[Eric'sCollar]

It wouldn't have told us anything we didn't already know.
Nobody denies that he can pick a great pass or score goals.

That's not the issue people have.

We know everything we will ever know about Mata, we have been watching him for a few seasons now. A few weeks ago, everyone accepted his limitations as a player but now, those limitations are unforgivable for some reason.

He was getting high praise at the end of last season and the early part of this season, nothing has changed in his performance (maybe below par but not in a general sense) but now the slightest fault, or another players strength is used a stick to beat him with.

 

[Speak]

We know everything we will ever know about Mata, we have been watching him for a few seasons now. A few weeks ago, everyone accepted his limitations as a player but now, those limitations are unforgivable for some reason.

He was getting high praise at the end of last season and the early part of this season, nothing has changed in his performance (maybe below par but not in a general sense) but now the slightest fault, or another players strength is used a stick to beat him with.

I wouldn't say that the limitations have suddenly become unforgivable. I'd say the limitations have only become apparent to many.
I'd say most people didn't know what sort of player he was. People just saw his goals and assists at Chelsea, and genuinely assumed he was Silva + goals.

Only in the past few weeks have many started to realise that he's pretty much a second striker.
He's possibly getting too much criticism, I agree. After all it's not his fault that people thought he was capable of things he isn't capable of.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

I wouldn't say that the limitations have suddenly become unforgivable. I'd say the limitations have only become apparent to many.
I'd say most people didn't know what sort of player he was. People just saw his goals and assists at Chelsea, and genuinely assumed he was Silva + goals.

Only in the past few weeks have many started to realise that he's pretty much a second striker.
He's possibly getting too much criticism, I agree. After all it's not his fault that people thought he was capable of things he isn't capable of.

I guess, maybe it's true that many didn't actually watch him over his time at Chelsea and only saw him on the weekly highlights show but every player, especially a lot of those number 10s have their weaknesses. It's why a squad is so important, you need players who offer different things and Mata gives us a great option.

 

[footballgirl07]

Had a better game today and showed more strength on the ball. That chance he had from the FK was poor.

 

[Borys]

I wouldn't say that the limitations have suddenly become unforgivable. I'd say the limitations have only become apparent to many.
I'd say most people didn't know what sort of player he was. People just saw his goals and assists at Chelsea, and genuinely assumed he was Silva + goals.
Only in the past few weeks have many started to realise that he's pretty much a second striker.
He's possibly getting too much criticism, I agree. After all it's not his fault that people thought he was capable of things he isn't capable of.

Agreed. Plus, some people have realized that we simply have other players who can do his job better, whether it's scoring goals or just contributing to general play, so he's not so important for us as he was considered at the beginning of the season.

 

[saivet]

 

[Mad Winger]

If Angel scored from the fantastic chance Mata created for him near the start he'd be perceived differently.

That's the clue though, isn't it? The moment these passes and finishes don't come off, Mata becomes an incredibly limited player, who's only really good at keeping possession in the team(which is an important skill, mind you) and set pieces.

This was easy to see, even under Moyes. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw how efficient he was. At times, it was as if he stopped time, strolled into position, and tapped the ball into the net. Being in the right place at the right time is a skill in itself, so that is obviously something we should praise Mata for. The thing is, this skillset comes in waves. And when it's gone, it sometimes takes a long time for it to return. And unlike strikers like Rooney and Aguero, Mata doesn't have those extreme individual qualities that decide games, even when the ball isn't rolling his way.

I always knew that this place would turn on Mata the moment the ball isn't rolling his way. It's easy to be "fooled" by a player who often puts his mark on the goal/assist protocol. Hell, I was also fooled to a certain degree. I sure as hell expected a lot more from Mata, even when he's not assisting and scoring goals consistently. The worst part is that there aren't any excuses for him not performing. He's not old, he's playing in his best position consistently, uninterrupted by injuries, supported by a good central midfield, in the same league as always.

 

[Acole9]

Better today than in the West Brom game. Not at his best by any means but did a good job in the midfield.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

People are right about many not knowing what kind of player he really was and are only now seeing his limitations hamper our progress. In an ideal world, I would love it if we managed to get our hands on Sterling. Extreme pace, ability to run and cause a defence problems, can pick a pass, and has a penchant for goal scoring.

 

[SirAF]

That's the clue though, isn't it? The moment these passes and finishes don't come off, Mata becomes an incredibly limited player, who's only really good at keeping possession in the team(which is an important skill, mind you) and set pieces.

This was easy to see, even under Moyes. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw how efficient he was. At times, it was as if he stopped time, strolled into position, and tapped the ball into the net. Being in the right place at the right time is a skill in itself, so that is obviously something we should praise Mata for. The thing is, this skillset comes in waves. And when it's gone, it sometimes takes a long time for it to return. And unlike strikers like Rooney and Aguero, Mata doesn't have those extreme individual qualities that decide games, even when the ball isn't rolling his way.

