I saw Firmino commit two fouls one of which would have been a sure yellow before throwing Herrera to the ground which could have even been a red. So you aren't really one to speak here.I was watching part of the game again and its funny what different people see. I saw Pogba choke and then chuck Henderson to the ground, a straight yellow in most cases. Then while watching Herrera's pass to Mikhy I noticed Can moving in past Pogba to block the pass from Herrera only to be whacked deliberately on the face by Poggers. Can went down clutching his face. Another yellow card.
A red would have meant the referee denying Liverpool keeping their most valuable player on the pitch so you're right, its swings and roundabouts.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
United didn't need the win more. Both clubs dropped points and needed therm just as much. You more so if you're chasing a title. You lost ground on that whilst we got nearer to the top 4.
A Liverpool fan daring to accuse us/redcafe of hypocrisy? Seriously? Where do we even BEGIN with your lot! Stevie starfishs diving? Suarez? The mental gymnastics you put yourselves through to defend your players is hilarious.
It's not a coincidence that Klopp is the new "can do no wrong!" man that will be forgiven for being a lovable scamp for anything he does from now on. Even when he acts like a lunatic. Or parks the bus.
The long ball argument is such bs.
Firstly, stats about long balls are a bit misleading imo. A pinged, accurate 50 yard pass from the cb to the forward is deemed a 'long ball' just as much as a hoof from the keeper is.
More importantly, who cares? You don't win points based on stylistic points, you win them based on goals. If you have a clear weakness to long balls and height, that's your own problem. And if you can't deal with that tactic, you need to find a way to.
Firstly, stats about long balls are a bit misleading imo. A pinged, accurate 50 yard pass from the cb to the forward is deemed a 'long ball' just as much as a hoof from the keeper is.
More importantly, who cares? You don't win points based on stylistic points, you win them based on goals. If you have a clear weakness to long balls and height, that's your own problem. And if you can't deal with that tactic, you need to find a way to.
Klopp failing to grasp direct football is probably why he's won very little as a manager.
He should ask Jose to help him.
He should ask Jose to help him.
Also, herrera is a little dick.
But klopps antics were a bit embarrassing. When I first heard conflict on the sidelines, I thought they'd have been at each others throats, really going for each other.
Instead, I saw klopp, with very controlled anger, doing a 'hold me back' attack on mourinho and always positioning himself behind the fourth official whilst still maintaining the look of a mad dog.
What was the point?
But klopps antics were a bit embarrassing. When I first heard conflict on the sidelines, I thought they'd have been at each others throats, really going for each other.
Instead, I saw klopp, with very controlled anger, doing a 'hold me back' attack on mourinho and always positioning himself behind the fourth official whilst still maintaining the look of a mad dog.
What was the point?
Was there? I don't recall the offside.
Didn't you lose ground on the top four? You moved closer on 5th but Spurs in 2nd and Arsenal in 4th gained two points on United.
I seem to remember Klopp coming out and criticising Jose for stifling the game at Anfield. Yet Klopp then did the same at OT on Sunday. Plus he comes out with the long ball shite when in reality Liverpool played a few themselves.
Personally I don't mind long balls if they have a point to them or the fact teams shut up shop. But I do think Klopp has a selective memory and as much as I like him he comes over as a bitter man who refuses to acknowledge what actually happens and only is ever going to agree with his own perspective.
Agree with this and the guy above who favours the daylight rule. I'm getting tired of pundits highlighting how a player is leaning offside and therefore the lino is technically correct in flagging him. It would probably help the officials if the rule was changed back to the daylight interpretation, decisions would be more obvious and there would be less need for guessing.
I think you mean a moot point. Not being pedantic (it may well have been a typo), just trying to save you from that uncomfortable moment in real life when someone turns to you and says "did you say MUTE point!!!". Also you reminded me of Joey Tribbiani's moo point, still funny.
Question for Liverpool fans, did it happen till now that Klopp said or did something wrong.
Anything?
Even the smallest thing?
Anything?
