Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player

[Boavista]

except maybe Fuchs, as he is a very mediocre player.

Obviously not an exceptional player, but he played an important part in Leicester's title winning team nonetheless. So did Okazaki more or less.

I don't see why players like that shouldn't count as successful, when neither of them were mercurial talents in Germany either.

In general that often gets ignored when judging transfers. Take Xhaka for instance. For a long time he probably counted as a failure, but he kind of just kept being the same player he was in Germany, showing some promise but plenty of flaws too. Just he was younger then so you would have hoped for him to develop more/sooner. That's disappointing too, but it's not like he was worse than he was for Gladbach. On the other end you have someone like Son, who if I'm honest I never thought would develop into quite the player he has in the PL, despite his obvious talent.

It's really more a matter of expectations. Fuchs wasn't brought in as a world class left back, but he succeeded to the level he showed previously I'd say.

 

[Pintu]

Bellingham now just one goal away from equalling Eden Hazard's La Liga record in four seasons at Real Madrid after just two games.

 

[carvajal]

Impossible to start better, confirming the good feelings of the pre-season.
A lot of arrivals to the box, good combinations, goals, assists and a hard worker.
He has a lot of presence throughout the match.
He also seems to have adapted well in the dressing room.
There is a word in Spanish which is "tribunero"(something like grandstander?) a player who plays and talks a lot to win the favour of the public, who says how much he loves the club constantly, little white hearts everywhere, etc(Vini is very tribunero for example), and not in a pejorative way he is being one, which with his humility is sure to go down well.
Besides, he's already said some words in Spanish after every game, perfect for currying favor with the most bilious fans

 

[carlbcfc]

Ligue 1 players have probably the highest success rate of all the top leagus, and that would include over PL as well, as I'm sure in the last 10 years there has been more success cases from Ligue 1 players than PL players when moving abroad...

The vast majority of those guys are of African origin. France pretty much imports from the continent of Africa. Germany more native German.

 

[carlbcfc]

Impossible to start better, confirming the good feelings of the pre-season.
A lot of arrivals to the box, good combinations, goals, assists and a hard worker.
He has a lot of presence throughout the match.
He also seems to have adapted well in the dressing room.
There is a word in Spanish which is "tribunero"(something like grandstander?) a player who plays and talks a lot to win the favour of the public, who says how much he loves the club constantly, little white hearts everywhere, etc(Vini is very tribunero for example), and not in a pejorative way he is being one, which with his humility is sure to go down well.
Besides, he's already said some words in Spanish after every game, perfect for currying favor with the most bilious fans

And to think this is the first season where he has been exclusively used the number 10 role.

 

[FrankFoot]

The vast majority of those guys are of African origin. France pretty much imports from the continent of Africa. Germany more native German.

What this had do with my statement?

I acknowledge that there are many african players in Ligue 1, but before they got to a top 4 league they first move to France, or even Netherlands and Belgium, they rarely go straight to Spain/England/Italy from Africa, so they count as Ligue 1 players.

And Ligue 1 players are basically the most successful overall when playing abroad, also not many spanish,english, italian, and germans outside of their country.

 

[autopilot]

Cheaper then Rice or Caicedo

Roughly the same, no? Recall there being some add-ons which you would assume he activates considering the way he's playing. Incredible start to his Real Madrid career. Been far too long since English players in their prime played outside of England, which makes for a nice change as well.

 

[Lecland07]

Roughly the same, no? Recall there being some add-ons which you would assume he activates considering the way he's playing. Incredible start to his Real Madrid career. Been far too long since English players in their prime played outside of England, which makes for a nice change as well.

Bellingham: £88.5m
Rice: £100m
Caicedo: £100m

These are the base amounts. Cheaper at the moment, at least.

 

[CallyRed]

Best thing out of West Midlands since Lenny Henry.

 

[carlbcfc]

Best thing out of West Midlands since Lenny Henry.

