Heavy metal football.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Heavy metal football.
There’s something inherently punchable about his face. He reminds me of one of those cool dads who embarrassed his kids or one of those moochers in a bar who has no mates and ends up trying to join in with everyone else. Cringe. Man in 50s wearing baseball cap backwards. Cringe!
1. No clue how to shut down games when he needs to
2. Players are tired 60 mins in
Everyone's blaming Karius for Saturday's final but the real blame lies with Klopp. How long has the world known Liverpool don't have a keeper worthy of the name but what did he do about it? Absolutely nothing!
Saturday's failure is on him, no one else.
Saturday's failure is on him, no one else.
It's just how they are. Mawkish and overly sentimental.
It's why Klopp is the perfect manager for them, they're an overly emotional set of fans so a manager that will scream and shout and sing songs with them, the day after he loses his 6th final in a row, is right up their street.
tbf. After losing five previous finals, I am pretty sure he has got used to the disappointment and would have recovered faster and faster with each passing loss. So Klopp's basic attitude is -- getting to the Final is now a win in itself.
I think the real pattern is that his teams start strongly for like the first 20 minutes in those games, the rest is much more open. In the second final against Bayern the game was a relatively even affair, where he would've actually been up a goal relatively late into the game if goal line technology had been implemented yet.
Against Wolfsburg they mostly dominated the match, missed their chances in the opening and fell apart for like 10 minutes after their keeper blundered on a free kick and later didn't have the ability to cut Wolfsburg open. But those were problems they had all season, a season in which they were dysfunctional all around and Klopp probably would've been sacked in late fall if he had not built up a lot of trust and patience already and in the end he still resigned.
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Spot on. "Kids, I'm bicycling with no helmet.. Cool enough for ya? Ar-harhar-harrr"
I agree. But let's hope Klopp is such a cool and good guy that he'll sympathize so much and put Karius (The new De Gea™) between the posts again next season.
Not sure what their transfer-budget is, but if 30-40m is what later in the transfer-window separates them from buying Allison or Oblak, then the money spent on Fabinho is spent badly. I think they'll get a stable one soon enough though.
Despite what the reactionaries in the Fabinho thread think, Fabinho is most likely a long term transfer. Scouted several months ago and a deal worked on for multiple months. So Karius' blunders this season have been like a small flame that has turned into a forest fire.
It's very Klopp like actually, paper over the cracks with pashun and desire, then come crashing down like they do during a game.
Hmmm
His teams always start strongly because there's no game management there. They come flying out of the blocks, hoping to be 2 or 3 up by half-time, or by the hour mark by the very latest, and hope that they can hold on until full-time. It's why they seem to capitulate from 2 or 3 up with relative frequency, and why they end up hanging on for narrow wins when they should have been blowing teams away, like they did when they ended City's run of unbeaten games and scraped past Roma in the CL.
You've just said there that they mostly dominated against Wolfsburg but didn't have the ability to cut them open, which seems a bit contradictory. Dortmund had more possession, but fewer shots, fewer shots on target, and ultimately and most importantly, two fewer goals. Wolfsburg, at 3-1 up by half-time, were probably relatively content to let Dormund have the ball, because as you said, they didn't have the ability to cut them open.
The pattern is that they try and blow teams away in the early stages, leaving them utterly gassed for the closing stages. Against poor quality teams, he can often afford to only be 1 or 2 up, but against better teams, who have the players to counter the early onslaught, more often than not, he'll come up short.
Also, Salah.
It’s a myth that cup finals are a lottery. How many CL finals have Real ever lost? Or Mourinho in any cup final? Or Sir Alex?
To say Cup finals are a lottery is ridiculous.
My point is that Wolfsburg doesn't fit into your fitness narrative, because Dortmund kept up with them and had more of the ball over the 90 minutes, they just lacked the tools/players to convert that possession into something more. They also kept up with Bayern/City in terms of fitness in the domestic cup finals or they wouldn't have made it into extra time. And in both CL finals they actually had enough gas in the tank to equalize midway into the second half, which doesn't quite fit with the fatigued after 20 minutes argument you propose to link Wolfsburg defeat to energy levels.
The real problem is player quality and to some degree philosophy, his CM can neither control a game vs the likes of Bayern or Real nor is his team built to absorb pressure all game long against these teams.
So I think he tries to shock opposition early before they can take momentum, because once top teams have wrestled control you might not be able to take it back.
Cup finals are a what now?
Exactly. People keep saying ‘anything can happen in a cup final’ and ‘cup finals are a lottery’
Nothing can be further from the truth
To be fair most big games with Klopp involved are a lottery. It's just a game of unforced errors and chasing of second balls. It's a bit like pinball really.
Except for cup finals where he almost always loses
Hey hey.. even a shit keeper isnt expected to make 2 schoolboy error in a match. He's probably isnt a worldie but he should do the job if he dont fumble those 2 stupid goals.
Well playedCould you not say that's normal since your chances of winnin the lottery are very slim?
In that case, cup finals with Klopp are like a lottery, you very rarely win.
Could you not say that's normal since your chances of winnin the lottery are very slim?
Cup finals with great managers like Jose on the other hand, are nothing like a lottery. You expect to win and are shocked when you don’t.
I had quite a posh dark blue Denver Broncos baseball cap I used to occasionally wear the wrong way about.
I did look like an absolute bell-end doing it though, tbf.
I did look like an absolute bell-end doing it though, tbf.
