Firmino getting the last touch. Lallana clearly interfering with play. No doubt about the offside.
Que ? Are we watching different videos ?
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Que ? Are we watching different videos ?
Yes, there is slight revisionism in saying that a draw suited us (if anyone has made that claim, not sure). We needed, and wanted, a win. Liverpool are probably happy with a draw, all things considered. With that said, given that both clubs lost ground at the weekend relative to the others in the top 6, a draw really suited neither.
With that said, a draw is neither chatastrophic nor season-ending. 17 more matches to go, and top 4 is still attainable for both teams, and perhaps the title still for LFC, although I don't think anyone will catch Chelsea to be honest.
I said before, we should have just swapped victories!
Speed typing on phone matey was a mistake I know it's moot but I did write mute ha, meh gave the guy a chance to reply on my grammar mistake rather than carry on the debate.
I thought the same ha
Better team uh.. Klopp?
Wow! A balanced view from Liverpool fan. Am I dreaming?
On the bolded. Definitely. If someone didn't watch the match and look only at highlight they will think it's United who dominated the match. 3 or 4 great chances in the 1st half alone vs. a Liverpool gifted penalty.
Most United fans though think a draw is deserved.. because we can't play our game due to pressing. And that's alright. Liverpool played very disciplined and the players gave it all (more than ours). We are showing though, despite the difficulty, we're still able to create chances (I don't know anyone noticed but Mhiki involved in our best 3 chances of the match. He's really creative), and that is a good sign.
On 4. Yes. We're having problems when pressed. This game and City game show the flaw in our team. Hopefully Mourinho can learn and adapt to beat this system for once.
I haven't really said my bit about the game (just been generally, and understandably, wumming
1. I would have snapped your arm and shoulder off for a draw before kickoff. Even when we scored I was hoping it would be enough to hold on for a draw (a win would be nice obviously but I wanted to manage expectations). On balance, and despite what my fellow fans and Klopp are saying, we were definitely lucky with just a draw.
2. I wish Klopp would stop talking about long balls and deserving to win against a long ball team. Its making him look silly, even if it may be mind games (which I don't think it is as there is no point). Mourinho on the other hand has surprised me, I was expecting a lot more histrionics and comments other than us 'being defensive'. Maybe he's letting Klopp continue digging while no one questions Utd still being 6th.
3. The players I feared before kickoff were Mata (really clever player, loves scoring against us), Rashford (crazy legs pace and composed assisting) and Fellaini (clever movement to win headers inside and outside the box). One cost us the win (Fellaini), one didn't play and one came on when the game went long ball. It could have been worse for us so maybe a mistake there by Mourinho.
4. Utd will win a lot of games with the players they have as long they are not pressed. This will be particularly useful as they have a long run of easy games coming up in which they will definitely not be pressed.
Wow! A balanced view from Liverpool fan. Am I dreaming?
On the bolded. Definitely. If someone didn't watch the match and look only at highlight they will think it's United who dominated the match. 3 or 4 great chances in the 1st half alone vs. a Liverpool gifted penalty.
Most United fans though think a draw is deserved.. because we can't play our game due to pressing. And that's alright. Liverpool played very disciplined and the players gave it all (more than ours). We are showing though, despite the difficulty, we're still able to create chances (I don't know anyone noticed but Mhiki involved in our best 3 chances of the match. He's really creative), and that is a good sign.
On 4. Yes. We're having problems when pressed. This game and City game show the flaw in our team. Hopefully Mourinho can learn and adapt to beat this system for once.
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Better team uh.. Klopp?
Wow! A balanced view from Liverpool fan. Am I dreaming?
On the bolded. Definitely. If someone didn't watch the match and look only at highlight they will think it's United who dominated the match. 3 or 4 great chances in the 1st half alone vs. a Liverpool gifted penalty.
Most United fans though think a draw is deserved.. because we can't play our game due to pressing. And that's alright. Liverpool played very disciplined and the players gave it all (more than ours). We are showing though, despite the difficulty, we're still able to create chances (I don't know anyone noticed but Mhiki involved in our best 3 chances of the match. He's really creative), and that is a good sign.
On 4. Yes. We're having problems when pressed. This game and City game show the flaw in our team. Hopefully Mourinho can learn and adapt to beat this system for once.
