It hasn’t been really though. Brexit and covid is a shitshow, his clownish personality just makes him standout in the madness
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Who was the driving force behind Brexit out of interest? They're making it up as they go along!!
Brexit is going to happen now regardless. I don’t vote based on grudges or by gone campaigning.
Yeah it's happening in a matter of weeks and the Prime Minister doesn't have a fecking clue what's going to happen!! The situation is dire. You're an extremely forgiving person.
You have absolutely no idea how negotiations are going and neither does anyone else bar the handful of people actually negotiating on either side. They’ll only be a success or failure on December 31st
Would you like to buy a bridge I have for sale?
No, why?
Labour democracy at it's finest
Looks like Corbyn has been turned into Voldermort now, he who shall not be named
The party isn't half making a mess of all this.
It is much more than a faction. At least half of Labour members are more left leaning than the PLP. It is a split between the members and the party hierarchy to some degree.
Not a good look and a split would not benefit either group imo. Which is why Starmer is making some big errors going against his pledge of building unity in the party.
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Quite the opposite, I'm afraid of people not having a choice.
We are already limited by the 2 party system, if the 2 parties are so similar there is only a tiny nuance between them, then surely choice is limited?
Huh?
Johnson literally campaigned for Brexit, got elected on the phrase "get Brexit done" and is integral to how it is now working out (or not).
What I meant by supporters was not just the party members, but the people amongst the general public who would like to vote Labour.
Politically I can only see labour voting in favour of whatever deal we get eventually with the EU, it’s too much of a landmine to contest it surely?
Yeah because he didn't need to say it in his response to the EHRC. You can say things that are true in an insensitive way.
''totally unacceptable''
Also in that thread she talks about expelling "thousands and thousands" of members. Every single word said about Corbyn's purges was projection.
Depends how much you value Labour members driving voters in their constituencies.
Maybe the rationale is, a few more Daily Mail editorials from Starmer and Labour won't need that.
It fecking mad tbh(And Rayner had the backing of momentum in the deputy leadership race!).
The party is beyond a parody at this point. For all the quoting and tossing off of Orwell during the Corbyn years, its depressingly funny to see complete silence on the 'True but nevertheless completely unacceptable'' line and attacks on basic democracy in the party.
It's almost like these people don't believe in anything.
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And? I reiterate my point.
You can call it downright stupid, yes. An intern would show a better judgement than Corbyn with his statement.
Maybe not a popular move, but I do like Starmer decision for Labour to abstain in today's vote on the new Tier system.
It will be accepted anyway but at least it will expose the true number of Tory MPs who will vote against it.
It will be accepted anyway but at least it will expose the true number of Tory MPs who will vote against it.
This may not be a popular thing to say but I am disappointed in Starmmer for abstaining. Either back it or don't. Personally, I don't think he should until the government has provided the full evidence.
I am pro vaccine and wanting to do what is right and get this under control, but provide the full evidence of the total costs and benefits of these tiers/lockdowns - it's not just COVID, but all the other things that get impacted by it.
Starmmer, like all the rebel back bencher's are rightly saying (felt dirty to praise them), should say to Boris that he will throw his weight behind the tiers/lockdowns IF he releases all the evidence and that shows it is the best course of action across the board
In times of crisis, you need strong opposition to hold the governing party to account to make sure they are making the right decisions as much as possible. Labour have been anything but strong. I understand at the start of the pandemic he could hide a bit, but it is not 'pro-covid' or whatever to ask for evidence, it's doing your job.
I am pro vaccine and wanting to do what is right and get this under control, but provide the full evidence of the total costs and benefits of these tiers/lockdowns - it's not just COVID, but all the other things that get impacted by it.
Starmmer, like all the rebel back bencher's are rightly saying (felt dirty to praise them), should say to Boris that he will throw his weight behind the tiers/lockdowns IF he releases all the evidence and that shows it is the best course of action across the board
In times of crisis, you need strong opposition to hold the governing party to account to make sure they are making the right decisions as much as possible. Labour have been anything but strong. I understand at the start of the pandemic he could hide a bit, but it is not 'pro-covid' or whatever to ask for evidence, it's doing your job.
