Keir Starmer Labour Leader

NicolaSacco said:
Even if that is the case, and I struggle to see how you can be sure of it, what options does Starmer have? Surely the first step is actually getting in to power in the first place. If the best way he can do that is to appeal to centrist Dads then he’s got to do it.
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Oh I’m not knocking him for that, if you want to make change you have to get in to power to do it. You can’t change shit when you’re the opposition, despite what some people in Hartlepool think.

And the polls show he’s playing that balancing act pretty well so far.
 
berbatrick said:
I was also just getting glimpses before the paywall thing came up, didn't get much.
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Yeah, I'd like a way round the paywall I must admit. For the record I am strongly in favour of school meals for all children, I'm well acquainted with schools in areas of poverty and I would give it a high priority. I don't know how much it would cost however, but I would like to think it was affordable.
 
711 said:
Yeah, I'd like a way round the paywall I must admit. For the record I am strongly in favour of school meals for all children, I'm well acquainted with schools in areas of poverty and I would give it a high priority. I don't know how much it would cost however, but I would like to think it was affordable.
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I think, if it is seen as a giveaway by the demographic that Starmer is targeting, it is important to publicly back away from it. It will help his margins. For anyone left, TINA.
 
NicolaSacco said:
Even if that is the case, and I struggle to see how you can be sure of it, what options does Starmer have? Surely the first step is actually getting in to power in the first place. If the best way he can do that is to appeal to centrist Dads then he’s got to do it.
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Please just type Starmer.
 
berbatrick said:
I think, if it is seen as a giveaway by the demographic that Starmer is targeting, it is important to publicly back away from it. It will help his margins. For anyone left, TINA.
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Tbh I think it's important to note that universal benefits are rarely progressive. We have a limited budget to work from and it's better that hungry kids get more than it being universal and all kids getting some but a little less than the hungry kids would have under a more targeted scheme. One of the biggest issues we face is having a universal state pension that's a financial black hole, and it isn't needed by about 20-30% of pensioners. That's about 30bn a year we pay to people who don't need it. Being progressive usually involves targeted support, universal giveaways are less so
 
I really don't think there are as many centrist dads as centrist dads think there are centrist dads. Starmer will win the next election because the Tories have imploded and been utterly exposed as cnuts, Brexit is a disaster, and no one is going to vote for them, so if Labour do anything but win an outright majority, it'll be a massive failure at this point. Centrist dads or no centrist dads. But the most inevitable thing about centrist dads, is that they will absolutely convince themselves that any victory of any sort was entirely down to them, the great, wise, all conquering centrist dads, who were finally appeased by the ingenuous Labour centrist dad rallying call of doing almost absolutely nothing. For deep down that is what all centrist dads yearn to do.... That and go to Glastonbury
 
jm99 said:


Starmer needs to start listening to the caf posters or he'll only be managing these 23 point leads
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Let's face reality, a monkey as Labour leader right now would have a 23 point lead with this current Tory party implosion and absolute shit show.
 
jm99 said:
Yes, but you're making the assumption that he won't help people. Given how historically shit the 2019 tory lot have been anything would be an improvement on handing them an 80 seat majority, but I'm optimistic starmer will do more than just improve on the worst government we've ever seen
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What evidence do you have for that optimism? Is it the constant Starmer lies/backtracking? Or him backing Tory policy but claiming he'll do it better? Maybe it's his anti democratic or authoritatian ways that you like?

Sounds like more of the same to me. We will see.
 
Mockney said:
I really don't think there are as many centrist dads as centrist dads think there are centrist dads. Starmer will win the next election because the Tories have imploded and been utterly exposed as cnuts, Brexit is a disaster, and no one is going to vote for them, so if Labour do anything but win an outright majority, it'll be a massive failure at this point. Centrist dads or no centrist dads. But the most inevitable thing about centrist dads, is that they will absolutely convince themselves that any victory of any sort was entirely down to them, the great, wise, all conquering centrist dads, who were finally appeased by the ingenuous Labour centrist dad rallying call of doing almost absolutely nothing. For deep down that is what all centrist dads yearn to do.... That and go to Glastonbury
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Who is more likely to want to undo the disaster of Brexit? The centrist dad wing of the Labour party once they have navigated their way into power, or the EU agnostic/ antagonist socialist wing with a penchant for fondling Putin's balls?
 
Drainy said:
Who is more likely to want to undo the disaster of Brexit? The centrist dad wing of the Labour party once they have navigated their way into power
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Keir Starmer has ruled out bringing back free movement of people between Britain and the EU, saying it would be a “red line” for Labour if it gets into power – despite supporting the policy just three years ago.
The Labour leader said free movement “won’t come back” if he becomes prime minister as Brexit has already happened and “ripping up” the deal would lead to years more wrangling with Brussels.

https://theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/27/keir-starmer-rules-out-return-free-movement-britain-eu
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But the Labour leader argued that the big questions over EU membership, notably over the single market, customs union and free movement of people, were “arguments of the past”, and could not be revisited.

https://theguardian.com/politics/20...rexit-as-he-rules-out-rejoining-single-market
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C4zl7_CWQAAyxO1.jpg
 
Drainy said:
Who is more likely to want to undo the disaster of Brexit? The centrist dad wing of the Labour party once they have navigated their way into power, or the EU agnostic/ antagonist socialist wing with a penchant for fondling Putin's balls?
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Ahh the Putin myth regurgitated. Great way to spot the misinformed posts.