Lenny was ferried to the Commonwealth Stadium from home last year for the games in Birmingham. His manager/agency approached the driver and allegedly said, ‘Lenny doesn’t want to speak today!’ And did not speak for the journey.

His only allegedly words were ‘what a shithole when he got to Birmingham’

He’s from Dudley, not Birmingham btw!

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

lowkey don’t trust Ancelotti to get the best out of him without marginalising Camavinga going forward

 

[stefan92]

And to think this is the first season where he has been exclusively used the number 10 role.

Hard to claim that after just two matches, isn't it? I wouldn't be surprised to see him in other roles in Real's midfield as well, depending on the situation, as he is flexible enough.

But either way Real's midfield diamond definitely is amazing - having four (relatively) young players who are all ready to start and the two experienced Kroos and Modric who have seen and won it all should be a terrific mix for this season.

 

[RC89]

Are Dortmund going to retire his shirt number?

So I met their head of ticketing in something of an informal meeting. I asked why on Earth they retired his number. He tells me it's because the Chinese owners were unaware of football tradition in England but were so happy he signed a new contract that would guarantee the club significant sums when he could have potentially left for free. They were so made up about it they painted a mural and retired his number

 

[Zehner]

I'm not saying there aren't good or great players that come from Bundesliga, but it's an indisputable fact that there are far more successful players that come from Ligue 1 or La Liga in comparison to Bundesliga. That's not shitting on the league. The general quality in Bundesliga is just lower than the other top leagues, and is probably the reason why not a lot of PL clubs buy players from Bundesliga.

The 'indisputable fact' actually is your selective perception because it has been that way at United. If United had been targeting Serie A, La Liga or Ligue 1 players primarily, you'd be lamenting that. Look at Bellingham - Madrid brings him in and Ancelotti actually thinks how to integrate him, then changes the formation to create a position in which he can play to his strengthes. You guys bring in players and have no idea how to get the best out of them.

The only examples outside of United you could come up with are Havertz and Werner. But those two won a UCL with Chelsea as starters and at least Havertz has been overall solid even if not as good as Chelsea hoped - plus he was played out of position as well. Arsenal and Arteta are seemingly still convinced of his quality.

On the other hand you have countless examples of Bundesliga players making it at elite clubs, in many cases playeds who had lower profiles when the switched clubs than Sancho, Bellingham and co. Gündogan, Lewandowski, Rüdiger, Carvajal, Bellingham, Kroos, Alaba, De Bruyne, Akanji, Sané, Xhaka, Aubameyang, Thiago, Matip, Firmino and Son all were successes at elite clubs with a Bundesliga past. Feel free to together a list of the failures.

 

[Zehner]

Hard to claim that after just two matches, isn't it? I wouldn't be surprised to see him in other roles in Real's midfield as well, depending on the situation, as he is flexible enough.

But either way Real's midfield diamond definitely is amazing - having four (relatively) young players who are all ready to start and the two experienced Kroos and Modric who have seen and won it all should be a terrific mix for this season.

I'm looking forward to the duels with Barca. Right now I'm not convinced this system works against elite teams while it may be excellent to break down weaker ones.

That being said, I remember Real did something similar when Zidane wanted to include Isco in the starting line up and if I'm not mistaken it won them the UCL. Definitely a team to watch this season

 

[RedRonaldo]

If Real win CL he might win Ballon D’or. I think he is that good.

 

[zaafi]

The 'indisputable fact' actually is your selective perception because it has been that way at United. If United had been targeting Serie A, La Liga or Ligue 1 players primarily, you'd be lamenting that. Look at Bellingham - Madrid brings him in and Ancelotti actually thinks how to integrate him, then changes the formation to create a position in which he can play to his strengthes. You guys bring in players and have no idea how to get the best out of them.

The only examples outside of United you could come up with are Havertz and Werner. But those two won a UCL with Chelsea as starters and at least Havertz has been overall solid even if not as good as Chelsea hoped - plus he was played out of position as well. Arsenal and Arteta are seemingly still convinced of his quality.