I'm struggling to understand why this isn't on the naughty list. @sun_tzu what's the bollocks being spread to excuse this?
Probably reeling from the revelations that the ECHR's report writer a: looks like this and b: is a very naughty boy
https://www.theguardian.com/society...d-member-under-scrutiny-over-social-media-use
Can I just shock you? I like racism. Despite what I just said earlier.
How New leaders deal with Old leaders is a key indicator of how they might get on in their new role, Sir Keir is not doing too well on this score, it doesn't bode well for him.
What the new leader should do:
When old leaders pass over (the reason they left) its say it with flowers time, praise them to the hills, forgive them their sins, etc. no problem.
When old leaders retire, again praise and thanksgiving, forgive any past indiscretions, find them a great retirement job, send them on a world cruise, etc. keep well away.
When old leaders, hang around they can either be treated as a 'dead-man walking' i.e. re-assign their office space, secretary, clear out their files, cancel their papers/coffee/etc. or if that doesn't work assign some one to keep them occupied every minute of every day, a sort of '90 minute man-marking job', this person has to be an expert at 'running interference', melting into the shadows when need be and generally making a nuisance of themselves around the old leader.
What must not happen is the New Leader to allow the Old leader back into the ranks, to gather a 'gang' around them and ferment trouble/ sniping from behind cover... guess which option Sir Keir seems to be going for!!!
What the new leader should do:
When old leaders pass over (the reason they left) its say it with flowers time, praise them to the hills, forgive them their sins, etc. no problem.
When old leaders retire, again praise and thanksgiving, forgive any past indiscretions, find them a great retirement job, send them on a world cruise, etc. keep well away.
When old leaders, hang around they can either be treated as a 'dead-man walking' i.e. re-assign their office space, secretary, clear out their files, cancel their papers/coffee/etc. or if that doesn't work assign some one to keep them occupied every minute of every day, a sort of '90 minute man-marking job', this person has to be an expert at 'running interference', melting into the shadows when need be and generally making a nuisance of themselves around the old leader.
What must not happen is the New Leader to allow the Old leader back into the ranks, to gather a 'gang' around them and ferment trouble/ sniping from behind cover... guess which option Sir Keir seems to be going for!!!
What are you on about? How has Starmer allowed Corbyn back into the ranks? He first removed him from the party completely and when the party re-instated him, he then removed the whip from him.
The most coherent argument against his actions is that Starmer is trying to purge Corbynism from Labour and going over the top in the process. Not that he's going too soft.
Its not a question of being too soft, its about being effective as leader.
Throwing JC out of the party only to have him reinstated shows weakness in terms of leadership strategy. Starmer rushed into expelling JC from the party, his cohorts quickly formed a protective barrier around him and got him admitted back into the party. Although not a member of Labour's parliamentary party he remains a Labour party member and will presumably be free to attend any meeting, vote on internal matters, etc. as any other member. Therefore now JC's potential for mischief making amongst rank and file is enormous and he's virtually untouchable because if Starmer tries to get rid again he will look like he's being vindictive.
From a distance, it looks like Jeremy has 'owd-headed' Starmer, his comments about the result of the investigation into antisemitism, now look to be more than just a knee-jerk response from an ex-leader, it could be argued he played for and got the instant knee-jerk response from the new leader and unlike Sir Keir, Jeremy it would seem is obviously looking to play the long-game.
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Yep, unlike the Brexit deal which will be a three line whip for Labour to approve any Tory deal.
Exactly the reason why he is doing it. Between backing the measures and abstaining from the vote, he has the most to gain politically from abstaining.
78 voted against Boris. Quite a number more than had been expected.
I think he will abstain on that as well
Avoids labour being blamed for a no deal
Also allows him to say a no deal is a disaster but this deal is so bad we can't vote for it... basically ensures boris fully owns the deal and probably ends up with a lot of disgruntled brexiteers who farrage tries to pick off
I think if there was a possibility of the deal not getting through he would support it to avoid no deal but given the government majority I think he will abstain or offer a free vote (but probably abstain)
Could see him going back to the 6 tests he set out when shadow brexit secretary and using those to justify not voting for the deal
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