herself ?
herself ?
The Old Testament's prophets referred to Israel as a "woman" (Isaiah 54:5–6; Jeremiah 4:31; Micah 4:9–10). The woman flees into the wilderness where she is nourished for 1260 days, the equivalent of three and a half years or forty-two months (cf. Rev. 12:6).
Taken from popular Wikipedia page, 'Woman of the Apocalypse'.
Cheers. Although imo that’s still very weird for a politician in 2023 to bring up.
Oh it's weird as all hell, that was just the first hit when I searched "Israel referred to as a woman"
Oh it's weird as all hell, that was just the first hit when I searched "Israel referred to as a woman"
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It's an old-fashioned usage, but countries were often gendered.
It is no longer considered correct though. Could just be that it was the fashion when he was in school.
It is no longer considered correct though. Could just be that it was the fashion when he was in school.
Tbf Starmer is a flag shagger so I guess it makes sense.
Starmer gone ultra woke. Using pronouns for countries now!
herself ?
The US possibly forcing troops/pact to Saudi Arabia would be the biggest threat to Israeli security. So, Saudi nuance in geopol ought to kill that dead (two state as minimal concession, unless that actually happens, which, if so, everyone in that region and globally would receive a vast electoral boom - just going to take longer than the time the Biden admin is pushing). Anyway, it would threaten a very tenuous but tangible Fertile Cresent awakening which hasn't happened in anyone's lifetime.
Interesting cheers.
Will move to the Hypernormalstation thread if it turns out to be a ai/fake audio
What, no turkey?!
Fake
I'm far too left wing to be allowed into Starmstock.