Thats quite a leap you make there.
You are misunderstanding the point. You can analyse, criticise and refine without the need for a split.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
You are misunderstanding the point. You can analyse, criticise and refine without the need for a split.
In which case, in the short term, the 2019 election was a lose lose situation for Labour due to Brexit.
Leak votes to he Brexit party or to the Lib Dems. Depending on Brexit stance. All while the media ran hatchet jobs on the leadership.
A loss is still a loss no matter how you try to play it out. I've read plenty from here saying that his policies were popular, but there was no trust in his ability to lead or deliver them and that was the biggest factor in the defeats (pretty sizeable defeats as well). To suggest other factors are the reason, is merely avoiding the elephant in the room at the time.
You're right there of course, but I can live in hope.Thats quite a leap you make there.
You are misunderstanding the point. You can analyse, criticise and refine without the need for a split.
Still pandering to the right wing media which is set to throw him under the bus in the near future. He's a disgrace to the Labour party and an appalling politician.
I would not say he was blameless. But the primary reason for loss in confidence was driven by consistent smears coming from inside and outside of the party.
You hope for perpetual Tory rule? Ever increasing poverty, corruption and a race to the bottom on standards of living and industry standards?You're right there of course, but I can live in hope.
Each to their own, I guess.
Wasn't one of Starmers pledges on uniting the party? How many more of these pledges will he break.
If he can't demonstrate trustworthiness in sticking to his pledges now, how can he be trusted as PM?
If he can't demonstrate trustworthiness in sticking to his pledges now, how can he be trusted as PM?
I thought I'd made it clear, no matter, once again, I think Labour can win without the far left, although I'll go further this time, it is more likely to win without the far left.You hope for perpetual Tory rule? Ever increasing poverty, corruption and a race to the bottom on standards of living and industry standards?
Each to their own, I guess.
Each to their own as you say.
Depends what you mean by far-left. If you're talking about people who don't usually vote (or usually vote for smaller Communist/Socialist parties) but gave Corbyn the nod you're probably right.
If by 'far-left', you mean people (especially younger people) who didn't like Labour under Brown or Milliband, but were enthused by the clean break Corbyn represented from austerity, privatisation and corporate influence over policy-making, and by the raft of centre-left social democratic policies that formed the 2017 manifesto, you're absolutely wrong. Without those people Labour don't have a hope, and Starmer could scarcely be doing a better job of dissuading them from voting for him if he tried.
Agree with the first bit
. I think that what a lot of Corbyn supporters are missing is that Corbyn was only popular early on as a leader, when most people knew nothing about him, and yes both he and his policies seemed refreshing, and new for the younger ones. It didn't last, as the results showed. So I get you think I'm absolutely wrong but obviously I don't. And back we go yet again to my main point, I'd like people to have a choice.I think the real problem isn't the left or far left being in or out, the problem is everything is still couched around Jeremy fecking Corbyn. The left aren't wrong when they say the party needs to be far more ambitious in its economic plans, and its climate plans, and that the support for the CHIS bill was procedural bullshit. If the party was currently a sane and cohesive body, a lot of that stuff shouldn't take much to get right at the moment. But because everyone is still acting like morons over the actions of the former leader, everything remains shite.Agree with the first bit
You say that but I'm not convinced that Labour are able to form those positions whilst they remain unable to be stand up for themselves. Since Brown they've been in a permanent state of fear to media reaction rather than managing it.
Biden was the non-left candidate but he was able to do that without disowning the left or being swayed by the media coverage on the right. I do think it's a harder media environment here but that's where Starmer has to be to win.
The constant smears were very damaging for sure, but he wasn't blameless in those, eg liking that antisemitic mural. Also I do feel you're downplaying just how damaging his stance on Brexit was, if you're talking about Labour leaders being untrustworthy.
Said the Russian bot in the DM comment section.
Three months till its reviewed by starmer by which time presumably the independent procedure is set up and the new complaint by the caa is going through so the suspension is extended
Can't see any way this ends without an independent complaints process making the final decision
Sir Kieth's been spinning Judge Nutmeg's 'Wheel of Justice' again.
