They will be fine in regards to relegation but it would be hilarious.
Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund
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I doubt that. They still performed well int he CL before the crisis really had hit home but in the last couple of group games against Anderlecht and Arsenal you cold already see that the lack of confidence was affecting them in the CL as well. They might perform better against them as they did of late in the Bundesliga but I doubt they stand much of a chance against Juve.
The players are worn out, mentally and physically - his methods are demanding, so, what they need is a fresh start. He's still a top manager, anyone who is saying otherwise based on half a season is erm....a bit thick. It's another test of his mettle, another thing to learn, another challenge to adapt to, a situation to make him look at what he could change, adapt and bring into his management, he is better than what he and his team are currently showing now.
The new signings shouldn't be though. Immobile, Ramos, Reus, Aubameyang, Kampl, Mhikitaryan, Sokratis, Durm, Ginter, Jojic haven't won anything with Dortmund yet. Kagawa and Sahin shouldn't be worn out either, they knew what they could expect from Klopp and decided to come back. That's pretty much a full first team that should fight at least for the EL places in the league.
Don't think they are worn out and I don't think Dortmund's approach is anymore more demanding than that of other teams in the Bundesliga or in any of the other top leagues tbh. The players are simply scared to make mistakes and take responsibility. Especially the attacking department has become slow, imprecise and predictable because of the mental slowness they are currently suffering from due to their fear. Klopp needs to find a way to get that fear out of their heads and make them trust in their abilities again but that's easier said than done apparently.
You could argue the best thing for everyone would be a change in management and a change in approach. Its no coincidence that bringing in a new manager to a struggling side often gets things moving forward again and gets immediate results.
However poorly they are currently doing they still have a superb squad. What players would you take from them?
Lucky for him that he is and somehow gets rated among the good defenders despite being a very average one at best.
Hummels,Subotic, Ginter, Bender and Reus.
Pretty good on the ball though. But yes, I agree. He was a talented young player with obvious flaws,far from a great defender yet. The longer he was out the better his reputation got. I think he could be an excellent addition to a Guardiola side, but if he doesn't stay healthy for a full season, we'll never know.
Wouldn't chance it on Gundogan or Sokratis?
Sokratis i think is the fourth best CB there(Ginter will surpass him in the futre) while having another injury prone midfielder really doesn't sound good. No matter how talented.
Almost all of that post is wrong
Hello guys, what say you now? Although I suppose this is why MW was eliminated
(My original post followed by some of the replies)
It's not fair when you used your evil superpowers to get the result you predicted. Stop betting on Dortmund, let's see what happens and then we can talk.Hello guys, what say you now? Although I suppose this is why MW was eliminated
(My original post followed by some of the replies)
Dont deny you love it.
I saw things back then, not just the team on paper. They put in a couple of good CL performances, but they looked finished. I still believe they will survive relegation, but Im not sure they will finish in the top half and then the exodus will ensue.
Hello guys, what say you now? Although I suppose this is why MW was eliminated
(My original post followed by some of the replies)
That doesn't change the fact that your prediction was unlikely at that point. Two of your three points werent proven right (yet) btw.
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Oh I enjoy it, no doubt. I don't want them to go down though.Dont deny you love it.
Agreed, but its always nice to be able to come back in hindsight when you have been ridiculed and say my feelings were justified! Unless they get some confidence pretty quick I think Juve will beat them, as they looked pretty poor in their last few CL games as well.
Sokratis has been their best defender, hasn't he?
Yes.
This year? Probably yes. Although that might just be down to form. Still rate Hummels and subotic higher.
Did you bet on it?Hello guys, what say you now? Although I suppose this is why MW was eliminated
(My original post followed by some of the replies)
Subotic has been poor for a while. Not sure if he has the quality.
You could argue Sokratis' aggressive approach would make him the best suited to the premier league.
Perhaps, although for only £16m Gundogan must be worth a punt.
I don't follow the German league but I read the other day that Dortmund had lost 2-1 to some team and were sitting bottom of the league (but 2 points from safety). How severe are their chances of going down? Surely head's will roll if they do? Klopp's always banging out about how the Dortmund system makes the players look better than they are which is why they never perform as well at new clubs. Is there a chance his system is bust?
This thread would have been better with Mad Winger in it.Hello guys, what say you now? Although I suppose this is why MW was eliminated
(My original post followed by some of the replies)
They drew 0-0 away which was fairly credible at Bayer Lev, but then lost 0-1 at home to Augsburg who are now 4th. They are only 2 points and -3 GD from safety but they are 17 points off 4th spot and 15 off any sort of European football.
their next games are against Freiburg, Mainz and Stuttgart. Those three clubs are struggling as well. If they cant pick up at least 4 points they are in real danger of going down. Klopp might resign, if those three games go terribly wrong.
I have never heard him say that. There are a few people around who claim that this is the case to explain why those players failed at other clubs. It's also not Klopp's tactics that have failed, they are trying a completely different approach atm but the problems remain the same. The final ball isn't coming due to players being too afraid of making mistakes. It's mainly a mental problem imo but Klopp seems to have run out of idea's on how to solve them. He also looks like this he has aged 10 years over the last half season.
If they really go down this season I feel more than just Klopp's head will role. I'm pretty sure a relegation would also cost Watzke and Zorc their jobs as CEO and sports director. Especially Zorc who is largely responsible for transfers has come under a lot of critique as well for the transfers that haven't worked out so far.
4 is not enough, especially if the loss is in Freiburg.
The opportunity cost of having him means we won't really sign another midfielder. That'd why I don't think it's worth it. If we can get him and one more then it's a gamble worth taking.
Thanks for the very thorough update. I think I read the system thing on the BBC's website from an interview with Klopp. I tried to find it but I couldn't. Well I'm sure there's at least two players we could pick up from their team if they go down or even if they don't. Klopp will need to clear out the weak next season if they want to bounce back strong.
True. Considering that they are last they need to win at least two of these games and not lose the third if they want to get back into the game. Hard to see it though as their worst performances always seem to have come against the weakest teams in the league.
Should the worst happen and they lose all three of these game Klopp has to take his hat for the good of the club, it would be their last chance at this stage to try a new manager imo.
That would be beyond stupid.
Well Watzke may survive it but I'm certain Zorc wouldn't. He is already getting a lot of the blame for the bad transfers and the way I have read it so far from Dortmund fans the overwhelming opinion is that if Klopp goes, he has to go as well and I can understand it considering that the last two season were pretty much wasted in terms of transfers. Once Zorc and Klopp started going for established players their transfer-hit quota seemed to have decreased rapidly and I'm pretty sure that's not Klopp's fault alone.
@Balu what is the general feeling of the Dortmund fans towards the manager and team over there? Is this "echte liebe" (that right?) Concept still prominent or are they starting to turn due to the results?
I honestly don't know, I don't read any German football boards anymore, they're so annoying. The few Dortmund fans I know have mixed feelings. They're angry, but also don't want to lose Klopp, because of what he has done for the club. It doesn't make any sense, so they don't know what to feel. But I can't speak for the majority of Dortmund fans. Maybe @Sphaero can tell you more about it. The fans in the stadium on Wednesday looked pretty angry though.
They still need stability though and it's difficult enough to find a decent director of football, let alone a good one.
Out of interest, would people still want klopp if he gets the sack?
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