Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

do.ob said:
The problem he ran into at Dortmund was that his plan A only works really well when everyone is fit and playing at 100%. So obviously he faced consistency problems when CL fixtures/injuries entered the mix.
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So it's a story to provide cover for when the 1st XI can't play at full throttle & to obscure that they have a suspect defence? That has feck all to do with the opposition's tactical strategy.

But perhaps he does need a Plan B though, if what you say is right - and it seems pretty fair to me.

But Klopp's approach can get a bit stuck / Jurgen is inflexible, doesn't quite fit in with the ''I look nothing like Deirdre Barlow, Jurgen's management is faultlessly magnificent & we easily have the Best Team unless they cheat'' narrative does it?

Spurs were shocking yesterday. Lucas looked like Baresi, ffs. And we're back down to 6th, :(.
 
They don't play for 16 days now, hopefully kills any momentum they've picked up from yesterday.
 
Speedy30 said:
I'm not sure it's just the front 3 tbh. We had those 3 playing last week but had Can on instead if Wijnaldum. Can slows the play right down and Henderson/Lallana don't look as comfortable next to him as they do with Gini.

Henderson can sit deeper with Wijnaldum pushing forward and Lallana running around behind the front three as well.
If those 6 started every single game, we'd be fine scoring wise but take any one of them out and we look weaker.

Henderson and Wijnaldum are by no means great playes individually but they do a great job in a good side that needs them
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For me, one area where Klopp didn't cover himself in glory was when we moved Lallana further up and brought Can into the midfield when we lost Coutinho and Mane. Lallana has been something of a revelation in that midfield three with Henderson and Wig this season, having been pretty average starting further forward previously, while, as you say, Can slows everything down - good if you're 4-0 up, not so much when you're chasing the game.
 
VanGaalEra said:
They don't play for 16 days now, hopefully kills any momentum they've picked up from yesterday.
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You don't think we'll be able to nab second from Spurs/Arse I take it? I think we have it within us, we have ONE competition to focus on for the remaining four months of the season, considering most of the big boys are still in Europe + FA cup it would be a disappointment not to get second nevermind not make top 4 at all. I'm used to disappointments though.
 
Oga on top. said:
You don't think we'll be able to nab second from Spurs/Arse I take it? I think we have it within us, we have ONE competition to focus on for the remaining four months of the season, considering most of the big boys are still in Europe + FA cup it would be a disappointment not to get second nevermind not make top 4 at all. I'm used to disappointments though.
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Aren't we all mate, aren't we all.
 
Oga on top. said:
You don't think we'll be able to nab second from Spurs/Arse I take it? I think we have it within us, we have ONE competition to focus on for the remaining four months of the season, considering most of the big boys are still in Europe + FA cup it would be a disappointment not to get second nevermind not make top 4 at all. I'm used to disappointments though.
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Let's be honest, yesterday wasn't anything different from what we've seen all season.

Let's see how you play against the next side that sits back, overloads in the middle of the park and hits you on the counter.
 
totaalvoetbal said:
Klopps tactics are at their peak when his teams are allowed to transition. Small teams are more compact so it is harder to do. When Klopp plays teams like City and Arsenal, they are teams that almost always take the initiative with the ball so Klopps counter pressing is most effective then. Look at the big wins he had last year.

In his final few years in Bvb, especially after his last league win in the 11/12 season, bvb struggled in the league because teams started respecting them and getting tighter, compressing the spaces between the lines. In their CL run, they faced teams that were meant to be 'bigger' especially in the group stage, City, Madrid etc and even Ajax because of the way de Boers set up. They were all there for the killing as the onus was on them to initiate the play. It's no surprise that the team he struggled against the most in his best run was Malaga as pellegrini made them very compact although BvB were guilty of missing a few good chances.

Didn't you ever wonder why they topped the group in Klopps final season there despite being awful in the league? Then they faced Juventus who let them take the initiate the play and they got defeated soundly. The spacing between his CMs when teams sit back sometimes is embarrassing to watch in some games. At points in his final season his CMs were in a straight line when the cb had the ball. So the team could not circulate the ball properly from the back and this lead to a lot of issues. How are you supposed to build up and circulate the ball effectively. Look at the Spacing again last year when they faced Sevilla.
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I posted this August last year. Nothing has changed. Win against big teams. Struggle agsinst smaller teams.
 
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Oga on top. said:
You don't think we'll be able to nab second from Spurs/Arse I take it? I think we have it within us, we have ONE competition to focus on for the remaining four months of the season, considering most of the big boys are still in Europe + FA cup it would be a disappointment not to get second nevermind not make top 4 at all. I'm used to disappointments though.
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City will get 2nd IMO.
 
