Juan Mata

Where Chelsea was underwhelming in PL. Before talking about CL and EL triumph, turn back some pages where a poster brought out the not too dissimilar Mata summary who took his moment and invisible for majority of the game during Chelsea's Europe conquering quest!

This is also correct. Although Mata won player of the season at his first season, I remember watch some of their games the season when they won CL and Mata was dropped on the bench quite a few.
 
No! He did play with Mourinho.
I don't think it's a wrong decision because they still managed to win the league the next following season.
I know he played for him, but considering he hardly got a game, I see little point in judging him based on that time.

Jose didn't rate Mata (or Luiz) from the start, hence why we were linked with them both when Chelsea were after Rooney (good judgement from Jose there...)

Good managers do get things wrong. Not saying Mata was one of them, but I still think Chelsea would have been better off keeping him instead of playing Oscar all of the time.

They did win the league, but I don't think Oscar was integral to that feat.

SAF froze Tim Howard out for Roy Carroll. Roy Carroll was shit, while Tim Howard was good for Everton. Doesn't mean Tim Howard is United quality.

What did we do? We signed VDS who is debatably on the same level of contribution for us as Big Pete and we started winning again. The moral lesson: don't pick the lesser evil. Just pick quality.
There are also examples where clubs have frozen out players or sold players to accommodate a new player and things have not worked out.
 
I know he played for him, but considering he hardly got a game, I see little point in judging him based on that time.

They did win the league, but I don't think Oscar was integral to that feat.


There are also examples where clubs have frozen out players or sold players to accommodate a new player and things have not worked out.
We're talking about United and managers got full backing in transfer. Our club is a bit special in that case. Moyes, LVG, even SAF (in his worse spell) wouldn't last that long at someone like Real Madrid or Barcelona or Bayern. And we're as big as those. Other smaller clubs ain't comparable to use as example.
 
Easy steps to solve this discussion:

1. Go to squawka and insert chance creation, attacking score, key passes, assists, goals, and defensive score for Mata and other top 5 attacking midfielders/wide playmakers (per 90 to be fair) like De Bryne, Ozil, Erickson, Payet.
2. Act shocked because Mata isn't anywhere close to those players in those key stats for his position.
3. It's okay we just need to buy a better players, Mata could just be a squad player. Lets check how much Mata earns.
4. Act shocked again because he out earns everyone on that list.
5. Nod your heads and say, "Oh wise Jose, please make Mata go away."
 
I know he played for him, but considering he hardly got a game, I see little point in judging him based on that time.

They did win the league, but I don't think Oscar was integral to that feat.

But the main point why he didn't got enough of games because Mourinho thinks Mata is not good enough to play in his system right?

I don't know why you think Oscar wasn't the integral to that feat when clearly he played a lot of games at that season. If what you meant is by playing "the key role", yes Oscar wasn't as big as Hazard, Fabregas, Terry, Matic but to be fair Mata wasn't also the key success for their CL winning.

Oscar is more effective for Chelsea to win the league than Mata in Mourinho's system. That's why Mourinho picked him ahead of Mata.
 
But the main point why he didn't got enough of games because Mourinho thinks Mata is not good enough to play in his system right?
I also wouldn't say him being integral. But Oscar is more effective for Chelsea to win the league than Mata in Mourinho's view.
Some people seem to have a weird thinking process like this:
1. Have one of the best super car
2. Go to buy oil.
3. The first grade oil is unavailable, but there is second grade (still within manufacturer recommendation list)
4. There is also first grade oil for commercial cars available.
5. Since second grade super car oil understandably doesn't give desirable performance, pick up first grade regular car oil because "haven't tried it before" despite not recommended by the super car manufacturer.
6. Ready to change the super car parts if needed, so that the oil works out as best, due to "This oil was one of the best oil on a junk car before, so worth it (they think)"
 
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Easy steps to solve this discussion:

1. Go to squawka and insert chance creation, attacking score, key passes, assists, goals, and defensive score for Mata and other top 5 attacking midfielders/wide playmakers (per 90 to be fair) like De Bryne, Ozil, Erickson, Payet.
2. Act shocked because Mata isn't anywhere close to those players in those key stats for his position.
3. It's okay we just need to buy a better players, Mata could just be a squad player. Lets check how much Mata earns.
4. Act shocked again because he out earns everyone on that list.
5. Nod your heads and say, "Oh wise Jose, please make Mata go away."

