He's nowhere near the names you have mentioned.
Music Kanye West
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
That's an interesting conversation. I'll put Pac aside for now. But one can make a case for him over Dre or Snoop. It's not clear-cut IMO.
Production I guess? Gets some great stuff from people he works with too. Plus he's able to vary his sound a fair bit from album to album.
Not sure he's one for hip hop purists though. In many ways he seems to have more of an indie sensibility.
Very influential either way though and critically adored.
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As someone who has listened to hip hop since the glory days, and continues to do so - Kanye's discography is unique. Every album sounds different to the last while he still manages to maintain the foundations that made him get noticed in the first place.
I think the snobbery of 90s hip-hop is ironic considering hip-hop was built to be controversial, it was meant to push boundaries and experiment.
We idolise figures like NWA, Dr Dre, Eminem & Public Enemy but if they were around in modern society they'd be hated probably more than Kanye is
In fact I doubt they'd even be as popular. Kanye's portrayal in the media is such that people can't separate the art from the artist, like R.N7 said the very mention of his name is enough to get an emotional response out of some people, good or bad, usually bad though.
He makes great music it's that simple. Some don't like it, but most don't like him and because of that they say he sucks.
The most annoying thing about the defence of Kanye criticism is equating the dislike of him as the sole reason for dislike of his music.
If someone thinks U2 are awful, the main argument against that isn't "you think that because Bono is a wanker". It's on a musical basis.
I say that as a Kanye fan.
If someone thinks U2 are awful, the main argument against that isn't "you think that because Bono is a wanker". It's on a musical basis.
I say that as a Kanye fan.
And he tried to leave us for City.
In terms of discography I'd take 'Ye, Dre misses out because he release albums once every 50 years and Snoop whilst a better MC misses out because of quality control.
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My thing is if you don't like Kanye West and think he's a cnut, and makes crap music or whatever, why do you care to let the world know?
I understand it's a forum and people are allowed to have their own opinions and discussions, but it just seems counter-productive to continue to tell people how much you think Kanye sucks.
I don't really listen to rock music but I don't go around their threads saying the Beatles are overrated, and Led Zepplin sucks or whatever. (I don't think these things btw) Because I don't care, but Kanye's a polarising figure and emotes a response almost every time.
As someone who has listened to hip hop since the glory days, and continues to do so - Kanye's discography is unique. Every album sounds different to the last while he still manages to maintain the foundations that made him get noticed in the first place.
I think the snobbery of 90s hip-hop is ironic considering hip-hop was built to be controversial, it was meant to push boundaries and experiment.
We idolise figures like NWA, Dr Dre, Eminem & Public Enemy but if they were around in modern society they'd be hated probably more than Kanye is
Kanye's portrayal in the media is such that people can't separate the art from the artist, like R.N7 said the very mention of his name is enough to get an emotional response out of some people, good or bad, usually bad though.
He makes great music it's that simple. Some don't like it, but most don't like him and because of that they say he sucks.
I don't like him or his music to be honest but accept he must be fantastic at what he does due to his critical acclaim and fan base. I grew up with 90s hip hop so it's mainly nostalgic for me, I don't really listen to it now but still love hearing the odd track. If I've got kisstory on in the car and California Love comes on the volume gets maxed!
Those Yeezy Boost trainers are terrifyingly rubbish:
It was a both a shit show and a shitshow.
However some of the seasons have been pretty good, and he is undoubtedly hugely influential in fashion (arguably the biggest male influence).
Saying that you know people in the fashion industry who hate him is like saying you know people in the music industry who hate him. I mean there are people in the fashion industry who hate Hedi Slimane and no one would question his standing or worth (I can't believe I'm talking about fashion on the Caf. It might be another of my interests but I never thought they would intersect
)EDIT: And the Yeezys are great
I love Pac's hits and largely what he stood for as a person, but I'm of unpopular opinion when it comes to his musical discography, but this isn't the thread for that
What I was going to say, but more concise.
I think Dre is the better producer, in addition to his albums he produced the second NWA album, Snoop's first album, the DOC's album, some cuts off Pac's stuff. Kanye comes close, but Dre shades it for me on that front.
He has the reputation due to the Taylor Swift incident and continues to play on it to get a response by saying contentious things. Whether that's for album sales or not, i don't know. He's like Liam Gallagher with 100x the fame and exposure. Statements like saying you're the greatest rockstar of all time generate a response from everyone - especially a rock fan.
