Just Stop Oil

[maniak]

They should be locked up as well because they are in on it, trying to create an excuse for being late

I'm all for it. Arrest everyone and oil consumption will plummet.

 

[Samid]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Tropical Bob]

This is bizarre and pretty terrifying. To get five years for discussing the arrangement of a peaceful protest.... This really can't be allowed to stand.

 

[maniak]

This is bizarre and pretty terrifying. To get five years for discussing the arrangement of a peaceful protest.... This really can't be allowed to stand.

It will stand. It will get worse and people will only wake up when it's something that touches their lives.

 

[Solius]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

This is a pretty reductive and shitty way of explaining it I guess.

 

[Solius]

That’s an outrageous sentence in relation to the ‘crime’. That Tory protest bill needs to be ripped up.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Here in The Netherlands we've had these types block highways around the large cities for hours on end so many times in the past year (after they were told they weren't allowed to and had a suitable place appointed to them) and police and justice do practically nothing about it. It's infuriating. The knobs have even brought their kids. 99% of the country is fed up with them. Whether what's happened here is right or not I don't know but it sure is refreshing to see left wing activists punished for breaking the law.

 

[Samid]

This is a pretty reductive and shitty way of explaining it I guess.

Meh. There needs to be severe consequences for this kind of behavior.

'Intricate planning'​

The sentences are the longest since the introduction by the last government of the new law of conspiracy to cause a public nuisance, in a bid to clamp down on disruptive protests.

The court heard the intention was to block most of the M25, preventing traffic from other roads from joining the motorway.

The action resulted in chaos on the M25 over four successive days, causing nearly 51,000 hours of driver delays, the court heard. The protests closed parts of the motorway in Kent, Surrey, Essex and Hertfordshire.

People missed flights, medical appointments and exams. Two lorries collided, and a police motorcyclist came off his bike during one of the protests on 9 November 2022 while trying to bring traffic to a halt in a “rolling road block”.

Prosecutors alleged the protests led to an economic cost of at least £765,000, while the cost to the Metropolitan Police was put at more than £1.1m.

You can't cause damage for several million and get away with a slap on the wrist.

 

[F-Red]

This is bizarre and pretty terrifying. To get five years for discussing the arrangement of a peaceful protest.... This really can't be allowed to stand.

That's quite a simplistic view of the case.

 

[Solius]

Meh. There needs to be severe consequences for this kind of behavior.


You can't cause damage for several million and get away with a slap on the wrist.

5 years is also phenomenally harsh.

 

[Tibs]

I thought the jails were full?

 

[Bobade]

The sentence is an outrage, and the list of items the court weren't allowed to consider seems mad. Basically disregarded motive, mitigating circumstances etc. How can the jury not be allowed to consider evidence of climate change when that was their motivation for the protest?

5 years for a peaceful protest.

 

[dumbo]

Their own children will be cinders and they'll still be more concerned about cracking down on protesters than addressing climate change. Expect this to continue.

 

[Frosty]

The sentence is an outrage, and the list of items the court weren't allowed to consider seems mad. Basically disregarded motive, mitigating circumstances etc. How can the jury not be allowed to consider evidence of climate change when that was their motivation for the protest?

5 years for a peaceful protest.

A woman got a suspended sentence for manslaughter today. It is a bit incongruous.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Well, they wanted to be martyrs so I guess they get what they want.

Be careful what you want though as you just might get it and find out it hurts and you didn't really want it.

 

[Abizzz]

I agree with the judges reasoning:

“And your fanaticism makes you entirely heedless of the rights of your fellow citizens. You have taken it upon yourselves to decide that your fellow citizens must suffer disruption and harm, and how much disruption and harm they must suffer, simply so that you may parade your views.”

These people do not care about the general public at all. They do not care how much effort I put into reducing my carbon emission, or the carbon footprint of the industry I work in. They do not care for medical or social needs of their fellow citizens. 4-5 years is harsh but then they did go for the biggest disruption ever.

 

[NotThatSoph]

So fascinating to watch people endorse fascist anti-protest measures over a traffic queue, the perfect image of a certain strand of liberalism.

 

[Abizzz]

So fascinating to watch people endorse fascist anti-protest measures over a traffic queue, the perfect image of a certain strand of liberalism.