This should be problem solved but they still have one more excuse though. "LVG factor". West Ham finished below us and Payet still outperformed him in those key stats and he doesn't have Martial to help him.
 
This should be problem solved but they still have one more excuse though. "LVG factor". West Ham finished below us and Payet still outperformed him in those key stats and he doesn't have Martial to help him.

So you don't think LVG made us a unusually sterile side in attack?
 
So you don't think LVG made us a unusually sterile side in attack?

Yes LVG is part of the problem, but the players also need to take responsibility not just the manager. Wouldn't be better if we have one of Robben or Bale or Mkhitaryan instead of Mata in the team to lead our attack and support our young players?
 
I love Mata as much as the next guy but its unlikely he will be staying under Mourinho. And that goes for Herrera and Blind aswell. These guys are fan favourites and great footballers in their own right, but they're not right for this system. They're too small and weak.

Mourinho needs to get the right players for the right positions, or else things are gonna get unbalanced again and we'll fail to meet the expectations. Mourinho knows what he needs, we need to trust him.
 
2 wrong doesn't necessarily make a right. Oscar didn't play well doesn't mean Mata suddenly fit Mourinho's profile.

This kind "if one is less worse,then it's the best option" logic is what has been hindering the club progress the last few seasons. Valencia is less worse than Darmian, Young and more experienced than Young, so he must be our best RB! Despite Valencia is not a natural RB and no big clubs would look at Valencia to be one of their RBs because he simply doesn't fit their profile.

That's not what I said nor does it have anything to do with my post, but okay.

In terms of fitting Mourinho's profile. Does he not like a no.10 who can score goals and also track back? Mata was amongst our highest 'distance covered' this season and has improved on tracking back since his time at Chelsea. He is also a good finisher. I think his desire to remain at United will play a part and hope he can improve. He's a likeable chap.

A lot of our best moments/games this season came with Mata being at the heart of things. People over look that. All I'm saying is I think he should be given a chance in a system with more directions and directness. He spent a lot of this season on the wing. In the fall out of LvG's sacking and reports from training I recall reading that LvG instructed winggers to hold onto the ball and wait for support from the RB.

Also currently, there isn't a better number 10 at the club. If we sign one, then there's a case of selling him. I believe Mkhitaryan will be deployed in the wing. There's a case if mourinho adopts a 433 but he has always favoured 451, no?
 
As much as I like him, I think we have to let him go... He was the wrong player.. all along.. Think him, Felliani will go.. Blind/Herrera and BFS will stay.. unless Jose thinks Pereira,TFM are ready..
 
That's not what I said nor does it have anything to do with my post, but okay.

In terms of fitting Mourinho's profile. Does he not like a no.10 who can score goals and also track back? Mata was amongst our highest 'distance covered' this season and has improved on tracking back since his time at Chelsea. He is also a good finisher. I think his desire to remain at United will play a part and hope he can improve. He's a likeable chap.

A lot of our best moments/games this season came with Mata being at the heart of things. People over look that. All I'm saying is I think he should be given a chance in a system with more directions and directness. He spent a lot of this season on the wing. In the fall out of LvG's sacking and reports from training I recall reading that LvG instructed winggers to hold onto the ball and wait for support from the RB.

Also currently, there isn't a better number 10 at the club. If we sign one, then there's a case of selling him. I believe Mkhitaryan will be deployed in the wing. There's a case if mourinho adopts a 433 but he has always favoured 451, no?
Can score and track back is just simple generalization. There are more need to get involved, be intense in pressing, become a strong part of the defensive shape... What good if you're tackling and still losing the ball thus out of defensive position in the process? What is good if your run with the runner yet the runner still comfortable receive the ball and make the pass?



Again with the circle logic with LVG. Mourinho shoved Mata out the door himself. It's not like Mata is someone new to Mourinho. Oscar being bad doesn't mean Mata suddenly his ideal. Mourinho want a dog, Mata is a cat. Mourinho had a bad dog doesn't mean he likes to get a cat now. Can you grasp that?