What about his stance on Brexit? The one which was compromised on to satisfy all factions within the party?
I can assure you it will not be Russian bots wondering how many pledges Starmer is capable of breaking.
His stance cost a lot of votes, turning off leave and remain voters.
I just thought you sounded a bit hysterical with the Starmer comment. You know he's also between a rock and a hard place, as Corbyn was re Brexit.
Starmer's handling of the situation may have been misguided, but it wasn't disingenuous. Not saying either is a trait you look for in a leader, mind...
Starmer's role in Labour's Brexit policy was poor, but let's not rewrite history, Corbyn was party leader throughout and by far the greatest responsibility for that shambles lies with him and McDonnell, and the dishonest and incompetent positions they took.
Quite possibly, but I do remember analysis at the time which suggested that stronger support for Remain was the better electoral strategy, even, conversely, in pro-Leave areas because of the distribution of votes.
At any rate, it doesn't really matter. It's gone now. If Brexit is a success then the Tories will ride the crest of that inexplicable wave anyway, if it's a failure Labour need to be in a position to capitalise, and trying to apologise for not being enthusiastically in favour of such a dog shit idea doesn't help on that front.
What would you class as a Brexit success?
That is right.
It is undoubtedly the case that there is a very strong right wing media basis in this country. But twas ever thus. And that is not going to change any time soon.
So Keir Starmer is going to have to develop a working relationship with all sectors of the media in order to get his messages heard.
And most importantly, to show the media that a Labour government would be good for them and for the country. That is a long term project, but one that has to succeed.
The land of milk and honey that Brexiteers promised with Britain a significantly wealthier, more prosperous and more equal society.
We know it won't happen, but it's hard to think if it did that Labour could realistically lay a glove on those who orchestrated it.
Well I for one am shocked.
Typical tory fat cat ... oh hang on
Keir Starmer driving the factions within Labour apart. At a time when the public want to see a coherent Labour Party hold the government to account.
The election of MP Margaret Beckett as NEC chair is totally against normal protocol.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...porting-labour-faction-stage-nec-mass-walkout
The election of MP Margaret Beckett as NEC chair is totally against normal protocol.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...porting-labour-faction-stage-nec-mass-walkout
Pleased to hear it.
In order for Labour to move forward it is essential that the party follows one path. In my opinion, Starmer is showing strong leadership doing exactly the right thing in order to unify the party. You do it my way or you’re out. The election will not be won now, so it’s important to use the time now to lay the basis for a successful election campaign later down the road.
"Do it my way or you're out" is not unifying the party, but purging the party.
Great leadership would be uniting the various factions to work together. If you lose 100,000+ Labour members who would campaign for you then you are not strengthening for a successful election campaign. As we have seen membership numbers are plummeting.
This is before even looking at the number of votes from the electorate they may lose.
Considering that the UK has deteriorated by almost ever metric under Tory rule over the last 10 years, I fail to understand your desire for perpetual Tory rule.Pleased to hear it.
Each to their own I suppose.
How can I put this diplomatically.. I think that clearly there’s a large fraction of party members that hold controversial views that are not held by the majority of Labour supporters. Nothing stopping them setting up their own party mind.
Nah, you don't fail to understand at all. You know the far left cannot possibly win any election on it's own. Labour without it can and has. You're afraid of people having a choice.Considering that the UK has deteriorated by almost ever metric under Tory rule over the last 10 years, I fail to understand your desire for perpetual Tory rule.
Each to their own I suppose.
I’d be an example of that. Could never countenance voting for labour under Corbyn, didn’t want to vote for Miliband, but between Johnson and Starmer (and a neutered Lib Dem party) I haven’t made my mind up yet.
The perils of grandstanding via Zoom.
A zoom walkout is hilarious. Did they actually leave their chairs or just power down?
What on earth makes you want to consider voting for Boris Johnson? It's been an utter shitshow.
Didn't tweet about Maradona death. The guy is clearly a secret T̶o̶r̶y̶ rugby fan.