On the other hand you have countless examples of Bundesliga players making it at elite clubs, in many cases playeds who had lower profiles when the switched clubs than Sancho, Bellingham and co. Gündogan, Lewandowski, Rüdiger, Carvajal, Bellingham, Kroos, Alaba, De Bruyne, Akanji, Sané, Xhaka, Aubameyang, Thiago, Matip, Firmino and Son all were successes at elite clubs with a Bundesliga past. Feel free to together a list of the failures.

Bellingham was already considered one of the brightest talents at 16 in Championship, as was Haaland when he was smashing in goals for Salzburg in both league and CL before he went to Dortmund.

That list of yours is about all of the player you could think of. Why do you think you could list about three times as many more players from Ligue 1 and La Liga?

 

[CallyRed]

Lenny was ferried to the Commonwealth Stadium from home last year for the games in Birmingham. His manager/agency approached the driver and allegedly said, ‘Lenny doesn’t want to speak today!’ And did not speak for the journey.

His only allegedly words were ‘what a shithole when he got to Birmingham’

He’s from Dudley, not Birmingham btw!

Hence I chose West Midlands

 

[Member 109952]

Be interesting to see how Real far against better teams. Don't think playing without a striker will give them enough goals throughout the season, but we'll see. They did get dominated vs City so maybe the extra man in midfield (alongside playing younger legs) will do them good.

 

[Red Rash]

Sad to think we wanted Bellingham and Haaland a few years ago and ended up with neither. They would have filled both of our most urgent priorities

 

[Zehner]

Bellingham was already considered one of the brightest talents at 16 in Championship, as was Haaland when he was smashing in goals for Salzburg in both league and CL before he went to Dortmund.

So?

That list of yours is about all of the player you could think of. Why do you think you could list about three times as many more players from Ligue 1 and La Liga?

I don't think you can make such lists.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Sad to think we wanted Bellingham and Haaland a few years ago and ended up with neither. They would have filled both of our most urgent priorities

We’d only have turned Bellingham into McTominay and Haaland into Weghorst anyway. We seem to sap the talent out of most players we sign.

 

[Acrobat7]

So?




I don't think you can make such lists.

I wouldn’t bother to interact with that poster.

 

[zaafi]

So?

So it's not really relevant to that league?

I don't think you can make such lists.

What? Again, there are great players that have come from Bundesliga, but out of all the top leagues, Bundesliga is probably the league that have produced the least great players that have gone abroad. The fact that you don't think it is, doesn't make it true. Try for yourself, and see if it is.

I wouldn’t bother to interact with that poster.

Grow up. I hurt your feelings because you're German and a Bayern München fan, so you don't want to interact with me? Look, I'm Norwegian but I can still acknowledge that the Norwegian league is shit. Bundesliga is quite obviously way better, but very few great players have gone from Bundesliga to the other top leagues and become a success when you compare them to Ligue 1, La Liga, and maybe even Eredivisie.

Same posters every time just going apeshit over another poster every time someone mentions Bundesliga being lower quality and just feel the need to defend it so bad.

 

[Zehner]

So it's not really relevant to that league?

Why is that not relevant to the league? Should we exclude Sancho as well then as he was a big talent in City's academy?

What? Again, there are great players that have come from Bundesliga, but out of all the top leagues, Bundesliga is probably the league that have produced the least great players that have gone abroad. The fact that you don't think it is, doesn't make it true. Try for yourself, and see if it is.

See, that just proves that you're not objective. I'd actually argue there is no other league that has so many starters for top clubs abroad. If we only consider top clubs in La Liga (Madrid, Barca), England (top 6) and Ligue 1 (PSG), there are at least 21 players who are starters/very close to starters: Haaland, Akanji, Gvardiol, KDB, Gündogan, Lewandowski, Alaba, Rüdiger, Carvajal, Bellingham, Kroos, Szoboslai, Konate, Havertz, Son, van de Ven, Nkunku, Hakimi, Dembele, Thiago, Endo.

