Karim Benzema

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I definitely agree with you RDCR07.He'd have been given more time under SAF's guidance and his staff etc....
However his career in Spain isn't finished but it feels it was a step too soon for him to join Real Madrid.
 
sammsky1 said:
Totally untrue. Just tabloid bollox intended to fill column inches.

A very good friend of mine is the dollybird for Madrid TV (very beautiful too!). Speak to her often and she tell me all is well, everybody is aware that Benzema is still a developing prospect and that they intend to put him on the same development track as Raul. She says they view him very much as a long term prospect and that as long as he works hard and shows signs that he is realising his potential, he will be at Madrid for a long time. She also said he is very happy in Madrid, is learning Spanish and bought a villa.

Of course things can change very quickly in football but according to her, we have no chance of getting him on the summer.
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I think if he was playing for us, then he would have been better than he will ever be at Madrid. It is not that they cannot train players. It all boils down to performing on the pitch and you need to play in a lot of matches to perform. Competition is healthy for your team but if you have Higuain, Ronaldo, Raul performing well, then you will only get limited chances. Dont get me wrong. I still think Benz will be a great player. Just watch in another couple of years they are again going to buy another couple of strikers and there will be even more competition than there already is.
 
His talents would undoubtedly be better applied at OT rather than at Madrid. Any team that Ronnie plays for will change their style to accomodate him and players like Benzema, however promising, will have limited chances to excel.
 


This is what this lad is capable of doing. He scored against us with four people on him. I mean we are talking about the best central defensive pairing of Vida and Rio. He also had Brown, Hargo and Scholes closing in on him and he still managed to get a shot off and beat VDS! His finishing ability and his left shot is so powerful, it is not even funny. He is a natural right foot though. When I saw this lad play for Lyon and now for Real, I can see so many similarities in his game to that of Rooney's. I mean a Rooney-Benzema strike force this year could have been as good as Villa-Torres partnership.

 
RDCR07 said:
I think if he was playing for us, then he would have been better than he will ever be at Madrid. It is not that they cannot train players. It all boils down to performing on the pitch and you need to play in a lot of matches to perform. Competition is healthy for your team but if you have Higuain, Ronaldo, Raul performing well, then you will only get limited chances. Dont get me wrong. I still think Benz will be a great player. Just watch in another couple of years they are again going to buy another couple of strikers and there will be even more competition than there already is.
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Oh I have no doubt that, dont get me wrong, that's not the point Im making.

We have become the modern advanced version of what Ajax used to be in the 1980s and early 1990s. SAFs commitment to youth development is now a 20+ year body of work and so within the club we have both the expertise, know how and confidence to know how to make good footballers great. The latest example of that is Darren Fletcher is now without doubt in an elite band of players of his type. His development has been phenomenal and we have been privileged to witness it season by season. There are so many more examples.

But like in the corporate would different clubs have different philosophies to how they staff their organisations. I have worked for Unilever and PepsoCO, two of the most elite companies in their field in the corporate world. Unilever is much like Manchester United, it likes to find its stars early, often straight after University and then heavily invests in ther training and development and in doing so create deep emotional binds with its employees. PepsiCO is completely different, it raids companies like Unilever offering dazzling sums of money and so tries to create a team of world beaters that way. Both companies are hugely successful so both strategies work.

Which of course is why you are right in saying that a player like Benzema should be at Manchester United and not Madrid ... though as I stated in my earlier thread, Madrid too have developed world class players like Cassilas, Ramos and Raul through their own systems so to call them weak in this area would be unfair.

As an aside, it seems that because we have such a strong culture, I think that is one of the key reasons why big acquisitions of developed players find it very hard to succeed; Veron and Berbatov being two prime examples. Other big acquisitions like Rooney and Ferdinand were bought young enough in there careers so that SAF could influence their personalities and ensure they developed in the United way.
 
sammsky1 said:
Which of course is why you are right in saying that a player like Benzema should be at Manchester United and not Madrid ... though as I stated in my earlier thread, Madrid too have developed world class players like Cassilas, Ramos and Raul through their own systems to to call them weak in this area would be unfair.

As an aside, it seems that because we have such a strong culture, I think that is one of the key reasons why big acquisitions of developed players find it very hard to succeed; Veron and Berbatov being two prime examples. Other big acquisitions like Rooney and Ferdinand were bought young enough in there careers so that SAF could influence their personalities and ensure the developed in the United way.
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The thing with Madrid over the years is that they buy superstars and they dont make or mold players into superstars that often as they buy them. I agree with the players you mentioned above are from their academy and I m not saying they cannot train people. But who else do you think in recent years has come out from their academy and excelled? The thing with us, like you said, is that we have good academy players and we buy players who are good and we mold them into superstars - Ronaldo, Rooney.
 
sammsky1 said:
Oh I have no doubt that, dont get me wrong, that's not the point Im making.