If you think Mourinho is desperate for a #10 then you're deluded as the same time to think he just stuck Mkhitaryan (who is perfectly fit Mourinho's profile)full time on the wing just so Mata who not fit his profile can play as #10. Now using your LVG logic, see that Rooney was more misused under LVG than Mata, shouldn't Rooney deserved his chance as #10 more? Mourinho is long time admirer of Rooney, wanted him also. Rooney is more productive than Mata despite out of the team due to injury. Rooney is well known as hard worker. There you go with generalization.
 
He hasnt played for a good manager in a good system. I would like to give him just one more season before we judge him.
I thought in his 1st 2 seasons at Chelsea, he was the main focus for attack, that's how he got their poty awards 2 seasons?
 
Mata is not a player that can feature consistently in a side challenging for a league title. Since he's moved to England his teams have finished 6th, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Obviously not his fault entirely, but there's clearly a trend (same at Valencia as well). A team like Everton is actually his level.

De Gea has finished 2nd, 1st, 7th, 4th, 5th. He's clearly no longer a player to win championships.
 
De Gea has finished 2nd, 1st, 7th, 4th, 5th. He's clearly no longer a player to win championships.

Show me where De Gea wrote a blog, after a defeat, saying how the team needed to step up and improve and decided to no show and phone in yet another terrible performance

De Gea shows up every week and does his absolute best....Mata shat himself when Delle fecking Alli shoved him and goes missing 9 times out of 10.

The annoying this is, he has the ability. About time he showed it
 
Show me where De Gea wrote a blog, after a defeat, saying how the team needed to step up and improve and decided to no show and phone in yet another terrible performance

De Gea shows up every week and does his absolute best....Mata shat himself when Delle fecking Alli shoved him and goes missing 9 times out of 10.

The annoying this is, he has the ability. About time he showed it
What has a blog got to do with this? Also, show me where you even mentioned that in your post I quoted. I'm not saying Mata is all that, but your reasoning about his league finishes is pretty fallacious. The same point could have been made about Suarez before he left pool and we all know how good he is.
 
What has a blog got to do with this? Also, show me where you even mentioned that in your post I quoted. I'm not saying Mata is all that, but your reasoning about his league finishes is pretty fallacious. The same point could have been made about Suarez before he left pool and we all know how good he is.

I never said anything about his league finishes. You're on about a different poster you quoted.

I'm not that stupid
 
I never said anything about his league finishes. You're on about a different poster you quoted.

I'm not that stupid
Crap. You quoted my response directed at another poster and so I thought it was that same person I was talking to. Im actually not disagreeing with the conclusion, so I have no problem with your opinion. My response was simply to mock the 'logic' of his reasoning.
 
Easy steps to solve this discussion:

1. Go to squawka and insert chance creation, attacking score, key passes, assists, goals, and defensive score for Mata and other top 5 attacking midfielders/wide playmakers (per 90 to be fair) like De Bryne, Ozil, Erickson, Payet.
2. Act shocked because Mata isn't anywhere close to those players in those key stats for his position.
3. It's okay we just need to buy a better players, Mata could just be a squad player. Lets check how much Mata earns.
4. Act shocked again because he out earns everyone on that list.
5. Nod your heads and say, "Oh wise Jose, please make Mata go away."

That's one way of looking at it.
The other way of looking at it is listing all the problems you have with his style
1. Loses the ball too often
2. Doesn't work hard
3. Doesn't contribute defensively
4. Not an attacking threat

1. Loses the ball 1.4 times/game- among the least for attackers in PL least season (lowest 10)
2. This season's stats aren't available, but had highest average last season, as well as this season till feb(the last time these stats were published)
3. 0.7 interceptions per game(11th most for attacking players with 25+ appearances in PL), 0.5 clearances per 90 minutes(of the players you listed only Eriksen has more), 0.1 crosses blocked/90mins (6th highest in PL among attackers), .5 passes blocked per 90 mins (of the players listed only Eriksen has more)
4. Interesting stat here: among the players you listed, he has the lowest total no. of shots except Ozil, but has most no. of shots from inside the penalty area, which tells you a lot about the way we were playing
Also, 2nd highest no. of accurate long balls among players you listed, least no. of inaccurate long balls, 4th overall in no. of passes among attackers(3rd among those players), 3rd most accurate short passes in PL among attackers and the list, least no. of unsuccessful short passes among the listed players.

Although, I agree he is among the players listed, lowest in key passes (although he is better than Eriksen in no. of through balls)

Its like comparing Defensive records of a Wenger and a Mourinho side. Even if Wenger has better defenders, Mou's side will always have the better stats because of the way they play!
 