You argued that you can make thrice as long lists for La Liga and Ligue 1. That would mean 126 players of that category. This is obviously complete nonsense. I'd even say you can't make a list that's 21 players long for either of them. So let's put this nonsense to bed and just admit you were wrong.

I wouldn’t bother to interact with that poster.

Probably correct.

 

[zaafi]

See, that just proves that you're not objective. I'd actually argue there is no other league that has so many starters for top clubs abroad. If we only consider top clubs in La Liga (Madrid, Barca), England (top 6) and Ligue 1 (PSG), there are at least 21 players who are starters/very close to starters: Haaland, Akanji, Gvardiol, KDB, Gündogan, Lewandowski, Alaba, Rüdiger, Carvajal, Bellingham, Kroos, Szoboslai, Konate, Havertz, Son, van de Ven, Nkunku, Hakimi, Dembele, Thiago, Endo.

You argued that you can make thrice as long lists for La Liga and Ligue 1. That would mean 126 players of that category. This is obviously complete nonsense. I'd even say you can't make a list that's 21 players long for either of them. So let's put this nonsense to bed and just admit you were wrong.

It's been a long time since I've seen someone move goal posts so hard to defend something which wasn't even the point. Not only that, you include players who haven't even played a single minute for their team yet Endo? Are you being serious? Gvardiol, Szoboszlai have barely played. Nkunku hasn't. van de Ven?

21 times 3 is 126 now, is it? And when I said thrice the list, I wasn't talking players who play right now, but in general over the years (Drogba, Henry, Pires, Ribery and these type of players that have gone abroad to be actual great players). Yeah, let's just admit I'm wrong, even if I'm right, because that's the only thing that's going to stop you from further embarrassing yourself. I'm hardly the first poster you've had this discussion with, and I won't be the last.

Try to list actual good football players that have become successes elsewhere from each league the last 20 years, and see if you'll find Bundesliga on top. I guarantee you won't.

 

[RG77]

Be interesting to see how Real far against better teams. Don't think playing without a striker will give them enough goals throughout the season, but we'll see. They did get dominated vs City so maybe the extra man in midfield (alongside playing younger legs) will do them good.

That game vs City still bothers me. Not so much the loss or the end result, but the manner in which. Kroos as a DM has never worked, Cama is not a LB and Kroos/Modric don’t have the legs. Admittedly both of them and Benzema were running on fumes but that is no excuse. Carlo really dropped the ball that game tactically.

Our defense is looking suspect, midfield looks good though. I think we’ll struggle finding goals, especially in the big games. We don’t create many chances.

 

[Zehner]

It's been a long time since I've seen someone move goal posts so hard to defend something which wasn't even the point. Not only that, you include players who haven't even played a single minute for their team yet Endo? Are you being serious? Gvardiol, Szoboszlai have barely played. Nkunku hasn't. van de Ven?

21 times 3 is 126 now, is it? And when I said thrice the list, I wasn't talking players who play right now, but in general over the years (Drogba, Henry, Pires, Ribery and these type of players that have gone abroad to be actual great players). Yeah, let's just admit I'm wrong, even if I'm right, because that's the only thing that's going to stop you from further embarrassing yourself. I'm hardly the first poster you've had this discussion with, and I won't be the last.

Try to list actual good football players that have become successes elsewhere from each league the last 20 years, and see if you'll find Bundesliga on top. I guarantee you won't.

You claimed you could put together a list that's three times as long for both Ligue 1 and La Liga. 21*2*3 is 126.

And I'm not moving any goal posts, I'm just trying to go by an objective criteriom (former Bundesliga player that is now a starter at a top 10 club abroad). And those are 21. Considering that we are talking about 9 clubs (EPL Top 6, Real, Barca, PSG), this means 21/99 starters have a Bundesliga past. And of those 99, there will also be many domestic ones. The Bundesliga right now has probably the most starters for foreign top clubs. Let that sink in.