I always knew that this place would turn on Mata the moment the ball isn't rolling his way. It's easy to be "fooled" by a player who often puts his mark on the goal/assist protocol. Hell, I was also fooled to a certain degree. I sure as hell expected a lot more from Mata, even when he's not assisting and scoring goals consistently. The worst part is that there aren't any excuses for him not performing. He's not old, he's playing in his best position consistently, uninterrupted by injuries, supported by a good central midfield, in the same league as always.

Good assesment.

 

[ottosec]

He wasn't bad, but not good enough to keep his place once Rooney is back, imo.

 

[Gannicus]

I expected better performances from Mata in Rooney's absence, but he's been far from poor. He's still a very solid option for us. Let us not judge too harshly simply because he hasn't been amazing.

 

[m1y2]

I wouldn't mind to bench him and play Fellaini instead. I also hope Herrera starts next match.

 

[Man of Leisure]

I wouldn't mind to bench him and play Fellaini instead.

Several weeks ago, you would have been laughed right outta here. How quickly opinions change.

 

[Freak]

I thought he was good. In fact there was a huge gap between our midfield and attack once he went off. Chelsea we always getting the second balls once they defended our attacks when he went off.

 

[BigDunc9]

That first time pass to Di Maria was

 

[CuCullhan]

He is not playing his natural game as he played for us up to now. If you look at last season or early this... He chased in everything and get a shot off or score which was(for me) taking up the space of a striker who would hang out as not to crowd the same position. It is a different game than we are used to seeing form Mata that he is now being asked to play. Was good today, largely missing against WBA and i though very understated against Everton but good.

His ball for Di Maria's goal against Everton i think was so simple and brilliant that most missed it, its like that is too easy to give any credit for. But fact is a few inches off in any direction or short or long and its was blocked or cleared. Hamez did a similarly simple ball for Ronaldos goal the other night and people are raving about it but because Mata's was not as flashy ? Put the ball on a sixpence where your man can hit before the defender can get there... Just class.
Its not his normal game so he's not perfected it and the simple efficiency of it looks ordinary. Thing is, maybe Rooney can do this role better, more flash and high impact passing but will the team benefit more from it? If Rooney can punish the defences himself it will look like it did. But who's to say Rooney scoring a few goals looking better is actually masking the loss to the team this role IF played right can give. Its not always about the assist and the scorer, many times the killer ball is the one before the assist. Look at many goals this weekend. Even ours kinda... The cross was the bit of magic picked out a free header.

Anyhow that's how i asses him, not breaking into the box anymore.

 

[Americano]

I'm just not feeling that sense of magical danger from him that you would expect from such a talented player.

 

[Jippy]

That first time pass to Di Maria was

It was brilliant, but he hasn't really stepped up in Rooney's absence like most of us had hoped he would. Not exactly sure why he isn't working out given he is so talented. Just a shame he looks like a passenger too often.

 

[Sam]

That first time pass to Di Maria was

Indeed. Its that kind of thing I want, and expect, to be seeing from him on a regular basis.

I think that the first 'special' thing he's done this season.

 

[caisenma]

Anyone else starting to think LVG now considers Januzaj ahead of Mata in the pecking order?

 

[kundalini]

The problem for Mata is that we look more likely to score when he isn't on the pitch.

856 mins total. Mata playing 603 mins 9 goals from 83 attempts (conceded 9). Missing 259 mins 7 goals from 46 attempts (conceded 4).

Given his strengths and weaknesses, Mata needs the team to be more likely to score when he is playing.

On 2nd viewing of the Chelsea match, Mata seemed to work hard off the ball, though his one magical moment didn't look so good, the idea was brilliant but he could have kept the pass along the ground, making the finish so much easier for Di Maria than having to attempt a difficult volley. The other thing I noticed was the number of times he chose a very simple pass rather than a slightly more difficult one that would have improved our chances of launching an attack.

At some stage I think we have to take a serious look at other options for the role. If they don't impress then give Mata another spell in the side.

 

[iBoss]

He did okay. Should be dropped for Rooney for the City game though.

 

[Ace of Spades]

He was fine, but not enough to keep Rooney out imo.

 

[Borys]

He is not playing his natural game as he played for us up to now. If you look at last season or early this... He chased in everything and get a shot off or score which was(for me) taking up the space of a striker who would hang out as not to crowd the same position. It is a different game than we are used to seeing form Mata that he is now being asked to play. Was good today, largely missing against WBA and i though very understated against Everton but good.

His ball for Di Maria's goal against Everton i think was so simple and brilliant that most missed it, its like that is too easy to give any credit for. But fact is a few inches off in any direction or short or long and its was blocked or cleared. Hamez did a similarly simple ball for Ronaldos goal the other night and people are raving about it but because Mata's was not as flashy ? Put the ball on a sixpence where your man can hit before the defender can get there... Just class.

