Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

Handré1990 said:
Even though it is a well structured post, and all the points are valid, I really don't see the difference to my point. The bolded part is my point. To try to compete with the big spenders now could well be seen as more of a risk, than what the realistic reward could be. Just a simplistic way to look at it of course, but well in line with their business strategy from that e-mail exchange.
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And are we as fans supposed to be content with that? Are we as fans of a football club not entitled to get riled up at the fact that during the most financially and commercially profitable time in football history we have chosen not to risk the possibility of being successful because they decided its not worth it?

I know this isnt a debate on the ins and outs of every idiotic descion FSG has ever made so i'll stick to the point you made for now. The fact is we're the club with the highest net profit from player sales in all of Europe for the past 5/6 years, we've been outspent in the past 2 years not just by the top teams but midtable sides, we're also the only side with Southampton to record a profit this season. So when i say that we should be able to spend 150mill net this summer comfortably, I dont expect that every summer, but the fact is the money is there and we should comfortably be able to finally build a squad to compete on all fronts and not have to throw competitions like we have.

Under FSG we've constantly been in overhaul and transition, we bring in 8, sell 8, bring in 4 sell 4, we've had no coherent strategy just a farcial operation run by a harley driving tosspot and a couple yes men number crunchers, FSG came in thinking they were smarter than everyone and have failed to put a mirror up and take good long hard look. Barring 2013 we have failed to invest in the playing squad every January. Ironically enough that one time was one of our best ever windows in modern times, it took heavy criticism and an open apology letter from JH to finally do something, it shouldnt have to ever come to that its ridiculous yet season after season it happens in one form or another. They dont take action unless prompted by the fans usually when the seasons more or less gone.

They had a buisness plan to compete ala Arsenal and build a self sustaining model via regular CL, they outlined this at the start of their tenure yet havent given any indication they can even remotely achieve this, the running of the club has been comical for years. Klopp's a manager not a magician he wont make miracles happen all on his own. He doesnt have a Zorc here, no DOF like Monchi/Ragnick. Its a job that appeals to him but all FSG see is someone who can keep there cash flow running. They have no real desire to compete at the real real top end or any sort of plan to get there, its been years since they outlined a strategy. This summer 5/6 big signings have been mentioned, Gerrard mentioned it too, this summer will be the acid test, if they leave us with another defecient playing squad its not going to be pretty when the season kicks in. So far they've made all the wrong noises. I'll reserve a final judgement untill Sept 1st, but this summer is make or break, 7 years in, they need to finally get it together.
 
He's such an idiot. "Offside goal" and yet there was about 12 touches after the incident. What an absolute tool.
 
Schmiznurf said:
It wasn't though, the rules even state it has to be deliberate for it to be a penalty, it wasn't deliberate.
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This is what I found on the rules from FIFA;

"Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with
the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into
consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement"

Perhaps it wasn't deliberate, but since it was straight from a corner, and the hand went towards the ball I still think it's a clearcut penalty. Pogba has no excuse as for why his hand was there when challenging for the ball.

If not people could be jumping with their hands in the air if they lose sight of the ball, or hope to accidentally block it.
 
AlecHDR said:
Good article on Klopp. Worth a read.

Jürgen Klopp opens up on family life, Liverpool's recent form, and that offside goal
Manager talks offside goals, the magic of Merseyside, and the power of losing honourably

J-rgen-Klopp-010.jpg

Jürgen Klopp is readying himself for a vital clash with Spurs in the Premier League. Photograph: Puma


An hour after the first of Jürgen Klopp's many jokes, interspersed with his worldly insights into football and life, he returns to a more personal memory. It is fitting and evocative because his passionate club's exhilarating play and outrageous drama, painful transfer intrigue and riotous joy, validates Klopp's claim that "this is the most interesting football project in the world".

It was strangely similar for Klopp at Mainz, the first love of his sporting life. Klopp, who eventually became their coach, used to be a lumbering striker-turned-defender in the German second division, and he suggests that: "Just like every person who works for Liverpool is a fan of the club, it was the same at Mainz. When I was a player there we had 800 supporters on rainy Saturday afternoons and if we died no one would notice or come to our funeral. But we loved the club and we have this same feeling at Liverpool. It's a very special club – a workers' club, even for the non-workers in this great city."