The pressing issue isn't just something that Mourinho can 'learn' to combat this season. He will need the players to enable his vision if that is the case. When he bought Ibrahimovic, Pogba and Mikhy in the summer my very first thought was they won't run much*. Now you add your best controlling midfielder in there (Carrick) and that's even less running. Managers choose their strategies early and have to live and die by it. The lack of finishing is hurting too obviously and that has taken everyone by surprise, even me. Pleasantly in my case.
What Mourinho could do is drop Pogba, Ibra and Carrick for the remaining top 6 games, replacing them with workhorses, but can you imagine the uproar if that happened. So Jose is sort of stuck with his choices for now.
*I'm qualifying this by saying these players are super fit but not quite geared to the the type of football that some teams play. Mikhy has played for Dortmund but he's not quite a Lallana type, for example. Vice versa, Lallana is nowhere as talented as Mikhy either.
Well I didn't see a game anything like Anfield and the long ball is a viable tactic under certain circumstances - of which the high press is one, especially when United have players and tall and powerful as Ibra, Pogba and Fellaini. I don't agree with Klopp criticising that, probably he was just very emotional after having surrendered a victory with 10 mins to go, that's not an excuse, just a reasonable explanation. As he says himself, if you ask him the next day he'll often give you a different, more measured response.
LoL oh dear. Good luck trying to make it to the mains with posts of that quality. There is so much there to be torn to pieces but really, with the acumen you've displayed in that post, it's really not worth it.
Yeah good point. I hadn't thought of that scenario applying to that situation but it could be a viable explanation.
The pressing issue isn't just something that Mourinho can 'learn' to combat this season. He will need the players to enable his vision if that is the case. When he bought Ibrahimovic, Pogba and Mikhy in the summer my very first thought was they won't run much*. Now you add your best controlling midfielder in there (Carrick) and that's even less running. Managers choose their strategies early and have to live and die by it. The lack of finishing is hurting too obviously and that has taken everyone by surprise, even me. Pleasantly in my case.
What Mourinho could do is drop Pogba, Ibra and Carrick for the remaining top 6 games, replacing them with workhorses, but can you imagine the uproar if that happened. So Jose is sort of stuck with his choices for now.
*I'm qualifying this by saying these players are super fit but not quite geared to the the type of football that some teams play. Mikhy has played for Dortmund but he's not quite a Lallana type, for example. Vice versa, Lallana is nowhere as talented as Mikhy either.
We only need to change personnel if we want to match a press with a press. That's one option, but its clear the Mourinho doesn't favour pressing from the front other than in isolated bursts, I dont see him building a team like that. The other is simply to bypass the press by sending the ball over the top of the press. In both the City and the Liverpool games we switched to that at half time and in both matches it changed the tide of the game (though sadly not the result vs City).
Playing it long may not be pretty, but then neither is two teams pressing each other. Sometimes winnings all that matters.
Indeed that is the right assessment. Some posters just don't like it no matter how you coat it though.
One point that needs to be pointed out - when people say their team didn't play well - is that they fail to acknowledge the influence of the opposition in that equation. Often in these high profile matches between top teams, that often fail to live up to their billing, it's simply because they are both very good teams that much of their work is nullified by the opposition due to their quality. Due credit is rarely given (by any opposition fan) to the other team in these scenarios, it's always 'you were lucky we didn't play to our usual / current high standard'.
Pressing isn't pretty full stop, it can destroy a match. Not sure why it's labeled as so much more dignified than sending the ball long. Both are almost equally as destructive to the quality of a football match.
Moderators were probably bored and tired of this thread so they moved it into the Football forum subsection (less viewers and posters) 
Someone said it - forget who.
Definitely a draw at OT is never a result to turn your nose up at. And it needs it be taken into context - it doesn't matter what Chelsea did at Leicester if in the respective return fixtures we win at Leicester and United beat Chelsea at OT. We will have gained a point.
The pressing issue isn't just something that Mourinho can 'learn' to combat this season. He will need the players to enable his vision if that is the case. When he bought Ibrahimovic, Pogba and Mikhy in the summer my very first thought was they won't run much*. Now you add your best controlling midfielder in there (Carrick) and that's even less running. Managers choose their strategies early and have to live and die by it. The lack of finishing is hurting too obviously and that has taken everyone by surprise, even me. Pleasantly in my case.
