Is this even real?
He is great. I hope he makes us laugh a lot this season, and that because of Liverpool.Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
He is great. I hope he makes us laugh a lot this season, and that because of Liverpool.I don't think anybody should get ridiculed or anything but it is astounding the amount of Liverpool fans who talks about net spend in a defensive manner. I don't think it is anything wrong with the principles of net spend discussions in general, but I have to admit, it has come to the point where my first association with the word is: Liverpool fans. Certainly not fans of other clubs, because everybody else just isn't obsessed with the concept like them, and doesn't use it as a defensive argument, constantly.
Let's be honest you can't have a sane discussion anymore on here about anything Liverpool and Klopp related . Net spend or not.
It's becoming Rawk esque how every thread just becomes a jibe fest. There really needs to another version of the Rawk meltdown thread that's Liverpool specific or something and have actual discussion elsewhere.
I was being honest, i don't know about that. Maybe you are right if you feel that way. Like a Rawk meltdown thread but not only specific to the forum but to all things Liverpool? Isn't it quicker to just post in the serious Liverpool thread then?
Yeah but even that ends up going the same way. A rawk/all things Liverpool thread would probably be better and then a serious one elsewhere.
Nice that he accepts it.
Oddly enough I feel like both managers actually genuinely respect each other. At the same time I also feel they like to hav banter with each other and honestly I think it’s hilarious. There is no point to look further into their comments tbh, it’s all good fun.
Klopp really likes to be one of those guys, talking out their ass. "You're gonna think I'm racist when i tell you this, Im really not, but just hear me out.."
white text as i know what some are like: Im not saying Klopp's a racist or a pedo
white text as i know what some are like: Im not saying Klopp's a racist or a pedo
The reason why Liverpool fans are defensive about it is because so many other fans are offensive about it.
People want us to prepare the league trophy winning bus before the season starts in order to ridicule us in the likely event that we don't win it and to get us rid of Klopp who they are intimidated by, but here in RedCafe at least, we don't buy that.
Might as well be RAWK but it's actually Liverpool's manager:
Jurgen Klopp said:
Klopp whinging about Ramos and a lack of luck in the final.
He really is the biggest wet blanket in the league.
He really is the biggest wet blanket in the league.
Klopp the whinger said:
He's actually becoming a farce at this point. Bad Luck! Bale was lucky! Ramos was mean! Wah wah wah!
Embarrassing at this point.
Klopp is such a spineless man. He truly is the perfect fit for liverpool. Obsessed with rivals and looking out at other teams but when somebody looks in the goalposts move and he changes his tune. He either is an utter paranoid fool or knows exactly how to play the liverpool fans like a fiddle. Time for trophies
He does like to talk a lot. And many things sounds strangely like made up yet it's true
No, that is not true. I don't know exactly how long it has been a thing, but at least for a decade your fanbase has been relying on talking about net spend as some kind of defence mechanism. I just now recalled a Liverpool fan, a friend of mine joking about Babel being better than Ronaldo. He seemed serious actually but i must remember it wrong. Anyways, it was 08ish and we had just come of age, and I remember that's when he went mental about being a Liverpool fan. Started to hang around the forums and grew so bitter that guy. Anyways, so I found this:
Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« on: November 2, 2009, 09:27:52 AM »
In order to try and dispell a few media fuelled myths that sections of our fanbase seem to have swollowed; here's the full list of players he's signed since he's been at the club (please read the summary below):
2004/05
£2m - Josemi: peanuts and was moved on in a swap for Kromkamp 18 months later
£1.5m - Antonio Nunez: part of the Michael Owen deal and filled a gap for a while. Peanuts.
£10.7m - Xabi Alonso: Massive success and sold for £30m+ in the summer when he wanted to leave
£6m - Luis Garcia: Massive success and sold to Atletico Madrid for £4m
Free - Pelligrino: Stop gap that allowed us to rest Sami for league games, benefitting us massively in Istanbul. Now on the coaching staff.
£6.3m - Fernando Morientes: Pretty much everyone made up when we signed him, top class, but never settled. Sold for £3m to Valencia.