Think the amount of stick Klopp is getting is more than a little unfair. Compare what he has done to Mourinho with less money and starting with a worse squad and I think he comes up favourably.
 
ElQuesoGrande said:
Think the amount of stick Klopp is getting is more than a little unfair. Compare what he has done to Mourinho with less money and starting with a worse squad and I think he comes up favourably.
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Second season vs first season
Out of all cups vs still in all three cups
One league win in 6 vs unbeaten in 16

For all the talk in late autumn about Liverpool challenging for the title whilst United would struggle to make the top 4, we're just one point behind them.
 
Samid said:
Second season vs first season
Out of all cups vs still in all three cups
One league win in 6 vs unbeaten in 16

For all the talk in late autumn about Liverpool challenging for the title whilst United would struggle to make the top 4, we're just one point behind them.
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A bit of perspective here amidst the sneering and back-slapping wouldn't go amiss!

Pre-season, I doubt there were many Utd fans who thought Liverpool would even make top 4, never mind win the title (most Liverpool fans also thought we'd do well to get top 4), whilst Utd fans thought a top 4 spot was nailed on, with a large proportion thinking you'd win the title, as reflected in the pre-season poll on here.

It's worth noting too, that our squad cost a lot, lot less to assemble than yours, which is managed by a serial PL winner - and you're a point behind us despite the awful run we've had since the new year.
 
ObelOitment Fungentula said:
Pre-season, I doubt there were many Utd fans who thought Liverpool would even make top 4, never mind win the title (most Liverpool fans also thought we'd do well to get top 4), whilst Utd fans thought a top 4 spot was nailed on, with a large proportion thinking you'd win the title, as reflected in the pre-season poll on here.
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Speaking for myself, I thought there was a real danger that you'd win the league - partly because of how much I rate Klopp and the game-raising ability of Liverpool going back at least a decade at this point, but mostly because of the lack of European football. Now that you're in the pathetic position that you have like 13 games left to play in three months, then there's really no excuse for you guys not to finish top four. With the schedule you have left, then top four should be the minimum expectation from here, especially given the amount of games your rivals (including Chelsea if you like) have to distract them.

You will beat Arsenal at Anfield, and obviously Everton because of how fecking pathetic they are against you every single time the derby comes around, and I'd say you have a better chance than ourselves away at City, but as others have said those aren't the games where the question marks hang over Liverpool. Spurs played the game yesterday so badly wrong (in the same way we know Arsenal will), but it's the lower table teams where the development of your team will be seen.
 
Speedy30 said:
Just read this... Obviously a few variables but with Leicesters form and Burnley probably getting through the next FA Cup round, this is not impossible

"Just seen that the Leicester game could well be postponed, meaning our next game won't be for 3 weeks - when we play Arsenal at Anfield.

If Leicester draw the game in the FA Cup next Saturday at Millwall, then they'll need a replay on Feb 28 or Mar 1st, meaning they can't play us on the Monday night game (27th).

Instead of just bringing it back to the Saturday (25th) it seems that they're more likely to postpone it.

And with the Burnley game on March 12th almost certainly being cancelled, assuming Burnley get past non-league Lincoln in the FA Cup, then it could mean that between now and playing Man.City on March 19th we only have 1 game. That's 1 game in the next 35 days!"
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I think Klopp will do a pre season thing if this is the case.
 
Cassady said:
I think Klopp will do a pre season thing if this is the case.
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It would be a wise move if you schduled a friendly in this scenario. You would lose match sharpness if it's nothing but training sessions.
 
So basically the winter break that Klopp won't be afforded in the PL? :wenger: In fact, longer.
 
ObelOitment Fungentula said:
A bit of perspective here amidst the sneering and back-slapping wouldn't go amiss!

Pre-season, I doubt there were many Utd fans who thought Liverpool would even make top 4, never mind win the title (most Liverpool fans also thought we'd do well to get top 4), whilst Utd fans thought a top 4 spot was nailed on, with a large proportion thinking you'd win the title, as reflected in the pre-season poll on here.

It's worth noting too, that our squad cost a lot, lot less to assemble than yours, which is managed by a serial PL winner - and you're a point behind us despite the awful run we've had since the new year.
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Same old excuses I hear every season as Liverpool start to drop down the league. I find it amazing that nearly every Liverpool fan I converse with has their squad better than ours at the start of a season yet you're club has finished above United 3 times in 25 years.
Context is a wonderful thing but you only use it for Liverpool and ignore it for United. You're squad cost a lot less because half of them are shit. Up until December you guys thought you would win the league and I have spoken to a lot of Liverpool fans last summer who expected a top four this season while most United fans raised their expectations based on our signings and new manager, a challenge seemed realistic but with a huge task in front of Mourinho to revamp the squad and get rid of that Van Gaal mentality a top four would be very acceptable. By the way, you are a point above use despite the horrible start we had and all those draws, see how that works.
If you want perspective then try to be fair to the situation both clubs find themselves in.
 
