Would agree with this.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Labour pulled off a surprise win over an independent in the mayoral election in May. Sounds like local issues tbh.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-65491414.amp
Sage
Personally think he is just doing what needs be to get elected. Minimising any fault lines while he has a poll lead. I will judge him on if he is Tory-lite when he and his cabinet are in power. I will be voting him in on the basis of wanting the Tories out and then we will see if he is a progressive or just a Clegg.
https://www.slowboring.com/p/the-two-kinds-of-progressives
I found some of this interesting regarding how progressives have to appeal to certain quarters, in order to be able to enact progressive policies.
I found some of this interesting regarding how progressives have to appeal to certain quarters, in order to be able to enact progressive policies.
The Tory is strong in this one
Biden would be expelled from the Labour party for being a left-wing radical
Yeah when I saw his comment after the by election where he said something like "Somethings wrong if our policies are being discussed in Tory campaigns" I did laugh. He's basically saying that if the Tories criticise it, it has to go but they're either going to criticise it or copy it so he's limiting himself to their manifesto.
They’re a disgrace.
They won't be getting my vote.
The Times They Aren't A-Changin'
A most unexpected development.
It's time for a people's party , free from corporate puppet masters
I'm very close to that point too. Unless their manifesto has something far more radical in it, then I will be voting green.
It's well past the point of giving them the benefit of the doubt. Any thought that they are simply trying not to scare the powerful is long gone if they keep making promises they'll have to keep.
Yeah the argument Labour is scared of talking about tax hikes, given taxes are already at a post-war high, doesn't cut it. Take a stance, shift the burden and push up CGT so the wealthier pay more.
Living outside of Britain you realise how high taxes are there. VAT at 20% is punitive too.
Is there anyone in here still defending these rats?
I'd love to see Starmer properly explain why people should actually vote for him. He normally uses platitudes.
Pretty much.
There’s was a article earlier which basically said Starmer got £400 google dinner and then Labour tax policy changed.
I don’t think it be underestimated just how right wing a lot of Party went in the Corbyn era. While there’s was a lot left wing policy during 2015 - 2020 there was also a growing insane anti socialism. To point now where as @berbatrick says Biden would be considered to left wing for the party.
Something something Tories are bad something(Oh don’t think about the bit where we are copying their policy).
So people that usually vote Tory can continue to vote for Tory policy without having to be ashamed of voting for the actual Tories.
They don't care what any other group of voters want to hear because they are convinced they have their votes by default due to lack of any alternative option. Might come back to bite them on the arse if a good portion if those voters don't bother turning up to the polls next time out of apathy. But it probably will work and get them into power for a single term until the voters they've targeted switch back to the Tory party after they've been given a fresh lick of paint and Labour are left without a base.
I suspect you're probably right. If Starmer just does what the Torys do then he won't last long. It does seem like they're trying to win over Tory voters the way Clinton tried to win over republicans in 2016.
Biden would be expelled from Labour and Bernie would get coup-ed if he won power.
The concentration of efforts to make sure Labour definitely won't win the election by the left desperate to draw attention and whip up anger over things Starmer has said, compared with very little outrage over what the Tories are actually doing, demonstrates the only point of real difference between the hard left and the right wing press is method rather than outcome.
Keeping Sunak in Downing Street is clearly the preferred outcome for both.
The denials are always interesting. As if in an effective two horse race, you can pretend not to know efforts to damage the chances of one of the horses makes it far more likely other will win.
If Tory HQ invented social media bots to infiltrate hard left Twittersphere as a pretend ally to convince everyone in marginal constituencies not to bother turning out to vote Labour, their feed would basically be every Tweet posted in this thread.
Keeping Sunak in Downing Street is clearly the preferred outcome for both.
The denials are always interesting. As if in an effective two horse race, you can pretend not to know efforts to damage the chances of one of the horses makes it far more likely other will win.
If Tory HQ invented social media bots to infiltrate hard left Twittersphere as a pretend ally to convince everyone in marginal constituencies not to bother turning out to vote Labour, their feed would basically be every Tweet posted in this thread.
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It will never not be funny that Chuck Grassley’s tweets are written by a 14 year old girl in the year 2000.
The likes of Novara Media and Owen Jones (I’m not saying they speak for everyone on the left, but they have popular online shows) regularly criticise the Tories and their disastrous record in government, while also criticising Starmer. And as they should do, while they criticise Starmer, they clearly criticise the Tories a lot more, as the governing party deserves even greater scrutiny than any opposition party. On the flipside while the likes of Alistair Campbell criticised Corbyn, he criticised May and Johnson a lot more,
It’s a not a binary thing, and people can have multiple thoughts at the same time, including thinking that the Tories are terrible, but that Starmer isn’t a wonderful alternative. And criticising Starmer doesn’t mean that the Tories’ failures are being ignored.
Now if anyone on the left is saying that a Starmer led administration would be worse than any Tory led administration, that’s a different thing and completely ridiculous, but I can’t imagine that’s overly common. On the flipside Philip Collins who in Starmer’s speechwriter, having formerly been Blair’s speechwriter, tweeted that Corbyn was worse than Johnson. People on the ‘centrist’ wing of the Labour Party are perfectly entitled to dislike Corbyn and think that he was a bad leader, but thinking that he was worse than an incompetent, dishonest, lazy and corrupt Tory leader? That’s completely different.
It’s a not a binary thing, and people can have multiple thoughts at the same time, including thinking that the Tories are terrible, but that Starmer isn’t a wonderful alternative. And criticising Starmer doesn’t mean that the Tories’ failures are being ignored.
Now if anyone on the left is saying that a Starmer led administration would be worse than any Tory led administration, that’s a different thing and completely ridiculous, but I can’t imagine that’s overly common. On the flipside Philip Collins who in Starmer’s speechwriter, having formerly been Blair’s speechwriter, tweeted that Corbyn was worse than Johnson. People on the ‘centrist’ wing of the Labour Party are perfectly entitled to dislike Corbyn and think that he was a bad leader, but thinking that he was worse than an incompetent, dishonest, lazy and corrupt Tory leader? That’s completely different.
Hi Barry, can you tell Paul you're still alive.
You sound like you need saving from a cult.
Starmer did this to himself.
Sorry, are all the tweets made up, then?
There's nothing wrong with hoping a Labour leader will be a shade better than this and calling out this Tory-light bollocks for what it is.
Don't feed the troll, he posts the same post using different words every week and never actually engages in debate.
He's socialist baiting and always with that lot patting themselves on the back whilst doing so not realizing they're just angry old guys stuck arguing points past their sell by date.
He criticises Labour voters more than he does Tories in government.
I'd still vote the tories out, but feck me we are just going to end up with a slightly more competent but just as right wing mob.sigh.
As @Smores said, best to just ignore. Ordinarily I'd be against ignoring people, but Stw just regurgitates the same thing over and over and won't actually engage.
To be fair, I am getting a bit of deja vu with his posts. I've probably replied with the same sentiment earlier in the thread.
It's a very depressing situation when we're seeing the slow death of the Tories in the 2020s, but the alternative is a rehash of the Tories circa 2010. Doomed to repeat the same mistakes.
Literally most of his posts in this thread have some version of "the left wants Labour to lose". And not just in sentiment, but explicitly. It's fun to point and laugh, but it's not worth engaging.
Depends what you mean by worse. Johnson won the election, Corbyn lost against him. From that perspective he was worse, wasn't he?