Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

So let's check the stats - Liverpool have played 33 matches:

32: Clyne
31: Milner, Wijnaldum, Firmino
29: Origi
27: Mane (he missed 4 matches for ANC I think), Lallana, Can
26: Coutinho
24: Henderson, Lovren, Matip
23: Mignolet (and he was dropped not injured)

So Liverpool have 12 outfield players who at least have been involved in 24/33 matches (some could have been on the bench without being substituted on)

I wonder which injuries he felt cost them that much ?
 
lysglimt said:
So let's check the stats - Liverpool have played 33 matches:

32: Clyne
31: Milner, Wijnaldum, Firmino
29: Origi
27: Mane (he missed 4 matches for ANC I think), Lallana, Can
26: Coutinho
24: Henderson, Lovren, Matip
23: Mignolet (and he was dropped not injured)

So Liverpool have 12 outfield players who at least have been involved in 24/33 matches (some could have been on the bench without being substituted on)

I wonder which injuries he felt cost them that much ?
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Are you sure that's correct? I'm fairly confident that Origi hasn't played 29 out of our 33 league games.
 
lysglimt said:
So let's check the stats - Liverpool have played 33 matches:

32: Clyne
31: Milner, Wijnaldum, Firmino
29: Origi
27: Mane (he missed 4 matches for ANC I think), Lallana, Can
26: Coutinho
24: Henderson, Lovren, Matip
23: Mignolet (and he was dropped not injured)

So Liverpool have 12 outfield players who at least have been involved in 24/33 matches (some could have been on the bench without being substituted on)

I wonder which injuries he felt cost them that much ?
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Probably Mane being away for January, our captain missing for most of the games in 2017 and our best defender not able to play due to multiple injuries and the Cameroon debacle during the AFCON. Lallana out for an extended period of time is a huge blow as well.
 
Klopper76 said:
Are you sure that's correct? I'm fairly confident that Origi hasn't played 29 out of our 33 league games.
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He's counting the 19 times Origi has come on as a sub, even if for the last 5 minutes :lol:

Origi has only played 1119 mins out of a possible 2970 (plus any injury time).
 
Doofus said:
He's counting the 19 times Origi has come on as a sub, even if for the last 5 minutes :lol:

Origi has only played 1119 mins out of a possible 2970 (plus any injury time).
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That's not relevant to what he was saying though - Origi was fit thus available for selection.
 
Doofus said:
He's counting the 19 times Origi has come on as a sub, even if for the last 5 minutes :lol:

Origi has only played 1119 mins out of a possible 2970 (plus any injury time).
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It's as @RobinLFC said, I think I misunderstood the numbers.

They represent the games that each player has been available for.
 
Klopp is clearly referring to missing Mane, Lallana, Henderson, Coutinho, etc long term during crucial times, though. Let's say we had Mane throughout January, would we be where we are now? I doubt it. Imo we'd have beaten Swansea at home at the very least, giving us 3 extra points. Plus we had some stupid decisions go against us during Jan/Feb too which screwed us over, like the late free kick against Sunderland which led to a penalty, and Ibra's offside goal against us at OT, Hazard's dive for the free kick against Chelsea, etc.

Injuries and decisions have really cost us this season in terms of maintaining a title challenge. And when you look at how many decisions have gone United's way, for example, it makes you wonder when we'll get that kind of luck? I can't think of one dodgy decision to present us a goal happening this season. Not one. Can you?

How many offside goals have United scored?

Yeah.
 
Doofus said:
decisions have really cost us this season in terms of maintaining a title challenge. And when you look at how many decisions have gone United's way, for example, it makes you wonder when we'll get that kind of luck? I can't think of one dodgy decision to present us a goal happening this season. Not one. Can you?

How many offside goals have United scored?

Yeah.
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Am I safe to laugh at this or is the joke on me? Seems too close to delusional Liverpool self-parody to be real.
 
witchtrials said:
Am I safe to laugh at this or is the joke on me? Seems too close to delusional Liverpool self-parody to be real.
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Care to point me to some Liverpool goals that shouldn't have stood?