ObelOitment Fungentula said:
A bit of perspective here amidst the sneering and back-slapping wouldn't go amiss!

Pre-season, I doubt there were many Utd fans who thought Liverpool would even make top 4, never mind win the title (most Liverpool fans also thought we'd do well to get top 4), whilst Utd fans thought a top 4 spot was nailed on, with a large proportion thinking you'd win the title, as reflected in the pre-season poll on here.

It's worth noting too, that our squad cost a lot, lot less to assemble than yours, which is managed by a serial PL winner - and you're a point behind us despite the awful run we've had since the new year.
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It's also worth noting we were ten points behind you at the beginning of December.
 
ObelOitment Fungentula said:
A bit of perspective here amidst the sneering and back-slapping wouldn't go amiss!

Pre-season, I doubt there were many Utd fans who thought Liverpool would even make top 4, never mind win the title (most Liverpool fans also thought we'd do well to get top 4), whilst Utd fans thought a top 4 spot was nailed on, with a large proportion thinking you'd win the title, as reflected in the pre-season poll on here.

It's worth noting too, that our squad cost a lot, lot less to assemble than yours, which is managed by a serial PL winner - and you're a point behind us despite the awful run we've had since the new year.
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Fair points, but it's also worth noting Klopp already had 8 months to work with his team, unlike Mourinho who has come in and had to steady the ship much like Klopp in his first season. A point behind yes, but also in the FA cup still, have a final in Wembley and all whilst managing Europa on the side (through to the knockouts). You have no Europe and got knocked out both domestic cups.
 
Regardless of trying to be fair or not, that run we had before the Spurs win is relegation form. We need to do far far better to be a consistent competitive force around the top of the table, nevermind one with title-winning aspirations.

We have some more tough matches coming up, but no real banana skins until Burnley next month... then Stoke away in the following month. Those are the matches I want to see if we can win and win comfortably.

Also wouldn't hurt to start another winning streak again. :lol:
 
2.5 pts per game with the first choice front 6 starting, apparently

bus or no bus

source: by RAWK from somewhere else
 
AXVnee7 said:
Fair points, but it's also worth noting Klopp already had 8 months to work with his team, unlike Mourinho who has come in and had to steady the ship much like Klopp in his first season. A point behind yes, but also in the FA cup still, have a final in Wembley and all whilst managing Europa on the side (through to the knockouts). You have no Europe and got knocked out both domestic cups.
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Likewise good points - you ae doing well in the cups so far and your league form has picked up massively. But also worth noting that Klopp has only had one more window than Jose and that was a winter window a couple of months into his tenure - and both have only had one pre-season. Jose also knows the prem much better than Klopp. So, I guess the point I'm making is that in the bigger scheme of things Klopp is still relatively new (less than a year and a half in the premiership) and to an extent still finding his feet. He has made some mistakes recently, no doubt about that, but if he can turn it around and we make top 4, it will still be classed as a good season.

Conte on the other hand is showing everyone how its done and the most annoying thing about him is he is still a likeable character despite the fact that he manages those plastic turds.
 
Finn MacCool said:
Likewise good points - you ae doing well in the cups so far and your league form has picked up massively. But also worth noting that Klopp has only had one more window than Jose and that was a winter window a couple of months into his tenure - and both have only had one pre-season. Jose also knows the prem much better than Klopp. So, I guess the point I'm making is that in the bigger scheme of things Klopp is still relatively new (less than a year and a half in the premiership) and to an extent still finding his feet. He has made some mistakes recently, no doubt about that, but if he can turn it around and we make top 4, it will still be classed as a good season.

Conte on the other hand is showing everyone how its done and the most annoying thing about him is he is still a likeable character despite the fact that he manages those plastic turds.
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Yes I would agree, get top 4 now and it's still a good platform to build on for next season. Missing out would be disastrous given you've spent a great deal of the season comfortably in there.
 
VanGaalEra said:
They don't play for 16 days now, hopefully kills any momentum they've picked up from yesterday.
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This may happen. Who knows ?

A footie player needs competetive footie. In 1988 Liverpool had won the league at the beginning of April or something had didn't really give a feck. We then played Wimbledon in the cup final. Our first game in moons that we needed to win. We lost !
 
Why does one win against Tottenham remove all doom and gloom from Liverpool fans? Mane carried the game and everyone already knew they're good against teams that also attack.

Honestly I'd be more surprised if they won a game @Hull than against Tottenham
 
Flytan said:
Why does one win against Tottenham remove all doom and gloom from Liverpool fans? Mane carried the game and everyone already knew they're good against teams that also attack.

