Keir Starmer Labour Leader

After a weekend of reams of his Peoples Temple followers telling us there is no way his policy on the Public Order Act will be to keep it in place, Matalan Macron just comes out and says it.



Almost starting to warm to the guy as he clearly hates his supporters even more than I do.
 
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Badunk said:
The system is gerrymandered to promote a conservative government. And Starmer is of the opinion that the only route to power is to be a slightly watered down version of the tories.
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Starmer knows that the route to power is to appeal to the vast majority of the electorate.
You don't win a general election by appealing to minorities. That is what our history shows us. Left wing parties just don't win elections.
And if you think I am wrong, show me your evidence.
 
I like how with every other politician we’re supposed to react to what they say they're going to do as if they’re actually going to do it (or at least make fun of them for lying) but with Starmer we’re apparently supposed to react as if he is constantly lying to everyone just to get into power, and that actually this is really good! Because only us really smart people (wink) can see he’s doing this.

I certainly can’t see any flaw in this tactic.
 
I lay in bed at night unable to sleep, tossing and turning over in my mind the disgusting things that Starmer would have to do to finally repel his fans and as I dig deeper and deeper into that stinking hole of depravity, the light behind me grows dimmer and dimmer, till nothing.
 
Mockney said:
I like how with every other politician we’re supposed to react to what they say they're going to do as if they’re actually going to do it (or at least make fun of them for lying) but with Starmer we’re apparently supposed to react as if he is constantly lying to everyone just to get into power, and that actually this is really good! Because only us really smart people (wink) can see he’s doing this.

I certainly can’t see any flaw in this tactic.
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Tbf it’s not a bad tactic if all these smart people care about is “owning” online twitter accounts and not actual policy.

 
Sweet Square said:
Tbf it’s not a bad tactic if all these smart people care about is “owning” online twitter accounts and not actual policy.

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Yeah I’ve never liked O’Brien much. His whole schtick was just shouting at dumb people over Brexit after the fact for the catharsis of Remainers. A Jeremy Kyle act, really.
 
DOTA said:
Unwavering arrogance of these cnuts, man.
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Honestly what would have satisfied everyone is Corbyn winning the last election and then the British army rounding up all us lefties into Wembley Stadium. Just before the M16 bullet hits my temple, I hear O’Brien through the stadium speakers quoting the chaos with Ed Miliband tweet.

Oh what a glorious way to go out.
Mockney said:
Yeah I’ve never liked O’Brien much. His whole schtick was just shouting at dumb people over Brexit after the fact for the catharsis of Remainers. A Jeremy Kyle act, really.
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I could be wrong but pretty sure he had a talk show similar to Kyle act but yeah never really got the appeal as well.
 
Sweet Square said:
Honestly what would have satisfied everyone is Corbyn winning the last election and then the British army rounding up all us lefties into Wembley Stadium. Just before the M16 bullet hits my temple, I hear O’Brien through the stadium speakers quoting the chaos with Ed Miliband tweet.

Oh what a glorious way to go out.
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:lol:
Sweet Square said:
I could be wrong but pretty sure he had a talk show similar to Kyle act but yeah never really got the appeal as well.
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Mockney said:
Literal non-opposition

But it’s ok cos we’re all fascists or something.
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Look, the people voting are fascists so no one should tell them they are fascists we just need to go along with it. In fact, we should have 4 parties, all fascists. That's democracy.
 
TheGame said:
They are so fecking scared of the Brexit voting, migrant hating voters, it's unreal. No backbone whatsoever.
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It's important not to upset them, otherwise they may do things like voting for Brexit or hating immigrants.
 
Mockney said:
Yeah I’ve never liked O’Brien much. His whole schtick was just shouting at dumb people over Brexit after the fact for the catharsis of Remainers. A Jeremy Kyle act, really.
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James O'Brien is usually spot on about most things, he get's a few things wrong but been one of the better journalists in holding the Government to account.
 
I was already going to be gritting my teeth and holding my nose to vote labour, starmer and streeting are making it harder and harder.
 
It's really starting to raise the question of what a party is if its not it's policy positions.

If the Tories and Labour switch political leanings they'll be those on here still demanding that everyone has to vote Labour, because ultimately they want right wing policy but not to feel bad about it.

Labour have moved so far right now that they can't shift back when in power or they'll get mauled at the next election. So yeah we'll have a Cameron style government with a Labour badge, yay?
 
O'Brien's takedowns of government policy and hypocrisy are very eloquent but it's mostly theatre. He doesn't really care about the things he's railing against or else he'd actually support those who are calling for change, and have been for a long time. He's a poster boy for people who aren't particularly liberal in their views but are desperately embarrassed about it and want to be seen as such.

Most of the stuff this government is doing is simply building on legislation and rhetoric which originated decades ago with the Nationality and Immigration Acts of the 70s and 80s, had a little resurgence in the early 2000s under Blair, was carried forward by Cameron and May and which would be Labour policy again under Starmer. The main difference is that this government have no qualms about the fact that it is indeed far-right policy.

That creates a problem for a certain kind of "liberal" because they suddenly have to pivot to attack policies they didn't care about or maybe even endorsed previously in order to maintain a veneer of progressivism. They've tried to sell it by engaging in this bizarre pretence that what Patel and Braverman have done is somehow fundamentally removed from Blair's raft of anti-asylum legislation in the early-2000s and proposal of a point-based immigration system in 2004 and from later stuff like May's hostile environment as Home Secretary under Cameron.