I could link you to about 8 for United.
 
Doofus said:
Klopp is clearly referring to missing Mane, Lallana, Henderson, Coutinho, etc long term during crucial times, though. Let's say we had Mane throughout January, would we be where we are now? I doubt it. Imo we'd have beaten Swansea at home at the very least, giving us 3 extra points. Plus we had some stupid decisions go against us during Jan/Feb too which screwed us over, like the late free kick against Sunderland which led to a penalty, and Ibra's offside goal against us at OT, Hazard's dive for the free kick against Chelsea, etc.

Injuries and decisions have really cost us this season in terms of maintaining a title challenge. And when you look at how many decisions have gone United's way, for example, it makes you wonder when we'll get that kind of luck? I can't think of one dodgy decision to present us a goal happening this season. Not one. Can you?

How many offside goals have United scored?

Yeah.
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But then you can probably find plenty of decisions that have gone our way when they probably shouldn't have. There's definitely a lot of examples of decisions going against United this season.

Most teams have had to deal with injuries and poor refereeing this season.
 
You know what would be interesting.

At the end of the season each goal scored and conceeded by each club was reviewed and by a group consisting of a senior Ref, The England manager and manager from the championship it was voted on and decided if it was fair and should of stood. You could do it with Red cards as well!!

I've always wondered if luck evens its self out. Personally I think it probably does.

Edit) the manager is from the championship too keep him unbiased
 
With one game a week , they definitely should do better in the league. We have played significantly more games than them and still could equal them in points if we win our games. If they don't make top 4, it's a disaster of a season for them.
 
ash_86 said:
With one game a week , they definitely should do better in the league. We have played significantly more games than them and still could equal them in points if we win our games. If they don't make top 4, it's a disaster of a season for them.
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But if Liverpool do it'll be significant progress. It wasn't a squad to sustain a title push, obviously. However, getting 3rd with a lightish squad is good work. I'm not convinced comparisons with United are particularly relevant. Different transfer capabilities and different expectations at the start of the season. A lot scoffed at the idea of a top 4 finish.

I'd like to think this isn't the high watermark of Klopp's reign. I think he will build futher and improve his squad.
 
What he says is pretty fair. Chelsea have had the luxury of playing the same eleven more or less every week, and we saw how a couple of injuries instantly affected them at Old Trafford last weekend. Coutinho, Matip, Lallana and Henderson have all missed sizeable chunks of the season.

However, Klopp isn't absolved of all blame. We should have come into the season with a slightly deeper squad.

Fracture90 said:
Excuses are piling up for herr Jurgen... Never a good sign.
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Excuses for what? If we finish 3rd/4th it'll have been a pretty good season.

Doofus said:
Care to point me to some Liverpool goals that shouldn't have stood?

I could link you to about 8 for United.
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It might come across as bitter, but it's genuinely true. People will say these things even themselves out over the course of a season, but that's bullshit.

You can even go back to Mane's (incorrectly) disallowed goal at WHL, which if it had counted would have put us three points closer to Spurs.
 
PickledRed said:
But if Liverpool do it'll be significant progress. It wasn't a squad to sustain a title push, obviously. However, getting 3rd with a lightish squad is good work. I'm not convinced comparisons with United are particularly relevant. Different transfer capabilities and different expectations at the start of the season. A lot scoffed at the idea of a top 4 finish.

I'd like to think this isn't the high watermark of Klopp's reign. I think he will build futher and improve his squad.
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It may look like a progress but jury is still out until next season when they have mid week games. Even if they make CL and strengthen the squad, Klopp's training regime is intense and he's going to face similar scenarios to what's happened this season with a added burden of mid week games. Klopp is a bit one dimensional and he doesn't know to take a defensive approach, that may hurt them when they are in similar situation as we are in with European games sandwiched between likes of arsenal and spurs.

I think we have progressed much better with Jose than them irrespective of where we finish this term.
 
Ifs/ buts and maybes are the sign of a manager under pressure.

All teams get injuries and all teams have bad luck, surely fans get a bit tired of the same stuff every week
 
Plopp knows he has to deliver a trophy next season so his glasses are getting steamed up.