When asked about the recent run of losses and draws, his laughter dies and he looks suddenly stricken, only for a beaming smile to appear again, "Ok this is football. You win and you lose. It must feel terrible for our fans right now but the lows in football is what makes the highs so great. Once we start winning again, that winning feeling is going to be a lot better than if we hadn't gone on a losing run."

Klopp stresses the importance of good football, even if it leads to mixed results in the short term. "Listen a lot of people will say that it is better to be pragmatic, to play the long balls like United, but football is about entertainment. No one remembers the trophies you win or the points you accumulated but they will remember the excitement they felt when they were watching the game. There is also something very empowering about losing while playing the better football, it gives your team self belief. Losing honourably can give you the kind of momentum that you don't get by winning sometimes."

Family, Emotions, and that goal

klopp_rage.jpg

Klopp's wife, Ulla, has seen his emotional side one too many times.

Klopp comes from a small village in the Black Forest – "There were 1,500 people there when I left and 1,499 live there now." He is the father of two grown-up sons and his wife, Ulla, is a writer. "She wrote a book for children," Klopp says. "It's like Harry Potter – but it's about football. There's no Harry Potter flying on his fecking stick – just football. She has been through all the emotional rollercoaster with me. She understands the frustrations that come with being a football manager." The couple recently separated, something that Klopp partially blames himself for but mostly blames a great injustice that happened on that day, "The day when we drew with Manchester United because of that offside goal, I got really emotional. We had talked about how I should act when I am frustrated and emotional. The passion and anger I felt from that offside goal in a game we clearly deserved to win spilled over. She was right to leave."

Liverpool, the club for neutrals

"We are a club, not a company," Klopp says, "but it depends on which kind of story the neutral fan wants to hear. If he respects the story of United, and how much they have won since the 1990s, he can support them. But if he wants the new story, the special story, it must be Liverpool. I think, in this moment in the football world, you have to be on our side."

Source
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Very good :D
 
The victim mentality really takes over everyone at that shithole of a club. Fans, players, owners, managers.

Also, a good indication of manager doing badly at Liverpool is when their fans start pointing fingers at the transfer committee and the owners.
 
Might as well rename this thread to the fatigue thread, how come no other club in the below or above them seem to be having this 'fatigue'?What exactly are they doing that others don't? The gangam press? Everybody can do the gangam press but nobody is stupid enough to attempt it throughout a whole season. Even United fans are buying into it..'ooh but they're tired from playing with such intensity','they got so many games' etc...compared to who exactly, its pissing me off, teams like Hull barely have a first team yet I don't hear anybody making excuses for them.
They're an average team, with a hipster manager, who had a run of very good form then went to shit, simples
 
Akash said:
The victim mentality really takes over everyone at that shithole of a club. Fans, players, owners, managers.

Also, a good indication of manager doing badly at Liverpool is when their fans start pointing fingers at the transfer committee and the owners.
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Definitely something in the water in Liverpool.

They're a strange breed.
 
montpelier said:
I thought that the 'Yank' view of English footy (management) as (still) being in the dark ages was quite interesting. Though the people supplying that view would probably be somewhat inclined towards telling people what they were wanting to hear.
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think that has more to do with the commercialisation and ownership aspects of footy compared with American sports, for example most of their new stadiums get a massive amount of public funding because if the local government refuses to pay up the owner just threatens to pack up the franchise and leave town.
 
Super Chops said:
think that has more to do with the commercialisation and ownership aspects of footy compared with American sports, for example most of their new stadiums get a massive amount of public funding because if the local government refuses to pay up the owner just threatens to pack up the franchise and leave town.
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Wonder if it does, yeah. It just seemed so completely sweeping as a statement - esp if we throw back that a lot of their sport is only marketable in America because only they play the rounders & the grid-iron. <--- that's my consultancy assessment for you.

Maybe they want to do a wholesale re-locate of LFC to the USA at some point & fly over for the away games (Fenway have seen that MK Dons done it to Wimbledon, maybe) - same principle, slightly bigger scale.
 