Mata isn't good enough. It really is that simple.

He is slow, loses the ball more often than not and has no defensive qualities that Jose demands from his number 10.

He is probably an Everton level player these days so will fit in well there.

Sell him for a good fee whilst we can!
 
Mata isn't good enough. It really is that simple.

He is slow, loses the ball more often than not and has no defensive qualities that Jose demands from his number 10.

He is probably an Everton level player these days so will fit in well there.

Sell him for a good fee whilst we can!
I wouldn't say Mata is not good enough. Let's just put in this way, Mata doesn't fit into Jose's way of football.
 
That's one way of looking at it.
The other way of looking at it is listing all the problems you have with his style
1. Loses the ball too often
2. Doesn't work hard
3. Doesn't contribute defensively
4. Not an attacking threat

1. Loses the ball 1.4 times/game- among the least for attackers in PL least season (lowest 10)
2. This season's stats aren't available, but had highest average last season, as well as this season till feb(the last time these stats were published)
3. 0.7 interceptions per game(11th most for attacking players with 25+ appearances in PL), 0.5 clearances per 90 minutes(of the players you listed only Eriksen has more), 0.1 crosses blocked/90mins (6th highest in PL among attackers), .5 passes blocked per 90 mins (of the players listed only Eriksen has more)
4. Interesting stat here: among the players you listed, he has the lowest total no. of shots except Ozil, but has most no. of shots from inside the penalty area, which tells you a lot about the way we were playing
Also, 2nd highest no. of accurate long balls among players you listed, least no. of inaccurate long balls, 4th overall in no. of passes among attackers(3rd among those players), 3rd most accurate short passes in PL among attackers and the list, least no. of unsuccessful short passes among the listed players.

Although, I agree he is among the players listed, lowest in key passes (although he is better than Eriksen in no. of through balls)

Its like comparing Defensive records of a Wenger and a Mourinho side. Even if Wenger has better defenders, Mou's side will always have the better stats because of the way they play!



This is why stats can play a trick on you.
When you look at how many times the players losing the ball can be viewed on two things: because he dribble a lot or because he is physically weak. There are two different either you lose possession but try something or loosing it easily. In Mata's case he loses possession easily due to lack of physical attributes. Have a look the stats below (whoscored.com), Mata, Payet, Ozil, De Bruyne, Eriksen have similar numbers of "dispossed per game" in range of 1.4 to 1.8. But look at their dribble per game, Mata was the only one with less than 1. The rest of them with above 1. How can a player with 0.8 dribble per game has a similar amount of dispossed per game with players with dribble per game above 1. It shows that his playing stye is still less effective in term of keeping possession.

Dispossed per game: Mata (1.4) Payet (1.7) Ozil (1.7) De Bruyne (1.4) Eriksen (1.8)
Dribble per game: Mata (0.8) Payet (2.2) Ozil (1.3) De Bruyne (1.4) Eriksen (1)

However, less disposed per game can also mean that the players pass the ball a lot. Either it's short simple pass or key passes.
Key passes per game: Mata (1.4) Payet (4) Ozil (4.2) De Bruyne (3.2) Eriksen (3.3)
Assists: Mata (5) Payet (12) Ozil (19) De Bruyne (9) Eriksen (13)

So in term of their effectiveness in keeping possession for the sake of their team, Mata is way below compare to them.

And this time let's talk about defending stats:
According to Squawka:
Interception per game: Mata (0.58), Payet (0.77), Ozil (0.63), De Bruyne (0.72), Eriksen (1)
Clearances per game: Mata (0.61), Payet (0.17), Ozil (0.29), De Bruyne (0.56), Eriksen (0.80)
Defensive Errors per game: Mata (0.03) Payet (0.03) Ozil (0) De Bruyne (0.04) Eriksen (0.03)

Interceptions, Mata is considered to be the lowest one, as for clearance Mata is #2. But I wouldn't say it's better to have more clearances for an attacking mid than interception or read the game well. Don't you agree?
 
If he leaves, and I think he almost certainly will, I really hope he doesn't sign for another Premiership club.
 