Liverpool are becoming the new Spurs/Everton. Getting giddy over finishing 3rd or 4th yet never winning feck all.
 
Doofus said:
Care to point me to some Liverpool goals that shouldn't have stood?

I could link you to about 8 for United.
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Ok, what are they? Let's also put them into some perspective. Last minute against Sunderland already 2-0 up and last minute against West Ham already winning against 10 men. Let's not act like they gained us points.

Decisions often even out but penalties etc; we have been denied this season and have cost us more points than the biased media and opp fans will have you believe.
 
And I'd be having it off with Scarlett Johansson if I was a billionaire and looked like Brad Pitt...
 
FootyballsL4 said:
You know what would be interesting.

At the end of the season each goal scored and conceeded by each club was reviewed and by a group consisting of a senior Ref, The England manager and manager from the championship it was voted on and decided if it was fair and should of stood. You could do it with Red cards as well!!

I've always wondered if luck evens its self out. Personally I think it probably does.

Edit) the manager is from the championship too keep him unbiased
Click to expand...

Yeah, great idea. Then we could have an alternate league table which would obviously be better than the actual league table.
I'm sure somebody's already thought if that.
(Or are you just taking the piss?)
 
RobinLFC said:
Probably Mane being away for January, our captain missing for most of the games in 2017 and our best defender not able to play due to multiple injuries and the Cameroon debacle during the AFCON. Lallana out for an extended period of time is a huge blow as well.
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I'm pretty sure you guys started slumping around AFCON time right? Mane was a huge miss for you guys he's class.
 
KN5 said:
I'm pretty sure you guys started slumping around AFCON time right? Mane was a huge miss for you guys he's class.
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Yeah, actually started with our last game with Mane, the 2-2 draw at Sunderland which is a pretty horrible result given how bad they were back then. Mane's absence certainly didn't help matters but we were just not good enough around that time, some poor performances in the FA Cup as well. We'll never know if it would've played out otherwise though, so no point in trying to argue about it :)

He's a huge miss now for us as well but fortunately Firmino & Coutinho have started to hit form again at the right time, those two wins at Stoke and at West Brom were absolutely crucial. I think if we can win at the weekend, combined with a home fixture against Boro on the last day of the season, would see us pretty comfortable in the top four (72 points), especially if you look at United's (and City/Arsenal) remaining schedule. I reckon we'll end up somewhere between 75 and 80 points which will be more than enough to secure top 4.

Our squad is hugely depleted atm though (Matip, Lucas, Klavan are out, Henderson, Lallana and Mane as well) so a win on Sunday is far from a given!
 
FootyballsL4 said:
You know what would be interesting.

At the end of the season each goal scored and conceeded by each club was reviewed and by a group consisting of a senior Ref, The England manager and manager from the championship it was voted on and decided if it was fair and should of stood. You could do it with Red cards as well!!

I've always wondered if luck evens its self out. Personally I think it probably does.

Edit) the manager is from the championship too keep him unbiased
Click to expand...

It would still be based on these people's subjective opinions though - thus any decision they turned over would then be viewed as 'unlucky' for the other team.
 
Doofus said:
Klopp is clearly referring to missing Mane, Lallana, Henderson, Coutinho, etc long term during crucial times, though. Let's say we had Mane throughout January, would we be where we are now? I doubt it. Imo we'd have beaten Swansea at home at the very least, giving us 3 extra points. Plus we had some stupid decisions go against us during Jan/Feb too which screwed us over, like the late free kick against Sunderland which led to a penalty, and Ibra's offside goal against us at OT, Hazard's dive for the free kick against Chelsea, etc.

Injuries and decisions have really cost us this season in terms of maintaining a title challenge. And when you look at how many decisions have gone United's way, for example, it makes you wonder when we'll get that kind of luck? I can't think of one dodgy decision to present us a goal happening this season. Not one. Can you?

How many offside goals have United scored?

Yeah.
Click to expand...
Look at Tottenhams injuries this season and then get back to me.

It's a very poor excuse that almost any team could use.
 