We have become the modern advanced version of what Ajax used to be in the 1980s and early 1990s. SAFs commitment to youth development is now a 20+ year body of work and so within the club we have both the expertise, know how and confidence to know how to make good footballers great. The latest example of that is Darren Fletcher is now without doubt in an elite band of players of his type. His development has been phenomenal and we have been privileged to witness it season by season. There are so many more examples.

But like in the corporate would different clubs have different philosophies to how they staff their organisations. I have worked for Unilever and PepsoCO, two of the most elite companies in their field in the corporate world. Unilever is much like Manchester United, it likes to find its stars early, often straight after University and then heavily invests in ther training and development and in doing so create deep emotional binds with its employees. PepsiCO is completely different, it raids companies like Unilever offering dazzling sums of money and so tries to create a team of world beaters that way. Both companies are hugely successful so both strategies work.

Which of course is why you are right in saying that a player like Benzema should be at Manchester United and not Madrid ... though as I stated in my earlier thread, Madrid too have developed world class players like Cassilas, Ramos and Raul through their own systems so to call them weak in this area would be unfair.

As an aside, it seems that because we have such a strong culture, I think that is one of the key reasons why big acquisitions of developed players find it very hard to succeed; Veron and Berbatov being two prime examples. Other big acquisitions like Rooney and Ferdinand were bought young enough in there careers so that SAF could influence their personalities and ensure they developed in the United way.
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Very interesting post there Samm. On the side, funny you should mention PepsiCo.

In 1988 (approx) PepriCo took over 7up in Ireland. At the time my Dad had been marketing manager for 7up in Ireland, England and Scandinavia for a decade and had managed to oust coke! A certain young hot shot Mr. Tony Ilsley came in and fired him.

cnut.
 
gambit28 said:
Don't need him. Don't want him. He had his chance. He could have insisted on us who had been courting him for years, making our interest clear for all to see, who made a bid and classed him as our number 1 target. Instead he choose to go to Madrid who came in for him in the last minute as their second choice after the Villa deal fell through. Again I would prefer us to get a Hamsik or Gourcuff.
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What we need now is a prolific striker who can help Rooney out and can play upfront alone in a 4-5-1 formation and Benz is more than capable of doing that. But this news about him leaving Madrid is I think just bollocks. I mean they are not going to buy him for like 40M and then sell him for 20M. Our immediate need is a striker. I m guessing Owen is going to leave in the summer.

Real Madrid was Benz's boyhood club. Any non-English player who is really good, would MOSTLY and that does not mean everyone will want to play for Real Madrid and Barcelona. And especially the Latin-American players - they just love Barca and Real. If you were given the chance to play for Manchester United or Arsenal, you would definitely pick Manchester United because they are your team - it is as simple as that. So you cannot really blame him for picking Real over us.
 
RDCR07 said:
What we need now is a prolific striker who can help Rooney out and can play upfront alone in a 4-5-1 formation and Benz is more than capable of doing that. But this news about him leaving Madrid is I think just bollocks. I mean they are not going to buy him for like 40M and then sell him for 20M. Our immediate need is a striker. I m guessing Owen is going to leave in the summer.

Real Madrid was Benz's boyhood club. Any non-English player who is really good, would MOSTLY and that does not mean everyone will want to play for Real Madrid and Barcelona. And especially the Latin-American players - they just love Barca and Real. If you were given the chance to play for Manchester United or Arsenal, you would definitely pick Manchester United because they are your team - it is as simple as that. So you cannot really blame him for picking Real over us.
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If we buy a player to play upfront on his own, then what Rooney?

If Rooney progresses the signs he's shown this season by his ablitiy to play upfront on his own then we should look to bring in a midfielder that can get you 15-20 goals a season. That'd be either Hamsik/Gourcuff/Silva whatever..
 
gambit28 said:
Don't need him. Don't want him. He had his chance. He could have insisted on us who had been courting him for years, making our interest clear for all to see, who made a bid and classed him as our number 1 target. Instead he choose to go to Madrid who came in for him in the last minute as their second choice after the Villa deal fell through. Again I would prefer us to get a Hamsik or Gourcuff.
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I agree with this. Added to the way Rooney is shining in his Drogba role. I think it's better for us to find a goal scoring creative midfielder, and a true left winger rather than sign another center forward.
 
