Considering it is Everton knocking on the door for a relatively expensive player on high wages, why don't they rather pursue Rooney? He has said he only wants to play for United and Everton in the PL. Now he has the chance to come back to his old club and try rebuild them as a growing club. We know better of course, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for nostalgia and blatant ignorance.
Juan Mata
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
Do you think he could function as a CM? I've always wondered that. Especially if we will be playing with a DM, then the requirement for a tackling MF will not be on Mata. He has vision and great passing execution.
Playing as a Playmaker in the MF, then his lack of pace won't be as much of an issue as him playing out wide, or as a CAM.
Bear in mind that in all these posts I'm making, if Mourinho is going to go and buy a direct replacement for Mata (younger, faster), then I'm all for it. But getting rid of him before we have fleshed out the team makes me feel uneasy.
I don't think we would be too keen to sell to another PL club, and I don't think Everton would be keen to pay his wages or the transfer fee.
I can only envision him going for a big payday in China or something, or Real Madrid or PSG having a brainfart and buying him.
If you mean in a middle 2, then no chance. He can obviously flourish as a #10 but Mourinho is unlikely to go for him there.
Ronald Koeman was Mata's coach back in the days at Valencia.
Would be sorry to see him leave if he does.
Superb technique and a match winner when he's 'on it today' but like so many of our squad, looks terrible when he's ' not on it today'.
To Juve as part of a Pogba deal would be best for him, on the other hand I'm not sure I want Pogba at OT. Almost God-like status here, but I reckon he's hugely overrated and the Euros are proving that. And after he basically sh*t on us, from a great height, it'd be like having an ex-wife back after she's walked out on you for another bloke.
Superb technique and a match winner when he's 'on it today' but like so many of our squad, looks terrible when he's ' not on it today'.
To Juve as part of a Pogba deal would be best for him, on the other hand I'm not sure I want Pogba at OT. Almost God-like status here, but I reckon he's hugely overrated and the Euros are proving that. And after he basically sh*t on us, from a great height, it'd be like having an ex-wife back after she's walked out on you for another bloke.
Let's check the games then?
Mata was ranked 6.9 by our fellow cafters in the final, Fellaini 6.4.
Fellaini was the lowest ranked player against Sheffield United, Mata was bad there but not as bad as Fellaini.
Against Derby - Mata 6.3, Fellaini 5.5.
Against Shrewsbury Mata was MoTM, Fellaini didn't play.
Against West ham at home 1-1 - Fellaini lowest ranked player at 4.1. Mata didn't play.
Against WHU and Everton Fellaini was good and one of the best performers, Mata didn't play.
All in all - in all cases when both were on the pitch Mata outperformed Fellaini. Fellaini had 2 good games rest he was one of the lowest ranked players with the first game against West ham - the worst player on the pitch. Right back at you.
It's combination of both that you fail to comprehend. Ability and talent wise Mata is way ahead of the likes of Fellaini, Blind and Lingard. In terms of output Mata has been producing 27 goals and 23 assists for 3 years which is not bad, considering how bad the team was playing under 2 managers. When you want to sell the player you look at the current state but also ability wise especially when he has played in different formation and tactics to the one that will be implemented.
Again read the previous paragraph.
Again read the paragraph above, it's a combination of both. I'm pretty sure Jose won't play Blind in defence so that leaves midfield. Will Blind be more useful in midfield than Mata?
Mata had average season while Herrera had his worst - go on and find another one that will back that he was as effective to us as Mata.
I followed him at Bilbao, not Zaragoza we were linked with him like 2-3 years ago. He was much better there than what he has shown for us bar couple of games which incidentally coinside with combining well with Mata.
Check whatever source you like that measure performances transfermarkd, squawka and so forth - all have Mata way in front of Herrera.
[/QUOTE]
So let's sell half the team then? I don't think wages matter all that to us especially the difference between Mata and Lingard. Lingard is just a squad player and will never reach Mata in terms of quality, what's the point of keeping him? Especially when we're constantly linked with young wingers like Lozano who will take his place? Mata has played all across the midfield. As a squad player he's much more useful than certain Lingard.
Perhaps you can cool off a bit?
