Juan Mata

TheRisingSun said:
There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of United or anyone else buying Juan Mata. He is our best player who has won POTY twice in two seasons, during which he has been instrumental in winning us three trophies.

These rumours started in Real Madrid Spanish papers as a way of getting at Mourinho. They are nothing more. Any notion that he might end up at Old Trafford as part of the Rooney deal is absurdly fanciful. He's a better player than Rooney is now, for me. Never mind with 10 million quid thrown into the mix. Younger, more professional, more potential and more productivity.
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I agree on all your points, particularly the bolded ones. However, your club is run by a man who is used to getting what he wants and if he wants Rooney, and we demand Mata in any deal to be agreed, you get the feeling that it'll happen.

Abramovich would consider Rooney to be the ultimate signing in my opinion. Signing the highest profile player from the highest profile club in England; he'd see it as a huge triumph. Pretty much why City coveted Rooney so much back in 2010.

The question United need to ask Chelsea and Abramovich is what they want more: signing Rooney or keeping hold of Mata? Many Chelsea fans and many United fans know what the sensible answer to that is, but it is Abramovich we're talking about here.
 
Interesting point nahealai though I don't think Mourinho would agree to it at all, and I don't think Roman would want to piss Mourinho off so soon into his new spell in charge.
 
nahealai said:
I agree on all your points, particularly the bolded ones. However, your club is run by a man who is used to getting what he wants and if he wants Rooney, and we demand Mata in any deal to be agreed, you get the feeling that it'll happen.

Abramovich would consider Rooney to be the ultimate signing in my opinion. Signing the highest profile player from the highest profile club in England; he'd see it as a huge triumph. Pretty much why City coveted Rooney so much back in 2010.
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I really agree with this.

It would be a huge coup in the way you describe but it wouldn't make footballing sense IMO, so hopefully he does it!
 
nahealai said:
I agree on all your points, particularly the bolded ones. However, your club is run by a man who is used to getting what he wants and if he wants Rooney, and we demand Mata in any deal to be agreed, you get the feeling that it'll happen.

Abramovich would consider Rooney to be the ultimate signing in my opinion. Signing the highest profile player from the highest profile club in England; he'd see it as a huge triumph. Pretty much why City coveted Rooney so much back in 2010.

The question United need to ask Chelsea and Abramovich is what they want more: signing Rooney or keeping hold of Mata? Many Chelsea fans and many United fans know what the sensible answer to that is, but it is Abramovich we're talking about here.
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Abramovich is a bit sharper than you give him credit for. He's not just going to hand over a prized asset.

Mourinho has just come out and said there is "no chance, no chance" that Mata or Luiz are going anywhere and unlike United's protestations about Rooney's future, they sound convincing.
 
nahealai said:
I agree on all your points, particularly the bolded ones. However, your club is run by a man who is used to getting what he wants and if he wants Rooney, and we demand Mata in any deal to be agreed, you get the feeling that it'll happen.

Abramovich would consider Rooney to be the ultimate signing in my opinion. Signing the highest profile player from the highest profile club in England; he'd see it as a huge triumph. Pretty much why City coveted Rooney so much back in 2010.

The question United need to ask Chelsea and Abramovich is what they want more: signing Rooney or keeping hold of Mata? Many Chelsea fans and many United fans know what the sensible answer to that is, but it is Abramovich we're talking about here.
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When did Chelsea ever gave up their key player, and in this case, their best player for the past two seasons, to get another one?

I think you're underestimating Abramovich here. He is prone to swap managers more often than needed, but he is much more patient when it comes to players. Mata has been a revelation at Chelsea, he's probably one of the most likable players in the club, happy at CFC and is the biggest reason for whatever success we've had recently. No chance in hell of him going anywhere, whether Rooney comes or not.
 
TheRisingSun said:
There is absolutely no chance whatsoever of United or anyone else buying Juan Mata. He is our best player who has won POTY twice in two seasons, during which he has been instrumental in winning us three trophies.