Even the smallest thing?
No
He's rabid. Hasn't had his shot from the vet this year.
I guess they're referring to the bit where Rojo and Firmino challenge for the ball, just before Rojo clears it out for a corner. I haven't seen a real close up of it and despite seeing the replays a few times I couldn't say for sure who the ball comes off last.
Linesmen also expressly don't wage the flag until the offside player has touched it. So if Lallana went on and scored then the flag may have gone up. Right or wrong that's what I'm seeing more of in the PL.
Was he interfering with play?
I thought he handled Neville's criticism of Karius poorly. The fact that Karius was dropped immediately after that happened made Klopp look daft.
He's a loose cannon on the side of the pitch during games but that's never bothered me much. Most of what he says appears genuine to me, but he's a bit weird so it comes across as a bit disingenuous.
I suppose we're all affected by bias when it comes to our managers, especially when they're fairly new. I've found him very likeable so far but then he manages the side I support, so that's hardly surprising.
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What all this about long ball tactics? Thing is its a valid tactic in that game.
Utd had to change the game as Carrick wasn't able to cope with lallana pressing him. He basically shit his pants every time he came close so it was the right call from mourinho.
Think Liverpool can be best pleased with the result and possibly see it as two points dropped after holding out so long. I also can see Utd fans feeling the same with their chances early doors.
If you consider we had a 18yr old at RB. No Matip and a half fit hendo. I think we did OK.
Utd fans before the game we quite confident.
So much so that this guy from full time devils seemed to think someone was going to get bummed.
Utd had to change the game as Carrick wasn't able to cope with lallana pressing him. He basically shit his pants every time he came close so it was the right call from mourinho.
Think Liverpool can be best pleased with the result and possibly see it as two points dropped after holding out so long. I also can see Utd fans feeling the same with their chances early doors.
If you consider we had a 18yr old at RB. No Matip and a half fit hendo. I think we did OK.
Utd fans before the game we quite confident.
So much so that this guy from full time devils seemed to think someone was going to get bummed.
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
- interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
- interfering with an opponent by:
- preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
- challenging an opponent for the ball or
- clearly attempting to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent or
- making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
- gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
- rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent
- been deliberately saved by any opponent
- A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage.
I think he could technically come under the bit in bold because Rojo can't play the ball back to De Gea in that situation. He does make a movement towards the ball as well, so at a stretch attempting to play the ball or an obvious action which impacts the ability of an opponent. I don't think it could be considered clear cut though, and that's if Firmino was even the last one to touch the ball.
So he was offside then? As surely Rojo wouldn't have put it out for a corner if he wasn't there?
Firmino getting the last touch. Lallana clearly interfering with play. No doubt about the offside.
Fair enough.
Thats the response I expected.
Firmino getting the last touch. Lallana clearly interfering with play. No doubt about the offside.
Excellent!
Firmino getting the last touch. Lallana clearly interfering with play. No doubt about the offside.
I think there 3 problems with us arguing that too passionately
1 - the last 2 touches might both be off Utd players, I can't tell, tbh
2 - how do you expect the lino to see it? - (also see Valencia, but no one has mentioned that)
3 - if the 2nd last touch is from an attacker, then a tackle is made - bear with me here - then the ball never reaches the 'offside' player, who under these rules, then never becomes 'active' & it seems fine to give the corner like nothing much has happened - there was a more glaring example of this in some other game very recently that I can't remember,which looked really stupid - advantage to the attacking team though innit?
A balanced comment! Though I wouldn't expect anything less from you Kloppers, you're a fair guy (most of the times!
)He doesn't touch the ball imo, totally miskicks it and then Rojo touches the ball. From the way the ball is rolling after his first touch takes it away from Jones, I can't see a change of direction or course of the ball.
I'll carry on with my (3) to ram the point home cos I'm really annoyed with it actually (in a general context)
You end up with a situation where any last touch off a defender seems to be ok - ''ooh look he's been done played back onside, triffic'' says Jamie Redknapp - which is utter bollocks isn't it?