Pires and Drogba.. in this case, I throw in Seeburg. He signed for Tottenham in 1908. Seriously, how is it even remotely relevant how players signed 20 years ago performed?

 

[Trezeguet17]

It's just unbelievable how the Bundesliga defense brigade hijacks every thread in this forum where there is even the slightest connection to German football.

The mere fact that there is no rivalry among German fans makes the league boring. Bayern and Dortmund fans allied.

From now on, instead of "Bundesliga", can we just write "best league in the world" to have a chance of being left alone by them?

 

[Zehner]

It's just unbelievable how the Bundesliga defense brigade hijacks every thread in this forum where there is even the slightest connection to German football.

The mere fact that there is no rivalry among German fans makes the league boring. Bayern and Dortmund fans allied.

From now on, instead of "Bundesliga", can we just write "best league in the world" to have a chance of being left alone by them?

No white text?

 

[Semper Fudge]

No white text?

They're right to be fair.

 

[Zehner]

They're right to be fair.

If you don't have enough objectivity in you to see who starts these discussions then I don't think this makes sense Have fun in your echo chamber.

 

[Realismo]

Be interesting to see how Real far against better teams. Don't think playing without a striker will give them enough goals throughout the season, but we'll see. They did get dominated vs City so maybe the extra man in midfield (alongside playing younger legs) will do them good.

Without a 9, Courtois and Militao, and having Ancelotti as a manager I don't expect much. I see the same errors over and over in the last 3 seasons. No rotations, a lack of tactics and high pressure(although it seems to have improved with the youngsters in the midfield), and an awful defense that concedes a lot of chances to any team...

Let's hope he keeps starting Tchouameni and Camavinga and using Kroos and Modric as rotation players, they don't have the stamina to play top football and this should be their last season.

Last year is Ancelotti's fault 100%, maybe we wouldn't have gotten to the final either but playing Modric, Kroos, and Benzema all games seeing their lack of stamina was not great. Benzema trying to get Pichichi in a lost league instead of resting for City when his current form was awful was a joke.

 

[zaafi]

You claimed you could put together a list that's three times as long for both Ligue 1 and La Liga. 21*2*3 is 126.

And I'm not moving any goal posts, I'm just trying to go by an objective criteriom (former Bundesliga player that is now a starter at a top 10 club abroad). And those are 21. Considering that we are talking about 9 clubs (EPL Top 6, Real, Barca, PSG), this means 21/99 starters have a Bundesliga past. And of those 99, there will also be many domestic ones. The Bundesliga right now has probably the most starters for foreign top clubs. Let that sink in.

Pires and Drogba.. in this case, I throw in Seeburg. He signed for Tottenham in 1908. Seriously, how is it even remotely relevant how players signed 20 years ago performed?

If you followed the conversation, the initial argument was over the last 10 years. Of course it matters, because some of these players are still playing top football, and are still world class players. It also matters 20 years ago, because it shows that it has been like that for many years. I honestly don't understand how you can be in denial of that.

Let's take a look if what you're saying is true. Below are players from Ligue that play for top clubs in Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga and Premier League. You could argue that some of these players shouldn't count, as they are either back-ups, or started somewhere else, but I figured since you included Dembele who was sought after by every top club from his time in Rennes and Nkunku who is a PSG product, I'd change that. You also added some players that hasn't even played much for their new clubs, so I've done the same with one or two players.

Real Madrid: Camavinga, Tchouameni, Mendy, Benzema (just left)
Barcelona: Kounde, Raphinha, Dembele (just left)
Bayern München: Coman, Tel (doesn't play much, though), Pavard
Manchester City: Bernardo Silva, Mahrez (just left)
Napoli: Osimhen
Leipzig: Openda, Lukeba, Simakan, Bitshiabu
Inter Milan: Thuram
Manchester United: Martial, Varane
Atletico Madrid: Lemar, Carrasco
Chelsea: Mendy (just left), Disasi, Fofana, Badiashile, Malo Gusto, Nkunku, Thiago Silva
Newcastle: Bruno Guimaraes, Botman
Arsenal: Saliba, Gabriel
AC Milan: Rafael Leao

As you can see, this is quite clearly more than 21 players.