The word fascist loses meaning if you just use it for anything you do not agree with.

 

[NotThatSoph]

The word fascist loses meaning if you just use it for anything you do not agree with.

That's true, which is why no one does that.

In this case "fascist anti-protest measures" was used to describe the state using its monopoly on violence to imprison people for an insanely long time as punishment for civil disobedience.

Pretty standard stuff.

 

[Abizzz]

That's true, which is why no one does that.

In this case "fascist anti-protest measures" was used to describe the state using its monopoly on violence to imprison people for an insanely long time as punishment for civil disobedience.

Pretty standard stuff.

In a world where people are regularly sentenced to 1000+ years in other countries 4-5 years is hardly an insanely long time. Neither is organizing to put the capital into gridlock civil disobedience.

 

[NotThatSoph]

In a world where people are regularly sentenced to 1000+ years in other countries 4-5 years is hardly an insanely long time. Neither is putting the capital into gridlock civil disobedience.

Again, utterly fascinating to watch. Rotten to the core, but what a sight.

 

[Abizzz]

Again, utterly fascinating to watch. Rotten to the core, but what a sight.

You endorse robbing random strangers of their time too. What's the difference? Ahh right, you are the moral compass of the world, and your values are the true ones.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

That's true, which is why no one does that.

In this case "fascist anti-protest measures" was used to describe the state using its monopoly on violence to imprison people for an insanely long time as punishment for civil disobedience.

Pretty standard stuff.

The Fascists and Communists were the first on the streets to disrupt the lives of ordinary people, to force them into actions most people didn't support. Mob rule and intimidation are the bread and butter of autocratic, anti democratic, populists, autocratic organizations.

Cause hardship and get a response then its help, help, I'm being repressed right?

If its worth five years of everyone else life, then why isn't it worth five years of the person who organized the whole thing?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

You endorse robbing random strangers of their time too. What's the difference? Ahh right, you are the moral compass of the world, and your values are the true ones.

Its like a dog barking at its reflection in a mirror because it doesn't know its barking at itself.

 

[NotThatSoph]

The Fascists and Communists were the first on the streets to disrupt the lives of ordinary people, to force them into actions most people didn't support. Mob rule and intimidation are the bread and butter of autocratic, anti democratic, populists, autocratic organizations.

Cause hardship and get a response then its help, help, I'm being repressed right?

If its worth five years of everyone else life, then why isn't it worth five years of the person who organized the whole thing?

I'm having this framed.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

The Fascists and Communists were the first on the streets to disrupt the lives of ordinary people, to force them into actions most people didn't support. Mob rule and intimidation are the bread and butter of autocratic, anti democratic, populists, autocratic organizations.

Cause hardship and get a response then its help, help, I'm being repressed right?

If its worth five years of everyone else life, then why isn't it worth five years of the person who organized the whole thing?

This is ahistorical gibberish.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

I'm having this framed.

Glad I cost you something.

 

[Bert_]

You endorse robbing random strangers of their time too. What's the difference? Ahh right, you are the moral compass of the world, and your values are the true ones.

Bad argument. If there is no difference then why not put them in a cell for the same amount of time they made you late by if you want them to feel your pain? Double it for retribution if you want.

What about people that make you late, but not due to protest? For example, someone who crashes their car through bad driving, which leads to the road being blocked for a similar amount of time? Same outcome = same punishment?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

This is ahistorical gibberish.

The Fascist's didn't hit the streets, the Bolshevik's didn't.? They both didn't court state retaliation as justification for calling the govt repressive and use this to court public opinion?

They are agitators, agitating.

You think their cause is justified so you won't admit it. That's all.

 

[Abizzz]

Bad argument. If there is no difference then why not put them in a cell for the same amount of time they made you late by if you want them to feel your pain? Double it for retribution if you want.

What about people that make you late, but not due to protest? For example, someone who crashes their car through bad driving, which leads to the road being blocked for a similar amount of time? Same outcome = same punishment?

I was being facetious. If one was to go this (cartoonish) route one would have to add up all the time of all the people they kept up though individually, surely? As far as I am aware there are penalties for purposefully or negligently causing traffic accidents.

 

[Bert_]

I was being facetious. If one was to go this (cartoonish) route one would have to add up all the time of all the people they kept up though individually, surely? As far as I am aware there are penalties for purposefully or negligently causing traffic accidents.