Ironic considering the real Russian linked politician became PM and put the son of an ex KGB officer into the house of fecking Lords.

Let's at least get the subject of the "Russian links" question correct FFS. Otherwise what hope is there of unpicking the corrupt mess we are in.

#EndRant

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-security-evgeny-lebedev-perugia-party
 
Sweet Square said:
C4zl7_CWQAAyxO1.jpg
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Do you not expect the grown ups to start off living in political reality, then set up commissions to investigate the full impact of Brexit, then attempt to create the political landscape where more sensible policies are more politically acceptable?

Ok, it might be wishful thinking, but we know that the Corbyn wing were loving leaving the EU in the first place
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Ahh the Putin myth regurgitated. Great way to spot the misinformed posts.

Ironic considering the real Russian linked politician became PM and put the son of an ex KGB officer into the house of fecking Lords.

Let's at least get the subject of the "Russian links" question correct FFS. Otherwise what hope is there of unpicking the corrupt mess we are in.

#EndRant

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-security-evgeny-lebedev-perugia-party
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Yes Russia are behind Brexit in a big way, in my opinion. I'm sure they are glad useful idiot Corbyn was there to sweep it all up for them along the way. Do you think we'd be helping Ukraine if Corbyn was PM?
 
Drainy said:
Do you not expect the grown ups to start off living in political reality, then set up commissions to investigate the full impact of Brexit, then attempt to create the political landscape where more sensible policies are more politically acceptable?

Ok, it might be wishful thinking
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I’m not sure how we can talk about “sensible” politics while also hoping for a political outcome which is based on no evidence.

Also tbh even if this was somehow true your saying it’s ok for politicians to lie in public as long as it potentially advances some positive future agenda.
 
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Sweet Square said:
I’m not sure how we can talk about “sensible” politics while also hoping for a political outcome which is based on no evidence.

Also tbh even if this was somehow true your saying it’s ok for politicians to lie in public as long as it potentially advances some positive future agenda.
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It's based on the 'centrist dad' part of the Labour party being massively pro-EU before that position became political poison.

Politics is about changing perception, working to create an environment where we can have closer long term ties to Europe and its what the public want is the right way to go about overturning the referendum at this point.
 
Another one of those sensible policies. Thank God we have Starmer putting respectability back into politics.
 
Drainy said:
Who is more likely to want to undo the disaster of Brexit? The centrist dad wing of the Labour party once they have navigated their way into power, or the EU agnostic/ antagonist socialist wing with a penchant for fondling Putin's balls?
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What on earth are you talking about?
 
Dont worry guys, he's going to get in power, and u-turn all these u-turns
 
Mogget said:
Commie corbyn bad because he believes in Brexit. Centrist starmer good because he lies about believing in Brexit

Essentially.
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Yeah I don’t really care about any of that. But obviously Labour should’ve been more cautious about antagonising Brexiters in 2019, which is now incredibly evident to even most centrist dads. Though they won’t admit it because they were forcefully against it at the time. It’s one of the few things Corbyn was right about. Every member of Change UK and the leader of the Lib Dem’s lost their seat.

My point was that those centrist dads arent actually an important enough voting block to make or break an election for Labour, despite their own sense of self importance… if they were then Starmer wouldn’t be doubling down on making Brexit work, under the assumption that all the centrist dads know he’s lying, because if they were so important that would be a terribly risky strategy. And if there’s one thing this Labour are not, it’s risky. They’re incredibly cautious.

Amusingly Starmer approach to the centrist dads has been almost similar as his approach to the left, which is “eh, they’ll vote for us anyway” only they complain a lot less, because they don’t really seem care about as many things (apart from Glastonbury.)

I mean, if centrist dads were so important, the Lib Dem’s would’ve won the last election, Corbyn wouldn’t have gotten a sniff in 2017, Ed Milibands chaos would reign supreme and Brexit wouldn’t have happened at all!
 
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Mockney said:
Yeah I don’t really care about any of that. But obviously Labour should’ve been more cautious about antagonising Brexiters in 2019, which is now incredibly evident to even most centrist dads. Though they won’t admit it because they were forcefully against it at the time. It’s one of the few things Corbyn was right about. Every member of Change UK and the leader of the Lib Dem’s lost their seat.
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Corbyn's fence-sitting which worked well in 2017 was doomed the moment Boris got in power - reflected in the polls too. Maybe sticking to that would have helped, since obviously the election was a disaster, but I think Corbyn's Labour had no chance against a Tory party that was solidly Brexit. 2017's Labour coalition was a big youth majority with some remnants of older voters, Boris took almost all of those away, plus 2 years of tabloid attacks. The only chance was to also change leader as soon as Boris got in, but the centrists had already tried and failed that in 2016(?), and also, a pro-EU centrist would have faced some of the same problems.