It is an amazing coincidence, the more Liverpool lose the more unlikable he is becoming.
 
Is that an actual interview? Seems a bit ridiculous.

Edit: Or maybe I'm a moron.
 
King Kendrick said:
But would Klopp actually want to stay 5-7 years, especially with you stating that the owners are petty much tying his hands behind his back?
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Klopp loves a job like this, he could have gone to any side in the world but he picked a side that was more or less a sleeping giant and had become a perennial also-ran. I think Klopp will always present a united front no matter what. Weather he'd ever walk? Im not sure I dont think so, I think fan pressure will force them to act one way or another hopefully.
 
Akash said:
The victim mentality really takes over everyone at that shithole of a club. Fans, players, owners, managers.

Also, a good indication of manager doing badly at Liverpool is when their fans start pointing fingers at the transfer committee and the owners.
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The owners are criticised regardless and have been during their tenure to date, they were with the dempsey debacle/sanchez/balo fiasco. The only times they havent been was at Rodgers sacking and by then it was warranted and he'd legitamately lost it by then.

They were criticised as early as last summer post transfer window, it was clear we hadnt invested anything significant and had a multitude of squad issues. The only reason you didnt hear it then is because we were doing well, and most on here get there news from RAWK, given the nature of that forum its borderline verging on blasphemy to criticise anything when things are going well.

Dont get me wrong for this current run Klopp is just as much to blame with some bizzare tactics and selection. My earlier post was directed not only at this current run, but the comsistent mistakes made from them during their entire reign and the ownership model spanning 7 years which has been nothing short of comical.
 
Klopp won't stay for 5-7 years! :lol:

The pressure at Pool is different to most jobs. Unless he is winning league titles then I can't see the owners or fanbase putting up with him long term - his achievements at Dortmund will be quickly forgotten.

Liverpool's owners won't be signing the quality that Chelsea, Utd, City or even Arsenal will be. He has a gargantuan task on there.
 
He seems to mention United after every three or four sentences he spews out, did he want the job here? It seems strange to want to mention us so much, it's incredibly small time.
 
Peanut Butter said:
Klopp won't stay for 5-7 years! :lol:

The pressure at Pool is different to most jobs. Unless he is winning league titles then I can't see the owners or fanbase putting up with him long term - his achievements at Dortmund will be quickly forgotten.

Liverpool's owners won't be signing the quality that Chelsea, Utd, City or even Arsenal will be. He has a gargantuan task on there.
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Exactly my point, nobodies asking for those types of funds every year, but this summer it should be more than affordable given the profits we've recorded recently. We're not asking to compete on a grandoise scale, we're asking that when the team is severely defecient say in a january window and the team is crying out for a signing that will not only address a squad issue ( say winger) but make it one less player we have to buy in the summer. No other club would constantly hamper themselves the way we do because someone with some footballing nous will recognise the need for investment.

The fact is we have the 5th highest wage bill in the league, yet every season in the 7 years they've been here (this season excepted) they've only once managed a legitamate challenge for the top four. (13/14) That is a complete and utter disaster on the footballing front.

FSG look for quick fixes and scapegoats instead of looking at the elephant in the room which is that they simply aren't very good at running a football Club and no amount of shuffling of job titles and replacement of personnel is going to change that. Their belief that their skill set can transfer to Football has been an epic failure but they still continue to believe that they are smarter than everyone else and that if they continue to hit restart every couple of years then they will hit the jackpot. Until they accept that and allow Football people to do their job unhindered then we will continue to underachieve and punch way below our weight.

So yeah, you're right Klopp wont last 5-7 years under this ownership which is his aim. FSG have no desire to compete on any front, not the top 4 nor the title, least thats the impression they give in the most fruitless trophy spell in our modern history.

Edit - apologies for the weird format, dont know what i've done there :lol:
 
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Liver_bird said:
And are we as fans supposed to be content with that? Are we as fans of a football club not entitled to get riled up at the fact that during the most financially and commercially profitable time in football history we have chosen not to risk the possibility of being successful because they decided its not worth it?