Well no one is going to go down the route of adding up every individuals delay into one figure, otherwise you'd have bus/train/airline/shipping companies going bust and transport executives in jail across the board. And there are charges for casusing traffic accidents but even if drunk, maximum you'll get in jail is 6 months unless you directly kill someone whilst doing it. Contrast that to 5 years for doing the same via a protest.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Amnesty International UK:

Amnesty International UK expressed “alarm” over the sentences, calling them “indefensible”.

“These lengthy jail sentences for people seeking climate justice should increase the alarm over the ongoing crackdown against peaceful protest in this country, which violates all our human rights,” Tom Southerden, Amnesty International UK’s law and human rights adviser, said.

“With our overcrowded prison system already described as a ‘ticking time bomb’ by the new lord chancellor, these jail terms are all the more indefensible.

“Today’s draconian sentences and the manner in which the trial was conducted show that the hardline anti-protest approach adopted by the previous government is being emulated by the courts. People should never be punished more harshly for engaging in protest than they would for an equivalent non-protest offence.”

Michel Frost, UN Special Rapporteur on environmental defenders under the Aarhus Convention

Today marks a dark day for peaceful environmental protest, the protection of environmental defenders and indeed anyone concerned with the exercise of their fundamental freedoms in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (“United Kingdom”).

Today, at Southwark Crown Court, Mr. Daniel Shaw was sentenced to four years in prison for his involvement in
peaceful environmental protest. This follows two requests I have made to the government of the United Kingdom to respect Mr. Shaw’s rights under the Aarhus Convention and international human rights law: first in my letter of allegation of 12 March 2024, and second in my public statement of 24 June 2024 at the start of Mr. Shaw and his co-defendants’ criminal trial. It also follows my decision to personally attend the trial of Mr. Shaw on 4 and 5 July 2024, in light of my grave concerns regarding the potential outcome of the trial for Mr. Shaw personally as well as anyone considering joining peaceful protest in the United Kingdom in the future.

The gravity of today’s sentencing decision becomes glaringly obvious when considering the act for which Mr.
Shaw has been sentenced: Mr. Shaw participated in a Zoom call that discussed climate change and the organizing of a peaceful environmental protest. This is the factual basis for Mr. Shaw’s conviction and sentence for “conspiracy to cause a public nuisance”. Put differently, today’s ruling by Judge Hehir at Southwark Crown Court means that, in the United Kingdom, participation in a Zoom call that discusses peaceful protest – in Mr. Shaw’s case, to call for an end to the continued issuance of oil and gas licenses in the United Kingdom – exposes the participants of the call to the risk of a lengthy prison sentence. How a sentence of this magnitude can be either reasonable, proportional or serve a legitimate public purpose is beyond comprehension.

As I have repeatedly reminded the United Kingdom, it is, however, precisely these criteria that need to be met to
show that a sanction imposed on an environmental defender like Mr. Shaw does not amount to penalization in violation of article 3 (8) of the Aarhus Convention. Mr. Shaw’s four-year sentence falls strikingly short of
meeting this standard.

Importantly, this sentence comes after the 113 days in prison on remand that Mr. Shaw has already served and the draconian bail conditions which he was subjected to for over one and a half years while awaiting trial – measures which, on their own, may amount to penalization in violation of article 3 (8) of the Aarhus Convention and already prompted me to raise concerns with the United Kingdom government in March this year.

What happened to Mr. Shaw today is unacceptable, both from a legal and a societal standpoint. A young man has
been sent to prison for four years due to his decision to come together with others to discuss how to prompt
government action through entirely peaceful means to address the serious threats posed by the climate crisis. This sentence should shock the conscience of any member of the public. It should also put all of us on high alert on the state of civic rights and freedoms in the United Kingdom. One must ask what comes next when an individual like Mr. Shaw who sought to exercise his right to peacefully raise his concerns about the existential threats posed by the climate crisis and the failure of his own government to take adequate steps in response is treated like a serious criminal and put behind bars for four years. Rulings like today’s set a very dangerous precedent, not just for environmental protest but any form of peaceful protest that may, at one point or another, not align with the interests of the government of the day.