£1m - Scott Carson: One the most highly rated young keepers around. Lost out through injury and signing of Reina when Dudek left the club. Sold for £3.25m.
Total bought: £27.5m
Free - Marcus Babbel: Released to Stuttgart at the end of his career.
£2.5m - Danny Murphy: Xabi Alonso signed to fill the role Murphy had in the side
£8.5m - Michael Owen: Wouldn't sign a new contract and sold before he left on a free. He's done nothing since that is a masterstroke with hindsight.
Free - Stephane Henchoz: Released to Celtic at the end of his career
Total sold: £11m
A total of £16.5m net spend in his first year at the club, with the vast majority of that being spent on Xabi Alonso.
2004/05 net spend: £16.5m
2005/06
£240,000 - Antonio Barragan: Kid for the future. Sold for £675,000 to Deportivo a year later.
Free - Boudewijn Zenden: Signed for nothing and released for nothing. Did a job for us.
£6m - Pepe Reina: In the top 3 or 4 keepers in the world now and still young. One of Rafa's best signings.
£5.6m - Momo Sissoko: Brilliant for a few years, had that eye injury and sold to Juventus when his form dipped for £8.2m. Replaced by Mascherano.
£7m - Peter Crouch: One signing I did question but proved to be a great bit of business. Turned him from a laughing stock into an international. Sold for £11m.
Unkown - Miki Roque: Kid bought for peanuts. Sold again for an unknown amount.
£150,000 - Jack Hobbs: Highly rated 16yr old signed from Lincoln. Didn't progress as hoped and sold to Leicester for a reported £1.5m, although figure not confirmed.
£190,000 Besian Idrizaj: No idea who he is
£1.5m - Mark Gonzales: Cheap player to provide back up for the left wing. Sold for £3.5m to Real Betis.
Exchange - Paul Anderson: Swapped for John Welsh. Sold for £250,000.
Exchange - Jan Kromkamp: Swapped for Josemi. Later sold for £1.75m
£5.8m - Daniel Agger: Blighted by injuries but potentially top class and great signing for the money.
£250,000 - David Martin: Young reserve keeper
Free - Robbie Fowler: Pay as you play deal and no risk involved. Scored a few goals. Released in the summer.
Total bought: £26.73
Free - Vladimir Smicer: Out of contract and released. Played a small part in Istanbul.
£3.5m - El Hadji Diouf: The best £3.5m Rafa has ever recieved.
Free - Pellegrino: Filled the gap in the last 5 months of the previous season, not good enough and released.
£2m - Alou Diarra: Sold for £2m. One of Houllier's buys.
£2m - Antonio Nunez: Bought for £1.5m and now sold for £2m when didn't work out.
£6.5m - Milan Baros: A Houllier signing sold at a profit. He's done nothing since.
Exchange - John Welsh: Swapped for Paul Anderson
Exchange - Josemi: Swapped for Kronkamp.
Total sold: £14m
2005/06 net spend: £12.73m
2006/07
£6m - Craig Bellamy: Good signing and later sold for £7.5m to fund Torres deal.
£2m - Gabriel Palletta: Played a few league cup games, not good enough and sold for £1.2m
Free - Fabio Aurelio: Very injury prone but a good player when fit. Great signing for nothing.
£6.7m - Jermaine Pennant: Second choice after missing out on Alves. Ran his contract down and released. Attitude stank.
£9m - Dirk Kuyt: Has his critics, but has been brilliant for the money. 15 goals last season from wide and vital to the way we play. Ultimate pro. Great signing.
£200,000 - Nabil El Zhar: Few cameos last season and improving. Injured now. Promising still. Peanuts.
£750,000 - Astrit Ajdarevic: No idea who he is, and released on a free to Leicester.
Loan - Daniele Padelli: Reserve keeper, made one appearance and never seen again.
Undisclosed - Jordy Brouwer: Young reserve.
£2.5m - Alvaro Arbeloa: Bargain signing, great service for a few years and sold for £3.5m when running his contract down.