I know this isnt a debate on the ins and outs of every idiotic descion FSG has ever made so i'll stick to the point you made for now. The fact is we're the club with the highest net profit from player sales in all of Europe for the past 5/6 years, we've been outspent in the past 2 years not just by the top teams but midtable sides, we're also the only side with Southampton to record a profit this season. So when i say that we should be able to spend 150mill net this summer comfortably, I dont expect that every summer, but the fact is the money is there and we should comfortably be able to finally build a squad to compete on all fronts and not have to throw competitions like we have.

Under FSG we've constantly been in overhaul and transition, we bring in 8, sell 8, bring in 4 sell 4, we've had no coherent strategy just a farcial operation run by a harley driving tosspot and a couple yes men number crunchers, FSG came in thinking they were smarter than everyone and have failed to put a mirror up and take good long hard look. Barring 2013 we have failed to invest in the playing squad every January. Ironically enough that one time was one of our best ever windows in modern times, it took heavy criticism and an open apology letter from JH to finally do something, it shouldnt have to ever come to that its ridiculous yet season after season it happens in one form or another. They dont take action unless prompted by the fans usually when the seasons more or less gone.

They had a buisness plan to compete ala Arsenal and build a self sustaining model via regular CL, they outlined this at the start of their tenure yet havent given any indication they can even remotely achieve this, the running of the club has been comical for years. Klopp's a manager not a magician he wont make miracles happen all on his own. He doesnt have a Zorc here, no DOF like Monchi/Ragnick. Its a job that appeals to him but all FSG see is someone who can keep there cash flow running. They have no real desire to compete at the real real top end or any sort of plan to get there, its been years since they outlined a strategy. This summer 5/6 big signings have been mentioned, Gerrard mentioned it too, this summer will be the acid test, if they leave us with another defecient playing squad its not going to be pretty when the season kicks in. So far they've made all the wrong noises. I'll reserve a final judgement untill Sept 1st, but this summer is make or break, 7 years in, they need to finally get it together.
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Just playing the devils advocate. I agree with you completely. It's just the timing of this collective outrage from your fan base I find puzzling. Remember many people were discussing this "Moneyball" consept and how it would be difficult to translate into a working model for football in general. Also, they're yanks, what did you guys really expect? The title challenge in 13/14 seemed a little random (as in not really expected from ambitions and planning, more so because of Suares being on fire), and as you say, Klopp also seems like a lucky break.
 
Handré1990 said:
Just playing the devils advocate. I agree with you completely. It's just the timing of this collective outrage from your fan base I find puzzling. Remember many people were discussing this "Moneyball" consept and how it would be difficult to translate into a working model for football in general. Also, they're yanks, what did you guys really expect? The title challenge in 13/14 seemed a little random (as in not really expected from ambitions and planning, more so because of Suares being on fire), and as you say, Klopp also seems like a lucky break.
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Agreed, and i think the modus operandi has always been questioned, but the consistent transition and overhaul of the squad has always given the naysayers and FSG apologists in the fanbase the opportunity to shut off any real dialogue through various rhetorics spouted by various journalists in the media.( liverpool based ones) I think this season was a step too far and its finally starting to really boil over, whereas before the vocal minority were easily silenced. Really think this summer will be make or break in terms of which way proverbial tide firmly shifts.
 
Liver_bird said:
Agreed, and i think the modus operandi has always been questioned, but the consistent transition and overhaul of the squad has always given the naysayers and FSG apologists in the fanbase the opportunity to shut off any real dialogue through various rhetorics spouted by various journalists in the media.(liverpool based ones) I think this season was a step too far and its finally starting to really boil over, whereas before the vocal minority were easily silenced. Really think this summer will be make or break in terms of which way proverbial tide firmly shifts.
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Ah, well, that does actually explain a lot of my confusion. A few of my closest friends are pool supporters and they've been saying this since the americans took over.
 
Does Klopp over celebrate everything? Comes across as really cringeworthy!
 
Question for United fans:

Would you rather have Liverpool win the Premier League, or have United lose to Liverpool in a Champions League final?
 
This should put the 'Klopp has been figured out' or 'German Brendan Rogers' comments to bed. Tottenham didn't even have a sniff today, impressive stuff. Pool are back in the race for a top 4 finish, United need to overtake someone, sad stuff again.
 