If you're stood 10 yards off when your team mate passes the ball forward, possibly to you. You don't magically get put back onside cos some wally of a defender has carved the ball up in the air & over his own head to you, do you?
/ rant
You end up with a situation where any last touch off a defender seems to be ok - ''ooh look he's been done played back onside, triffic'' says Jamie Redknapp - which is utter bollocks isn't it?
If you're stood 10 yards off when your team mate passes the ball forward, possibly to you. You don't magically get put back onside cos some wally of a defender has carved the ball up in the air & over his own head to you, do you?
/ rant
Thats the response I expected.
Tbf I didn't like the jumping round after the row with mourinho. A little embarrassing that.
Put it this way, If a mate did that in the pub you would take his pint of him and tell him to "tighten his nuts."
What does that even mean? Clearly he passes it forward, misskick or not, it's still played to a player who is offside.
Depends on a lot of factors. e.g. did your position 10 yards off side influence the defender and so on. But you could easily make the case, and I suspect this is how it would go in real-life, that the defender slicing it constitutes a deliberate touch, and therefore starts a new phase of offside where the players in your scenario is actually onside.
Surprised that more isn't made about his "hold me back, la!" moment at the sidelines towards Mourinho and the 4th official. He truly looks like a trailer tramp bitten by a rabies infected dog four weeks prior.
If it was Mourinho it would be all over the media with how he is beginning to loose it, what a loose cannon he is etc.
If it was Mourinho it would be all over the media with how he is beginning to loose it, what a loose cannon he is etc.
That's a very good explanation actually, thank you. Is that how they get there? Bloody hell. You can see how final touches from defenders are all getting ignored then, isn't it? As a base starting point for lino decision-making, just easier innit.
(I knew about having it passed to you, interception of back pass & so forth)
It looks to me like Rojo is the one who touches it forward as he tackles Firmino. After dispossessing Jones Roberto seems to be trying to cut inside onto his left foot but Rojo gets the tackle in.
Either way it's certainly not clear.
I didn't know about that. He does anything that will win over the Liverpool fans. He knows what he's doing.
I mean that Firmino doesn't touch the ball anymore after he takes if off Jones. The last time he touces it (imo), Lallana is clearly onside. After that, it's Rojo who handles the ball, not Firmino.
That's what I think happened, yes.
Am I missing anything about the uproar about this?
Mou played defensively at Anfield; United-fans applauded him, Pool-fans laughed.
Klopp played defensively at OT; Liverpool-fans applauded him, United-fans laughed.
To claim that either side is hypocritical without aknowledging the fact that they are so themselves is quite silly.
Long balls have a place in the game, spesifically when dealing with an immense pressure in the opposition half like Liverpool are very good at. There is one sure way to counter this pressure without risking the ball in dangerous positions, and that is aiming the ball at the massive man you have upfront. It's a way of dealing with a certain thread, just the same as playing it out from the back/applying high pressure/parking the bus/whatever.
I'm certain that neither side are satisfied with how the game turned out, as we both know that the teams can play much better than we both showed. Draw is a bit of a 'meh' result for either side, and it's silly for anyone to claim some sort of moral victory.
Mou played defensively at Anfield; United-fans applauded him, Pool-fans laughed.
Klopp played defensively at OT; Liverpool-fans applauded him, United-fans laughed.
To claim that either side is hypocritical without aknowledging the fact that they are so themselves is quite silly.
Long balls have a place in the game, spesifically when dealing with an immense pressure in the opposition half like Liverpool are very good at. There is one sure way to counter this pressure without risking the ball in dangerous positions, and that is aiming the ball at the massive man you have upfront. It's a way of dealing with a certain thread, just the same as playing it out from the back/applying high pressure/parking the bus/whatever.
I'm certain that neither side are satisfied with how the game turned out, as we both know that the teams can play much better than we both showed. Draw is a bit of a 'meh' result for either side, and it's silly for anyone to claim some sort of moral victory.