It's not the players, or injuries, it's Klopp's football.

And the same thing will continue to happen until he refines his football to cope with the English schedule and the competitive nature of the PL.

Without being sarcastic, I genuinely find it ironic that Liverpool fans seem to think being in the CL next season will be a good thing for them, when the PL schedule is even more mental next season and being in the CL will obviously cull any chances of a title push.

I understand that it'll slightly improve their lure to potential signings, but I honestly think they'd have a chance of winning the PL with no CL footy and a refined approach from Klopp.

In the the CL, they'll win neither.
 
KN5 said:
I'm pretty sure you guys started slumping around AFCON time right? Mane was a huge miss for you guys he's class.
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We still managed a couple of 1-1 draws away to United & Chelsea in January without him though. The team played pretty well in both matches too. Lost 2-0 away to Hull in early February with him in the side, so I don't buy into this 'no Mane no party' stuff. We don't seem to be able to compete at the same level when playing teams lower down the table. 2 consecutive victories against Stoke & West Brom have bucked the trend lately, but it's too little, too late, for us I'm afraid. Our failure to keep up a title challenge goes much deeper than the loss of one man. If anything positive can come from this though, it'll waken up our owners to the need for a better quality squad for next season, & the need to recruit players with a bit of mental toughness.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yeah, actually started with our last game with Mane, the 2-2 draw at Sunderland which is a pretty horrible result given how bad they were back then. Mane's absence certainly didn't help matters but we were just not good enough around that time, some poor performances in the FA Cup as well. We'll never know if it would've played out otherwise though, so no point in trying to argue about it :)

He's a huge miss now for us as well but fortunately Firmino & Coutinho have started to hit form again at the right time, those two wins at Stoke and at West Brom were absolutely crucial. I think if we can win at the weekend, combined with a home fixture against Boro on the last day of the season, would see us pretty comfortable in the top four (72 points), especially if you look at United's (and City/Arsenal) remaining schedule. I reckon we'll end up somewhere between 75 and 80 points which will be more than enough to secure top 4.

Our squad is hugely depleted atm though (Matip, Lucas, Klavan are out, Henderson, Lallana and Mane as well) so a win on Sunday is far from a given!
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How bad they were back then? They're still terrible as can be :D (Sunderland that is). Yeah, think 72-74 will be the bare minimum for fourth this season. Can't see city not making it either, pretty much between us and you guys, sadly both squads are depleted but we also have other competitions to worry about, which also does give us another route into the UCL so can't complain too much. Our run in, in the EL is easier than Spurs/Arsenal/City in the final 7 games. Here's to hoping Liverpool slump so we can snatch a quick one over you lot!:drool:
 
redman5 said:
We still managed a couple of 1-1 draws away to United & Chelsea in January without him though. The team played pretty well in both matches too. Lost 2-0 away to Hull in early February with him in the side, so I don't buy into this 'no Mane no party' stuff. We don't seem to be able to compete at the same level when playing teams lower down the table. 2 consecutive victories against Stoke & West Brom have bucked the trend lately, but it's too little, too late, for us I'm afraid. Our failure to keep up a title challenge goes much deeper than the loss of one man. If anything positive can come from this though, it'll waken up our owners to the need for a better quality squad for next season, & the need to recruit players with a bit of mental toughness.
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Thing that sticks our for me when you play without Mane is you have no penetration or no one running in behind. Often when I watched LFC within that period they hoof balled it or constantly played crosses in to people like Firmino, to be fair he took advantage of some of them too.

Also you guys were pretty abysmal vs Us, we weren't too much better but we certainly had the chances and very easy chances at that to put you to bed, but because we suck we didnt. That United LFC game overall was not a great one performance wise from both teams IMO.
 
I think if we successfully overcome Palace at home then we are looking really good for CL football. A big club like ours has been out of it for far too long and I still think Klopp is the man to take us to that next step. You United fans can take the piss as much as you like about every little thing he says and does but you guys all know very well that we wouldn't even be competing for a top 4 place without him. Who could we have had instead of him at the time? Ancelotti? We all know the squads he's worked with, I'm sorry but I don't think he would have been much of a success with the shite players Rodgers left us. If Klopp spends this summer we will be a threat, he has barely spent any money and he's over achieving this season so with some additions to the squad you guys need to get ready to hate him some more.
 