Loan - Javier Mascherano: Rescued from West Ham, now one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and will probably be sold to Barca this summer for a massive profit. Paid £18.6m for him a year later at end of loan deal.
Total bought: £27.15m
£200,000 - Zak Whitbread: Youngster
Undisclosed - Bruno Cheyrou: Houllier flopped, sold for a reported £1.5m.
£3m - Fernando Morientes: Didn't work out. Cut his losses.
Free - Didi Hamann: Great servant, released at the end of his career
£675,000 - Antonio Barragan: Paid £240,000 for him.
£2m - Djimi Traore: Houllier signing and daylight robbery getting £2m for him
£500,000 - Neil Mellor: Signed as a kid and did a job for a while. Not good enough and released.
£1.75m - Jan Kromkamp: Nunez bought for £2m, swapped for him, who then sold for £1.75m. Stop gaps at minimal expense.
£525,000 - Darren Potter: Acadamy lad, not good enough and robbery getting that much for him.
£1.5m - Steven Warnock: Probably sold to cheap and looks a mistake with hindsight. Good squad player.
Free - Salif Diao: The clearout of Houllier's flops continues.
Total sold: £10.15m
2006/07 net spend: £17m
2007/08
£5m - Lucas Leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
Undisclosed - Krisztian Nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in Athens.
£270,000 - Mikel San Jose Dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m - Sebastian Leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
£20.2m - Fernando Torres: Bargain of the century
Free - Andriy Voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in Germany, garbage over here.
£5m - Yossi Benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
£11.5m - Ryan Babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he'd turn out. Still got potential but he can't be arsed.
Undisclosed - Charles Itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m - Emiliano Insua: Youngster who is now a full Argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
£6.5m - Martin Skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
£18.6m - Javier Mascherano: Completion of loan deal
Total bought: £70.7m
£2.7m – Florent Simana-Pongolle: Houllier youngster sold wanting first team football.
£100,000 – Daniel O’Donnell: Kid sold
Free – Jerzy Dudek: Released at end of contract
Free - Zenden: Released at end of contract
Free – Robbie Fowler: Released at end of contract
£4m – Luis Garcia: Wanted to return to Spain. Great service.
£6m – Djibril Cisse: Houllier signing sold to part fund Torres deal.
£7.5m – Craig Bellamy: Sold at profit to part fund Torres deal
£3.5m – Mark Gonzales: Signed for £1.5m and sold when didn’t work out.
£1.2m – Gabriel Palletta: Bought for £2m but never worked out. Young defender.
£3.5m – Chris Kirkland: Houllier signing. Injury prone and wanted first team football.
£8.2m – Momo Sissoko: Great signing, good service, sold when lost his form at a profit.
Total sold: £36.7m
2007/08 net spend: £34m
2008/09
Free – Philip Degen: Garbage, but free.
£7m - Andrea Dossena: Italian international left back. Hasn’t settled. Bad signing.
£3.5m – Diego Cavalieri: Reserve keeper. Only played league cup games so far.
£1.5m – David N’gog: Young French striker. Promising.
£19m – Robbie Keane: Everyone made up when we signed him. Didn’t work out and sold back to Spurs for £16m.
£8m - Albert Riera: Spanish international. Started well but jury still out.
Total bought: £39m
£4m – John Arne Riise: Good servant but form tailed off. Snapped their hands off at £4m.
Free – Harry Kewell: Harry who?
Undisclosed – Anthony Le Tallec: Houllier youngster finally released. Fee not known.
£11m – Peter Crouch: Laughing stock bought for £7m. Great signing. Wanted first team football.
£2.25m – Danny Guthrie: Youngster from Acadamy thought not good enough.
£3.25m – Scott Carson: Injury prone and Reina now first choice. Sold at profit.
Undisclosed – Steve Finnan: Sold for a fee believed to be £1m
£16m – Robbie Keane: Didn’t work out.
Undisclosed – Jack Hobbs: Young defender that didn’t progress. Sold for believed to £1.5m.