This is why stats can play a trick on you.
When you look at how many times the players losing the ball can be viewed on two things: because he dribble a lot or because he is physically weak. There are two different either you lose possession but try something or loosing it easily. In Mata's case he loses possession easily due to lack of physical attributes. Have a look the stats below (whoscored.com), Mata, Payet, Ozil, De Bruyne, Eriksen have similar numbers of "dispossed per game" in range of 1.4 to 1.8. But look at their dribble per game, Mata was the only one with less than 1. The rest of them with above 1. How can a player with 0.8 dribble per game has a similar amount of dispossed per game with players with dribble per game above 1. It shows that his playing stye is still less effective in term of keeping possession.

Dispossed per game: Mata (1.4) Payet (1.7) Ozil (1.7) De Bruyne (1.4) Eriksen (1.8)
Dribble per game: Mata (0.8) Payet (2.2) Ozil (1.3) De Bruyne (1.4) Eriksen (1)

However, less disposed per game can also mean that the players pass the ball a lot. Either it's short simple pass or key passes.
Key passes per game: Mata (1.4) Payet (4) Ozil (4.2) De Bruyne (3.2) Eriksen (3.3)
Assists: Mata (5) Payet (12) Ozil (19) De Bruyne (9) Eriksen (13)

So in term of their effectiveness in keeping possession for the sake of their team, Mata is way below compare to them.

And this time let's talk about defending stats:
According to Squawka:
Interception per game: Mata (0.58), Payet (0.77), Ozil (0.63), De Bruyne (0.72), Eriksen (1)
Clearances per game: Mata (0.61), Payet (0.17), Ozil (0.29), De Bruyne (0.56), Eriksen (0.80)
Defensive Errors per game: Mata (0.03) Payet (0.03) Ozil (0) De Bruyne (0.04) Eriksen (0.03)

Interceptions, Mata is considered to be the lowest one, as for clearance Mata is #2. But I wouldn't say it's better to have more clearances for an attacking mid than interception or read the game well. Don't you agree?


I do agree that stats can be read both ways. All I'm pointing is that it all depends on how the side is set up to play. In LVG's Utd, the no. of key passes was around 1.5 mark, in Moyes' season it was 2.3, In his Chelsea time, it was around 3 both seasons. Also, key passes are defined as passes that lead to a shot. Everyone knows that we didn't take any long range shot last season. So the stats are obviously a bit skewed against him.
Unsuccessful touches have been lesser now which further highlights that we are playing a much safer game. He was dispossessed more often during his time at Chelsea despite similar no. of attempted dribbles, which further highlights our style was way too defensive last year. His defensive stats are on the up, which means that he hasnt been playing as the luxury player.
I do agree, that you can say, that he has worsened, as that is one way of looking at the stats, but the other way is the style has been derimental to all our attacking players- something that can be verified by comparing the players against their historical selves.
 
If he leaves, and I think he almost certainly will, I really hope he doesn't sign for another Premiership club.

Couldn't careless infact seeing him return back to the Chelsea Mata for a club like Everton would be good for the neutral.. So win win.
 
Mata is not a bad squad player to have, he's not someone to be relied on to deliver week in week out, I see no negatives with keeping him, the only positive from selling him is if the price is great(25m and above). Either ways I'm not too fussed, if we're getting better people in his position then send him on his way
 
I do agree that stats can be read both ways. All I'm pointing is that it all depends on how the side is set up to play. In LVG's Utd, the no. of key passes was around 1.5 mark, in Moyes' season it was 2.3, In his Chelsea time, it was around 3 both seasons. Also, key passes are defined as passes that lead to a shot. Everyone knows that we didn't take any long range shot last season. So the stats are obviously a bit skewed against him.
Unsuccessful touches have been lesser now which further highlights that we are playing a much safer game. He was dispossessed more often during his time at Chelsea despite similar no. of attempted dribbles, which further highlights our style was way too defensive last year. His defensive stats are on the up, which means that he hasnt been playing as the luxury player.
I do agree, that you can say, that he has worsened, as that is one way of looking at the stats, but the other way is the style has been derimental to all our attacking players- something that can be verified by comparing the players against their historical selves.

At Chelsea around 3? His best was exactly 3 key passes.
Key passes per game: 2011/2012 (3), 2012/2013 (2.8), 2013/2014 (2.3), Manchester United 2014 (2.3)
Dribble per game: 2011/2012 (0.9), 2012/2013 (1.1), 2013/2014 (0.8), Manchester United 2014 (0.9)

Even at Chelsea and Manchester United Moyes his key passes and dribble per game rate are still below than Ozil, Payet, De Bruyne, and Eriksen did last season.
 