These rumours started in Real Madrid Spanish papers as a way of getting at Mourinho. They are nothing more. Any notion that he might end up at Old Trafford as part of the Rooney deal is absurdly fanciful. He's a better player than Rooney is now, for me. Never mind with 10 million quid thrown into the mix. Younger, more professional, more potential and more productivity.
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I think this is the most important part of this whole idea. Last season Mata was superior to Rooney and hes younger and fitter and theres no reason to suspect Mata would not be better than Rooney again next season. My only thought might be that we are rich in players of Matas area but not in Rooneys, but even so, its not a good idea to sell your best player to buy in another, its not really strengthening the team.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
I think this is the most important part of this whole idea. Last season Mata was superior to Rooney and hes younger and fitter and theres no reason to suspect Mata would not be better than Rooney again next season. My only thought might be that we are rich in players of Matas area but not in Rooneys, but even so, its not a good idea to sell your best player to buy in another, its not really strengthening the team.
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You said yourself you need more a player like Rooney than Mata and you have players who can cover for Mata, you'd strengthen Chelsea overall if it were a straight exchange between the two IMHO. Ba and Torres are clearly below level to what's required at Chelsea
 
kouroux said:
You said yourself you need more a player like Rooney than Mata and you have players who can cover for Mata, you'd strengthen Chelsea overall if it were a straight exchange between the two IMHO. Ba and Torres are clearly below level to what's required at Chelsea
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Yeah but its not a direct strengthen and it wouldn't be by much. Schrulle is not proven in the EPL like Mata is. Mata is the very player we want feeding Rooney.
 
We should put a silly little bid in for Mata if Chelsea are seriously thinking £20m for Rooney is reasonable.
 
Rooney is an England NT icon, CL (twice runner-ups) and PL (numerous times) winners. While Mata is just another Spanish good midfielder, with one world class season. I can see why club owner would prefer Rooney. Another thing: a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
 
Isotope said:
Rooney is an England NT icon, CL (twice runner-ups) and PL (numerous times) winners. While Mata is just another Spanish good midfielder, with one world class season. I can see why club owner would prefer Rooney. Another thing: a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
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thats quite funny!
 
Isotope said:
Rooney is an England NT icon, CL (twice runner-ups) and PL (numerous times) winners. While Mata is just another Spanish good midfielder, with one world class season. I can see why club owner would prefer Rooney. Another thing: a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
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The fact that he's "just another Spanish good midfielder" has more to do with how strong Spain are at the moment rather than any deficiencies on Mata's part.
 
Isotope said:
Rooney is an England NT icon, CL (twice runner-ups) and PL (numerous times) winners. While Mata is just another Spanish good midfielder, with one world class season. I can see why club owner would prefer Rooney. Another thing: a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
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Hilarious post. And the meaningless caveat in bold just to hammer home your point.
I would say that Chelsea need Rooney more then United need Mata.
 
Isotope said:
Rooney is an England NT icon, CL (twice runner-ups) and PL (numerous times) winners. While Mata is just another Spanish good midfielder, with one world class season. I can see why club owner would prefer Rooney. Another thing: a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
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And yet despite all that Mata presents as a superior player (currently) with more upside to the neutrals.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
And yet despite all that Mata presents as a superior player (currently) with more upside to the neutrals.
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Of course. I'm just reasoning why a club owner might see Rooney has stronger pull than Mata. The same reason why some owners think Boswinga still have career in top football, and Beckham would be a better DM than one-yard-pass Makelele. Prestige. That's also one of the reason why United are willing to pay his 250k/week wages. He's a world class player, and one of the most recognizable name in footballing and non-footballing worlds. Mata is still way behind Rooney on this aspect.
 
I think we'll make a couple of mouthwatering signings and then permit him to go as that way the club looks like it is dealing from a position of strength.
 
Isotope said:
Rooney is an England NT icon, CL (twice runner-ups) and PL (numerous times) winners. While Mata is just another Spanish good midfielder, with one world class season. I can see why club owner would prefer Rooney. Another thing: a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
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Agreed. IMO Rooney's ceiling is so much higher than Mata's, but the latter is far more consistent where Rooney often fluctuates between crap and excellent.
 
'So much higher.'

Well that's an overstatement if there ever was one.
 
Irwynwastheking said:
I think it was a reasonable enough post. Rooney is certainly more of a Galactico type player that would be a little trophy for Roman.
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Exactly. People can read on this thread to see how high I rate Mata (and I do approve a straight swap with Rooney). But club owner sometimes has different idea than football neutral. Torres was wank for almost 2 years at Liverpool but Roman still spunked 50m to get him; mostly because his name is Fernando Torres, world cup and european championship winning striker. And Rooney's name is a bit (if not more) as recognizable as Torres in the world.