Oga on top. said:
I think if we successfully overcome Palace at home then we are looking really good for CL football. A big club like ours has been out of it for far too long and I still think Klopp is the man to take us to that next step. You United fans can take the piss as much as you like about every little thing he says and does but you guys all know very well that we wouldn't even be competing for a top 4 place without him. Who could we have had instead of him at the time? Ancelotti? We all know the squads he's worked with, I'm sorry but I don't think he would have been much of a success with the shite players Rodgers left us. If Klopp spends this summer we will be a threat, he has barely spent any money and he's over achieving this season so with some additions to the squad you guys need to get ready to hate him some more.
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What!? Rodgers had you in the CL and pushing for a title properly.

Brendan Rodgers did a better job than Klopp has done thus far.

Better record as well.

I don't know why guys elevate Klopp so much, he's lucky to be at Liverpool, not the other way 'round!
 
Sweech said:
Look at Tottenhams injuries this season and then get back to me.

It's a very poor excuse that almost any team could use.
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Anyone besides Chelsea basically. Klopp should just be happy that he's only had to deal with one competition unlike the rest of the teams around him. I doubt he'd be in the top 4 had he been playing in Europe.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Brendan Rodgers did a better job than Klopp has done thus far.

Better record as well.

I don't know why guys elevate Klopp so much, he's lucky to be at Liverpool, not the other way 'round!
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So I thought it was Suarez that carried us to that 13/14 title challenge? Why should Rodgers get credit for literally only having an impact by playing the same Eleven players week in week out hoping for the best? Because I'm sure amongst United fans at least the general consensus is that Suarez dragged us to that title race. Besides Rodgers did nothing with us in the cups. The reason why we elevate Klopp so much is because despite his flaws such as stubborness (the Sahko situation) if he's leading us out next year in the Champions League I will have hope going into every group stage game that he will motivate the team enough to perform to a high level. When we last qualified under Rodgers we were so out of our depths it was ridiculous. Struggling to beat teams like Ludorogets ffs.
 
ash_86 said:
It may look like a progress but jury is still out until next season.
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Isn't that a bit of a truism? Progress for any team is always consolidated by further building on progress. However, it's still reasonable to appreciate progress in the moment without constructing a negative version of the future. Who knows what will happen next season?

Not sure "Klopp's methods" are quite so damaging - he wouldn't use them for such a sustained period if that was the case. He's a clever football man. The issue for Liverpool this season isn't simply a matter of injuries (all clubs have those); it's an issue of not being able to replace injured players with equivalent quality.
 
PickledRed said:
Isn't that a bit of a truism? Progress for any team is always consolidated by further building on progress. However, it's still reasonable to appreciate progress in the moment without constructing a negative version of the future. Who knows what will happen next season?

Not sure "Klopp's methods" are quite so damaging - he wouldn't use them for such a sustained period if that was the case. He's a clever football man. The issue for Liverpool this season isn't simply a matter of injuries (all clubs have those); it's an issue of not being able to replace injured players with equivalent quality.
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I think next season will determine Klopp's status as to whether or not he falls into the top class bracket, or just the very good bracket. We'd be expecting at least 4, or maybe 5, players to come in, who, on paper anyway, should be good enough to go straight into the first-team. How they, & the team, perform will shape general opinions as to his true standing in the game. Excuses won't wash if we don't at least win a trophy & do well in the league.
 
redman5 said:
I think next season will determine Klopp's status as to whether or not he falls into the top class bracket, or just the very good bracket. We'd be expecting at least 4, or maybe 5, players to come in, who, on paper anyway, should be good enough to go straight into the first-team. How they, & the team, perform will shape general opinions as to his true standing in the game. Excuses won't wash if we don't at least win a trophy & do well in the league.
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And this is where his real, but not so major, flaws might show. He's already shown he can get it badly wrong in the January window. I'm hoping that was a blip obviously.
 
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