At Chelsea around 3? His best was exactly 3 key passes.
Key passes per game: 2011/2012 (3), 2012/2013 (2.8), 2013/2014 (2.3), Manchester United 2014 (2.3)
Dribble per game: 2011/2012 (0.9), 2012/2013 (1.1), 2013/2014 (0.8), Manchester United 2014 (0.9)

Even at Chelsea and Manchester United Moyes his key passes and dribble per game rate are still below than Ozil, Payet, De Bruyne, and Eriksen did last season.
3 key passes is not bad when you consider their players. Lampard, Hazard in second season, etc. And Ozil, Payet, Eriksen have the added advantage in key passes due to the no. of set pieces.
 
3 key passes is not bad when you consider their players. Lampard, Hazard in second season, etc. And Ozil, Payet, Eriksen have the added advantage in key passes due to the no. of set pieces.

I never say it's bad. But it is worse than their key passes even when he was at Chelsea.
Set pieces aren't included as key passes by the way. And as far what I remember at Chelsea, Mata was their key set piece taker.
 
I never it's bad. But it is worse than their key passes even when he was at Chelsea.
Set pieces aren't included as key passes by the way. And as far what I remember at Chelsea, Mata was their key set piece taker.
Actually they are. ANy pass that leads to a shot is defined as a key pass. If you actually check the type of key pass on whoscored, you'd get the breakdown- for Payet- 1.7/game is contributed by corners and FKs.
Ozil- 1.6 by those 2, and so on.
Since we are talking about Key passes, would you say Martial was equally to blame as well though? His key passes were fewer than Mata? 1.3!
 
Actually they are. ANy pass that leads to a shot is defined as a key pass. If you actually check the type of key pass on whoscored, you'd get the breakdown- for Payet- 1.7/game is contributed by corners and FKs.
Ozil- 1.6 by those 2, and so on.
Since we are talking about Key passes, would you say Martial was equally to blame as well though? His key passes were fewer than Mata? 1.3!

The stats of key passes whether you want to say it includes set pieces or no as your excuse, I already said before, as far what I remember Juan Mata was Chelsea key set piece taker. Even now he is still considered to be our key set piece taker alongside Rooney. So it is still considered lower than the other four players.

So after losing in the argument of Ozil, Payet, Eriksen, De Bruyne stats. Now you are using Martial. Isn't it our discussion was about "loosing possession" and "defensive contribution"?

Do I need to answer a question of someone who is trying to play dumb? It's ridiculous trying to questioning what Martial has done this season and compare it to Mata by using "key passes". If you can't see the difference in their ability and role, let's don't waste people time ok.
 
At Chelsea around 3? His best was exactly 3 key passes.
Key passes per game: 2011/2012 (3), 2012/2013 (2.8), 2013/2014 (2.3), Manchester United 2014 (2.3)
Dribble per game: 2011/2012 (0.9), 2012/2013 (1.1), 2013/2014 (0.8), Manchester United 2014 (0.9)

Even at Chelsea and Manchester United Moyes his key passes and dribble per game rate are still below than Ozil, Payet, De Bruyne, and Eriksen did last season.

3 key passes is generally very good and his actual assists/goals was very high at Chelsea. 32 goals and 48 assists in all comps in just 2 seasons. Dribbling just isn't his thing but those numbers are epic

He just wasn't used properly at United.

I never say it's bad. But it is worse than their key passes even when he was at Chelsea.
Set pieces aren't included as key passes by the way. And as far what I remember at Chelsea, Mata was their key set piece taker.

Set pieces are actually included in 'Key passes' stats. Also no his key passes stats weren't really worse than Erikson/KDB, they're basically the same with him getting 32 goals and 48 assists, due to better quality on Mata's part.
 
The stats of key passes whether you want to say it includes set pieces or no as your excuse, I already said before, as far what I remember Juan Mata was Chelsea key set piece taker. Even now he is still considered to be our key set piece taker alongside Rooney. So it is still considered lower than the other four players.

So after losing in the argument of Ozil, Payet, Eriksen, De Bruyne stats. Now you are using Martial. Isn't it our discussion was about "loosing possession" and "defensive contribution"?