Mourinho has won 12 out 15 cup finals he has managed. 80% win rate
Klopp has won 1 out of 7 cup finals he has managed. 14% win rate
Exactly, I’m sure if you look up Sir Alex, his record was amazing too.Mourinho has won 12 out 15 cup finals he has managed. 80% win rate
Klopp has won 1 out of 7 cup finals he has managed. 14% win rate
Some manager just has ‘it’, most don’t
I never said they were knackered after 20 minutes against Wolfsburg, but I'm more than willing to believe that declining energy levels after an unsuccessful opening flurry that actually saw them enter half-time two goals down had more to do with their inability to score any more than a lack of quality, when the attack in question contained Aubamenyang, Kagawa, Reus and Mkhitaryan, with Gundogan behind. You're just being deliberately obtuse if you genuinely believe that I think they were exhausted after 20 minutes.
You seem to be looking at this from a very black and white perspective. I'm not saying that as soon as the game reaches a certain point, Klopp's players are gassed and can't run anymore, I'm saying there's a pattern, heavily contributed to by the high-energy style his teams play, that sees them lose games late on, or in the specific case of Wolfsburg, have no way back into it. This applies to conceding two in extra-time, to scoring just one penalty in the shoot-out, and to conceding further goals after equalising, because all of them ultimately lead to his sides losing the games.
He had the better team against Wolfsburg, and arguably Sevilla, and still lost both of those finals, so the issue isn't wholly player quality. The common thread is conceding goals from the second-half onward without offering the same in response. This is also a phenomenon not exclusive to cup finals, but to the matches his teams play throughout the course of a season.
Klopp's tactic of shocking the opposition with early goals isn't exclusive to when he plays "better" teams either, so that point is somewhat moot.
SAF has won 20 out of 27 cup finals he has managed. 74% win rate. Feck me what a manager.
The greatest of all time. No question about it.
Dortmund were a dysfunctional mess the season they played Wolfsburg, they were at the bottom of the table halfway through the season, most of the players you mentioned were out of shape, Mkhitaryan in particular and so they finished the league season as 7th, with 47 goals scored (compared to 80 the year before that) and with Klopp resigning in spring to give the team and club a new impulse. Meanwhile Wolfsburg finished second, having players like Dost, de Bruyne and Perisic all in great shape.
You also conveniently ignore other matches that don't support your theory, like for example Klopp's late comebacks against Malaga and Dortmund or him beating Bayern on penalties (after comong back in the second half) to make it into the final against Wolfsburg in the first place.
Even in the final against Madrid it was not exactly like his team just keeled over at some point, Real scored through two own goals and Bale scoring the goal of his career, not through some barrage of chances, iirc xG even favoured Liverpool in the end.
And don't you think it's a bit naive to believe that a top coach like Kopp just forgets that a match lasts 90 minutes and not 20 over and over again?
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Keita, Fabinho, potentially Fekir and maybe a new GK. Perhaps that would be enough for Klopp to reach the treble of CL, FA Cup and LC finals and lose all three next season.
Let’s hope not. Liverpool in CL finals really ages me.Keita, Fabinho, potentially Fekir and maybe a new GK. Perhaps that would be enough for Klopp to reach the treble of CL, FA Cup and LC finals and lose all three next season.
Don't want to spoil the party (i lmao reading through the pages of this thread since last Saturday) but the fact that i can see what how his signings are going to improve and/or add depth to his Liverpool side next season while i can't quite understand how Fred is going to help us solve our own problems is a bit concerning at times, i have to admit.
Of course there are exceptions, but the general trend, and this is something that has shown itself even in victory (see City in the PL and Roma second leg), and in draws and defeats to the likes of Bournemouth, is that his teams are noticeably weaker in the later stages of a game. In some games they look more vulnerable than others, but the trend remains.
I literally said in the post you quoted that it's not as if his players hit a certain point in the game and run out of steam, yet you're responding to me as if that's what I said.
Look, you're clearly not going to agree here, so crack on mate. I've not said anything remotely controversial and it's been one of the main criticisms Klopp's had to face since he came to prominence, and there's also a wealth of evidence supporting it, but the xG favoured Liverpool in the CL final, so feck it, no issues there at all, it's just that his players are worse, except when they aren't, and then it's because they were out of shape even though they only lost 3 of the 18 domestic fixtures they played from the 7th February until the cup final, winning 11 of them, and none of this applies to the Sevilla final that he also lost.
Spurs game with the Kane penalties was a big example of Liverpool dying on their feet. They managed to grab a late goal with Salah’s brilliance but their midfield was sinking deeper and deeper and could no longer keep up with Spurs after they had spent the first half pressing very hard.
Im sorry, but its a flaw in Klopp’s set up.
Im sorry, but its a flaw in Klopp’s set up.
But those weren't his first mistakes for Liverpool. If Utd had 2 keepers who kept making mistakes and Mourinho just ignored it what would you be saying?
@Alex99
There has been statistical analysis done on this and you are correct. Liverpool are weak at closing out games while City and United are efficient at closing out games.
In the final 15 minutes (scored/conceded):
City: 25/5
Utd: 18/4
Liv: 17/12
In the 2nd half of games (scored/conceded):
City: 61/15
Utd: 39/14
Liv: 49/21
http://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=england&tid=k
There has been statistical analysis done on this and you are correct. Liverpool are weak at closing out games while City and United are efficient at closing out games.
In the final 15 minutes (scored/conceded):
City: 25/5
Utd: 18/4
Liv: 17/12
In the 2nd half of games (scored/conceded):
City: 61/15
Utd: 39/14
Liv: 49/21
http://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=england&tid=k
He's perfect for them.
The most detestable and deluded manager in football. Specialist in failure in finals.