He says some of the most ridiculously hypocritical things regularly.
But that still doesn't justify people coming out the woodwork just to criticise his music or artistic ability purely because they don't like him as a person based on how the media portray him.
The flip side of the argument is that Taylor has also massively benefited from the incident, privately her and Kanye have been very friendly for years now, but publicly she plays the innocent pop star with country music roots. The innocent girl next door, America's Sweetheart etc yet she makes songs about her exes without their permission, but complains if someone even mentions her name.
Meanwhile Kanye is forever seen as the bad guy, due to the media portrayal of him. I don't even like half the stuff he's been doing recently, but he really does get a bad rep considering he's not getting arrested, doing drugs, beating up his wife, abandoning his family etc. He's just an eccentric character with polarising opinions.
Plus, Beyoncé really did deserve that award!
I'll never forgive him for running over my cat.
Ok, so I made that up.
Ok, so I made that up.
He's definitely a hero for winding up 'real hip hop' fans and people who are out of touch with hip hop music and modern music in general.
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Those Yeezy Boost trainers are terrifyingly rubbish:
Saw a signed Stevie G pair of these on ebay, a while back. If I remember correctly I think the final price was around 26 years of misery.
He's a cnut and his music is shit.
I'm quite happy to reiterate this frequently.
I'm quite happy to reiterate this frequently.
He's a great producer.
People just swallow up his attention seeking and faux ego tripping. You just don't give those people attention and they feck off, just like Kardashians, Glaston, etc.
It's the balance that makes this thread great.
I personally can't stand the man. Love his work on Commons Be album though .
My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.
Love the guy and his music but can see why he'd come across toxic, it's the people that call him talentless that I can't understand.
Classic.
As for earlier discussion I'd say he's much better than Snoop and Dre. I really dislike west coast hip hop, though, so have never took to the likes of those guys in comparison to the grittier NY/east coast sound.
I'm no real fan of him as a person but his music is good though I think his last couple of albums have been garbage.
On a musical basis I don't know how anyone could think U2 are awful. Unforgettable Fire and Joshua Tree are outstanding albums. Everything they'd done before those are great too. They got a bit crap afterwards in fairness.
He isn't talentless but he's a shit rapper
I didn't even know that was physically possible.
Everything before Yeezus is good, I like that stuff. In my opinion, Yeezus is laughably bad. I've only listened to TLOP once, first impressions were that it's fairly poor but nowhere near as bad as Yeezus, although I don't think that's possible anyway.
As a person, he's extremely clever in the way that he says controversial things to get ongoing attention, and I think that because he says the things he says (calling himself a genius and whatnot) with so much conviction, many people just automatically believe it to be true. So he's very clever, but it in turn makes him a bit of a twat.
As a person, he's extremely clever in the way that he says controversial things to get ongoing attention, and I think that because he says the things he says (calling himself a genius and whatnot) with so much conviction, many people just automatically believe it to be true. So he's very clever, but it in turn makes him a bit of a twat.
I think he's a great artist and he seems to be a nice guy too despite his media persona
I listened to his recent two albums though and didn't really like them.
I listened to his recent two albums though and didn't really like them.
Indeed.
In fairness though East Coast stuff is just vastly superior. Illmatic and Liquid Swords are two of the greatest albums of all time of any genre
In fairness though East Coast stuff is just vastly superior. Illmatic and Liquid Swords are two of the greatest albums of all time of any genre
Do you like Ice Cube's first album? The production on that was done by Bomb Squad, so it has an East coast feel. Plus at that time Ice Cube was the best MC in the game, bar none.
In fairness though East Coast stuff is just vastly superior. Illmatic and Liquid Swords are two of the greatest albums of all time of any genre
I'm with you, I'm a Nas stan, West Coast stuff I don't respond to as quickly like I do with East Coast stuff, and similarly Down South stuff.
But it depends on the artist too. 3k, Luda, Scarface, Cube etc all have their own unique sounds and are among my favourite rappers.
Indeed, both extremes are weird to me. He's not a shit artist nor is he some sort of musical genius. His fans saying things like people only dislike him because of his persona or being out of touch with hip hop are just as weird as those slating him outright. There's loads to like about his discography but at the same time it falls short of the greatest ones.
I also think majority of his fanbois are from the younger generation.
Is it physically possible not to do that?
I don't care if I'm at a fecking funeral!