CentreForward said:
Second this
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third.

We should be looking at people to add to options in a 433/451 formation. People like Hamsik and Gourcuff as attacking central players. With hargreaves unlikely (imo) to ever make a meaningful return we need to look there too.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I agree with this. Added to the way Rooney is shining in his Drogba role. I think it's better for us to find a goal scoring creative midfielder, and a true left winger rather than sign another center forward.
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Right now David Silva is a possible option. He is great at his position. He could be playmaker/attacking midfielder and his is versatile. He can play on the left and the right and if needed he play in a central role as well. He supports the striker very well and can score goals.
 
slaparse said:
Agreed too, we have plenty of back up options in attack when Rooneys out and they all need to get a chance sometimes.
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Then why do we complain about Berba and Owen not doing their job and why isnt Fergie playing them in big games? It is because no other striker in our team is capable of playing upfront alone in a 4-5-1 formation. Rooney is the only striker who can hold the ball and play upfront alone.
 
R_Nick said:
Fifth. A real world class left winger would be ideal, not sure who would be available in that category though.
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In a 433 Hamsik would be ideal as like Nedved he likes to drift to the left.
 
gambit28 said:
In a 433 Hamsik would be ideal as like Nedved he likes to drift to the left.
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I think Silva is better on the left than Hamsik in a 4-3-3

Rooney

Silva------------------------------------------Nani/Valencia

Carrick---Scholes---Fletch​
 
RDCR07 said:
I think Silva is better on the left than Hamsik in a 4-3-3

Rooney

Silva------------------------------------------Nani/Valencia

Carrick---Scholes---Fletch​
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Wasn't thinking of him in the front three.
 
gambit28 said:
Wasn't thinking of him in the front three.
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Yeah Silva is naturally a left winger/attacking mid and Hamsik is more of a central mid/attacking midfielder. I dont know how good Hamsik will be moving to the left. I have never seen him play there.
 
RDCR07 said:
Yeah Silva is naturally a left winger/attacking mid and Hamsik is more of a central mid/attacking midfielder. I dont know how good Hamsik will be moving to the left. I have never seen him play there.
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He drifts over to the left at times and can ping in some good crosses.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I agree with this. Added to the way Rooney is shining in his Drogba role. I think it's better for us to find a goal scoring creative midfielder, and a true left winger rather than sign another center forward.
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Even though I am a massive Benzema fan, I'm starting to think this as well. It seems Rooney is going to be our main striker now, it does make it hard for us to sign a big-name 'targetman'.

Like Rooney, Benzema can play on the left though so I wouldn't rule it out entirely. They could play together upfront in a 442 against the easier teams, then in our 4231/433 it would be one upfront with the other perhaps coming in off the left.

We definitely do need someone who can do the job when Rooney is injured/rested. I'm not a fan of Berbatov in the 433 formation, and Owen certainly isn't able to do it anymore. So the question is do we trust in Diouf, Macheda or Welbeck being able to step up next season, or do we sign someone else? And if we do buy, is it a squad player just for back-up or is it a big name to play most games?
 
MadDogg said:
Like Rooney, Benzema can play on the left though so I wouldn't rule it out entirely. They could play together upfront in a 442 against the easier teams, then in our 4231/433 it would be one upfront with the other perhaps coming in off the left.

We definitely do need someone who can do the job when Rooney is injured/rested. I'm not a fan of Berbatov in the 433 formation, and Owen certainly isn't able to do it anymore. So the question is do we trust in Diouf, Macheda or Welbeck being able to step up next season, or do we sign someone else? And if we do buy, is it a squad player just for back-up or is it a big name to play most games?
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IF, and it is a big IF, we get Benz then I would prefer Rooney on the left in a 4-4-3 because I dont think Benz is as effective as Rooney on the left.

Benzema

Rooney---------------------------Nani/Valencia​
 
RDCR07 said:
Right now David Silva is a possible option. He is great at his position. He could be playmaker/attacking midfielder and his is versatile. He can play on the left and the right and if needed he play in a central role as well. He supports the striker very well and can score goals.
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I agree. I'd take Silva and Hamsik.
 
MadDogg said:
Even though I am a massive Benzema fan, I'm starting to think this as well. It seems Rooney is going to be our main striker now, it does make it hard for us to sign a big-name 'targetman'.

Like Rooney, Benzema can play on the left though so I wouldn't rule it out entirely.
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I would. Rooney is simply no where near as good on the left as he is down the middle. This season is stone cold proof.