 

[Zehner]

If you followed the conversation, the initial argument was over the last 10 years. Of course it matters, because some of these players are still playing top football, and are still world class players. It also matters 20 years ago, because it shows that it has been like that for many years. I honestly don't understand how you can be in denial of that.

Let's take a look if what you're saying is true. Below are players from Ligue that play for top clubs in Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga and Premier League. You could argue that some of these players shouldn't count, as they are either back-ups, or started somewhere else, but I figured since you included Dembele who was sought after by every top club from his time in Rennes and Nkunku who is a PSG product, I'd change that. You also added some players that hasn't even played much for their new clubs, so I've done the same with one or two players.

Real Madrid: Camavinga, Tchouameni, Mendy, Benzema (just left)
Barcelona: Kounde, Raphinha, Dembele (just left)
Bayern München: Coman, Tel (doesn't play much, though), Pavard
Manchester City: Bernardo Silva, Mahrez (just left)
Napoli: Osimhen
Leipzig: Openda, Lukeba, Simakan, Bitshiabu
Inter Milan: Thuram
Manchester United: Martial
Atletico Madrid: Lemar, Carrasco
Chelsea: Mendy (just left), Disasi, Fofana, Badiashile, Malo Gusto, Nkunku, Thiago Silva
Newcastle: Bruno Guimaraes, Botman
Arsenal: Saliba, Gabriel
AC Milan: Rafael Leao

As you can see, this is quite clearly more than 21 players.

Yeah, just that those are a) 13 clubs, not the 9 I listed (the Seria A, Dortmund and Leipzig clubs certainly aren't in the elite tier) and b) no starters. It is also funny to include players like Leao or Nkunku who had their break through in other leagues. Based on that, Sancho and Bellingham would be EPL players

If you applied the same criteria I applied, you are at 11 or 12 or so. And you claimed it would be thrice as much. Talk about moving the goal posts.

 

[zaafi]

Yeah, just that those are a) 13 clubs, not the 9 I listed (the Seria A, Dortmund and Leipzig clubs certainly aren't in the elite tier) and b) no starters. It is also funny to include players like Leao or Nkunku who had their break through in other leagues. Based on that, Sancho and Bellingham would be EPL players

If you applied the same criteria I applied, you are at 11 or 12 or so. And you claimed it would be thrice as much. Talk about moving the goal posts.

So I should adapt to the clubs that fit you best? Mate, you listed fecking Tottenham as a top club. How is Inter Milan, Napoli, Dortmund worse? Leipzig I can understand a bit, but not really. I'd say they're equal.

As for the bolded part: you did the exact same thing. Thiago Alcantara for Barcelona, Rüdiger for Roma, Aubameyang at Saint-Etienne.

How can you seriously be this blind? You're just making up your own rules that fit what you're trying to prove, but in every case, those rules are absurd.

 

[Zehner]

So I should adapt to the clubs that fit you best? Mate, you listed fecking Tottenham as a top club. How is Inter Milan, Napoli, Dortmund worse? Leipzig I can understand a bit, but not really. I'd say they're equal.

As for the bolded part: you did the exact same thing. Thiago Alcantara for Barcelona, Rüdiger for Roma, Aubameyang at Saint-Etienne.

How can you seriously be this blind? You're just making up your own rules that fit what you're trying to prove, but in every case, those rules are absurd.

It doesn't matter which clubs you include as long as you don't include 13 in one and 9 in the other. I included Tottenham because they're a top 6 EPL club and lightyears aheas of every Serie A club, Dortmund and Leipzig in terms of financial muscle.