Its not his normal game so he's not perfected it and the simple efficiency of it looks ordinary. Thing is, maybe Rooney can do this role better, more flash and high impact passing but will the team benefit more from it? If Rooney can punish the defences himself it will look like it did.

I’m sure the team will benefit from Rooney playing Mata role. You make it sound like he does so many good things that we can’t see. He’s not. He’s doing all the simple stuff- keeping possession, spreading it wide and running into the box (something Rooney was accused of not long ago).

But who's to say Rooney scoring a few goals looking better is actually masking the loss to the team this role IF played right can give. Its not always about the assist and the scorer, many times the killer ball is the one before the assist. Look at many goals this weekend. Even ours kinda... The cross was the bit of magic picked out a free header.

Anyhow that's how i asses him, not breaking into the box anymore.

Not sure what role you’re talking about, but Mata has not been a creative force for us. I don’t see a reason why he should play next week to be honest.

Anyone else starting to think LVG now considers Januzaj ahead of Mata in the pecking order?

I hope so. Offers more, and we are not blessed with wide players so I think he can get more minutes from now on, at the expense of Mata.

 

[2mufc0]

Herrera would have been a better option than him yesterday. Had a better game but still not enough imo.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I thought he was better yesterday than in the last couple of games. He wasn't great, or even good, but that's unsurprising given how good Chelsea were defensively. Aside from that skyed shot he didn't do anything noticeably bad. Wish he could put in that kind of work rate in every game though.

At the moment there's nothing that argues for his inclusion over Herrera or Rooney.

 

[Roboc7]

If he doesn't score or set up a goal his contribution just isn't good enough and there is a lot of competition for his favourite position, personally I would like to see Januzaj or Herrera given some games there ahead of Mata. What he did at Chelsea shows he has talent but I would swap him for a good winger or another attacking player who can add some more pace and is a bit more dynamic.

 

[freshibal]

He wasnt bad, played quite well if anything and if we were to continue with him i feel he would perform better as the season goes on. if Falcao stays injured he will get another game, otherwise Rooney is back in.

 

[MancFanFromManc]

I'm surprised at the stick he's getting for yesterday, I thought he did okay. Nothing special, but hardly worthy of the abuse. Its not easy in that midfield against the Prem's best side

 

[Escobar]

He lacks the final ball imo. I havent seen him creating too many chances or through balls unfortunately

 

[IwatUwat]

Think currently opposition would be more worried about us having Rooney on the team sheet than Mata. I was really hoping Mata would take his chance and dominate both games, unfortunately he hasn't shown that at all, some nice touches etc but not the impact you'd want from your no10.

Rooney would have been great in an end to end game like yesterday.

 

[saivet]

Surely Herrera in for Mata would make more sense. Not sure I'd like to see Rooney played so deep against City if we use this same formation.

 

[Adnan]

 

[m1y2]

Several weeks ago, you would have been laughed right outta here. How quickly opinions change.

you're right but it's just like that, things in football change quickly. I wouldn't mind experimenting with fellaini as CAM last season either as one of few people here. doesn't mean I rate this guy as manunited quality. hes got a lot to prove himself and maybe show that he is not as bad as what other people thought and can do a job for us. I mean having a squad player like Fellaini is always a good thing.

 

[NessunDorma]

I wonder if Mata knowing he isn't a nailed on starter when everyone is fit is affecting his form?

It must be disheartening to have been told you're surplus to requirements by one big club, only to arrive at another and be considered a back-up as well.

I personally think he's much too talented to be a squad player, and is far better than his recent performances suggest, but is there a place for him here?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I wonder if Mata knowing he isn't a nailed on starter when everyone is fit is affecting his form?

It must be disheartening to have been told you're surplus to requirements by one big club, only to arrive at another and be considered a back-up as well.

I personally think he's much too talented to be a squad player, and is far better than his recent performances suggest, but is there a place for him here?

He's been a nailed on starter for most of this season hasn't he?

 

[NessunDorma]

He's been a nailed on starter for most of this season hasn't he?

But only because Falcao has been lacking match fitness/injured and Rooney has been suspended. When those two are available for selection, then i'm not sure he is - hence 'when everyone is fit'.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

But only because Falcao has been lacking match fitness/injured and Rooney has been suspended. When those two are available for selection, then i'm not sure he is - hence 'when everyone is fit'.

Either way, he's getting chances. Can't really ask for more. If he was playing brilliantly he'd be first choice.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He lacks the final ball imo. I havent seen him creating too many chances or through balls unfortunately

The weird thing is, at Chelsea it seemed like he could pick a run or pass out of thin air, now he is playing with the blinkers on. What's changed?, I don't think Chelsea's movement is THAT much better than ours, so perhaps he has just lost form?.

Any regular Chelsea watchers over the last few years, what were his assists generally from. Crossing/freekicks?, or defence splitting passes etc.