Total sold: £36.5m
2008/09 net spend: £2.5m
2009/10
£17.5m – Glen Johnson: Big fee, but has been brilliant so far.
£17.1m - Alberto Aquilani: Injured so far but meant to be a class act. Highly rated in Italy.
£2m – Sotirios Kyrgiakos: Last minute signing to fill Hyypia’s shoes. Only money we had to spend.
£160,000 – Daniel Ayala: Young defender, played a few times this season and looked promising.
Total bought: £36.76m
£250,000 – Paul Anderson: Youngster that didn’t progess.
Free – Jermaine Pennant: Out of contract. Poor signing.
Free – Miki Roque: No idea who he is. Bought for peanuts.
£3m – Sebastian Leto: Signed for £1.8m but didn’t get a work permit. Had to sell.
£3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa: Wanted to leave and out of contract in the summer.
£30m – Xabi Alonso: Wanted to leave. Bought for £10.7m. Great signing.
Total sold: £36.75m
2009/10 net spend: £10,000
Total Players Bought: £228,976,000
Total Players Sold: £145,100,000
Total Net Spend: £83,876,000
So, that’s a total spend of just over £83m in 5 years at the club. An average of £16.6m a year.
The vast majority of his signings have been sold at profit, or if still at the club, are worth a lot more than we paid for them. Exceptions being Babel and Dossena, but we’ll still get decent fees for them when sold as they’re full internationals.
A lot of the signings above have been stepping stones in rebuilding the squad, gradually improving it by replacing players with better ones. Our league positions over the past 5 years and the improvement in our league positions and points totals show the progression.
2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts
Is it any coincidence that the progression seems to have stopped this summer? Look at the transfer activity above for this year and it might explain why.
We have a wage bill that is the 5th highest in the league. We can’t afford to pay players £70,000 to be sat on the bench like United and Chelsea can.
Rafa Benitez’ record with signings at the top end of the market is nothing short of brilliant. Robbie Keane being the only flop, but he was sold 6 months later and only a small financial hit taken on that mistake. Rick Parry agreed the fee for buying him in the first place, and common knowledge Rafa wasn’t happy with it; feeling it was far too high.
Where has this myth come from that he’s wasted money on shite players? Have a look through the lists above and try to point them out. There isn’t many.
The ones that haven’t worked out he’s moved on, and not very often has he made a financial loss on them.
The squad is now worth a hell of a lot more than the one he inherited, and that £83m net spend over 5 years is easily offset by the increased value of the squad. He’d recoup nearly all of that through the sale of Torres alone!
He’s worked absolute wonders with the money he’s had to spend. Then take into account the massive amounts of money he’s self generated by reaching the latter stages of the CL every season. Two final appearances, one win. That £83m he’s spent he’s earned the right to spend.
And when comparing it to what United have spent in the same period is flawed, as they already had a title winning squad and all the foundations in place. They weren’t rebuilding from scratch like we were. It also doesn’t take into account their massive wage bill.
When comparing to Chelsea, they spent all their money before Rafa came to the club and just topping up an already established squad.
Man City have spent more than double in the past 12 months than Rafa Benitez has in his 5 year reign.
Do some people still want to get rid of him? If so, you’ve been listening to Martin Tyler's Monkey and the hairy-handed halfwit for too much and unable to look at the facts yourself to form an opinion.
Every manager makes tactical mistakes. Every manager makes mistakes in the transfer market. Despite what the press seem to think; Rafael Benitez appears to make less mistakes than most.
We’re expected to win the league and European Cup on a budget and wage bill that is entitled to finish 4th or 5th in the league. We’ve been overachieving under Rafael Benitez, not underachieving.
I’m not even going to mention the environment he’s working in under them two clowns.
You’ll only miss him when he’s gone….