And guess what, in the 12-13 players Inaccepted in my previous post, Nkunku was included you're still nowhere near the 21 players I listed. And if we include the tier below that, you'll still be nowhere near. Even if it would flip thanks to the Italian clubs, you'd be miles off the factor 3 you mentioned. 'Irrefutable facts'

 

[zaafi]

It doesn't matter which clubs you include as long as you don't include 13 in one and 9 in the other. I included Tottenham because they're a top 6 EPL club and lightyears aheas of every Serie A club, Dortmund and Leipzig in terms of financial muscle.

And guess what, in the 12-13 players Inaccepted in my previous post, Nkunku was included you're still nowhere near the 21 players I listed. And if we include the tier below that, you'll still be nowhere near. Even if it would flip thanks to the Italian clubs, you'd be miles off the factor 3 you mentioned. 'Irrefutable facts'

Feel free to include the same clubs, or other clubs of your choosing that are CL competing clubs. It really is strange how Tottenham are included, but not Napoli, Inter Milan, AC Milan or Leipzig aren't, because of financial muscle? Since when did money come into the argument? I know you've become sort of like a meme on this forum when it comes to Bundesliga debate, but this is just some serious weird clownery. Quite possibly the worst poster one can have a debate with when it comes to Bundesliga. Sheer ignorance and denial.

Your list consists of players like van de Ven for Tottenham and Endo for Liverpool, but yeah, Camavinga for Real Madrid doesn't count!

 

[Zehner]

Feel free to include the same clubs, or other clubs of your choosing that are CL competing clubs. It really is strange how Tottenham are included, but not Napoli, Inter Milan, AC Milan or Leipzig aren't, because of financial muscle? Since when did money come into the argument? I know you've become sort of like a meme on this forum when it comes to Bundesliga debate, but this is just some serious weird clownery. Quite possibly the worst poster one can have a debate with when it comes to Bundesliga. Sheer ignorance and denial.

Your list consists of players like van de Ven for Tottenham and Endo for Liverpool, but yeah, Camavinga for Real Madrid doesn't count!

Mate, I don't care if Tottenham is included or not. I had them in the list because they traditionally belong to the English top 6 and are rich enough to not be a typical feeder club, unlike the Italian teams that have to sell once a player becomes good enough. But if you want to include them, feel free. Inter alone has four former Bundesliga players in their starting eleven.

Camavinga isn't a starter for Madrid. I get your point as he's oviously a much better player than Endo for example, so include him if you want. It won't change the general fact that the best teams in the world feature many former Bundesliga players in key roles. And the more narrow you define "best", the clearer it gets.

By the way, this doesn't meam that Ligue 1 isn't producing more talent in general. PSG's academy alone is incredible. That the mucb repeated notion that you should be more careful with Bundesliga players since they fail at top clubs more often than others leagues is a dumb myth that deserves to be debunked.

 

[zaafi]

Mate, I don't care if Tottenham is included or not. I had them in the list because they traditionally belong to the English top 6 and are rich enough to not be a typical feeder club, unlike the Italian teams that have to sell once a player becomes good enough. But if you want to include them, feel free. Inter alone has four former Bundesliga players in their starting eleven.

Camavinga isn't a starter for Madrid. I get your point as he's oviously a much better player than Endo for example, so include him if you want. It won't change the general fact that the best teams in the world feature many former Bundesliga players in key roles. And the more narrow you define "best", the clearer it gets.

By the way, this doesn't meam that Ligue 1 isn't producing more talent in general. PSG's academy alone is incredible. That the mucb repeated notion that you should be more careful with Bundesliga players since they fail at top clubs more often than others leagues is a dumb myth that deserves to be debunked.

I don't think the failure percentage from Bundesliga clubs to clubs abroad is higher than it is from Ligue 1 or La Liga. It might be, I have no idea, but I do think that clubs buy from other leagues more often because there are more players of higher quality/better talents or potential in these leagues, which makes it likely to succeed elsewhere higher.