Agreed with the Galactico term. When you look at Chelsea's team, who's their most recognizable icon now? Not many a fan of Torres now, Lampard is too old (and so is John Terry), Mata is pretty new to the scene, etc. Rooney is way more galactico than Mata. And when an owner appointed a (caretaker) manager despite the protest of fans, you just know Roman doesn't give hoot of what the fans want/say.
 
Irwynwastheking said:
I think it was a reasonable enough post. Rooney is certainly more of a Galactico type player that would be a little trophy for Roman.
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It's nonsense, man. Absolute nonsense. Let's take a look at what Iso has said again:

Isotope said:
Rooney is an England NT icon, CL (twice runner-ups) and PL (numerous times) winners. While Mata is just another Spanish good midfielder, with one world class season. I can see why club owner would prefer Rooney. Another thing: a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
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Firstly, that opening statement is priceless. "An England NT icon" - laughable. The same England who have won what exactly in the last forty years? Not to mention Rooney himself flopping at every major tournament since 2004. Mata has won European Championships with Spain at u19, u21 and Senior level, as well as a World Cup. He was Player of the Tournament for his country's u21 success. For his club, he played a major role in winning their first Champions League title, as well as the Europa League. He was Man of the Match in the FA Cup Final in 2012. He is a big game player, plain and simple. It's staggering the level of belittlement emanating from Iso's post.

I am actually still of the opinion that Iso's tongue was firmly in his cheek when writing it. If not, his tongue is firmly in Rooney's arsecheek, and there's no hope for him anymore.
 
Rooney is England NT icon. What does England being trophy-less have to do with that statement?

And Rooney is way more famous than Mata. It is a fact, not "his tongue is firmly in Rooney's arsecheek" like you said.
 
nahealai said:
It's nonsense, man. Absolute nonsense. Let's take a look at what Iso has said again:



Firstly, that opening statement is priceless. "An England NT icon" - laughable. The same England who have won what exactly in the last forty years? Not to mention Rooney himself flopping at every major tournament since 2004. Mata has won European Championships with Spain at u19, u21 and Senior level, as well as a World Cup. He was Player of the Tournament for his country's u21 success. For his club, he played a major role in winning their first Champions League title, as well as the Europa League. He was Man of the Match in the FA Cup Final in 2012. He is a big game player, plain and simple. It's staggering the level of belittlement emanating from Iso's post.

I am actually still of the opinion that Iso's tongue was firmly in his cheek when writing it. If not, his tongue is firmly in Rooney's arsecheek, and there's no hope for him anymore.
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You don't seem to grasp what either Isotope or I am saying dude. We both feel that Mata and Rooney are very evenly matched in terms of overall player rating and that in all likelyhood Mata would suit us better. I know his last line may be throwing you a bit but in fairness it's not completely wrong either given how good a motivated Rooney can be. Mata isn't even a first choice player for Spain so he's hardly an 'icon' whereas success or not Rooney is seen as the main man for England and has been for years. He's a higher profile player if not a better player.
 
nahealai said:
It's nonsense, man. Absolute nonsense. Let's take a look at what Iso has said again:

Firstly, that opening statement is priceless. "An England NT icon" - laughable. The same England who have won what exactly in the last forty years? Not to mention Rooney himself flopping at every major tournament since 2004. Mata has won European Championships with Spain at u19, u21 and Senior level, as well as a World Cup. He was Player of the Tournament for his country's u21 success. For his club, he played a major role in winning their first Champions League title, as well as the Europa League. He was Man of the Match in the FA Cup Final in 2012. He is a big game player, plain and simple. It's staggering the level of belittlement emanating from Iso's post.

I am actually still of the opinion that Iso's tongue was firmly in his cheek when writing it. If not, his tongue is firmly in Rooney's arsecheek, and there's no hope for him anymore.
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It's not nonsense though. Rooney has a much higher profile than Mata, despite Mata being better last season. And Mata has barely played in major championships so I am not sure what the point was in including his Spanish honours.
 