The best players at the moment is combination of many factors - past achievements, current form, potential and a place in the team.
Rashford has barely played dozen of games, at this point he's just a potential. Rooney is on everyone's sell list. Blind I've already explained couple of times why he's not more useful for us than Mata, and particularly in his case the past season is irrelevant as Jose won't play him in defence.
Smalling and Mata are pretty similar and we can do better than both. It's a bit of personal preference on those two.
When did this happen? Some of you are absolute drama queens.
"By our fellow carters"
Do you know how many people in this redcafe hate Fellaini? You can find tons of them even if he had good games, they will still criticise him and wanted him to be dropped the next game.
If you want check by games let's check the games. You are just checking the rating in forum! Not by games! And it's not even official rating. Did you even watch the games? Did Mata deserve those ratings? Did Fellaini deserve those ratings? We were talking about who made more contribution and I already mentioned some of Fellaini's contribution how he helped us to the final more than Mata did (and those contribution are facts not lie). So it's your turn to give me Mata's contribution. But you replied with red cafe rating lol. I don't see how can red cafe rating can be used as a proof that the players made more contribution. I guess according to you Luke Shaw has contributed more than any our players due to 7.2 red cafe ratings. So can you back this up now?
Funny that Mata missed three important games against two biggest teams that we faced in FA. And Mata featured against the smaller teams only.
The discussion was about being the best players. I used the performance last season. You used the "ability" "past achievements". How lame was your excuses? And now you are switching the topic to Blind isn't suitable in Jose's defense.
So when did I say he will?
If you can't backup your statement about Mata being one of our best player and only Martial and de Gea are ahead of him then don't try to switch our topic of discussion.
Again the same questions. How come Martial is ahead of Mata if you judge who's the best based on past achievements? How come Rooney and Carrick aren't ahead of Mata if it is based on past achievements? How come De Gea is ahead of Mata because both of them have different "ability"?
The answers should be simple mate, you have been wrong from your first statement about Mata being our best player and only Martial and De Gea were ahead of him. There are more players like Smalling, Blind, Rashford, even Rooney are should be ahead of Mata in term of being best players. Best players should be first or top 3-5 you can't have too many best players in a team when clearly our season has been average or awful. Mata's stats is exactly reflecting our season.
The point is both of them are showing average performance it doesn't matter who is worse who is better. Both are equally not showing a good enough season. Been average!!
Wait what was that again Mata? Being average? Does that mean you are finally agree with me that Mata had average performance last season and not our best players anymore now?
I'm sure I did say why Mata will be in my top 3 selling list and why I rather keep players like Memphis, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Lingard and etc.
Yeh sure being linked but are those rumours true? It seems that someone just denied the rumour. I rather keep Lingard who can plays in both winger and number 10 role, offer pace and work rate with low reasonable wages on the bench than wasting money to put Mata on the bench who can only play as a no10 and being wasted on the wing. I'm sure Mourinho thinks the same thing.
Oh don't worry I'm chilled because I'm enjoying and laughing with the fact that you keep changing your statement.
So now you are adding more stuff from "past achievements" and "ability" to "past achievements", "current form", "potential", "place in a team".
Once again I will say this again. Ask everyone who has been our best player last season? Their answer will be De Gea, Martial, Smalling, Blind. And some people will also said Rashford. If you still being stubborn and think Mata is in the same category of one of these then I will cry all day because our club's expectation has fallen way too far.
No matter how many times you are trying to banging about Mata's stats or being most creative, those stats clearly reflects our season being 5th and our end product as bad as Sunderland. It has been average performances for a team like us. Imagine without these 5 De Gea, Martial, Smalling, Blind and Rashford. I wonder how worse our season will become?
"By our fellow carters"
Do you know how many people in this redcafe hate Fellaini? You can find tons of them even if he had good games, they will still criticise him and wanted him to be dropped the next game.