Do I need to answer a question of someone who is trying to play dumb? It's ridiculous trying to questioning what Martial has done this season and compare it to Mata by using "key passes". If you can't see the difference in their ability and role, let's don't waste people time ok.

Mata has taken only short range/direct free kicks. So his shots stat gets increased, but his key passs stat isn't that high.
And same was true at Chelsea iirc. He took corners like he has been at Utd, but we haven't been taking direct corners, have we?
And as far as comparison with other players goes, as everyone has said, you do realise nearly every side plays a pressing game throughout? Especially Spurs!
His stats for crosses and passes blocked(more than players you have listed) are more, again, which is true as at the end, every stat does neutralise for similar teams. We do let teams come into our half easily when the oppo attacks, so no great surprise about these stats.
And, people were blaming him that he loses the ball too often, which he instead of taking the flashy route and trying to dribble prefers to pass- again supported by his stats-Most successful passing %. This was our style, and it is pretty much supported by the stats.
And why can't we compare him to Martial. He was the attacking spark after all. If you do say that Mata's stats are low because he preferred the safe option passing back, instead of a risky forward pass, why are Martial's stats low? His assists are lower, He obviously scored more goals, but he did play a few games as ST as well.
Why is it so hard, for you to accept that it was the style more than anything- we hardly had a shot from outside the box. We weren't pressing in opposition box, can be supported by seeing Martial's defensive stats as well.
 
3 key passes is generally very good and his actual assists/goals was very high at Chelsea. 32 goals and 48 assists in all comps in just 2 seasons. Dribbling just isn't his thing but those numbers are epic

He just wasn't used properly at United.



Set pieces are actually included in 'Key passes' stats. Also no his key passes stats weren't really worse than Erikson/KDB, they're basically the same with him getting 32 goals and 48 assists, due to better quality on Mata's part.

I never say it's bad. The poster mentioned about around 3 at Chelsea when it was just 3, 2.8 and 2.3. Well, the key passes is still considered to be worse which is below than the other four players.
 
I never say it's bad. The poster mentioned about around 3 at Chelsea when it was just 3, 2.8 and 2.3. Well, the key passes is still considered to be worse which is below than the other four players.
You do realise you are seeing stats per game and not 90 minutes! His stats per 90 minutes at Chelsea were 3.6, 3.2, 3.2
 
Mata has taken only short range/direct free kicks. So his shots stat gets increased, but his key passs stat isn't that high.
And same was true at Chelsea iirc. He took corners like he has been at Utd, but we haven't been taking direct corners, have we?
And as far as comparison with other players goes, as everyone has said, you do realise nearly every side plays a pressing game throughout? Especially Spurs!
His stats for crosses and passes blocked(more than players you have listed) are more, again, which is true as at the end, every stat does neutralise for similar teams. We do let teams come into our half easily when the oppo attacks, so no great surprise about these stats.
And, people were blaming him that he loses the ball too often, which he instead of taking the flashy route and trying to dribble prefers to pass- again supported by his stats-Most successful passing %. This was our style, and it is pretty much supported by the stats.

Well this is lame isn't it? Performance say it all, stats says it all.
Using direct free kick/short range as your excuse even giving me an easy time to say that Mata has less ability to execute set pieces if we compare him to Payet and Ozil which actually true. And also De Bruyne isn't City main free kick taker. And also saying Mata only take short range free kick isn't completely correct.
And also at the first half of season we used direct corenr and all the corner were awful taken even. And when we took indirect corner, normally Blind it's Blind the one took it and pass it to Mata to whip the ball into the box which gave even more attempt for Mata for key passes. And how many times we saw Mata did this without being marked.

And why can't we compare him to Martial. He was the attacking spark after all. If you do say that Mata's stats are low because he preferred the safe option passing back, instead of a risky forward pass, why are Martial's stats low? His assists are lower, He obviously scored more goals, but he did play a few games as ST as well.
Why is it so hard, for you to accept that it was the style more than anything- we hardly had a shot from outside the box. We weren't pressing in opposition box, can be supported by seeing Martial's defensive stats as well.

Are you serious? So comparing a winger/forward with attacking mid based on "key passes" especially when the attacking mid took more set pieces is your logic aye?
What about dribbles? What about his pace? His run? His link up play? His work rate? What about the players he beats? I'm sure you can see more than these things what Martial offered to our team last season.