Infordin said:
Question for United fans:

Would you rather have Liverpool win the Premier League, or have United lose to Liverpool in a Champions League final?
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We get to be in the Champions League?
 
Mourinhonista said:
This should put the 'Klopp has been figured out' or 'German Brendan Rogers' comments to bed. Tottenham didn't even have a sniff today, impressive stuff. Pool are back in the race for a top 4 finish, United need to overtake someone, sad stuff again.
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It won't and it shouldn't.

You are aware that they pretty much always beat spurs at Anfield. Under Rogers they did too.

Incredibly naive from the Spurs manager today. He should have parked the bus for the first half, but instead he played a really high line and they lost two early goals in the break.

Staggering lack of tactical awareness that was.
 
The lack of matches they have going forward will suit them well. They will be able to play at full intensity like today for the remainder of their fixtures.
 
GaryLifo said:
It won't and it shouldn't.

You are aware that they pretty much always beat spurs at Anfield. Under Rogers they did too.

Incredibly naive from the Spurs manager today. He should have parked the bus for the first half, but instead he played a really high line and they lost two early goals in the break.

Staggering lack of tactical awareness that was.
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With hindsight it's always easier to spot some so-called misconceptions. The fact is Pool played well, bullied Spurs all over the pitch and in the end won deservedly. I don't think Tottenham were poor because they had an off-day, Liverpool were just the better side. Last season Tottenham almost won the league, they're not the small side they used to be, ask Chelsea, not easy to beat them these days.

All in all Pool have been playing good football this season, they're up there with the Manchester clubs which is impressive when taking the spending power into account.

Rodgers couldn't teach them how to defend properly, there was no real progress. With Klopp you know what you get, a proven league winner who will beat much stronger teams such as Dortmund last season.

I don't think any Liverpool fan would put Klopp's qualities into question, that's just wishful thinking or desperate talk from oppo's, IMO (no offence).
 
Eh. Liverpool are a Suarez/Lewandowski striker away from going toe to toe with chelsea this season, actually. Klopp's been doing a great job in the league. FA Cup was the real big failure so far
 
Infordin said:
Question for United fans:

Would you rather have Liverpool win the Premier League, or have United lose to Liverpool in a Champions League final?
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I would take CL final. At least they would stop saying five times la !
 
Mourinhonista said:
With hindsight it's always easier to spot some so-called misconceptions. The fact is Pool played well, bullied Spurs all over the pitch and in the end won deservedly. I don't think Tottenham were poor because they had an off-day, Liverpool were just the better side. Last season Tottenham almost won the league, they're not the small side they used to be, ask Chelsea, not easy to beat them these days.

All in all Pool have been playing good football this season, they're up there with the Manchester clubs which is impressive when taking the spending power into account.

Rodgers couldn't teach them how to defend properly, there was no real progress. With Klopp you know what you get, a proven league winner who will beat much stronger teams such as Dortmund last season.

I don't think any Liverpool fan would put Klopp's qualities into question, that's just wishful thinking or desperate talk from oppo's, IMO (no offence).
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We'll still struggle if we pick up injuries, theres still massive work to be done in the summer and it remains to be seen if it'll be done, Klopp hasnt been found out as such, but we are heavily reliant on a few key players because we cant replace the qualities they bring in to the team. Injury free i think we can have a strong finish to the season.
 
giorno said:
Eh. Liverpool are a Suarez/Lewandowski striker away from going toe to toe with chelsea this season, actually. Klopp's been doing a great job in the league. FA Cup was the real big failure so far
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A 70% goals striker you mean?

Well holy shit. Tell you what, we're a Messi away from challenging for a title.
 
giorno said:
Eh. Liverpool are a Suarez/Lewandowski striker away from going toe to toe with chelsea this season, actually. Klopp's been doing a great job in the league. FA Cup was the real big failure so far
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Hes done exceptionally well and got every ounce out of what he has, he needs backing in the summer, we need wingers, a Lallana backup/rotation, a CB a LB and possibly a striker. I still think I've missed something there too.
 
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