If you want check by games let's check the games. You are just checking the rating in forum! Not by games! And it's not even official rating. Did you even watch the games? Did Mata deserve those ratings? Did Fellaini deserve those ratings? We were talking about who made more contribution and I already mentioned some of Fellaini's contribution how he helped us to the final more than Mata did (and those contribution are facts not lie). So it's your turn to give me Mata's contribution. But you replied with red cafe rating lol. I don't see how can red cafe rating can be used as a proof that the players made more contribution. I guess according to you Luke Shaw has contributed more than any our players due to 7.2 red cafe ratings. So can you back this up now?
Funny that Mata missed three important games against two biggest teams that we faced in FA. And Mata featured against the smaller teams only.
Go on and check similar sites that rank players. Give me one source that has Fellaini, Herreara and Lingard having better season than Mata. Be it official, forum or whatever. Shaw and Rashford played much less is it too difficult to comprehend for you? Of course when you play 30 games is different to play 10 in terms of average rating.
Funny or not, he missed those games and as much as you big up Fellaini in those 2 games, he stunk up the joint in his first game against WHU, which might never went to replay. When they were both on the pitch Mata outperformed him.
I've watched the games, the ratings are an example for many people ratings. If you have better sources and ratings do share.
You jumped into a discussion that wasn't refered to you. I asked a poster who are those players in the team that are better than Mata in terms of importance and overall quality. Not just form. You should try to read the discussion from the beginning not try to be an arse about it.
If you are putting Rashford as better player than Mata based on dozen of games then so be it. He's not had a season that he has been a first team regular yet. It's different with Martial who already had 1 season despite his age.
I don't have to excuse myself about anything, this is a discussion board and some people have different views than yours. If you have some kind of personal agenda, I'm not bothered losing my time with it any more.
I see you are backtracking there. Who was consistent enough and did have a good enough season apart from Martial and De Gea? The reason why we are outside top 4 is that the team underperformed along with LvG tactics and "philosophy" which didn't work well with the players, Mata included.
Based on your thoughts you'd keep Willian and sell Hazard probably because one is on lower wage and works harder right?
You either have trouble comprehending or purposely missing the point. Believe what you want to believe, I'm done with this debate.
"By our fellow carters"
Do you know how many people in this redcafe hate Fellaini? You can find tons of them even if he had good games, they will still criticise him and wanted him to be dropped the next game.
If you want check by games let's check the games. You are just checking the rating in forum! Not by games! And it's not even official rating. Did you even watch the games? Did Mata deserve those ratings? Did Fellaini deserve those ratings? We were talking about who made more contribution and I already mentioned some of Fellaini's contribution how he helped us to the final more than Mata did (and those contribution are facts not lie). So it's your turn to give me Mata's contribution. But you replied with red cafe rating lol. I don't see how can red cafe rating can be used as a proof that the players made more contribution. I guess according to you Luke Shaw has contributed more than any our players due to 7.2 red cafe ratings. So can you back this up now?
Funny that Mata missed three important games against two biggest teams that we faced in FA. And Mata featured against the smaller teams only.
The discussion was about being the best players. I used the performance last season. You used the "ability" "past achievements". How lame was your excuses? And now you are switching the topic to Blind isn't suitable in Jose's defense.
So when did I say he will?
If you can't backup your statement about Mata being one of our best player and only Martial and de Gea are ahead of him then don't try to switch our topic of discussion.
Again the same questions. How come Martial is ahead of Mata if you judge who's the best based on past achievements? How come Rooney and Carrick aren't ahead of Mata if it is based on past achievements? How come De Gea is ahead of Mata because both of them have different "ability"?
The answers should be simple mate, you have been wrong from your first statement about Mata being our best player and only Martial and De Gea were ahead of him. There are more players like Smalling, Blind, Rashford, even Rooney are should be ahead of Mata in term of being best players. Best players should be first or top 3-5 you can't have too many best players in a team when clearly our season has been average or awful. Mata's stats is exactly reflecting our season.
The point is both of them are showing average performance it doesn't matter who is worse who is better. Both are equally not showing a good enough season. Been average!!
Wait what was that again Mata? Being average? Does that mean you are finally agree with me that Mata had average performance last season and not our best players anymore now?
I'm sure I did say why Mata will be in my top 3 selling list and why I rather keep players like Memphis, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Lingard and etc.