And for the last part you wrote, isn't that just football fans having a go? To be completely fair, all top teams that spend a lot of new money, hell even West Ham now too, they will have to face more pressure to deliver and improve. From media, fans, pundits because the owners also takes notice of this. They expect some return of boosting a project, no? If they belive in something and tries it, but it doesn't work they will change something or cut the money and pull out. It isn't very complicated
Klopp fits the perfectly delusion mindset that Liverpool always have had for their managers. Must be their prime criterion
I've been reading your convos with the Liverpool fans. I mean wtf
, Klopp is a face of Liverpool. Not much difference in talking about him and the current LiverpoolI've been reading your convos with the Liverpool fans. I mean wtf
Apparently its different. One of the weirdest argument I had on caf.
Hope he implodes with Liverpool just like he did with Dortmund in 14/15.
I mentioned it in another thread, the net spend obsession began with benitez. Liverpool fans generally are a strange breed i do find it really intriguing. Its a generalisation based on nothing but observation but i dont think theres a collective of fans in the world who seem to so readily fall onto the exact same wavelength when a manager or player they like is involved. They become immune to anything. Some of the debacles in recent years have just driven them an irrational mind boggling close mindedness- especially around benitez Meltdown and expenditure and the dalglish and suarez horror shows. Klopp has them suspended on strings like hypnotized followers. Its such an intense fervour with liverpool fans and the only thing i can think that explains it is the speed of their decline coinciding with fergusons dominance.
Its been really surprising to encounter a couple of reasonable ones here so long may it continue, though when the season starts it all might change
Its been really surprising to encounter a couple of reasonable ones here so long may it continue, though when the season starts it all might change
Christ he's a proper Liverpool manager. Delusional and conspiracy king. Are we sure he's not on RAWK?
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I hardly think its unfortunate we are "finding this out". We're happy that despite losing our best player to Barcelona mid way through last season, the club is now well run and the sale was made at a price favourable to Liverpool and more importantly, the club, by means of securing Champions League qualification, playing attractive football, having a desirable manager and reaching the CL final are now able to invest the proceeds of funds raised into quality additions, rather than the rubbish we had to settle for in prior seasons (Suarez sale, for example). Obviously, higher quality players cost more, especially in the current inflationary environment. Our situation has improved, and Klopp has changed his opinion and strategy in order to better suit our circumstances. Still agree his comments were hypocritical, but I honestly don't think any Liverpool fan actually cares. The guy is moving our club forward, and its plain to see for all Liverpool fans.
That part is odd because it is in fact the opposite. Net spend shows how FSG have, up until now not been spending anywhere near enough on players, gross spend be damned. If anything, it should be an instrument of criticism against the club.
I think its been used in the past to argue how we can't compete with you financially, but there is not much to argue there really - you are obviously significantly wealthier. What would be nice to find out is how competitive we can be if we spend closer to the limit of our means rather than turning profits.
You'd think Arsenal has shown the folly of competing for the net spend trophy.
Yes, that's the RAWK meltdown thread.
What came first, the deluded Liverpool fan or every one else laughing at them?
If Klopp doesn't watch out he's going to end up living in a hotel, trading on past glories and railing against a world that's left him behind.
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If you read your 'Spoiler', you'll see it's fans being aware of the club's financial shortcomings, and trying to make sense to it. 'We can’t afford to pay players £70,000 to be sat on the bench like United and Chelsea can.' I can't see anything weird to that. It's being aware of your surroundings.
I don't want Klopp to leave if he doesn't win the league, because he doesn't play FIFA, he plays with other teams which also evolve and spend a lot of money. That's why spending and net spending is important. You see what other teams do with the money and the results on their squads.
Do you think that Liverpool fans want to protect something of no value? Maybe some are hyperbolic, maybe even Liverpool fans are more hyperbolic than other fans (that's called passion, you should try it sometime), but they won't protect a no-hope. Klopp has put us two steps above, are you kidding me? Demanding his sacking just because he failed to win the league against the Manchester clubs would be shooting our collective feet.
Fans always have a go, yes, and that's why you'll see Liverpool fans having a counter-go, with net spend and whatever. Yes, fans expect a return, but if you ask me, I've already seen a return from Klopp to keep me for a few years, with or without the league. Then, we'll see.