Basically, from 2015 till now, under both leaderships, Labour's polling has been purely a function of the popularity of the Tory government, other than the one month before the 2017 election.
 
DOTA said:
Is Emily Eavis a centrist dad?
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it’s not who you are underneath (a centrist dad) it’s what you do, that defines you (put on a concert for centrist dads)

berbatrick said:
Corbyn's fence-sitting which worked well in 2017 was doomed the moment Boris got in power - reflected in the polls too. Maybe sticking to that would have helped, since obviously the election was a disaster, but I think Corbyn's Labour had no chance against a Tory party that was solidly Brexit. 2017's Labour coalition was a big youth majority with some remnants of older voters, Boris took almost all of those away, plus 2 years of tabloid attacks. The only chance was to also change leader as soon as Boris got in, but the centrists had already tried and failed that in 2016(?), and also, a pro-EU centrist would have faced some of the same problems.

Basically, from 2015 till now, under both leaderships, Labour's polling has been purely a function of the popularity of the Tory government, other than the one month before the 2017 election.
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Oh yeah, they still would’ve lost. But a loud cohort deliberately hobbling that fence sitting then steadfastly refusing to vote for it anyway was an utterly bizarre approach that achieved nothing. Especially as voting for the Lib Dem’s achieved even less somehow. If anything it’s only managed to make Starmer’s attempt to return to that position look much more suspicious, and the dads look silly.
 
Drainy said:
Who is more likely to want to undo the disaster of Brexit? The centrist dad wing of the Labour party once they have navigated their way into power, or the EU agnostic/ antagonist socialist wing with a penchant for fondling Putin's balls?
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What a hilarious or moronic thing to say. I hope you're joking :lol:
 
Not sure if it's been mentioned in here yet but this little toe rag along with the ever lovely Rachel Reeves and the charming Wes Streeting were in attendance at Rupert Murdoch's summer party. He and his cronies are scum and are so clearly part of the establishment that I can't believe my eyes reading a lot of the comments in here.
 
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People are increasingly terrified he's going to win. I know the hard left and the right will do their best to prevent that and attack anyone who dares to point out this common ground
 
ZupZup said:
Tory Starmer colluding with water bosses who want to create a task force to come up with ways they can prevent nationalisation and make the idea palatable to the public.

Absolute rat of a politician. How anyone can champion this version of Labour blows my mind.

https://www.standard.co.uk/business...tionalisation-labour-b1091238.html#r3z-addoor
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Unless I'm missing something in that article, I'm struggling to see any collusion. All we have is a CEO of a water company constructing an email to other CEOs of what a policy would look like in their eyes.
 
He has to say all this bad stuff so that he can get elected, but when he is elected he will be able to do all his previous pledges. Although he may have to wait a little while to settle into the job and get parliament and the country on side before going all in, but when he has full backing he will definitely do all the good policies. Just be prepared that there will probably be some local election at this time, putting him again under pressure from the right wing media and the Tory party, so all the good polices might need to wait just a little bit longer, but they will happen. Those policies are coming and he will defintely ditch his 'drown the homeless' pledge when he gets re-elected because that was just a bone to throw the right wing media anyway, he would never do that. Look there he's about to turn, any moment now, wait... wait... you watching?

oh.
 
stw2022 said:
People are increasingly terrified he's going to win. I know the hard left and the right will do their best to prevent that and attack anyone who dares to point out this common ground
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I mean, you could say exactly the same (more so) about the centre and the far right with Corbyn, so I don’t know what kind of ‘gotcha’ you think this is?

I also havent seen anyone who is ‘terrified’ merely incredibly disappointed that he’s got an open goal for Labour and is using it to likely usher in the most tepid 2010 austerity coalition conservatism just so precisely the kind of people who’ve always been comfortable can continue to be nicely comfortable in an era where we desperately need change, as all that will likely do in the long run is turn people off politics and allow an even worse version of the Tories in further down the line (whilst internally justifying the idea that nothing left wing should ever be at home in the Labour Party)

But you go off as if he’s making the establishment quake I guess. I WISH he was making people terrified. That’d be something. I know he apparently ‘has’ to do this to avoid rocking the boat, but I genuinely don’t buy this, as the biggest success stories in neoliberal centrism have been Clinton, Blair & Obama coming in from the soft left with a doctrine of change and then being mildly disappointing in office… absolutely no one is disappointingly bland in campaign and then a dynamic radical in office. When does that ever happen?

The more likely reason to have so systematically abandoned and opposed any kind of left wing policies when they’re so ahead in the polls, even when they’re popular, is so they never have to admit those policies helped them get elected. It’s an Overton shift by the Labour right, and as such should be opposed IMO, whilst it still can be (it’s currently not going to derail a likely Labour government… though it might help get a majority rather than a low turn out hung Parliament!)
 
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F-Red said:
Unless I'm missing something in that article, I'm struggling to see any collusion. All we have is a CEO of a water company constructing an email to other CEOs of what a policy would look like in their eyes.
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Did you read this bit of the article?

“The Labour leadership is aware we are soft testing various ideas but have asked us to keep it highly confidential so please don’t forward this email.”
 
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