What Mourinho could do is drop Pogba, Ibra and Carrick for the remaining top 6 games, replacing them with workhorses, but can you imagine the uproar if that happened. So Jose is sort of stuck with his choices for now.
*I'm qualifying this by saying these players are super fit but not quite geared to the the type of football that some teams play. Mikhy has played for Dortmund but he's not quite a Lallana type, for example. Vice versa, Lallana is nowhere as talented as Mikhy either.
I see what you're saying but I very much doubt Jose would make such changes simply to combat a Liverpool side that has still failed to score a goal against us from open play. .
United can play their way and Liverpool can play theirs. We are unbeaten in 16 games and have the joint PL top scorer so we must be doing something right although there are always areas to improve upon.
I expect we will add a midfielder in the summer considering the links we had with Kante.
Obviously you won't get the same freedom and can't play the same game against different opposition. Some people say that Martial has had a bad game but I remember 2-3 Liverpool players around him whenever he was on the ball, that definitely affected his game (or Lallana on Carrick).
Pogba had a really bad game, and I don't think this was due to the game being against Liverpool.
I generally think Klopp did a great job in setting your team to nullify our strengths. I think a lot of our fans don't give credit to you mainly because of his post-match comments.
Agreed. Klopp talked absolute dross at the end so no one is going to give him any praise.
In addition the way the scouse had a go at Jose for totally nulifiying them at Anfield then they come and play like that at OT kind of makes it all a bit hypocritical.
The rules are more or less like that since refs and linesman aren't supposed to make a call unless they're sure about it.
He is clearly frustrated and rightly so. They came to OT playing for a draw, got a lucky penalty and couldn't hold on to the lead.
Klopp is very aware of himself and play's up to the camera all the time.
I keep reading this but it's utter bullshit imo. A manager being fanatic and theatrical along the sideline doesn't necessarily mean he's aware of the cameras, it just means he's passionate. He can't possible know what is being broadcast, and he's way too involved during the game to give a single feck about some cameras being pointed at him. As he should be.
I agree that he knows how to play up to the media (and fans) before and after games, but I don't believe for a moment that he does the things he does during the game to attract attention.
How do you know that, if he plays up for the media before and after the game it's very possible he does it sometimes during games too.
I disagree with that. Klopp knows exactly what he is doing and when to play up to camera's during games. And more so than any other manager.
Because he's way too invested in games to care about stuff like that. Besides, from the 95mins that a football game lasts, the cameras are probably on the managers for around one minute. You think, while trying to coach his side, trying to adjust to the game situation and numerous other things he has to do during a PL game, he has time to think about how he should act, for the less than 1% probability that the cameras might effectively be on him at that particular moment? No chance. Managers like Conte and him are all about passion and emotion on the pitch and it has nothing to do with trying to act in a particular way for the media to take notice.
Go on believing that if you really want to.
So during a game he's all about passion but after and prior to the game he acts up for the camera. During a game he just switches off?
Same as you said to @Red Katie, go on believing that if you want to.
He doesn't switch off, he switches to game mode. If I play football, I give my all during those 90mins but before and after the game you can be friends with the opposition and all should be forgiven. I really don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
Well you play football like that, some don't. It's nothing to understand or not understand, it's your opinion with which I don't agree with.
So you really think that, in the 90th minute of a passionate derby, after an opposing player committed a blatant foul that denied us a counter-attack, he thought by himself: "feck, this is my chance to play up to the cameras, let's go berserk against the fourth official and Mourinho so everyone will be talking about me after the game"? Because that's what Red Katie was implying.
It has been mentioned in other threads. Ive read and seen pundits say it wasn't offside as he never touched it.
He did make a meal of it. It's one thing to be angry about it which I get, it's another to act like a clown about it which he did.
If he was trying to play up to the cameras, why would he be acting like a madman whilst doing it? Makes absolutely no sense.