Yeh sure being linked but are those rumours true? It seems that someone just denied the rumour. I rather keep Lingard who can plays in both winger and number 10 role, offer pace and work rate with low reasonable wages on the bench than wasting money to put Mata on the bench who can only play as a no10 and being wasted on the wing. I'm sure Mourinho thinks the same thing.
You have to be kidding if you think Fellaini was better than Mata last season. His 2 standout performances which I remember from top of my headHe was the best player in our 2-1(?) win over Wolfsburg, the one where he scored and created for Mike. He was great vs Stoke. Was part of all 3 goals. And there were more games in the beginning of season. where he was great, Southampton, and more games, I won't be going into that.
Anyways, Fellaini had good games and terrible games. I think apart from FA Cup, a couple of games, he was poor.
2nd- Mata was better than Blind, Rash (over course of season) and Rooney. Blind was responsible for a lot of goals and the only reason we defend him is because he isn't a natural CB. I just want you to defend this: How can your 2 CBs be termed to have been very good in a season where you voted your GK to be the POTY? Even Smalling, He was great in 1st half, so I won't be arguing who was better between Mata and Smalling. And Rooney! I defend Roo on his thread and like him, but come on, he played 1st half of the season as #9, scored 3 goals!
Mata didn't have a season to remember, but have you thought that it could be because of our safe style? It's like bashing Jagielka because Everton conceded a lot of goals. The player is as good as the instructions given to him.
ANd Lingard over Mata. So, our 2nd choice at #10 should be a substandard player, who won't ever be as good as Mata is now, just because his wages are higher and workrate. If our #10 gets a long term injury, have you thought about the impact over our season? I am all for value for money, but that is in transfer dealings as you are strengthening opposition that way, but in wages, I don't mind club spending a bit more as you are paying it to a quality player
After what Jose said about Rooney, it's over for Mata 
Oh man. If only you read my post properly and knows what's going on before jump to conclusions all of these misunderstood will never happen.
First, When did I say Fellaini had a better season than Mata?
Second, you have to be kidding me if you think Blind and Rashford aren't ahead of Mata in term of last season performance. If you are talking about errors you also need to talk about the errors that Mata made which cost us even more games. Lets take one example which involves both players, I bet you, you probably forgot that Mata was just ball watching when Fabregas passed the ball when Costa scored and people blamed Blind for slip but the pass to Costa would never happen from the first place if Mata didn't give Fabregas enough space and time to pass the ball.
Third, Did I say Lingard as our second choice no10? Just because I mentioned Lingard can play on the left, right and no10 doesn't mean I want him to be our no10 second choice. I'm just saying I prefer to have players like Lingard who can play on the left, right, centre as my backup in our squad who can offer pace and work rate with lower wage than having a one player who can only be effective playing in one position as a backup in our squad. We could use the money to sign a better player for first choice.
Yeah yeah right you said the same thing yesterday and still replying my post and even replying a different post. You just can't backup your statement. I have my own reason and you have your own reason but when Im questioning them you can't answer them and instead you are changing the topic and your own statement. Amusing!
Selling Mata would make me sad
Would be disappointed if we sell Mata to have Rooney playing there instead.
I won't miss him.
Going by Mourinho's comments he'll put Rooney in #10. I doubt we can sell him to anybody and the #10 position makes most sense for him, especially with Ibra up top.
Would be disappointing but at least we won't see Rooney in midfield.
I still think he'll be given a chance.
If he is going to play Rooney at 10, Mata is not one for the bench. He will want to play, he will want to get his international place back. I think that is what Jose was hinting at, ones who would ask to leave. Rojo and Blind, who are both internationals along with Fellaini could be in the same boat.
@Mike09 Herrera wasn't "average" last season, he was woeful. Possibly our most disappointing player given the expectations we had for him. You seem to think that both him and Mata were average and that it doesn't matter if one was slightly better than the other, when in fact Mata was clearly better than Herrera last year, who struggled to justify even a sub role.
I stated Fellaini had contributed more than what Mata did during FA cup so I mentioned you some of Fellaini's contribution, but you gave me "red cafe ratings". How is that showing their contribution? So I asked you again in previous post to give me what Mata contributed and you asked me for ratings?