Rooney hasn't been motivated for three years, gents. I think it's very presumptuous to accept that he'll suddenly turn it on again. If anything, his physical profile would prevent him for doing so and he has certainly lost that "explosiveness" that made him such a terrorising figure for defences. You can't simply regain this by "motivating" yourself again.

My take on the issue is I'd gladly do a straight swap with Rooney for Mata. Rooney's best days are behind him I think, and combine his fitness issues and attitude problems, he's not such an asset anymore. Mata is the best playmaker in the league and he'd bring our game on to the next level alongside Kagawa. The rumoured "Mata plus cash" deal would be an absolute steal. I doubt Abramovich is that stupid but then again, this is the man who's spent £80 million on Torres and Shevchenko against his manager's wishes.
 
Irwynwastheking said:
You don't seem to grasp what either Isotope or I am saying dude. We both feel that Mata and Rooney are very evenly matched in terms of overall player rating and that in all likelyhood Mata would suit us better. I know his last line may be throwing you a bit but in fairness it's not completely wrong either given how good a motivated Rooney can be. Mata isn't even a first choice player for Spain so he's hardly an 'icon' whereas success or not Rooney is seen as the main man for England and has been for years. He's a higher profile player if not a better player.
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Accept he did not state that.

a motivated Rooney is better than Mata.
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Without any basis, he also appears to imply that clubs sell and buy players on the basis that they are more or less recognizable in Asia, U.S. etc.
 
psychdelicblues said:
Accept he did not state that.



Without any basis, he also appears to imply that clubs sell and buy players on the basis that they are more or less recognizable in Asia, U.S. etc.
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You know if you actually read a few more of the comments before jumping in you could come across as more informed on the matter.

Where in Gods green earth did you get the last line from? Read this from Isotope and it explains what he means.

Isotope said:
Exactly. People can read on this thread to see how high I rate Mata (and I do approve a straight swap with Rooney). But club owner sometimes has different idea than football neutral. Torres was wank for almost 2 years at Liverpool but Roman still spunked 50m to get him; mostly because his name is Fernando Torres, world cup and european championship winning striker. And Rooney's name is a bit (if not more) as recognizable as Torres in the world.

Agreed with the Galactico term. When you look at Chelsea's team, who's their most recognizable icon now? Not many a fan of Torres now, Lampard is too old (and so is John Terry), Mata is pretty new to the scene, etc. Rooney is way more galactico than Mata. And when an owner appointed a (caretaker) manager despite the protest of fans, you just know Roman doesn't give hoot of what the fans want/say.
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I can't believe I'm arguing about what someone else meant when it's perfectly clear what they meant.
 
Isotope said:
Rooney is England NT icon. What does England being trophy-less have to do with that statement?

And Rooney is way more famous than Mata. It is a fact, not "his tongue is firmly in Rooney's arsecheek" like you said.
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From a marketing and shirt sale value there is no doubt that Rooney is the much more valuable player which of course is the main reason why should get an additional amout of money in such a trade.
 
Who do you guys think is better currently. Fabregas or Mata?
 
Based on what we've seen over the last two seasons and nothing more it's a no-brainer: Mata > Rooney.

But if you go back further in time Rooney showed the world some pretty insane stuff, which I think he's capable of pulling out again. CAPABLE, but it's far from a sure thing we'll ever see the Rooney of old ever again. His lack of commitment to conditioning will conspire against him now that he's in the upper half of his 20s. And who's to say he'll find life all that much more bearable at Chelsea. Maybe it will be, but maybe not.

If Chelsea are serious about Rooney and we're entertaining the idea of a deal, I say demand Mata as part of the deal. If Jose says no, then he can fukk off or pay the same 50m they paid Torres.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Who do you guys think is better currently. Fabregas or Mata?
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Mata will run away with this but it's still Fabregas for me. Playing regularly in the midfield there isn't many better players than him. Mata's more skilful but I'd take Cesc out of the two if I were building a team.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Who do you guys think is better currently. Fabregas or Mata?
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Put each in their best position in a team suited to them, it's Fabregas.

At Chelsea and Barca as they are now, it's Mata.

That said, in the first situation I don't think they're easy to compare, because they play different positions. Fabregas, for me, was obviously at his best when Arsenal played him in the CM '2' of a 4231, whereas obviously Mata plays in the AM '3'.
 
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