One of the reasons the likes of O'Brien are so obsessed with Brexit is because Remain vs. Leave becoming a shorthand for progressive values vs. conservative values gave them an easy out from that obvious hypocrisy. This is how we ended up in this bizarre situation where people like Alastair Campbell, Rory Stewart and even Theresa feckin' May who spent years in politics supporting draconian border policy and spewing right-wing rhetoric suddenly emerged as centrist heroes whilst people who spent years protesting against detainment of asylum seekers were being accused of being anti-immigrant.

Unfortunately, by saying he wouldn't repeal half the current government's legislation, Starmer has put that sort of liberal in a position where they have to really come up with some bullshit to justify flipping again.
 
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So basically I am going to be a better Tory Party than the current lot. Labour is dead.
 
Drifter said:
So basically I am going to be a better Tory Party than the current lot. Labour is dead.
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This is what he said, before that 'conservative' line: "We must understand there are precious things – in our way of life, in our environment, in our communities – that it is our responsibility to protect and preserve and to pass on to future generations". And just after: "
He said Rishi Sunak’s party did not stand up for “our rivers and seas, not our NHS or BBC, not our families, not our nation”.

He's absolutely right about that. It's an open goal for Labour.
 
Tyrion said:
I'm starting to wonder if British people are just really conservative and will only vote Tory, forcing Labour to be Tory lite.
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The British people are Tory by and large, I am 41, for 13 of these years Labour were in power but it wasn't really Labour as the ideological folks want it, the other 28 years have been Tory rule for all of them, we can all wish for a Labour that we want but then that version lose so god damn always so what do you want to be loud in opposition or somewhat more capable in power I mean based on history they have those 2 options pretty much, the 3rd of appealing to electorate to win based on a pure socialist agenda has failed a lot and they know this so they aren't going to push it you could argue they should but if they do they won't win anything.
 
Gavinb33 said:
The British people are Tory by and large, I am 41, for 13 of these years Labour were in power but it wasn't really Labour as the ideological folks want it, the other 28 years have been Tory rule for all of them, we can all wish for a Labour that we want but then that version lose so god damn always so what do you want to be loud in opposition or somewhat more capable in power I mean based on history they have those 2 options pretty much, the 3rd of appealing to electorate to win based on a pure socialist agenda has failed a lot and they know this so they aren't going to push it you could argue they should but if they do they won't win anything.
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The FPTP system and constituency boundaries are setup for Tory rule. Doesn't mean "most" British people are Tory.

The previous General Election was mostly decided by Brexit it was primarily a one issue General Election. To use that as the basis for all future party policy would be ridiculous opportunism.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
The FPTP system and constituency boundaries are setup for Tory rule. Doesn't mean "most" British people are Tory.

The previous General Election was mostly decided by Brexit it was primarily a one issue General Election. To use that as the basis for all future party policy would be ridiculous opportunism.
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Without Brexit, you think Corbyn could or would have won?
 
Gavinb33 said:
The British people are Tory by and large, I am 41, for 13 of these years Labour were in power but it wasn't really Labour as the ideological folks want it, the other 28 years have been Tory rule for all of them, we can all wish for a Labour that we want but then that version lose so god damn always so what do you want to be loud in opposition or somewhat more capable in power I mean based on history they have those 2 options pretty much, the 3rd of appealing to electorate to win based on a pure socialist agenda has failed a lot and they know this so they aren't going to push it you could argue they should but if they do they won't win anything.
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Last time over 50% of people voted Tory in a General Election was in 1931.

Tories win for the reasons @Fluctuation0161 stated above.
 
Gavinb33 said:
Without Brexit, you think Corbyn could or would have won?
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Regardless of Corbyn, I think the 2017 election was more indicative of the public opinion on many socialist policies. E.g. nationalising rail, properly funding NHS, higher tax on the super rich to allow for much needed investment in public services etc.

Those policies also poll well. If Keir had stuck to his original leadership pledges and offered these policies with a more centrist, acceptable face and tone, then maybe the British public would've been inspired to vote Labour rather than some going to them as default because the Tories have become unelectable (for now).
 
nickm said:
This is what he said, before that 'conservative' line: "We must understand there are precious things – in our way of life, in our environment, in our communities – that it is our responsibility to protect and preserve and to pass on to future generations". And just after: "
He said Rishi Sunak’s party did not stand up for “our rivers and seas, not our NHS or BBC, not our families, not our nation”.

He's absolutely right about that. It's an open goal for Labour.
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I think he said it because he wanted it to be taken out of context and make headlines.
 
Gavinb33 said:
The British people are Tory by and large, I am 41, for 13 of these years Labour were in power but it wasn't really Labour as the ideological folks want it, the other 28 years have been Tory rule for all of them, we can all wish for a Labour that we want but then that version lose so god damn always so what do you want to be loud in opposition or somewhat more capable in power I mean based on history they have those 2 options pretty much, the 3rd of appealing to electorate to win based on a pure socialist agenda has failed a lot and they know this so they aren't going to push it you could argue they should but if they do they won't win anything.
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Fair. It definitely seems like plenty of British people agree with the Tories based on how often they win. It does seem that Starmer is trying too hard to be Tory light. He seems more bothered by the left than by Tories
 
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