If you can't respond this then just admit it. Even someone on page 11 replied to you that Fellaini did contribute more than Mata in FA cup.
If it is in term of Importance and overall quality So why did Smalling isn't ahead of Mata? Why Rashford isn't ahead of Mata? Why Blind isn't ahead of Mata? Why Rooney isn't ahead of Mata? Why Valencia isn't ahead of Mata? Why Shaw isn't ahead of Mata? Why Carrick isn't ahead of Mata? These players have been more important for us than Mata. How can a player who has been dropped so many times is considered to be important for the team?
If you are talking about the past three years then why Carrick, Rooney, Valencia and Smalling aren't ahead of Mata? Those players have been very important for us in these last three years and Why Martial who only had one season with us is ahead of Mata?
I wonder what kind of excuses you are going to post.
So that means Mata isn't suit under Jose and LVG? May be he should go back to Koeman or Di Matteo or Benitez. Mata seems to work better with those managers. Is it so hard to accept that he's been average with us? The manager has been awful but so does the players.
Comparing Mata with Hazard is laughable mate.
True but that doesn't mean Mata was one of our best players when there are Smalling, Martial, De Gea, Blind, Rashford who had so much better overall performance than both Mata and Herrera.
My view exactly.
Basically, only sell Mata if we are going to replace him.
Ideal scenario: Bye Wayne, Hello James Rodriguez
Mata wouldn't be happy with a backup role though, which I think is what will spell the end for him here.
James would fit right in. Provides pace and goal threat as well. However Rooney for sure won't be content as a sub and seeing that Jose doesn't want him in midfield the #10 position(or most advanced midfielder in 4-3-3) is his only place in the team.
Mata is still in his best years tho, as he never relied that much on pace. I agree that he'll be looking at first team football.
Could we get a poll in this thread? Would be vaguely interesting to see the break down between those who want him in the first team, those who want him as a squad player and those who just want rid.
You really know how to sell your ideas.
Wrongly too. Oscar never proved Mourinho right on that front. (cue but, but he won the league comments).
Mourinho's the manager so there's only going to be one winner here. That said, any comments suggesting Mata is shit or average are way off and biased.
There's still a remote chance for him as he can be reliable free kick specialist.
Ibra right & Mata left footed.
Ibra right & Mata left footed.
Aye, a point that's often overlooked. Oscar has been worse than Mata pretty much ever since.
I think he'll stay.
Well you did you said that people shouldn't make assumptions yet you made assumptions that poster didn't watch Herrera play previously to joining United. Didn't think I would have needed to explain that. Also to put Rooney ahead of Mata is just crazy, whilst I'm not agreeing that Mata is the 3rd best player at the club he is definitely up there with the best players we have. He has had awful tactics to adhere to which has hampered his game and his teammates game. I would put him as the best player we have for the position he plays which is #10. Comparing him to others within the team isn't a fair comparison.
Also its a public forum, if you didn't want others joining in on the chat then maybe it should have been taken to private message.
Agreed. Oscar started looking good again under Hiddnick, but never really held up at the level Mata did. It's also fair to say Mata is offering as much on the defensive end as Oscar ever has.
If Mourinho were still at Chelsea, Oscar would get culled too. He was going to find someone to do the work he wanted. He'd have been on to the next until he got it sorted.
I really wonder if he'll give Mata the chance. Herrera is the closest to a #10 on the books. Mkhitaryan will be needed more wide than in the hole. Unless the right fit comes available, I suspect Mata just might get until January to prove himself.
I said you can't make A NOT TRUE statement or assumption.
And my assumption turned up to be true. He confirmed it and please be a little smart buddy the statement or assumption I just made is too obvious why would an United fans was watching Herrera from where he played at Zaragoza all the way to Atl Bilbao.
And also I ain't surprised with people who is a fans of Mata will say negative stuff about Rooney. And it's not me who make those unfair comparison from the start. Tell the original poster!
And when did I say you can't joined to my conversation? Please don't make such a lie statement again Mr "who jumped right to conclusions" I'm just telling you to read the whole discussion before jump to it.
If he is happy to sit on the bench. Isn't it that's what happened at Chelsea: Stays as a bench warmer or leaves to get more games.