Given the gravity of the situation, I urge the new United Kingdom government, with absolute urgency and without undo delay, to take all necessary steps to ensure that Mr. Shaw’s sentence is reduced in line with the United Kingdom’s obligations under the Aarhus Convention. I underline once again that, prior to his conviction, Mr. Shaw already spent 113 days in a prison cell on remand for the same Zoom call, in itself a highly draconian and deeply questionable measure against someone who participated in a call on peaceful environmental protest. I will remain deeply engaged with Mr. Shaw’s case until I see concrete action by the United Kingdom to protect Mr. Shaw’s rights as an environmental defender.

 

[Sandikan]

So fascinating to watch people endorse fascist anti-protest measures over a traffic queue, the perfect image of a certain strand of liberalism.

We have the right of protest in this country.
We don't have the right of causing misery and delays to 1,000s of people.

 

[NotThatSoph]

We have the right of protest in this country.
We don't have the right of causing misery and delays to 1,000s of people.

Oh alright, five years in prison then. That's the only alternative I guess.

Holy shit this place is nuts.

 

[Sandikan]

Oh alright, five years in prison then. That's the only alternative I guess.

Holy shit this place is nuts.

I've not made any comment on the sentence.
I've stated what the clear difference is between what is the right people have in this country and what they don't have the right for.

Your depiction of what these people did as causing a "traffic queue" grossly underplays the carnage they cause.

 

[V.O.]

Whether you agree with them or their methods or not, I don't know how anybody can find five year prison sentences for "conspiracy to cause a nuisance" to be anything other than straight up dystopian.

 

[NotThatSoph]

I've not made any comment on the sentence.
I've stated what the clear difference is between what is the right people have in this country and what they don't have the right for.

Your depiction of what these people did as causing a "traffic queue" grossly underplays the carnage they cause.

I called it civil disobedience, which is what it was, so by definition I recognize that it's illegal.

What people should have the right to in any civil society, is to engage in civil disobedience like this without being thrown away behind bars for years and years, which is what this is about. It's absolutely insane, it's authoritarianism on steroids, and anyone defending it should be so ashamed of themselves that even looking in the mirror physically hurts.

This isn't about climate change, or what you think about their cause. No matter what political motivation, no matter the message or cause, no exceptions, five years for planning a protest like this is morally and ideologically bankrupt. Some guy in another post is going on about how the UK has fallen because someone torched a bus. No, the state shitting on basic civil liberties like this, with public support no less, is how things fail.

 

[F-Red]

Whether you agree with them or their methods or not, I don't know how anybody can find five year prison sentences for "conspiracy to cause a nuisance" to be anything other than straight up dystopian.

I'm guessing a few things have happened with sentencing of the judge. The fact that Hallam was arrested three times during the trial for contempt of court including being arrested twice in one day at court (!), suggests that there is little in the way of remorse. A suspended sentence and fine aren't deterrents as the latter usually gets crowdfunding to be paid. There's also the precedent of the Dartford Crossing protestors who got three years, and then whether this was more or less severe than that case, judging by the financial costs incurred probably.

Hallam also represented himself which is bizarre given the deep pocket of Just Stop Oil, which given his late statement to the jury of "I apologise to you if I’m a little bit incoherent, I didn’t actually expect that I was going to get this far." then refused to be cross examined and refused to leave the witness box. He then also comes out with the line of "The corruption of our judges by the carbon state has crossed a line in the sand", it's the sort of tone I'd expect from a Reform supporter.

I'd imagine if it was a more straight forward case, and they had proper legal representation, like the Dartford Crossing you'd probably see 3 years max, which most likely is a 14 month sentence in real terms. However Hallam gave every opportunity for the court to impose a strong sentence at their disposal (maximum 10 years), as it was clear nothing other than a long custodial sentence would be a deterrent for him given the farce of the defence's approach in the trial.

I fully expect an appeal from them, but I'd be surprised if the Supreme Court overturns.

 

[Duafc]

Particularly jarring when you consider the huge swathes of violent, malicious, predatory or downright evil crime that is dealt with so much more lightly each and every day across the UK. Even when the offenders have significant criminal records etc.

Political sentencing, farcical.

 

[Superden]

I look forward to the day when protests break out after brexit is undone, and the daily mail and all other usual suspects call for those protesting to be banged up for years and years...