Yup
As you say he should learn from that then and just say I will tell you tomorrow as today I am not best placed to give you an unbiased view lol fair enough
Its not just the game, or games, against Liverpool though. Utd sit comfortably at the bottom of the top 6 league table and comfortably in 6th place in the league table overall despite any good run of form. A Kante type would be ideal for Utd's midfield, the fact you don't already have one even with all the riches is yet another mistake imo. Klopp's made his too (not buying CBs, not enough midfield cover, etc) but Liverpool have fewer games to play this season and shown no problems with top 6 teams to give him some benefit of the doubt.
Am I wrong in thinking Utd were in for Kante during the summer?
Firmino getting the last touch. Lallana clearly interfering with play. No doubt about the offside.
Sure Fimino making that pass to Lallana and Lallana attacking the ball from an offside position technically could have been given offside. We can't just bring up offsides, minor fouls etc. in build up to argue against the validity of a goal. I suspect these marginal offside calls go unnoticed plenty of times during a game and based on technicalities we'd be ruling out a big proportion of goals.
We had a fair chance to defend a corner which we bottled so it's our own doing.
I said a draw was fine for Utd, keeps the momentum moving forward. Keeps us in contact with everyone apart from Chelsea. It's fine, it's not as good as winning but it's fine. Not 'mighty fine' in the American sense, just comfortably OK in the wussy English sense.
Didn't mean it as being totally tremendous or anything. A loss would have sent two teams totally away from us & lost ground on 2 more. Losing would have been real bad is what I am feeling.
I believe Klopp's general touchline character is half-planned in the generic sense. I don't suppose he pre-plans every reaction but you're not telling me he doesn't realise the extrvagant celebrations and constant presence in the technical area aren't effective tools in building a positive rapport with the LFC support, in order to get a beneficial & increased supportive response from the LFC support. He talks about building an overall identity doesn't he? For the 90 minutes he is an actor in a role, if you like, it fulfils a (designed) purpose. SAF used to do it, I'd say the irate charge down from the dugout got to be SAF's trademark in the later years, and would have an effect.
Didn't mean it as being totally tremendous or anything. A loss would have sent two teams totally away from us & lost ground on 2 more. Losing would have been real bad is what I am feeling.
I believe Klopp's general touchline character is half-planned in the generic sense. I don't suppose he pre-plans every reaction but you're not telling me he doesn't realise the extrvagant celebrations and constant presence in the technical area aren't effective tools in building a positive rapport with the LFC support, in order to get a beneficial & increased supportive response from the LFC support. He talks about building an overall identity doesn't he? For the 90 minutes he is an actor in a role, if you like, it fulfils a (designed) purpose. SAF used to do it, I'd say the irate charge down from the dugout got to be SAF's trademark in the later years, and would have an effect.
Feckwits.
I think Klopp is actually considering to let him play tomorrow, might advance the situation a bit.
Agree with you, particularly on the draw
The pressing issue isn't just something that Mourinho can 'learn' to combat this season. He will need the players to enable his vision if that is the case. When he bought Ibrahimovic, Pogba and Mikhy in the summer my very first thought was they won't run much*. Now you add your best controlling midfielder in there (Carrick) and that's even less running. Managers choose their strategies early and have to live and die by it. The lack of finishing is hurting too obviously and that has taken everyone by surprise, even me. Pleasantly in my case.
What Mourinho could do is drop Pogba, Ibra and Carrick for the remaining top 6 games, replacing them with workhorses, but can you imagine the uproar if that happened. So Jose is sort of stuck with his choices for now.
*I'm qualifying this by saying these players are super fit but not quite geared to the the type of football that some teams play. Mikhy has played for Dortmund but he's not quite a Lallana type, for example. Vice versa, Lallana is nowhere as talented as Mikhy either.
Great reply. Putting it like this I have to agree. We won't stop struggling against this kind of team soon. (I wanted to reply to your post sooner but my credit ran out.
)Now seeing you are Liverpool fan and have a very good understanding of the game. Could you explain to me, since I rarely watch Liverpool this season, Why Liverpool didn't have good record against teams outside top 6?
I know your defense is weak, so anyone playing you will always have a few chances, like we had. And your goal keepers are a bit suspected. But what is really Liverpool problem finishing weaker teams off? And why is that? Seeing your weaker team (No Matip, Mané, Coutinho for long period) played very disciplined against our strongest side makes me wonder.