MadDogg said:
We definitely do need someone who can do the job when Rooney is injured/rested. I'm not a fan of Berbatov in the 433 formation, and Owen certainly isn't able to do it anymore. So the question is do we trust in Diouf, Macheda or Welbeck being able to step up next season, or do we sign someone else? And if we do buy, is it a squad player just for back-up or is it a big name to play most games?
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I say we trust Berabtov, Macheda, Diouf and Welbeck. If we want 4-3-3 to work, we need a left winger who can score. It's not the cf's that are the issue. Right now we lack that. We just keep forcing right wingers like Nani and Park to play there. Obertan is the only one I have hopes of becoming truly effective on the left. But it's too early for him to replace Giggs proper.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I would. Rooney is simply no where near as good on the left as he is down the middle. This season is stone cold proof.
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Mind you he still scored twenty goals for us last season. Obviously he is better this year but he CAN play on the left and still score goals for us. But I m sure we are not going to get Benz because if anything Real will sell Higuain first and not Benz. All they care about is the name and status of the player and not his performance. That is how they run that club. The only thing that is keeping Higuain from the transfer list on his team is his scoring ability and once he stops scoring goals, he will be sold.

Plus I think we will also be better of buying Silva because if we sell Berbatov now, we will not make any profit and it is better to keep him than to get a loss from his sale. We need to get either Silva or Hamsik this summer. Silva can replace Giggs on the left or Hamsik can replace Scholes in the middle. I m fine either way.
 
Erictheking7 said:
IF, and it is a big IF, we get Benz then I would prefer Rooney on the left in a 4-4-3 because I dont think Benz is as effective as Rooney on the left.

Benzema

Rooney---------------------------Nani/Valencia​

We would be fecking awesome if we were allowed to play this system :lol:
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I know this is not going to happen, but hypothetically speaking do we look better this way?

Berbatov

Rooney-----------Benzema​
 
Someone like Anelka makes a good back up striker. Chelsea made a wise purchase there.

Rooney is now the main man up front and it's not clear whether Benzema would or could take on the Anelka role. I agree that Giggs and Scholes replacements are the priority. In an ideal world it would be Anderson for Scholes, but somehow I don't see it happening for him anytime soon.
 
surf said:
Someone like Anelka makes a good back up striker. Chelsea made a wise purchase there.

Rooney is now the main man up front and it's not clear whether Benzema would or could take on the Anelka role. I agree that Giggs and Scholes replacements are the priority. In an ideal world it would be Anderson for Scholes, but somehow I don't see it happening for him anytime soon.
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Yeah do you want to pay 120-130 K for a backup striker? Good luck with that.
 
I can't see Benzema leaving Real after just one season, if all the players left after an average/poor first season, we would have seent the likes of Andy Cole leave us, Bergkamp leave Arsenal etc.
What we should concentrate on is the effectiveness of our current succesful formations and look to better and improve that, and that is our 4-3-3, so with Nani and Valencia both on the right, we shold look to a left-sided player (Silva?) and to bolster our midfield. We have Flecther and Hargreaves, if he ever does return, to play on the right, Carrick and Scholes in the middle and Anderson left, although he's looking grim.
A midfielder of defensive or attacking qualities would do me.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I can't see Benzema leaving Real after just one season, if all the players left after an average/poor first season, we would have seent the likes of Andy Cole leave us, Bergkamp leave Arsenal etc.
What we should concentrate on is the effectiveness of our current succesful formations and look to better and improve that, and that is our 4-3-3, so with Nani and Valencia both on the right, we shold look to a left-sided player (Silva?) and to bolster our midfield. We have Flecther and Hargreaves, if he ever does return, to play on the right, Carrick and Scholes in the middle and Anderson left, although he's looking grim.
A midfielder of defensive or attacking qualities would do me.
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we are talking about real though
 
Chapster said:
we are talking about real though
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True, very true but if it's down to the player, I doubt he would want to leave.
Also, as we all know, the managers are more at risk of departure then underperforming players so if a new man came in instead of Pellegrini, be it Mourinho for example, said player can have a new lease of life.
Although it can work the other way and be given the boot....

Personally, I'd love Benzema at United. I think he and Rooney would work very well and we would have a very strong, fast and lethal attack and in the event they wanted to get rid, I reckon we could pick him up for a cut price too which would be nice.
 
To be honest, I think Berbatovs days in our club would be over if we bought a player like Benzema, Villa, Aguero...
 
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