When everybody is spending money in the Premier League, it's almost like nobody is. Klopp had a return, and what didn't work he did pull out, and put his money elsewhere. It's no complicated at all, and that's why we had a Champions League final playing attractive football, and then such a good window (with only a couple of dark spots far from being perfect). It's really simple. We like Klopp.
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I won't forget the crying you shed in the Klopp thread when he came to Liverpool, nor the countless admitions that you'd prefer him to Mourinho, or anybody for that matter, for managing your club.
It's a man that's helping to get Liverpool back on the map, and you don't like that. That's OK, but since you keep laughing after that dreadful year Mourinho had with your club, you'll eventually realize the joke's on you pal.
Liverpool fans have been deluded for years and everyone has been laughing at them for years.
What on earth are you on about?
Dreadful year which resulted in us finishing 2nd with our highest points tally since Fergie retired and well above you lot?
The jokes on the Liverpool fans for getting the hopes up and thinking Klopp is the second coming of Christ. Just make sure you lot are this active during the season when the inevitable scouse meltdown happens when you realise you're miles off winning the title.
Indeed. It is bafflingApparently its different. One of the weirdest argument I had on caf.
I think it’s harder to build a title winning squad using money from players leaving rather than money from your owners pocket.
The reason being is that you have to replace the players you’ve lost as well as trying to add more quality on top. Replacing Coutinho and trying to strengthen other areas of the side all in one summer isn’t easy even with £143 million.
We still haven’t replaced him and because of this most Liverpool fans are very worried about our lack of depth upfront.
If we were City we could comfortably spend £150 million every summer without having to replace any key players which makes it easier to build a strong squad. It’s not one step forward two steps back as it often is with us.
The reason being is that you have to replace the players you’ve lost as well as trying to add more quality on top. Replacing Coutinho and trying to strengthen other areas of the side all in one summer isn’t easy even with £143 million.
We still haven’t replaced him and because of this most Liverpool fans are very worried about our lack of depth upfront.
If we were City we could comfortably spend £150 million every summer without having to replace any key players which makes it easier to build a strong squad. It’s not one step forward two steps back as it often is with us.
Don't worry, I'm reading the Mourinho thread as well. I can see you all worship him for tallying points or whatever. Klopp is simply the best we could have.
Now, I think we've established that for the Liverpool fan, the pressure's off for winning the title, and I think for you, this counts as worshipping him. But then scouse meltdown will happen when we realise we are miles from winning the title? I thought we already think that we are miles off? What's the Man Utd fan narrative here? Let's get it straight here... do we expect winning the league, or not?
Or do you simply want us to expect winning the league in order to propagate the scouse boom/bust cycle as something even remotely funny?
Your jokes are being phased out, just like Mourinho's tactics. It's all in sync.
I don't see any fan laughing but United fans. You are probably in for a hard ride the coming years, you shouldn't be laughing at anything.
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The arrogance in this post is incredible.
Klopp hasn't won a meaningful trophy since 2012 and he's the best manager you could have? And Mourinho is the one is labelled past it.
With the money you've spent this summer any sensible fan would be saying that you have to mount a serious title challenge this season or at least win a trophy but who am I kidding, no doubt the Liverpool fanbase will be happy with clinching 4th and they'll chalk it down as another season of progress and next will be your season etc.EDIT: Good riddance to that guy.
"It's not as if i wake up in the morning and think Ramos!"
Sounds like that's exactly what you do chief
Sounds like that's exactly what you do chief
Klopp hasn't won a meaningful trophy since 2012 and he's the best manager you could have? And Mourinho is the one is labelled past it.
EDIT: Good riddance to that guy.
Absolutely not in fairness
We have acquired some top top players since Klopp has arrived
This Window particularly has been excellent and we have really strengthened
I fully expect to see with what we have spent (or more so the quality of players we've bought), a Title challenge, clinching 4th and zero domestic trophies will be a disappointment, that would basically mean no League improvement after spending what? £170m this window
I don't "expect" us to win the Title, we certainly "could", but we should definitely be Challenging City, and yourselves for it this season