Honestly I'd be more surprised if they won a game @Hull than against Tottenham
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It seems it's the way around here. When Liverpool win, fear sets in and everyone starts overrating them.

When they're losing, we go OTT and call them the worst thing ever.

The truth is actually somewhere between. They're a decent side in attack but still have an average midfield and defence.

Don't let them score quickly like Spurs did and sit deep and teams seem to get joy against them.

They're a good side at times, nothing more.
 
Peanut Butter said:
It seems it's the way around here. When Liverpool win, fear sets in and everyone starts overrating them.

When they're losing, we go OTT and call them the worst thing ever.

The truth is actually somewhere between. They're a decent side in attack but still have an average midfield and defence.

Don't let them score quickly like Spurs did and sit deep and teams seem to get joy against them.

They're a good side at times, nothing more.
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There's a reason barring Leicester and indeed likely Chelsea this season (although most of this side is the same one that won the title 2 years ago) that sides that dont have european football dont win the league, and thats cause they have squads that arent built/good enough to win the league. We've done extremely well this season and Klopp has squeezed a lot out of these players. And barring the bizzare descion to play Can over Wijnaldum at times, has been mostly spot on with selections. But when the fixtures pile up our lack of investment/squad depth gets brutally exposed, injuries to key players whos skillsets and abilities we cant replicate within the squad and we're left threadbeare dropping down the table at an alarming rate. On the footballing side FSG have got it massively wrong and lack nous, this summer is the biggest acid test of there ambitions, top four (ideally top3) is a solid base to build on and start investing in the right areas and begin to regularly compete at the top end of the table, ( in/around the top four places/title) no more watching ourselves obliterate seasons and dissipitating away.
 
Their collapse this season has been remarkable.

Hilarious that they've gone from loudly proclaiming their title credentials, to now being in a battle for top 4 and literally nothing more. Great stuff.
 
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VanGaalEra said:
Let's be honest, yesterday wasn't anything different from what we've seen all season.

Let's see how you play against the next side that sits back, overloads in the middle of the park and hits you on the counter.
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Pretty much.
 
Flytan said:
Why does one win against Tottenham remove all doom and gloom from Liverpool fans? Mane carried the game and everyone already knew they're good against teams that also attack.

Honestly I'd be more surprised if they won a game @Hull than against Tottenham
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Yeah, I've been debating this with a couple of my fellow Liverpool fans who believe that we're back on track. I reminded them that after a pretty good performance - & result - against United we followed this up with a home defeat to Swansea. Then a similar story after the Chelsea match. We gave a good account of ourselves but played total shite the next game at bottom placed Hull. Our win against Spurs came because they played a high back-line & dawdled too much on the ball in that first half. They sat much deeper in the 2nd half & the game became far more scrappier with only a couple of decent half-chances. There was never any danger of Swansea & Hull conceding those type of goals. Win our next 4 or 5 games & might start believing we're still good enough for a top 4 spot. But 5th or 6th looks more likely for us at the moment.
 
VanGaalEra said:
They don't play for 16 days now, hopefully kills any momentum they've picked up from yesterday.
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We play 4 games before Liverpool play again. Liverpool have 4 games between now and the end of March.

It must be an incredibly dull end of season for them, would really piss me off to have so few games to look forward to.
 
Gee Male said:
We play 4 games before Liverpool play again. Liverpool have 4 games between now and the end of March.

It must be an incredibly dull end of season for them, would really piss me off to have so few games to look forward to.
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Reminds me of our 14/15 season, felt like we were hardly playing.
 
Gee Male said:
We play 4 games before Liverpool play again. Liverpool have 4 games between now and the end of March.

It must be an incredibly dull end of season for them, would really piss me off to have so few games to look forward to.
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3 games if Burnley beat their lower league opposition in the cup.

If Millwall-Leicester ends in a draw then Leicester-Liverpool scheduled for MNF would also have to be postponed because the replay would take place in that midweek.

A scenario where they play 2 games in 50 days is very much likely. That's basically 2 games in almost 20 % of the whole season. To even think some of the scousers in this thread were celebrating getting knocked out of the cups because it meant more rest.
 
Samid said:
3 games if Burnley beat their lower league opposition in the cup.

If Millwall-Leicester ends in a draw then Leicester-Liverpool scheduled for MNF would also have to be postponed because the replay would take place in that midweek.

A scenario where they play 2 games in 50 days is very much likely. That's basically 2 games in almost 20 % of the whole season. To even think some of the scousers in this thread were celebrating getting knocked out of the cups because it meant more rest.
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Worrying that that could mean they recharge and their paper thin squad gets back to 100% and they go back to their early season form. Hopefully not.
 
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